ØRI.GINAL

Page

BEFORE

THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD

THE

MATTER OF:

ROVD

CLEFuc’

OWIOE

WATER QUALITY

STANDARDS AND

MAY

121309

EFFLUENT LIMITATIONS FOR

)

STATE

OFIWNOIS

Pollution

Control

Boaycj

THE CHICAGO AREA WATERWAY

SYSTEM AND THE LOWER

DES PLAINES RIVER:

)

No. R08-9

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS TO

)

Ill. Adm.

Code Parts

301, 302,

303

and 304

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS

had before the

ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD held on May

2009,

9:00 o’clock a.m.

the Thompson

Center,

Room-9-40, Chicago, Illinois.

Page 2

APPEARANCES:

ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD:

MS.

MARIE TIPSORD, Hearing Officer

MR.

THOMAS E. JOHNSON, Member

MR.

ANAND RAO, Senior Environmental Scientist

MR. LIN SHUNDAR

MS. ALISA LIU

ILLINOIS

ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY:

Ms.

Stefanie Diers

Ms.

Deborah Williams

Mr. Robert Sulski

ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AND POLICY CENTER

33 East Wacker Drive, Suite

1300

Chicago,

Illinois 60601

(312) 795-3707

BY:

MR. ALBERT ETTINGER and JESSICA DEXTER

Appeared on

behalf

of ELPC, Prairie

Rivers

Network and Sierra Club;

Page

APPEARANCE

CONTINUED:

BNES

THORNBURG

LLP

One

North

Wacker

Drive,

Suite

4400

Chicago,

Illinois

60606-2833

(312

357-1313

BY:

MR.

FREDERIC

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Page

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

The first

exhibit, United

States

Canoe Association

Competition Cruising Conservation Camping

Camaraderie Competition Events, USA

Sanctioning Guidelines, if there’s no

objection, we will mark that as Exhibit 260.

Seeing none, it is Exhibit

260.

And

the

second one is Chicago

Area Waterways Health Precautions. It’s

brochure. Publication

date

of 10/2003. If

there’s no objection, we will mark that

Exhibit 261.

Seeing none,

it is

Exhibit 261.

MS.

DEXTER:

have also two other

documents that Margaret referenced. I have,

“It’s Our River Day.” And we have

copy

of the Illinois Bureau of Tourism

Commission, which we will play in

just a

moment.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

If there’s

objection, we will mark the brochure,

“It’s Our River Day”

Exhibit 262. Seeing

none, it is Exhibit 262.

MR. ANDES:

Can

ask, is this

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Page 15

pictures, if that would

help.

MR. ANDES:

I’m

not

sure

that’s

necessary. What I’m

trying

to get to

is,

are there -- let’s

back

my original

question.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Let me

mark these exhibits first.

MR. ANDES:

Sure.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

First

exhibit that I’ve been

handed is “Boat

Launches Clark Park 1

River Park 47

direct from south

north.” If

there’s no

‘3

objection,

we will mark that

Exhibit 264.

Seeing none, it is Exhibit 264.

The second one

is Egress Points

CAWS, Testimony of Margaret Frisbie, if

there’s no objection, we will mark that

Exhibit 265. Seeing none, it is

Exhibit 265.

I’ve also been handed

CD Rom,

“CAWS Circle Tour Photos.” We’ll mark that

as Exhibit 266, if there’s no objection.

MS. DEXTER:

I also have printouts

of all the numbers.

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Page 19

because

I don’t think I ever

formally

admitted Exhibit 266, which

the

CD Rom.

I will admit that

Exhibit 266 seeing no

objections. The hard copies

of the photos I

will admit

266A, since

they are the same

photos on the

Rom,

if there’s no

objection.

Seeing none, that’s 266A.

Okay,

I’m now caught

on the exhibits. Go

ahead, Mr. Andes.

MR. ANDES:

Sure.

I’ll

question C.

When I ask

you,

I obviously

mean

your group and the activities

that

your

group sponsors,

you

avoid certain times

such as

following wet weather events?

MS. FRISBIE: My understanding

is we

are not talking

about up

weather here

today,

but

we do check the

weather. Friends’ of

The

Chicago River checks the river

for

our

paddling programs, and if

there is

storm

that will impact the

area of river that we

are

paddling on, we’ll take that into

account, if there’s going to be

lightening,

that kind of thing.

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think

it’s really important to

remember

that

only take a fraction

people out

the

river that

use

the CAWS.

our programs

are

just a

fraction.

we can’t control

what any other individual or group is doing.

MR. ANDES:

Understood.

So when

you

are talking

about

very young children,

that’s what kind of age range?

MS. FRISBIE:

Under six.

MR. ANDES:

And

are your guides

told not

allow children under six in your

events?

MS. FRISBIE:

I believe -- I know in

the Flatwater Classic materials, which is

our canoe and kayak race

we hold, that

it’s

posted

that

you

need

to be

six years or

older. And I believe on our website and all

the information on our paddling programs, it

says you

need

to be

six or higher. That’s

slightly higher than the U.S. Canoe

Association Guideline, which calls for five

year

olds.

MR. ANDES: Are there special

safety

protocols for children?

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Page 23

other people

on the river. The City of

Chicago has built docks. The Chicago Park

District has built docks. The Army Corp has

built docks. The Skokie Park district has

dock. Facepoint on the Cal Sag,

you

can

access

the river system on the

CAWS there.

just

there’s --

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Stacy

Meyers-Glen.

I’m with Openlands. Are

lot of those that

you just

mentioned on the CAWS Circle Tour

CD or in the photographs?

MS. FRISBIE:

Yes.

DR. YATES: And

you

actually saw

‘4

everything on that Circle

Tour that’s

‘5

depicted

in those photographs, right?

MS. FRISBIE:

Yes.

MR. ANDES: And all those activities

take

place

without disinfection

being part

of the process

the treatment plants,

correct?

MS.

FRISBIE:

Yes, they do.

MR. ANDES:

there any liability

protection that the Friends’ afford

themselves when it’s organizing events on

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Page 25

right. However, I don’t think it’s

important

break down Friends’ trips that

way. Unlike the canoe liveries who take

out

thousands of people, we

just

take a fraction

those people out. I have a list

crew

teams and where

they row from, a

rental

company list that shows other people that

are taking people

out.

And I think it’s

just

important

distinguish between what

Friends’ of The Chicago River is doing and

what is possible on the CAWS and what is

happening on the CAWS.

MR.

ANDES:

My question was just

about

your activities.

MS. FRISBIE:

Okay.

MR. ANDES: I’ll skip C, and let’s

go to

Can you

break the numbers down

terms of the 2640 people in terms of which

beaches

they

would have been canoeing on?

MS. FRISBIE:

We made

chart of

those trips. I don’t-- again, I don’t

think it’s important

break down Friends’

trips. We

take people out

an education

and advocacy role. We

don’t

organize

Page 26

anything

beyond that, and so

what these

numbers represent really are people who

interested in being on the river. There are

people who are willing

to pay

for that

experience. We think that that represents

greater public, and I know that I’ve

mentioned later in my testimony plans

and

activities

major land owners, the City of

Chicago Park District who are all investing

in the

access to

the river, and

have this chart. But it’s,

you

know, again,

it’s breaking

down

reach,

but

I don’t

think it’s that important.

MR. ANDES:

Duly noted.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

I’ve been

handed Friends’ of The Chicago River

Individual Canoe Trips By Reach 1998 to

2008. It’s

a chart, I

will mark this

Exhibit 267 if there’s no objection. Seeing

none, it’s Exhibit 267.

MR. Andes:

have a

couple

questions

about

this. It looks like the

largest numbers is in the Skokie Lagoons.

You understand that that’s not part

of the

Page 27

system that’s

being

addressed

in this

rulemaking,

right?

MS. FRISBIE: Yes,

but

I think it

was a specific

question of on or off

the

CAWS,

it includes all of it.

MR. ANDES:

And can you

define the

north branch barge traffic

areas? I’m

just

not sure exactly the

area we are speaking

about.

MS. FRISBIE:

I believe that would

the north branch south of

Webster Street,

which I think is the most

far north barges

go at

this point.

MR. ANDES:

The second

category is

main stem,

north branch, south branch, and

the

next category is north shore, north

branch channel. Can

you

explain

that?

MS. FRISBIE:

I’ll

honest, these

are the

names of the trips. So how I would

believe that I would interpret it

is, the

main tern, north branch

and south branch are

basically trips that

covered all those

areas.

North branch, north shore

channel

would

be, say,

putting it

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MR.

ANDES:

you

know,

and perhaps

not

because

it doesnt

look

itTs

not

broken

out

this

way

on the

chart,

how many

person

trips occurred

on the

upper

north

branch

the

Chicago

River

upstream

Albany

Avenue

dam which

would

outside

the

CAWS?

MS.

FRISBIE:

My belief

is that

percent

were

the Skokie

lagoons,

and

all

the rest

are

the

north

branch.

Not

the

upper

north

branch,

but

the

CAWS,

excuse

me.

MR.

ANDES:

Okay.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

I’m

sorry,

can

have one

follow-up.

The

Lincoln

Park

Juniors,

you

said

you

were familiar

with

that,

far

having

relative

that

crews.

you

know

how

often

they

practice

or are

out

the waterway?

MS.

FRISBIE:

Six

days

week

from

nine

nine-and-a-half

months

year.

22Z

MR.

ANDES:

When

you

spoke

in the

testimony

about

2640

people,

are

talking

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trips

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Page 39

MR. ANDES:

Let’s move on

question 7.

You

state

that thousands attend

these

Chicago

River

and Park District

Programs from 2004

to 2007. Do you know if

that’s total number of individuals

or --

MS. FRISBIE: I would -- again, it’s

-- we

don’t track the information. But my

guess

it’s just individuals. The park

district

does

all

the promotion and booking

for those. We

just

run

it as a subcontract.

MR. ANDES: You are guessing it’s

probably

person trips?

MS. FRISBIE:

I’m

guessing person

trips.

MR. ANDES:

And

where

those

paddling programs take place,

on the main

stem?

MS. FRISBIE:

I have

chart of that

well.

We’ll

pause

and

let it get entered

this

time.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

I’ve been

handed Friends’ of The

Chicago River,

Chicago

Park District Canoe Trips, 2004

2008. It’s

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Page 42

Creek, May 15, 2008, City of Chicago

Department of Planning and

Development,

Department of Environment,

The

U.S.

Arm

Corp

of Engineers, the Chicago

Research Site

Group Design Group, LTD. If there’s no

objection we will mark that

Exhibit 273.

Seeing none, it’s Exhibit 273.

MS. DEXTER: And

list of

park

district projects that Margaret

referenced

is the next document and one

example is Ping

Town Park.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

The

Chicago Park District memorandum

dated

November 8, 2008.

I will mark

‘5

Exhibit

274,

if there’s no objection.

Seeing none, it’s Exhibit 274.

And Ping Town Shoreline

Improvements Schematic A, we will mark as

Exhibit 275, if there’s no objection.

Seeing none it’s Exhibit 275.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

mind repeating

which ones are which.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Let me

start from the beginning. 271 is the

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Page

from 2007

that

lists

series of

restaurants

that

are on the Calumet

system, and how

you

can

boat

there. Actually,

it’s meant

as a

pub

crawl,

which someone

said,

I don’t think

they

would

say

that if people

were

in cars.

But, anyway,

I think that

that

gets

the

point across.

The other

thing I believe

that

was on

list

was

effluent

disinfection

which

we’re talking

about

right now.

MR.

ANDES: And

all of

these

activities

have

occurred

without

disinfection?

MS. DEXTER:

Can we

stop

and

enter

the

exhibit she

referenced.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

If there’s

no objection,

I will

mark the

Chicago River

Agenda

Exhibit

276.

Seeing none,

it’s

Exhibit 2

76.

MS.

DEXTER:

And then we

have the

Sun

Times article

that

Margaret

jjist

mentioned

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

And Sun

Times

article

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with

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Page 49

actually have the actual

number, but

you get

the sense that majority of

these

people

are

not members.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

I’ve

been

handed

pie chart entitled “Public Comment

Friends

of the Chicago River Members Versus

Nonmembers

2009.

there is no objection,

we will mark that 278. Seeing none,

it’s

Exhibit 278.

MR. ANDES:

And nonmembers include

people

who are members of other groups?

MS. FRISBIE:

I have

way

tracking that information.

MR. ANDES:

Politicians, others --

MS. FRISBIE:

Yes.

MR. ANDES:

-- everybody who isn’t

member of Friends?

MS. FRISBIE:

Correct.

MR. ANDES:

I’m going

move on

question 12.

Knowing what

to do about

CSO5,

other bacterial

sources into the waterways,

physical conditions of the waterways,

you

feel that swimming and wading in the CAWS,

for

example, would

be a

safe activity for

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Page 55

species?

MS. FRISBIE:

I’m not an expert in

that

area. I

don’t

want

to get

into that.

But

what

I was talking

about

is was TARP,

not disinfection.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

If there’s

no objection, we will mark the

chart “Total

Number of Fish

Species Collected From The

Chicago and Calumet

River System between

1974 and 2005”

Exhibit 280. Seeing none,

it’s Exhibit 280.

MR. ANDES: That’s

all I have.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Thank

you

very much.

The IEPA,

you

have any

questions?

MS. DIERS: Stephanie Diers for the

Illinois EPA, and I’m going to

ask

you our

prefiled questions to

start with.

Question 1, on

page

3 of your

pre-filed testimony you state,

“Over the

- past

11 years these guides

have taken

least

2640 people canoeing on the north

shore canal, north branch of the

Chicago

River, main stem, south branch,

down Bubbly

Page 56

Creek

and along the Chicago Sanitary and

Ship Canal.”

What information

the guides

receive on

the water quality for these

waters?

MS. FRISBIE: We

distribute

-- we

train the guides

the spring,

and

we give

them the details that are listed in the CAWS

health

brochure that we handed

out

earlier.

I forget the

exhibit number, forgive me.

MS. DIERS:

you

know if any of

these guides have gotten sick from contact

with

the water?

MS. FRISBIE:

not know that.

MS. DIERS: With respect

-- this

will

go to

question two,

but it’s

with

regard

Exhibit 276, the Chicago River

Agenda. Do

you

know who authored this

document?

MS. FRISBIE:

It was published

the Mayor’s Office Of The City of Chicago

and released

in June of 2005. We actually

have copies

to go

-- we already

passed it

out. So it was authored and distributed

the City

of Chicago and kicked off with

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the

turning basin

North

Avenue on

the

north

branch,

and

I think

that’s

carp,

but

I’m

not sure.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

the

Birds

of the Chicago

River

-- let me

ask

this. It appears

there’s

shading.

Is that

an indication

that they

were

found on the

Chicago

River?

MS.

FRISBIE:

Yes.

Forgive me

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

If there’s

no objection,

we will

mark

“Birds of the

Chicago

River” as

Exhibit

281. Seeing

none,

it’s Exhibit

281.

“Fishes

Of The

Chicago Waterway

System,” if

there’s no objection,

we will

mark that

Exhibit 282.

Seeing

none, it’s

Exhibit

282.

MR. ANDES:

Can I

ask again, what

the source

of that?

MS. FRISBIE:

The Fishes

of the

waterway

was sent

from

person, from

Frank

Veraldi who

gave it

one of the

Friends

The Chicago

River staff.

don’t remember

the

context of

why she gave

it. I’ve

had it

Page

a file for the last couple years, but

was given

to Cynthia Fox from

Frank Veraldi,

who works for

the Army Corps

of Engineers.

MS. FRISBIE:

I can get

that

information

because

I will

see

him on

Saturday

Chicago River Day. If we’d like

the source, I could

get

that.

MR. ANDES:

We would.

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

And then

we had “Wildlife

on the

CAWS.” We will mark

Exhibit 283, if there’s no objection.

Seeing none, it is Exhibit 283.

MS. DIERS:

I know

you

didn’t

prepare the exhibit. Is it intended

to be

from personal observation,

fish they

caught?

MS. FRISBIE: I honestly don’t know.

Fish testing? I

don’t know. I’m

sorry,

don’t.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Can I ask

have

you looked at the “Fishes Chicago

Waterway System” admitted

Exhibit 283,

and compared it

the total number of fish

species

which

we admitted

280

to see

Page 62

they are consistent?

MS. FRISBIE:

I did not. That’s

good

question. Although I think -- yeah, I

don’t know.

MS. DEXTER:

Thanks for

your

patience. I think we are done.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

One last

chance for any questions for Ms. Frisbie.

Let’s take

ten-minute break.

(Whereupon,

break was taken

after which the following

proceedings were had.)

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Let’s

ahead and

back on the record. Can we

have

you

introduce yourselves.

MR. BAMONTE:

My name is

Tom

Bamonte.

MR. QUAIL:

I’m John Quail with

Friends

of the

Chicago River.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Can we

have Mr. Bamonte sworn in.

TOM BAMONTE

having been first duly sworn, was examined and

testified

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Page 74

of --

MS. WILLIAMS:

Can you

explain what

you mean

the loop?

MR. BAMONTE:

The

downtown area, the

loop, the

downtown

area.

MS. WILLIAMS:

I thought

you

were

referring

to --

MR. BAMONTE:

The loop,

it’s tough

jumping into the rulemaking

not knowing the

terminology. Through the

downtown area,

popular paddle, for example, is

come down

through Clark Park and

through

the

lochs

and come

back. There’s more paddling

downtown inspired in part

the Flatwater

Classic down

the Ping

Town area. I have

paddled,

and I know others who have paddled,

continued down the sanitary canal

to,

think there is

take

out

at a

currently

deserted boat

launch

about

ten miles south

of there. There was paddling -

MS. WILLIAMS: Do

you

know

if that’s

the Summit?

MR.

BAMONTE:

I believe that’s the

Summit. That’s

popular paddle. Bubbly

Page

Creek is until recent work there

was

known

launch site. Kind of

rough launch

site

but

paddlers were launching from there.

The

Calumet area, there’s

launch on the

Calumet River. You

through the lochs

into lake

Calumet, that’s

popular paddle.

In fact, my organization

hosted a paddle

this

past

weekend from Calumet Park in

through the Calumet Harbor. I don’t know if

they made it through the lochs and into the

Little Calumet River,

but

again

MS. WILLIAMS:

When

you say lochs in

this context are

you

talking

about

the

O’Brien’s --

MR. BAMONTE:

I believe they are the

O’Brien locks.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Why don’t I show

you

this map. I’m showing the witness

map

kind of

proposed recreation

use

designation

that’s Exhibit 27. It was also

attachment H

the Agency’s proposal.

And

what I’d like

ask

you

is, if this map,

there

are different colors

used to

designate

different

recreational use designations

Page

proposed by

the

Agency?

MR. BAMONTE:

How did

you

know that

I was partially color blind. Can we

go by

location?

MS. WILLIAMS: Absolutely, we are

going

to --

MR. ANDES:

Can

we have copies?

MR. BAMONTE:

Can

you

have copies of

Exhibit 27.

MR. ANDES:

I don’t know what

you

are referring

to.

just

don’t

have

that

handy.

MS. WILLIAMS:

stopped

bringing

the giant ones.

MR. ANDES: I’ll try

remember it.

MS. WILLIAMS: All I’d like

ask

you

is, on this map in yellow are

marked

the

areas

I’m tracing with my hands that are

designated

incidental contact recreation,

and I believe all the areas that

you’ve

just

identified are

within

that

yellow. However,

the, from the confluence of the Chicago

Sanitary and Ship Canal and the Cal Sag

Channel

the O’Brien’s

locks and dam is

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Page 78

MR. BAMONTE:

Personally, no,

because it’s not

a stretch that I personally

paddled.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Thank

you

very

much.

MS. DEXTER:

When

you

paddle on

the

CAWS,

do you act

differently than when

you

paddle when

there’s sewage?

THE WITNESS:

Well, kayaking is

very wet sport, and what we

commonly do is

rolls, we practice

rescues, basically,

what

you do when

you

fall

out

of your

boat.

We have

mentorship

program where we try

train each other how

to get

back in

your

‘4

boat

quickly

and effectively. When

you

‘5

paddle on CAWS, there’s

such a

kind of

community sense,

you

don’t want

to go there,

‘7

and it

means that the paddling experience

only partial

because, again,

you

are just

‘9

literally paddling,

but you

are avoiding

the

kind of

full body contact, play,

safety

training, whatnot,

that’s very much

part

of the paddling sport.

MS. DEXTER:

Thank

you.

MR. ETTINGER:

Can

you

tell

what

Page

roll is?

MR. BAMONTE:

A roll is something

called an Eskimo roll. It’s

common

self-rescue technique. That’s kind

of the

golden rule for kayakers is try not to get

out

of your boat, and what

happens is when

you

tip over, either accidentally or much

more likely on purpose, then

you

are

under

your

boat

and

you

execute

technique

and

you

roll back

up.

That means you

are under

water for five seconds.

It means that

you

are

not

-- you

don’t have full

body

immersion, which is

important in cold water.

You

want

avoid getting your full body in,

and

you

are in your

boat.

it’s

very

quick, safe, fun thing, and

what kayakers

do,

it’s almost

like water ballet when we

out

and practice in appropriate

water, we’ll

roll. We’ll

things

that are known

skulling,

which is lying in the water and

just

paddling

so you

can keep your

line

zto

your

boat

and

you

roll back up.

None of

those things we do on

the CAWS system

because of the

water quality concerns that

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things?

MR. BAMONTE:

Correct, there

are

written

directions that say don’t do

it.

And in fact,

would

if you

are

paddler with

roll and something

goes

wrong

in the river,

you

are better off rolling

than coming

out

of your

boat, but

in terms

of practice, that’s something that

private

paddlers don’t do, and the

commercial

outfitters

like Kayak Chicago

and

others, my observation is that they also

direct their clients

avoid full body

immersion.

their clients are not getting

the full immersion in the sport, if you

will.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Anything

else for Mr. Bamonte? Thank

you

very much

for

your

testimony.

Mr. Ford, are

you

ready

to go

do you

need some time?

(Brief

recess taken,

after which

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missing on some of the attachments. So you

might

want to take a look at that

and

compare

it to

what

you

have.

The other

point

I think we were

going

make is Mr. Huff’s -- some of the

new stuff that has been included is not

numbered. It’s not broken

out.

He’s

included lots of partial documents.

It’s

going

to be

very difficult

we are going

through

find for everyone,

to be

following along and finding things in the

way the attachments were organized.

MR. FORD:

Well, Madam Hearing

Officer, we’re glad

work through this

first we’ve heard of any discrepancies,

but

have other copies of the testimony and

hard

copy

in the back if anybody needs

hard

copy.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

I will

point out that it’s electronically filed.

It’s

not

a scanning

issue.

It’s

how the

electronic

copy

is filed.

MS. DIERS:

I think Exhibit A,

tab

when

it was scanned or however it was

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Page 88

MR. FORD:

Thank you.

I have extra

copies

of Exhibit 29 if anybody

needs them.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Can we

have one

here? I’d

like the Agency

have one.

MR. FORD:

Mr. Huff, I ask you to

look

what

was previously marked as

Exhibit

29. It’s

document

entitled “UAA

Factor Applications Of The

Lower Des Plaines

River and CAWS.” Do you

have that document

before you?

MR.

HUFF:

Yes, sir.

‘3

MR. FORD: And I’d

direct

your attention to

the second

page

that

document. I believe that

the bottom row

which is entitled

“Lower

CSSC,” do

you have

that in front

you?

MR. HUFF:

Yes, I

do.

MR. FORD:

And is it your

understanding

that this is the segment of

the ship canal on which the Citco

refinery

is located?

MR. HUFF:

Yes.

MR. FORD:

I think the prior

Page

testimony was that this was

summary table

prepared

the Agency

indicate

simply

and quickly for the parties and

the Board

their views of the different uses.

Mr. Huff, I’d like to

direct

your attention to the

recreational

use