Page 1

CLERK’S

OFFICE

AVG

.2.4

2009

STATE

IUJNOi

Pofltio

Control

R08-9

(Rulemaking

Water)

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS

the

hearing

of the above-entitled

cause

before Hearing

Officer Marie Tipsord, taken before Rebecca A.

Graziano, Certified Shorthand Reporter

within

and

for the County

of Cook and

State

of Illinois,

at 160

North LaSalle Street, Room N-505, Chicago, Illinois,

commencing at the hour of 1:00

p.m. on the 13th

day

of August,

A.D., 2009.

ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD

May 20, 2009

THE MATTER OF:

WATER QUALITY

STANDARDS AND

EFFLUENT LIMITATIONS FOR THE

CHICAGO AREA WATERWAY SYSTEM AND

THE LOWER DES

PLAINES RIVER:

PROPOSED AI4ENDMENTS TO

Ill.

Adm.

Code

Parts 301, 302, 303

and 304

Page 2

APPEARANCES

THE ILLINOIS

POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD,

Ms.

Marie Tipsord, Hearing Officer

Mr. Anand Rao, Senior

Environmental Scientist

Mr. G. Tanner

Girard, Acting Chairman

Ms. Andrea

Moore, Member

Mr. Gary Blankenship, Member

Mr. Thomas Johnson,

Member

Dr. Shundar

Lin, Member

ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL

PROTECTION AGENCY

1021 North Grand Avenue East

Post Office Box

19276

Springfield, Illinois 62794

BY:

MS. STEFANIE DIERS

MS.

DEBORAH WILLIAMS

ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AND POLICY

CENTER

East Wacker

Drive

Suite 1300

Chicago, Illinois

60601

(312)

795-3707

BY: MS.

JESSICA DEXTER

‘5

Appeared

on behalf of ELPC, Prairie

Rivers

Network, and Sierra

Club,

BARNES AND

THORNBURG LLP

North Wacker Drive

Suite 4400

‘9

Chicago,

IL 60606

(312) 357-1313

BY:

MR.

FREDRIC ANDES

Appeared on behalf

of the Metropolitan Water

Reclamation

District of Greater Chicago,

Page

APPEARANCES

THE

CHICAGO

LEGAL

CLINIC

2938

East

91st

Street

Chicago,

Illinois

60617

(773)

731-1762

BY:

MR.

KEITH

HARLEY

Appeared

behalf

the

Southeast

Environmental

Task

Force,

HODGE

DWYER

DRIVER

3150

Roland

Avenue

Post

Office

Box

5776

Springfield, Illinois

62705-5776

(217)

523-4900

BY:

MS.

KATHERINE

HODGE

MS.

MONICA

RIOS

MAYER,

BROWN,

LLP

South

Wacker

Drive

Chicago,

Illinois

60606

BY:

MR.

THOMAS

W. DIMOND

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Page

pipe is about

1,500 feet from the effluent

tank

the river.

MS. DEXTER:

Okay.

Do you

know how

many people

regularly work

the

Millsdale

plant?

MS. GARIBAY:

1,500.

MS. DEXTER:

All right.

MR.

DIMOND: No, no, that’s worldwide.

MS.

GARIBAY:

Oh, worldwide.

I’m

sorry.

400 people, of which 230 are

union

members.

Sorry.

MS.

DEXTER: Does Stepan currently

discharge

nitrogen and phosphorus

into

the

Des Plaines River?

MR. DIMOND:

I’m going

object to

that,

and it’s also beyond the scope

the

testimony. We were dealing

with

disinfection

and temperature

and oxygen -- dissolved

oxygen.

MS. TIPSORD:

I’m going to

sustain

that objection.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

want -- wasn’t

he--

MS. DEXTER:

remember testimony

this

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Page 52

spoke

Mr. Calvalo, and he indicated

that

he would

willing

switch to

October 5th,

where right now we only

have

Gerry

Ingelman

(phonetic) and Laura

Bernhousen (phonetic)

prepared

testify as a

panel. If it would

make things more

convenient for Ms. Dexter’s

witness, we would

willing

shift

Mr. Calvalo

October 5th.

MS. TIPSORD:

If the census

is that

it’s going

take all day

with

Mr.

Thomas, I

would -- that’s fine with

us.

just

-- I

feel

bad, because

we’ve already

put

him off

once.

MR. HARLEY:

You know, he’s completely

available

the Board. He lives

locally,

he doesn’t have the

same traveling

concerns

that other people have.

MS. TIPSORD: All right. Well, then

we will begin tomorrow morning with Dr.

David

Thomas. And with that, we’re adjourned, and

we’re

9031 tomorrow. Thank

you.

AND

FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NAUGHT...

Page 53

STATE OF

ILLINOIS

COUNTY

OF COOK

REBECCA

A. GRAZIANO,

being

first

duly

sworn

on oath

says

that she is

court

reporter

doing

business in the

City of Chicago;

that

she

reported

in shorthand

the

proceedings

given at the

taking of said

hearing

and that the

foregoing

true and correct

transcript

of her

shorthand

notes

taken

aforesaid

and contains

all

the

proceedings given

said hearing.

)2AA

REBECCA

A. GZIANO,

CSR

29 South LaSalle

Street,

Suite 850

Chicago, Illinois

60603

License

No.

084-004659

SUBSCRIBED

AND SWORN TO

before

me this

day

, A.D.,

2009.

Notary

Public

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51:11,16 52:21

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5:5,16 7:14

7:22,22 9:12

9:22 14:18

24:24 26:1

37:5

46:10,24

47:1

theirs 47:5

themselves

43:12

theoretically

13:17

thereto

29:19

thing 35:5

things 12:4 40:7

50:18 52:6

think 4:1,6 5:15

7:24 9:2,6,9,15

9:21 12:2

14:24 15:7

22:7 23:1

26:24 28:10

34:18 35:1

44:2 50:3

Thomas 2:6

3:13 52:10,20

THORNBURG

2:17

though 9:12

1:23

thought

9:19

14:22

threat 31:3

three 15:3,3

20:20 22:22,24

22:24 23:5,9

23:13,23 24:21

39:14,20 40:3

41:442:3 44:7

46:21 47:3

49:23

through

7:22

18:12 20:9

22:10,13 24:21

26: 8, 18, 19

27:12 35:6

49:20,23

throughout

47:24 49:18

time

11:13 16:15

18:12

22:14

23:13 38:21

41:1 51:24

times 18:13

Tipsord 1:10

2:3

4:1 5:9 6:7

8:20 9:2,5,7,23

11:18,23 14:24

15: 13,15,18

17:1,4,7 19:21

21:20,24

22:2

22:5 24:3,13

24:18 32:15

37:7,14,20

38:17,24 50:3

50:8 51:12,16

52:9,18

today 15:10 16:5

17:15

tomorrow 51:17

51:24 52:19,21

top 45:3

total 15:8

touches 42:4,4

tow 22:23 23:6

23:22 26:2

42:2 1

toward 40:2

towboat25:22

26:4 43:14,18

Towboats 41:13

tower 13:18,23

14:6

towers 12:6,7,13

12:15 13:1,3,8

13:10,13

Towing 24:23

tows 24:24 43:1

traffic 18:21

21:17 25:20

26:3,10,11,12

43:11,13 45:10

45:11

trafficked 18:8

tragic 25:14

train 42:24

transcript 53:10

Transfer 39:14

transferring

11:7,10

transit 20:8

transiting 42:20

transmission

29:16

transportation

30: 14,19

travel 14:10,10

traveled 41:3

traveling 51:23

52:16

treated 12:24

treatment 6:16

7:15,23 10:9

11:2 12:20,24

13:18 14:6

trees

47:13

trespassers 30:5

true 53:10

try 5:7

trying 6:20

Tuesday 40:3

tug 18:8 23:9

24:1 25:5,12

27:12 39:22

40:9,10,17

47:21

tugs 18:15 23:18

40:8,14 48:8

TWIC

0:20

31:1,11,24

two 6:23 7:6

20:14 23:10,15

23:21 38:16

39:20 40:14

41:19 42:10

45:9 46:6,14

46:19,20 48:5

type 12:11 20:19

35:4

types 10:19

50:18

T-W-I-C 3 0:20

UAA

28:5

unannounced

31:15

unaware 43:22

under 29:20

30:14 34:19

understand

11:19 36:22

understanding

32:18 33:13

underway

25:13

unescorted

30:16

union 8:10

unique 36:17

unloaded 41:24

unnecessary

25:6

unquote 28:15

36:7

unwanted 25:6

25:17

upper 16:11

17:18 22:9

28:2,21 30:5

32:10 33:8

35:18 39:7

40:9 41:11

47:16 49:3

upstream 7:1,4

20:5 27:3,4

43:3 46:13

usage 46:18,24

use4:13 12:5

16:9

17:17,24

18 :3, 17, 19

26:7 27:24

28 :2,7, 10, 13

28:24 29:10

32:8,12 33:2,6

33:14,15 34:12

34:17,19

39:15

39:19 41:3

45:17,24 46:3

46:6,22

49:22

51:8

used 4:20,22

11:1 38:10

45:21

user 21: 12

users 18:14,21

21:7 33:10

Page 64

41:9 45:19

47:20

uses 20:3,15,21

21:3,10 28:16

34:7,14 35:18

39:15

49:17

USGS 39:3

usually 41:21

U.S

30:10 31:14

44:16

variety

37:5

43:10 48:2

various 3 5:23

very 12:15 13:3

13:7 15:20

36:20 47:4

vessel 25:7,9,16

vessels4l:10

43:20

vicinity 4:14

view 36:17

violating

6:3

violation 31:20

visibility 43:10

W3:13

Wacker 2:12,18

3:12

wading 33:24

34:10,14

35:3

wait 5:23

wake 22:20

48:19

wakes 48:22

49:12

walkway 47:4

want 5:7,23 8:22

14:22 21:24

31:22 38:14

40:7,18 42:24

51:16

warning

31:20

wasn’t 8:22

wastewater 7:15

7:23 13:18,24

14:6

watching 28:19

water 1:4,5 2:21

4:20 6:4 12:12

12:15,16,16,19

13:12 16:14,20

23:3 24:9

28:11,14,15

33:18,20 35:3

36:23

watercraft

47:15

waters 13:2,16

13:20 43:6

45:24 46:3,6

46:22 51:8

waterway

1:5

36:6,24

38:9

38:12 47:13

waterways 36:8

36:16

wave 40: 10

way

4:17,17

30:7 43:3

weather

43:

website

24:22

week 46:20

weight 49:2

well 18:10 22:7

23:18 27:9

41:9 42:15

47:23 48:6

49:23 52:18

were 4:18 6:20

8:17

10:21

15:24 24:22

40:4 45:1,4

48:22

wet 13:5

wetland 10:9,17

11:2

wetlands 10:14

10:23 11:6,13

w&lI 14:24 15:2

15:15,20 17:2

17:8

19:21

22:8

50:8

we’re

4:1,16

15:9

52:20,21

we’ve 10:13

14:15,20 52:12

wharf

31: 10

47:2 49:5

while25:18

31:8

white

39:9

whole

40:12

wide 22:22

23:10,11,13,14

23:23 24:2

3 9:20 40:3,4,6

47:11,1248:5

width 3 8:3,4,7

willfully

30:1

WILLIAMS

2:10 8:22

9:4

9:11

willing 52:2,7

winter 13:21

witness 16:5

17:3 51:22

52:7

wondering 24:6

word 14:10

work 6:21 8:4

14:18

workers 30:19

working 13:2

15:9

works 22:7

world 42:14

worldwide

8:8,9

writing 15:12

yards 24:11,11

Yeah 9:23 37:10

year 36:1 42:5

years 15:4 29:24

36:5

zone 5:23 6:2,6

6:10

zones 49:1

084-004659

53:17

1st 30:24

1,00023:24

1,100 24:1

1,500 8:1,6

1:00 1:14

1021 2:8

108 38:11

109 38:11

11 41:6

110 47:10

12 44:1

120

13:14

44:2

13th 1:14

1300 2:13

14 45:15

15 47:7

150

23:14 24:2

16 47:7

160 1:12

1711:3

1848:12

18th 35:24 37:12

37:17

19276 2:9

2 24:7 45:15

2,400 42:5

201:248:23

200 23: 12

2001 49:19

2002 44:8

2003 44:8

2004 14:16

2005 14:16

2006 14:16

2008 3

0:23,24

35:24 37:12,18

2009 1:2,15

53:20

217 3 :9

230 8:10

25th 3 0:23

250 23:12

277.851:6

278

27:1

283

28:23

285 27:2

29 53:16

324:7 47:8

24:11

301 1:6

302 1:6

303 1:6

304 1:7

312 2:14,19

3150 3:8

323 15:4,5

324 17:9,10

325 22:10,11

24:8

38:24

326

38:19,20

33 2: 12

35 1:6

357-1313 2:19

400 8:10

4400 2:18

5 29:9 30:8

5th 52:2,8

5023:11 24:11

500 47:11

523-4900

3:9

55 23:11

5776 3:8

60601 2:13

60603 53:16

60606 2:19

3:13

60617 3:3

62705-5776

3:9

62794 2:9

700 41:20

713: 12

731-1762 3:4

773 3

795-3707 2:14

800

42:3

850 53:16

2938 3:3

12:18

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