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ILLINOIS

POLLUTION

CONTROL BOARD

IN THE

MATTER

OF:

WATER

QUALITY

STANDARDS

AND

)

R08-9

EFFLUENT

LIMITATIONS

FOR

THE

)

(Rulemaking

CHICAGO AREA

WATERWAY

SYSTEM

)

Water)

AND LOWER

DES

PLAINES

RIVER

PROPOSED

AMENDMENTS

ILL.

ADM.

CODE 301,

302,

303 and 304)

TRANSCRIPT

PROCEEDINGS

held in

the

above—entitled

cause at the

James R.

Thompson

Building,

100

West

Randolph

Street,

Chicago,

Illinois,

Room 2-025,

on the

17th

day

February,

2009,

9:00 a.m.

BEFORE:

MARIA E.

TIPSORD,

HEARING OFFICER,

ILLINOIS

POLLUTION CONTROL

BOARD

100

West

Randolph

Street

Suite

11—500

Chicago,

Illinois

60601

312—814—4925.

Page 2

APPEARANCES:

MS.

MARIE TIPSORD,

Hearing

Officer,

MS. ALISA

LIU, Environmental

Scientist,

MR.

ANAND

RAO,

Senior

Environmental

Scientist,

MR.

TANNER GIRARD,

Acting

Chairman,

MR.

SHUNDAR

LIN, Board

Member,

MS. ANDREA

MOORE,

Board

Member,

MR.

THOMAS

JOHNSON,

Board Member.

ILLINOIS

ENVIRONMENTAL

PROTECTION

AGENCY,

1021

North Grand

Avenue

East

P.O. Box

19276

Springfield,

Illinois 62794—9276

217—782—5544

MS.

DEBORAH

WILLIAMS,

MS. STEPHANIE

DIERS,

ENVIRONMENTAL

LAW

& POLICY CENTER,

East

Wacker

Drive, Suite

1300

Chicago,

Illinois

60601—2110

312—795—3707

MS.

JESSICA

DEXTER;

Page

APPEARANCES

(cont’d)

BARNES

THORNBURG,

LLP,

One North

Wacker

Drive

Suite

4400

Chicago,

Illinois

60606

312—357—1313

MR.

FREDRIC

P. ANDES,

appeared

behalf of

the

Metropolitan

Water

Reclamation

District.

Page 4

WITNESS

ADRIENNE

MEMURA...

PAUL FREEDMAN

SAMUEL

DENNISON...

PAGE

INDEX

EXHIBITS

NUMBER

MARKED

FOR ID

Exhibit

No. 200

Exhibit

No. 201

Exhibit No.

202

Exhibit

No.

203

Exhibit

No. 204

Exhibit

No.

205

Exhibit

No. 206

Exhibit No.

207

Exhibit

No.

208

Exhibit

No.

209

Exhibit

No. 210

Page

MS.

TIPSORD:

Good

afternoon,

everyone.

Let’s

ahead

and

back

on the

record.

have

with

Adrienne

Nemura.

And Ms.

Nemura’s

testimony

was previously

Exhibit

116.

will

note

that

you

are,

therefore,

still under

oath.

And

have

some

questions

that

we’re

going

come

back

to.

this point

I’m

going

start

with

the IEPA.

ADRIENNE

NEMURA,

called

as a

witness

herein,

having

been previously

duly

sworn

and

having

testified,

was examined

and

testified

further

follows:

EXAMINATION

(Resumed)

BY MS.

WILLIAMS:

Good

afternoon,

Ms.

Nemura.

I believe

you testified in

September

that

you

were

not

making

specific

recommendation

the Board

for

wet weather

exemption

for recreational

uses.

Is that

correct?

Correct.

Page

Is it

your testimony that the same is

true

for

aquatic

life

uses?

That is

true.

believe

you

also testified in

September

that

you

were not aware

of any UAAs in

other

states

that had

been completed that allowed

for

the

suspension

of aquatic life

uses

in wet

weather. Is that correct?

The UAA5

that have been done for

aquatic

life haven’t

specifically addressed the

issue of wet weather. Although wet weather

periods

may have been included in

those UAA5.

Okay.

MS. TIPSORD:

Ms. Williams,

would it

help if I had premarked

Question 5 marked?

MS. WILLIAMS: Well, I think she

just

addressed that.

MS. TIPSORD:

Okay.

MS. WILLIAMS:

That’s why I’m trying

to see if -— I think I can skip on

Question 20.

MR. JOHNSON:

What

number?

MS. WILLIAMS:

Twenty.

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MR.

ANDES:

The

document

is an

excerpt

from

Maryland

regulations

water

quality

criteria

specific

designated

uses

26.0802.03—3.

MS.

TIPSORD:

And

if there

objection,

will happily,

and

with

all

excitement,

state

that

we will

enter

this

Exhibit

200.

Seeing

none,

that

Exhibit

200.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

200

for identification,

2/17/09.)

MR.

ANDES:

I believe

we have

201,

well.

MS.

TIPSORD:

All

right.

MR. ANDES:

This

document,

use

attainability analysis

for

the federal

navigation

channels

located

titled

portions

the Patapsco

River.

MS. TIPSORD:

If there’s

objection,

we will

mark

the

document

just

identified

Exhibit

201.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I’m

not

sure

so this

Page

is from

the

Chesapeake

Bay

also?

I’m

just

trying

make sure I

understand before

THE

WITNESS:

The

Chesapeake

Bay

UAA was

the

regional UAA

for

the

Chesapeake Bay

affecting

several

states.

And that document

is also

used as

supporting

information

for

states

specific

UAA,

such

the Patapsco.

MS. WILLIAMS:

I have

no objection.

MS.

TIPSORD: With

that, we

will

mark

this

as Exhibit

201.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked Exhibit

No. 201

for

identification,

of 2/17/09.)

BY THE WITNESS:

And

the end of the

Patapsco

UAA, it

does

indicate

that Maryland’s

proposal

was that the

criteria

for the navigation

channel

could

zero

milligrams per

liter from

June 1

September

30,

inclusive.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Can

you

show me in

200 where the

dissolved oxygen

standards

are you’re referring

to?

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Page

But

what

about

in your

opinion?

In my

opinion,

because

you

have

continuing

wet weather

problems that will occur,

such

tributary runoff,

storm water runoff,

you

still will

have some

CSO

events

and pump station

discharges.

In my opinion,

you

may not

able

meet the proposed

dissolved oxygen criteria

when

you

have wet weather

loads within the

Chicago area

waterways,

because of the

unique nature of the

system.

MR.

ANDES:

I think it will

help if

pass

out

copies of

—- this was Figure

Attachment 4, what

she’s referring

to.

BY MS. WILLIAMS:

I don’t think it’s

what you’re

referring

to;

is it?

Because we’re talking

about --

oh, I

see.

Explain

me why

you would

say

this is what

you’re referring

to now?

MS. TIPSORD:

Wait

minute.

Let’s

clear. This is

Figure 5

Attachment

4 of

Ms. Nemura’s

Exhibit 116 of her

prefiled

testimony;

correct?

MR. ANDES:

Yes.

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Page 15

pipes going out

the river,

they can’t divert the

storm water and the

sewage into the interceptor,

it flows

out by gravity

the

Chicago area

waterways.

MR.

ANDES:

when

you

talk

-—

clarify.

When

you

talk

about the gravity

CSOs,

it’s the

two main components of the

old

CSO system or the pump stations, like

Racine Avenue -- enormous

pump stations with

lot of flow

-- and then several hundred

individual

CSO

outfalls; correct?

THE WITNESS:

Correct.

MR. ANDES:

And

you’re talking

about

scenario

where you would eliminate every

one

the several hundred individual

CSO

outfalls?

THE WITNESS:

Right.

BY MS.

WILLIAMS:

But, Ms. Nemura, I

guess

what

I’m

getting

is,

does

this chart

reflect the modeling

that would

happen

without

gravity

CSOs?

But it

doesn’t

—- it’s not just gravity

CSO5

that Tarp

designed

to address; is it?

Isn’t Tarp also going

address

Page 16

the pump station discharges?

I’m not familiar

with the specifics of

the District’s Tarp program.

MR. ANDES:

Is your understanding

that

Tarp will

eliminate 100 percent of the

gravity

CSOs?

THE WITNESS:

No.

MR. ANDES:

So this hypothetical is

actually very conservative, in terms of

assuming that, let’s

see

what would happen

eliminated

every

single one of those

several hundred

CSO

outfalls.

THE WITNESS:

Correct.

So you

can

see that the dash line

where that simulation was run, there will

some wet weather events, even if

you could

eliminate the

CSO

discharges

where you would

still violate the criteria.

BY MS. WILLIAMS:

In the hypothetical

scenarios

that

you

eliminate gravity

CSOs, but not the huge volume from

the

pump

station discharges; correct?

Correct.

Question 32 presents

a quote

from

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Page 20

protect.

MR. ANDES:

And

we have two reports

that Ms. Nemura

is referring

to.

The first

one is

Behavioral Response

Fish

Larvae

Low Dissolved Oxygen

Concentrations in

Stratified

Water Colony.

MS. TIPSORD: And

that

article is

D.L.

Wreitburg, from

Marine Biology 1994.

there’s no objection, we will

enter

this

Exhibit 202. Seeing none,

it’s

Exhibit 202.

(WHEREUPON,

a certain document

was

marked Exhibit

No. 202 for identification,

as of

2/17/09.)

MR. ANDES:

The second report, titled

The

Influence of Fish Size on the Avoidance

of Hypoxia and Oxygen Selection

Large

Mouth Bass.

MS.

TIPSORD:

And this is from the

Journal

of Fish Biology 2001. If there’s

objection, we will mark this

Exhibit

203.

Seeing none, it’s Exhibit

203.

Page

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

203

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

MS.

WILLIAMS:

So,

Ms.

Nemura,

can

you

tell

whether

this

Exhibit

202

addresses

Channel

Catfish

Large

Mouth

Bass?

They

address

Large

Mouth

Bass.

And

202?

MR.

ANDES:

Can

take

copy

back

202?

you

have

extra?

MS.

TIPSORD:

Actually,

yes.

There’s

some

right

there.

THE

WITNESS:

No,

I’m

sorry,

Exhibit

202

provides

references

that

discuss

the

phenomenon

that

was

talking

about.

And

don’t

know

whether

those

specific

references

would

—-

the

studies

included

the Large

Mouth

Bass.

Exhibit

202

two

species,

the

Naked

Goby

and

the

Bay

Anchovy.

And

specifically

addressed

larvae,

which

are

sensitive,

well

the

adult

Naked

Gobies

that

could

Page

tolerate

milligrams

per

liter

for

seven

hours

less.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Do we

have

the

entire

document

front

us?

appears

that

not

the

entire

document.

But

can

make

that

available.

MR.

ANDES:

can

certainly

provide

the

entire

document

that

people

want

read

it.

THE

WITNESS:

But

the

gist

this

study

you

have

dissolved

oxygen

gradient.

And

the

question

was

whether

the

low

that

are

present

those

gradients

could

tolerated

fish.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Would

you

agree,

Ms.

Nemura,

that

once

you

determine ——

well,

first

all,

how

would

you

determine

the

list

potential

fish

species

that

you’d

looking

under

the methodology

that

you

just

described?

How

would

determine

it?

Uh-huh.

You

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Which

have

already

determined,

already

settled?

Yes.

You

agree?

Yes.

think

that’s

all

I was

trying

get

at,

thank

you.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Any

additional

follow-up,

Mr.

Andes?

MR.

ANDES:

No.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Dr.

Lin

has

question.

DR.

LIN:

You

talk

about

fish

species

important

DO.

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about

the

nitrate

content

fish

very

important

for

fish

species.

you

consider

this

problem?

MR.

ANDES:

Are

you

talking

about

nitrate

nitrogen?

MR.

LIN:

Nitrate

and

nitrogen,

same

thing.

THE

WITNESS:

Okay.

You

would

also

need

look

appropriate

ammonia

and

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criteria,

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MS.

DEXTER:

That’s

all

have.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Anything

further

for

Ms.

Nemura?

Thank

you very

much

for

coming

back.

(WHEREUPON, the

witness

was

excused.)

MS.

TIPSORD:

That

takes

us to

Mr. Freedman.

(WHEREUPON, the

witness

was

duly

sworn.)

MR.

ANDES:

Here

a copy

his

testimony.

MS.

TIPSORD:

And if

there’s

objection,

will

mark Mr.

Freedman’s

prefiled

testimony

as Attachment

to Exhibit

204.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

204.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No. 204

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

MS.

TIPSORD:

And whenever

you’re

ready,

Ms. Williams.

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that’s

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correct?

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want

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excuse

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you

know,

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habitat

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fish

sediment

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quality

data

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UAA?

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sorry,

was

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what

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the Habitat

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second.

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you’ve

stated

on Page

12,

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Biological

Assessment

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will

provide

comprehensive

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you

know

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partial

answer

your

question,

yes,

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the

habitat

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completed,

you

will

begin

have

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foundation

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how

put

this,

shall

say,

puzzle

all

together.

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all

those

pieces

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define

both

the

use

and

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criterion.

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“What

are

the

significant

impacts

you

are

referring

Page

the

prefiled

testimony?”

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ANDES:

you

mean

significant

impact?

THE

WITNESS:

think

you’re

quoting?

MS.

DEXTER:

Yes.

guess

would

refer

you

Pages

and

testimony,

well

Pages

and

report.

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there

draw

from

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research

others.

talk

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loss

habitat,

flow

variations,

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Page 46

Ms.

Nemura

of how

set a

wet

weather

standard?

THE

WITNESS:

I would concur

with

her

comments.

BY MS.

DIERS:

Is the

habitat

study

that

you’re

involved

in,

would

help

one work

proposal

for

a wet

weather

standard?

It’s

foundation,

but,

the

case

wet weather,

there’s

many

other

complicating

factors

that

aren’t

specifically

addressed

in the

habitat

study.

And what

are those

complicated

factors?

I think I

detailed

them

before,

the

rising

and lowering

flow,

the

existance

storm

water loads,

what

might

happening

with

combined

sewer

overflows

and pump

stations, scour

and

sediment

deposition

as a result

changes

in flow

and the

stagnation

conditions.

I think

you’d

have

to consider all

those

factors,

when considering

wet

weather

provision.

Prefiled

Question

12.

“In your

prefiled

testimony on

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Page 51

the Cal

Sag as

having

steep

solid

walls.

You

know,

sounds

awful similar

me.

And

another

example,

I think

spent

lot of

time

Bubbly Creek

about its

unique

conditions

and stagnation

and

stratification

with Dr.

Melching,

and

Dr. Garcia.

And

even Dr. Dennison’s

discussion.

And the

-- so

the conditions

Bubbly

Creek

are

unique,

even within

the

context

of the

uniqueness of

the

CAWS.

But,

furthermore,

I found it

quite

surprising that

that very specialized

unique area,

that

the IEPA had

data

on the Bubbly

Creek

demonstrate

how

it would fit

in any

of the

use classifications.

was

conclusion that

the

IEPA had failed

their ability

to provide

the necessary

scientific

justification.

BY MS.

DIERS:

Question

16.

“Row

did

you

term that

the

biological

potential

of the Calumet

Sag Channel

less than

the

biological

potential

represented

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Page

along

the

whole

length

the

Cal

Sag,

well

all areas

the

CAWS.

MR.

ANDES:

can

up,

have

you ——

did

you

also

review

and

agree

with

Dr.

Makk.e’s

statements

indicating

that

during

his

testimony

that

there

might

limited

areas

refuge

but

not for

spawning?

THE

WITNESS:

I reviewed

his

testimony. But,

you

know,

not

being,

again,

a, quote,

“biologic

expert,”

would

concur

with his

conclusions.

But I

haven’t

viewed

all

the

habitat

data,

Dr.

Mackey

did.

And

so I would

rely

his

testimony.

MS. DEXTER:

Dr.

Mackey

not

biologist;

correct?

He’s

habitat

specialist.

guess

I’m

not

here

to speak

through

-- to

his

—-

MR.

ANDES:

don’t

think

he’s an

expert

on Dr.

Mackey.

BY MS.

DIERS:

Are

you

a Biologist?

No,

I’m not.

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Page

THE

WITNESS:

guess

I would

repeat,

Maine

is certainly

example,

where

they’ve

done

the

tired

aquatic

uses.

MR. ANDES:

And

if I can

stop

you

there.

believe

we have

some

information

about

the Maine

approach

from

the

IEPA

draft

guidance.

THE WITNESS:

Yes.

we could

enter

that...

MR. ANDES:

These

are

selected

pages,

37,

from

draft

EPA

document

entitled

Use

of Biological

Information

Better

Define

Designated

Aquatic

Life Uses

State

and Tribal

Water

Quality

Standards:

Tier

Aquatic

Life

Uses.

MS.

TIPSORD:

will mark

this

draft

USEPA

document

Exhibit

205,

there’s

objection.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

205.

(WHEREUPON,

a certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

205

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

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actual

water quality

standards.

The

document

entitled Upper

South

Platte

River

Segment

Site—specific

Minimum Dissolved

Oxygen

Ammonia

Standards.

MS. TIPSORD:

And if

there’s

objection,

will mark

the Upper

South

Platte

River

standards

Exhibit 206.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit 206.

(WHEREUPON,

a certain document

was

marked

Exhibit

No. 206

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

MR.

ANDES:

This

is an excerpt

from

technical

report

concerning the

Upper

South

Platte.

The

title is Final

Technical

Memorandum

Responses

Seven

Fish Species

Diel

Fluctuations

Dissolved

Oxygen.

MS.

TIPSORD:

If there’s

no objection,

will mark

this

Exhibit

207.

It’s

the -- it’s

prepared

for

the

Metro

Wastewater

Reclamation

District,

Denver,

Colorado,

the

University

Wyoming.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I mean,

I don’t

-- I

guess I’ll

object.

I mean,

I don’t want

Page

be difficult,

but

this is

just

table

contents,

and a

one—page

introduction

this

document.

don’t

understand

for what

purpose

it’s being

offered.

MR. ANDES:

Just

moment.

would

say

that,

actually,

there

were

pages

that were

supposed

to be

copied

that

were

not.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Well, we’ll

withdraw

this

time

then

and

present

later?

MR.

ANDES:

can certainly

file

the

full

set

pages

that were

to be

done.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I don’t

think

that’s

reasonable,

because

don’t

think

can --

we can’t

cross—examine

this

witness

document

that’s

not

here

look

at;

right?

don’t think

that’s

reasonable.

MR. ANDES:

Mr.

Freedman

can certainly

testify

as to

the

water

quality

standard

and

his

understanding

for the

basis

for it.

MS.

TIPSORD:

We’re

going

hold

off.

will

not mark

this

Exhibit

207.

will

hold

off, and

when

you

get the

complete

document,

we can

put

it in.

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criteria

for

the CAWS,

I’m

just illustrating

the

kind

of process

that

one

would

go through

this and

how

one might

come

with

different

criteria

than

what

are in

other

general

use

waters.

MS. DEXTER:

Have

these

standards

been

adopted

Colorado?

don’t see

a citation

here.

Yes,

they

are

adopted.

can

get

you

the

actual

citation.

Okay.

we’ll

get

the more

complete

documentation and

the citation.

MR.

ANDES:

Sure.

That

a page

taken

directly

for

the

Ohio

regulations

online

——

Colorado,

excuse

me.

MS.

DEXTER:

just

don’t

see

a site

here.

MR.

ANDES:

They

don’t

site

numerically,

unfortunately,

the

Colorado

regulations.

BY MS.

DIERS:

Question

25.

“For

the

Cuyahoga

River shipping

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Page

area

waterways

are

much

severe.

only

pointed

out

the

comparison

because

the

IEPA

did make

comparison.

And

thought

they

were

-—

they were

going

make

the

comparison

-- again,

this relates

the

comparability

discussion

that

we had

before.

That

if you’re

going

compare

it,

you

ought

comprehensive, which

don’t

feel

that

they

did.

And that

would

their

kind

of responsibility

kind

of look

similar

systems

and

kind of

make

an assessment.

And

don’t

feel

that they

they

did that

job

thorough

enough.

BY MS.

DEXTER:

Can

I ask

you,

you

just

-—

you stated

how

the

systems

between

the

Cuyahoga

and

the

Chicago

area

waterways

differ,

but

I’m

not sure

you

answered

the

question

how they

differ

respect

its

biological

potential.

And

terms of

its biological

potential,

have not

done

comprehensive

study

compare

the

two

them,

don’t

think

I could

answer

that

question

thoroughly

and accurately.

MS.

DEXTER:

Okay.

Page

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I have

one

area

I’d

with

your

testimony,

Mr. Freedman.

And

it’s

regarding

Pages

and

your

discussion

the

Illinois

general

use

designation.

I’m

going

refer

you

Page

the

first

full

paragraph.

MR.

ANDES:

Page

5 of

his

testimony

his

report?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

His

testimony

this

point.

think

something

similar

the

report,

but...

THE

WITNESS:

Yeah.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

And

I am

going

read

the

second

sentence

well,

can

you

just

read

the

second

sentence

that

paragraph?

Start

with

further?

Yes.

“Further,

general

use waters

are

designed

protect

communities

predominantly

composed

pollution

sensitive

species,

where

the

CAWS

proposed

aquatic

life

uses

decide

predict

tolerant

intermediate

tolerant

species,

which

Page

presumably

could

supported

less

stringent

criteria.”

Can you

point

the

basis

for

your

statement

regarding

general

use

water?

You

have

quote

the

middle

that.

Yeah.

And

doesn’t

refer

to what

you’re

quoting

from.

I’m not

sure

I brought

the

-- I

can

give

the

exact

page.

I’m

not

sure I

have

the

general

use

criteria

here with

me.

Well,

don’t

think it’s

in there,

that’s

why I

but

you think

you’re

quoting

from

the

general

use

criteria?

I believe

so. Or

might

from

the

EPA

criteria

document.

And

I’m

afraid,

since

that

wasn’t

one

of the

supplied

questions,

I don’t

have

the

supporting

information

on that.

I don’t

think

failed

respond

right

here.

Why don’t

you

take

look

at Page

4 of

your

report

and

see

that

jogs

your

memory

all.

I think

that’s

where

the same

information

presented.

Page

I’m on Page

4 of my testimony.

No, Page

4 of the —-

Prom

the

report, excuse

me.

The

report,

yeah.

And I think

you do

provide

citation

there.

And I can show

you

the

section

that

you’re

referring

to, if

you

want

to.

you see

what

I’m talking

about?

see

exactly

where it gives

an EPA

citation.

And what

is that, for the

record?

says,

“IEPA Title

35,

Part 202,

Section 302.105.”

And

why don’t

you

read the sentence

again. Can

you

read the

sentence that

precedes

that?

In this

—- in the report?

Uh-huh.

“In contrast,

general

use

waters,

which

apply

most

Illinois

streams, are

designed

protect

communities

predominantly

composed of

pollution

sensitive

species.

I’m going

show

you

I hope this

is okay,

for reference,

it’s the

Board

regulation.

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potential

than

the Chicago area

waterways

and

protect

different collection

of species. And

different

biologic

conditions,

and...

you

understand

what that

potential

is?

MR.

ANDES: Which

potential?

BY THE

WITNESS:

guess you’d have

define

that

for

me.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

You

said

the larger

point

you

were

let me

know

I’m correct.

Well, I want

to repeat

myself.

The

point you

were getting

that

the general

use

standards

were developed

for

different

biological

potential.

And

I’m asking

you,

do you

know

what biological

potential

is?

do know that

the Chicago

area

waterways

are very different

waterways

and

have

different

biologic

conditions

than

the general

waterways

in the

state

Illinois.

And

-- but I

haven’t

reviewed

the biologic

conditions

in all

the

Illinois

waterways

characterize

their

biologic

condition.

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you

know if in Illinois there are

general

use waters that are channelized?

I would

expect there are some.

What

about general

use

waters that are

primarily

urban industrial?

I would expect

there are some,

too.

What

about having areas with stagnant

areas?

I would expect

there might

some.

MR.

ANDES:

If I can follow

that.

Isnvt

there

a specific provision

for

stagnant

areas

in general

use

waters?

THE WITNESS:

Yes, there is.

BY MS. WILLIAMS:

What provisions

are

you

referring

to,

Mr. Freedman?

MR. ANDES:

It’s in his testimony.

BY THE WITNESS:

I believe

it’s referred in my

testimony, if I can look

that

up?

BY MS. WILLIAMS:

Sure.

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stagnant

conditions

should

reflected

this

rulemaking?

guess

I can’t

speak

to what

the

District

might

willing

to propose,

but

it is

opinion

that those

kinds

conditions

need

special

consideration.

And

those

special

considerations

weren’t

embodied

the

IEPA

proposal.

I think

you

spent

quite

bit of

time

this

morning

with

Dr. Garcia

talking

about

the

complexities

the hydraulics

and

special

conditions,

and

I think

those

conditions

are unique

the

state.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

That’s

all I

have

this.

MS. TIPSORD:

With

that,

Ms.

Dexter.

BY MS.

DEXTER:

I’m

going

start

with

my prefiled

Question

No.

“In

various

parts

your

testimony,

you

mentioned

temperature

effects

proposing

but

not

including

the

IEPA

adequately

studied.

What

portion

the CAWS

needs

further

study

with

regard

temperature

effect?”

Page 77

I really

only

mentioned

temperature

the

-— in some

limited

context

in my

testimony.

For

example, I

mentioned

temperature

when

quoting

others,

such

Dr.

Garcia,

to the factors

affecting

stratified

stagnant

conditions,

which

think

are

factors that

need more

study.

Another

example

quoted

was

from

the UAA

study from CDM,

which

talks

about

water

quality

not

meeting

criteria

and the

need for

site-specific

criteria.

the

questions

about

temperature

were

not really

a focal

point

of my

testimony,

but this was

a peripheral

issue.

you

know

who the

significant

thermal

discharges

the CAWS

are?

I didn’t

study the

thermal

discharges

the CAWS,

wouldn’t

able

rely giving

opinion

on that.

That’s

fine.

Are

the current

CSO5 harming

aquatic

life in

any portion of

the

CAWS?

I really have

not

made

study of

CSO

impacts on

aquatic

life,

per

se, so

-- and I

didn’t

testify

that,

I couldn’t

express

opinion

about the

effects on

actual aquatic

life.

Page

I’ll

skip

Question

4 then.

Five.

“Are

you

aware

any wet

weather

standards

that would

allow

dissolved

oxygen

conditions

fall

below

one

milligram

per

liter

and

provide

information on that

issue?”

MR. ANDES:

believe

several

examples

were

provided

that issue.

MS.

DEXTER:

what

weather

standards

would

allow

MR. ANDES:

Yes.

MS.

DEXTER:

-- dissolved

oxygen

fall

below one

milligram

per

liter?

MS.

ANDES:

Right.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I thought

she

testified

she

didn’t

know

of any

wet weather

aquatic

life

standards.

MR.

ANDES:

The

Patapsco

was

example,

believe,

Maryland.

MS.

NEMURA:

testified

that

what

the

UAA

has

done

for aquatic

life uses

were

not

specifically

done

with

wet weather

conditions

in mind,

but

conditions

addressed

the

UAA5

could

include

wet weather

conditions.

MS.

DEXTER:

We’re

talking

about

the

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testify

that she was

not

aware

that the standards

Maine

had ever

been

utilized

in practice

anywhere.

you

disagree

with

that?

BY THE

WITNESS:

I don’t

disagree

with that.

I’m

just

staying

that the

State

Water

Quality

Standards

provide

the allowance

for

that condition.

MR. ANDES:

I think

that was

the

question.

THE WITNESS:

And

that

was

all that I was

stating.

MS.

DEXTER:

Okay.

MR.

ANDES:

also have

copies of

the

Maine

and

Massachusetts

regulations,

that we

can introduce.

The

first

document

is from

the

Maine

Water

Quality

Standards,

38, Section

464

classification

Maine waters.

MS.

TIPSORD:

there’s

no objection,

we will

mark

the

Maine

Classification

Waters.

MS. WILLIAMS:

have an

objection.

I’m sorry,

but it

goes

from Page

to Page

MR.

ANDES:

The

relevant sections

may

Page 81

not site all

the various

pages

of that

particular

Maine regulation, only the

relevant portions.

MS.

TIPSORD: With that -- with noting

that, I’m

going

enter it over

Ms. William’s

objection

Exhibit 207.

(WHEREUPON,

certain document was

marked Exhibit

No. 207 for

identification, as of

2/17/09.)

MR. ANDES:

The same is true

as to the

following exhibit, which

from

314CMR4.00

Massachusetts

Surface Water Quality

Standards. The particular excerpt that’s

included

beyond

the first

page is

Section 4.06,

that’s the relevant section.

MS. TIPSORD: If there’s no objection,

we will

site —- we will enter the

Massachusetts 31CMR for

Division of Water

Pollution Control,

Massachusetts Water

Quality

Standards

Exhibit 208 -- excerpt.

MS. WILLIAMS:

And I would

just like

to request for the record that

with regard

Exhibit 207, that the

District

asked

Page

supplement

with

this

Page

Because

have

——

I think

I have

reviewed

these

regs,

and

think

what’s

on Page

relevant.

you

see

what

I’m saying?

starts

with

procedures

for

reclassification

and

then

cuts off.

Would

you

willing

do that?

MR. ANDES:

Sure.

I think

the

portion,

though,

that

we were

discussing

the

temporary

removal

designated

uses

section,

Section

2(b),

sewer

overflows.

And that’s

why

we didn’t

include

Pages

or 5

6 or

7. But

I can

certainly

provide

Page

MS.

TIPSORD:

If there’s

objection

entering

Exhibit

208,

it’s

entered.

Seeing

none,

will enter

it.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

208

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

MS.

DEXTER:

have no

further

questions

witnesses.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Anything

else for

Page

Mr.

Freedman?

MS.

DIERS:

Thank

you

very

much,

Mr.

Freedman.

THE

WITNESS:

Thank

you.

(WHEREUPON,

the witness

was

excused.)

MS.

TIPSORD:

That

moves

Dr.

Dennison.

Good afternoon,

Dr.

Dennison.

I will remind

you

you’ve been

sworn

least

twice

before,

so we will

not

again.

You are still

under

oath.

And with that,

we can

his

prefiled

testimony.

MR. ANDES:

Yes.

MS.

TIPSORD:

there’s

objection,

will

enter

Dr.

Dennison’s

prefiled

testimony

in this

section,

which

on behalf

the

District,

concerning

dissolved

oxygen

standards

proposed

for

protecting

aquatic

life

the

designated

Aquatic Life

Use A

Waters

and

Aquatic

Life

Use

Waters

of the

Chicago

Area

Water System.

will enter

that

as Exhibit 209,

there’s

objection.

Page

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

209.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

209

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

SAMUEL

DENNISON,

called

witness

herein,

having

been

previously

duly

sworn

and

having

testified, was

examined

and

testified

further as

follows:

EXAMINATION

MS.

DIERS:

Dr.

Dennison, I’m

going

to start

with

Question 2

your

prefiled

questions.

Can

you

please

describe

the

Winkler Titration

Method

mentioned on

Page

3 of

your

prefiled testimony?

The

Winkler

Titration Method

chemical procedure for

determining the

oxygen

concentration

a sample

water. We

use

the

method

given

standard methods

for

the

examination

water

and waste

water

method 4500—CC

azide

modification.

300

water

sample

that

collected and

chemically fixed

in the

field

brought

the

laboratory and

manually

titrated

Page

using

digital

buret.

Dissolved

oxygen

expressed

in milligrams

per

liter.

MR.

ANDES:

And

I have

copies

that

method.

This

is from

A Standard

Method

For

the

Examination

Water

and Waste

Water,

19th

edition,

1995.

It’s

the

excerpt

involving

method

4500—OC

azide

modification.

MS. TIPSORD:

there’s

objection,

will

enter

this,

Standard

Methods

For

the

Examination

of Water

and

Waste Water,

Exhibit

210.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

210.

(WHEREUPON,

certain

document

was

marked

Exhibit

No.

210

for

identification,

2/17/09.)

BY MS.

DIERS:

Question

“Why

are

you of

the

opinion

that

additional aeration

systems

will

not

increase

the

fish

population

the

CAWS?”

Because

the severe

aquatic

habitat

limitations

the Chicago

area waterway

system,

additional

aeration

systems

would

not

be expected

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Page

important.

Question

“What

would

you

recommend

for

CAWS

waters

with

respect

to dissolved

oxygen?”

I agree

with

the testimonies

Dr.

Mackey

and Melching

and Mr.

Freedman.

I’m

sorry,

could

you

repeat

that?

agree

with the

testimonies

Dr.

Mackey,

Dr. Melching

and Mr.

Freedman.

And

did

they

say

they

didn’t

have

recommendation

for

dissolved

oxygen?

MR.

ANDES:

Does

he have

characterize their

testimony?

MS.

DIERS:

I’m

asking

question.

can’t

remember

what

we talked

about in

December.

if he

can

answer

it,

fine.

he can’t,

fine.

THE

WITNESS:

Yes,

can’t

specific

than

say

that

should

wait for

these

studies

completed.

BY MS.

DIERS:

Once

these

studies

are

completed,

Page

the

District

going

make

recommendation

for

these

waters

the

Board?

don’t

know.

MR.

ANDES:

That

question

can

certainly

raised

Dr.

Grenado

when

raps

testimony

for

the

District.

MS.

DIERS:

Can

just

have

second?

MS.

TIPSORD:

Sure.

MS.

DIERS:

Thank

you.

have

nothing

further.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Anything

further

for

Dr.

Dennison?

MS.

DEXTER:

have

one

follow-up

question.

BY MS.

DEXTER:

This

morning, when

were

talking

Dr.

Nemura

about

what

Tarp

could

do,

there

was

some

uncertainty

about

whether

or not

Tarp

would

address

the

CSOs.

you

have

any

insight

that?

MR.

ANDES:

that

—-

THE

WITNESS:

Could

you

repeat

the

question?

didn’t

quite

catch

the

last

part

the

sentence.

Page

BY MS. DEXTER:

This

morning

when we

talked

Dr.

Nemura,

she

wasn’t certain

whether

Tarp

would

address

than

just gravity

CSOs if there

was —-

if it

would also

address those

from

the

stations.

you

know

about

Tarp,

employee

the

District,

that

you can

shed some

light on that?

MR.

ANDES:

So particularly

with

regard

to, say,

pump stations?

MS.

DEXTER:

Particularly

with

regard

the

uncertainty

that

Dr. Nemura

had this

morning,

about whether

Tarp would

than

just gravity.

MR.

ANDES:

Let

see

if I

can

help.

Is it

your understanding

that

Tarp

will

eliminate

all

the pump

stations

based on

your

understanding?

THE

WITNESS:

No.

MR. ANDES:

It might

reduce

the

discharges

from some

them?

THE WITNESS:

Certainly.

MR.

ANDES:

it going

eliminate

all

of the

CSO discharge

points?

THE

WITNESS:

It’s not

understand

that

Page

would.

MR.

ANDES:

But it

might

reduce

the

number

and

reduce

the

frequency

overflows

to some

extent?

THE

WITNESS:

Yes.

MR. ANDES:

Okay.

MS.

DEXTER:

guess

that’s

pretty

good.

MS.

TIPSORD:

Anything

else

for

Dr.

Dennison.

Thank

you

very

much

Dr.

Dennison.

(WHEREUPON,

the

witness

was

excused.)

MS. TIPSORD:

Let’s

off the

record

for

just

second.

(WHEREUPON,

discussion

was had

off

the

record.)

MS. TIPSORD:

Back

the

record.

Instead

of adjourning

this

hearing,

I’m

going

to continue

this

hearing

the record

March

3rd

and

4th,

both hearings

continued

here Chicago.

I’ve

talked

Mr.

Andes

off

the

record

and

his

witnesses

will

available

those two

days.

And

Page 91

plan

finish

with

the last

five

of the

district’s

witnesses

March

3rd

and

4th.

also

will have

a prehearing

conference

February

27th at

1:00

in the

afternoon

phone.

And we

will

discuss

at that

point

additional

hearings

April,

May, June

and

what

that schedule

is going

look

like.

I thank

you

all again

for

your

patience

and

for your

willingness

compromise

and

work

these

issues.

you

all weren’t

willing

as you

are

to do

this

stuff,

this

could

very much

difficult

time

for

all of

us.

thank

you

all

again.

And

with

that,

we will

continue

this

the

record,

and

are

recessed

for

today.

Thank

you.

And

I will

hearing

officer

order

laying

out

rooms,

time, phone

numbers,

all

that.

(WHICH

WERE

ALL

THE MATTERS

HEARD

IN THE

ABOVE-ENTITLED

CAUSE THIS

DATE.)

I—’

G’

CX)

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Page

my hand and

affix my

seal

of office

Chicago,

Illinois,

this

23rd

day

February,

2009.

Cook

County,

Illinois.

commission

expires

7/22/2010.

C.S.R.

Certificate

No.

84-4327

Page

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50:4

contrived56:6

72:2,3,4,7,12

combined

12:9

46:10

conducted

18:9

control 1:1,18

chemical36:21

46:17

57:11

components

18:18

11:5,8 14:6

47:1449:19

come5:963:3

15:7

conducting23:1

29:2249:10

84:17

comes86:24

composed66:22

32:17

81:20

chemically

coming

19:5

68:2

conference

91:3

controlled

44:7

84:23

30:5

64:16

comprehensive

Connecticut

cont’d

3:1

Chesapeake

commencement

33:21 34:9

57:14

conventional

7:10,22

9:1,4,5

92:8

53:9,15,16,23

connectivity

57:18

18:779:4

couunents46:4

65:8,21

64:21

Cook92:3,5

Chicago

1:6,13

commission

compromise

conservative

93:7

1:21

2:21 3:6

93:9

91:10

16:9

coordinated

13:8

14:9 15:3

common

40:5

concede

55:15

consider

26:15

32:21

17:12

19:3

52:18

concentration

34:5,8

45:19

copied6l:7

23:3,1627:11

communities

84:18

46:21

75:16

copies7:19

28:11

49:12,22

66:21

68:21

concentrations

considerable

13:12

80:13

55:564:21,24

75:5

14:11 20:5

31:20

85:3

65:16 71:1,18

community

75:3

consideration

copy2l:11

72:3,9,14

48:19

concept57:3

45:11 76:6

30:13

83:23

85:23

Comp 33:10

concern

47:6

considerations

Corp

38:18

90:22

93:1

company

32:17

concerning

39:18

76:6

correct

5:23,24

chronicl8:16

32:24

60:1483:19

considered

6:8 12:24

citation63:8,10

comparability

92:10

33:14,2434:2

13:23 15:11,12

63:13

68:5,10

65:6

conclude47:19

34:242:13

16:13,22,23

69:10

comparable

conclusion

considering

17:9

24:3

clarifyl5:629:8

55:656:12,16

47:1551:17

46:21

25:10,17,18

42:7 74:2,10

56:24

59:20,20

conclusions

49:8

constituents

33:2 40:17

Page 97

41:12,1342:11

77:19

48:950:5

19:2232:14

direction92:14

42:2254:17

currently34:12

51:15

41:1256:21

directly38:8

69:19

71:12

cuts 82:6

demonstration

72:7

63:15 92:22

correctly 24:13

Cuyahoga 63:24

47:3 48:3

developed 23:11 directs 40:23

counsel 92:20,21

64:14,22,23

Dennison

4:6

56:15 59:14

disagree 25:19

County 92:3,5

65:16

17:11 83:8,9

62:21

70:24

80:3,5

93:7

C.S.R93:11

84:6,12

88:12

71:15

discharge89:23

Creek 14:10

90:10,11

developing

discharges

49:1151:4,10

Dennison’s51:7

36:1557:22

11:1213:6

51:14

86:6

D4:1

83:17

development

16:1,17,22

criteria7:15

8:3

daily34:16

Denver60:21

32:4 34:10

28:18,19,23

9:19 10:11,12

dams42:3

depending

39:7

77:14,15

89:20

10:14,19 11:7

dash 16:14

79:12

Dexter2:23

discuss2l:17

12:1,2213:7

dashedl4:17

deposition46:19

27:18,18,20

91:5

16:18 19:23

data 17:2 29:14

DES 1:7

28:7 30:2

discussed44:21

23:1025:17,20

29:14,2431:18

describe53:12

37:1743:6

64:1875:19

26:2228:11,21

33:14,21,24

84:14

54:1563:6,17

86:2

35:11 36:24

48:13

51:14

described 22:21

65:14,24

76:16 discusses 12:6,7

37:239:13,24

54:13

38:17 39:10

76:17

78:8,11

discussing82:9

40:9,24 41:12

DATE91:23

44:21

50:24

78:24 79:6,22

discussion39:10

41:2242:9

dayl:1493:2

describes38:18

80:1282:22

51:865:666:4

43:345:16,18

days 17:490:24

describing72:16

88:13,1589:1

90:16

48:12,16 56:22

day-to-day

description

89:10 90:7

dissolved

7:6

59:14,2162:20

32:19

52:1272:10,11

diel8:14

9:2410:18

62:22 63:1,4

death 19:19

descriptions

Diel6O:17

11:13,18

12:4

67:2,11,14,16

DEBORAH

50:23

DIERS2:17

12:12,1513:7

75:11 77:9,10

2:16

designate49:15

31:5 43:16

14:7,11 17:2

79:7,11

December87:16

designated8:3

45:3,1246:5

18:21 19:2,6

criterion7:10

decide66:23

58:14 82:10

51:20 54:22

20:5 22:13

7:11 11:237:8

decided42:16

83:21

63:22 83:2

23:1024:3,10

41:4 42:18

decrease 44:19

designation

66:5

84:11 85:17

24:18,20 25:21

critical64:5

deem43:18

designations

87:14,23

88:7

29:1

32:3,22

cross-examine

deep5o:22

49:18

88:9

35:17,19 36:15

61:15

52:12,13,17

designedl4:24

differ65:17,18

38:6,21

44:19

cruxl7:6

56:5

15:2339:15

differences

60:3,1774:21

CSO11:1213:5

Deer39:8

66:21 68:20

38:11

75:3,10,20

14:20,21 15:8

deficiencies

desfred27:8

different

18:20

78:3,11

79:1

15:11,1516:12

31:15,2136:4

detailed46:15

19:123:22

83:1985:1

16:17 19:5

deficient56:21

detectl9:1

25:13 32:6

86:11,1687:4

44:11 77:21

defme35:937:7

determine22:18

41:16 42:1,14

87:11

79:20 89:23

41:15 58:14

22:19,22

23:5

63:4 70:24

distinction

CSOs14:19

69:2371:8

24:1,2,1425:8

71:2,3,16,19

64:20

15:7,21,22

defmed57:5

27:12 39:15

71:20 75:8,8

district3:10

16:6,21 17:8

69J2,12

41:10 49:21

75:20

11:15 23:1

29:21 56:9

defmes

55:11

determined

differs 49:12

29:3,9,17,19

77:19 88:19

defining5o:18

25:16,23

26:1

64:2

32:21 33:8

89:4

52:10 69:20

determining

difficult 53:18

60:21 75:23

CTE33:10

defmition35:11

24:625:20

61:191:13

76:481:24

currentl4:16

70:1

40:1684:17

digital85:1

83:1988:1,6

17:11 53:6

demonstrate

develop 17:23

direct 32:24

89:7

Page

district’s 11:23

drop

19:6

92:19,20

even 10:14

13:22 20:10,11

14:3,22

16:3

Drs86:2

emptying

56:6

16:16 17:4

20:13,22,23

18:319:11

dry44:18

end9:17

48:1851:7,10

21:2,7,16,21

91:2

due 12:9 43:19

engineer

52:17

event44:5

29:7,8

30:17

divert

15:1

duly 5:15 30:11

engineering

events 7:8,17

30:18,20

58:18

Division8l:19

31:284:8

31:18 33:7

13:5 14:12,24

58:20,2260:7

document8:1

92:10

Engineers38:18

16:1628:4

60:8,10,19

8:10,18,22

9:6

duration

18:12

enormous

15:9

79:20

61:22

62:2

9:12 20:12

during7:5,7

44:11

ever80:2

81:6,8,12,21

21:1

22:4,7,9

28:329:3,18

enough35:10

everyl5:14

81:24 82:16,19

30:19

39:3

54:5

86:12

36:2

65:13

16:11

83:24 84:1,3

58:12,18,21

dynamics44:4

ensure27:4

everyone5:2

85:11,12,14

60:1,9 61:3,16

D.L 20:8

enter

8:7

20:10

evidence

48:13

exist 64:22

61:24 62:6

58:10 81:5,18

49:4,5 50:10

existance 46:16

67:16

80:16

82:17 83:17,23

52:20

existed55:24

81:782:18

E1:172:94:1,8

85:9

exact67:1069:9

existing4l:19

84:2 85:13

earlier

45:24

entered

62:6,9

exactly 29:11

exists

64:14

documentation

64:19

82:16

68:9

expect73:3,6,9

50:24 63:13

early 48:11,13

entering

82:16

examination

expected

85:24

documents

East 2:12,20

entire

22:4,6,9

5:17 31:4

experience

59:2370:12

easy3s:4

23:1655:7

84:10,2085:5

17:1355:20

doing 18:1

42:24

ecological

39:3

entitled 58:12

85:10 92:9

72:10

53:7

75:4

60:2

examined5:15

expert54:10,21

dominated

56:9

economic

32:7

environmental

31:3 84:8

experts 35:1

64:15

edition85:6

2:4,5,11,19

examplelo:10

52:21,23

72:11

done6:918:6

effectl4:18

17:1927:19

14:723:15

expires93:9

23:925:758:3

76:24

32:7

24:1938:17

explainlo:17,19

61:12

65:21

effective39:6

envision45:13

48:11 50:17

13:18 34:18

78:20,21

86:16

effectively43:3

EPA31:7,16

51:3

52:7

50:13

72:6

downstream

effects

38:20

32:13

47:2,7

57:21 58:2

exposed

18:13

19:8

39:443:19

47:11,2049:13

62:13 77:3,7

19:18

Dr 17:11 26:11

4519 76:21

49:24

58:12

78:18 86:22

express

12:17

26:12

31:20,23

77:24

67:16

68:9

exampless7:7

77:23

32:9 37:24

effluent 1:5 56:8

EPA’s 10:12

62:12

78:6

expressed

34:24

38:1 44:22

64:15

49:15 52:1

exceeded

7:11

85:2

51:6,7,7

54:5

efforts

49:6

establish 49:10

excerpt

8:1 38:6

extent 43:10

54:13,16,21

eggs39:5

established4l:7

43:24

60:13

90:4

64:1875:18

eitherl9:19

79:4

81:14,2185:6

extra2l:12

76:9 77:4 83:8

48:9

56:20,21

establishing

excitement

8:7

extreme

44:14

83:9,17

84:12

elements64:13

31:11

excuse33:6

87:6,9,988:5

eliminate 14:18

establishment

63:1668:3

88:12,17

89:3

15:14 16:5,17

38:24

excused30:8

fact 19:12

28:22

89:11 90:10,11

16:21 29:21

evaluate 23:4,13

83:6 90:13

49:6

75:17

draft

50:22 58:7

89:16,22

29:13 45:20

exemption

5:23

factor

55:24,24

58:12,17

eliminated

55:19

exhibit

4:10,11

factors

24:18

drafting57:12

16:11

evaluated43:3

4:12,13,14,15

39:21 42:1

dramatic44:13

elimination

evaluating

14:5

4:16,17,18,19

46:10,14,21

64:17

11:12

28:20

4:205:67:21

55:2277:4,6

draw 37:2 1

embodied 76:7

Evaluation

8:8,9,11,23

86:18

Drive2:203:4

employee89:6

86:22

9:11,13

10:1

failed35:9

51:18

Page

56:17,23

67:20

fairly59:18

fall

7:7

44:14

52:19

78:4,12

familiar

16:2

feasible

41:24

February 1:14

91:4 93:2

federal

8:19

feel23:7

55:18

56:14,16,20

65:9,12

feeling

36:1

49:5

felt

32:11

48:2

few

27:23

field

18:11

32:6

57:16

84:23

figure

13:12,21

14:2

Figures

29:5

file

61:11

fill

14:23

filling

56:7

Final

60:15

fmd40:3 69:4

fme

77:18

87:17

87:18

fmish

91:1

firm33:7,9

first

18:2

20:3

22:18

24:1

25:7,11,13

27:22

31:2

40:16

47:9

49:7

55:2

66:6

80:16

81:15

fish 17:7,14

18:4

18:15

19:1,12

20:4,17,21

22:15,19 23:2

23:6,14,19,21

24:1,6,10,14

24:22

25:9

26:12,14,14

27:15

28:14,14

33:13,23

39:5

39:5,7,8 48:19

60:16

62:22

85:21

86:1

fit

51:15

five

78:2

91:1

fixed

84:23

flags

49:2

flipping

24:8

flooding

44:9

flow

12:14

15:10

37:23

38:1,19

41:18

42:3

44:4,14,15

46:16,19

48:1

56:4,5,7,8

64:15

flowing

72:13

flows

15:3

44:12

fluctuations

38:3

44:15

60:17

focal

77:11

focused

36:3

17:22

40:11

42:6

50:12

54:3

57:19

66:2

73:10

79:21

following

81:12

follows

5:16

31:3

38:9

84:9

follow-up

26:9

88:13

follow-ups

17:20

food

27:8,11,14

foolish

40:7

foregoing

92:12

foreseeable

47:8

fork

49:12,22

forth

45:24

found

51:12

74:17

foundation

37:5

46:9

frame

70:19

FREDRIC

3:8

Freedman

4:5

30:10

31:1

40:11

59:1

61:18

66:3

73:17

74:14

83:1,3

87:6,9

Freedman’s

30:16

frequency

18:12

90:3

fresh

10:12

from

8:2

9:1,20

14:23

16:21,24

18:13,15

19:5

19:9

20:8,20

28:2,14

3 1:18

37:21

38:7

43:24

44:8

48:7,7

49:13

58:7,12

60:13

64:2,16

67:8

67:13,15

68:3

69:15

70:20

77:7,8

80:16

80:23

81:12

85:4

89:5,20

front

22:5

41:2

full6l:12

66:6

functions

75:4

further

5:16

30:3

66:18,20

76:23

82:22

84:9

88:10,11

furthermore

51:12

future

47:8

G2:6

84:6

gaining23:2

Garcia

32:9

38:1

51:7

64:18

75:18

76:977:4

general

26:24

34:16

35:6

63:5

66:5,20

67:4,11,14

68:19

69:12,21

69:23

70:2,23

71:15,20

72:2

72:13,19

73:2

73:4,13

74:3

74:20,23

75:10

generalization

53:7

geometry

64:9

getting

15:20

43:7

71:14

GIRARD

2:6

gist22:12

give

43:11

67:10

given

59:17,18

84:19

92:15

gives

68:9

giving43:9,10

77:16

5:2,2

10:1

17:20

18:1

24:6

35:16

59:2

63:2

70:11

76:15

90:14

goal

10:24

Gobies

21:24

Goby

21:22

goes

28:10

80:23

going

5:9,11

15:1,24

17:18

19:16

28:11,23

29:15

31:7

35:16,18

55:11

61:21

65:4,7

66:5,15

68:23

76:18

81:5

84:12

88:1

89:22

90:19

91:7

good

5:1,19

55:13

83:9

90:8

gradient

22:13

57:10

gradients

22:15

grafts

52:12

Grand

2:12

gravity

11:12

14:19,20

15:3

15:6,21,22

16:6,21

29:21

89:4,13

Grenado

88:5

growing

57:17

growth

18:16

19:20

27:6

39:7

guess

15:19

25:5

34:19

37:19

40:4 41:1

45:15

48:1

50:2

54:18

56:13

58:1

60:24

64:4

71:8

76:3

90:7

guidance

40:4

40:23

41:2

42:1

58:8

H 4:8

habitat

18:3

23:1,4,5,8

25:8

31:24

32:18,24

33:11,13,17,20

33:22

34:2,11

36:10,19

37:4

37:23,2439:20

41:17

46:6,11

48:21,22

52:22

53:6,16,24

54:13,18

85:22

86:4,22

habitats

44:18

Halsted

14:9

hand

93:1

happen

15:21

16:10

29:11,20

29:22

happening

46:17

happily

8:6

harming

77:19

hate

53:20

having5:14,15

31:2

38:19

51:1

73:7

84:7

84:8

HEARD

91:22

hearing

1:17

2:3

90:19,20

91:18

92:12,17

hearings

90:2

91:6

held

1:11

help

6:15

13:11

46:7

89:14

helps

38:7

Page

100

hence 36:24

55:18 56:14,21

inconsistent

intermediate

40:12,13

41:9

herl3:2246:3

58:765:3

42:22

66:24

42:743:6,13

hereto

92:22

68:12

76:7,22

increase

85:20

intermediately

50:16 52:3,7

hereunto92:24

IEPA’s49:3

86:1

52:11

53:11 61:1,5

high24:10

38:5

52:14

independent

interpret47:15

63:1,17

65:15

higher 19:9

ILL

1:8

47:24

50:4

interpretation

66:16

69:6

41:20 42:18

Iffinois

1:1,14

indicate

9:18

49:20

74:2,3,9

80:5

64:13

1:18,21

2:11

53:2

introduce80:15

81:22

88:7

highest

25:14

2:14,21

3:6

indicates 10:21

introduced

89:4,13

90:15

45:22

31:7 47:2,6,11

10:2411:11

52:21

justification

highlighted

47:20

49:9,13

12:10

introduction

36:2,450:9

31:1538:11

49:15,2452:1

indicating54:5

61:262:3

51:19

highlights

38:8

55:7

66:5

indication

12:20 investigation

justified

35:14

highly

12:11

68:20 69:13,15

12:21

49:17

justify36:1

him45:3

70:1 71:21,23

indigenous

12:8

involve25:20

hold 61:21,23

72:23

73:1

28:2

involved

32:16

hope

68:23

92:1,5

93:2,8

indirectly

92:22

32:17,19

33:6

lull 18:15

hours

22:1

ifiustrating

63:1

individual

14:24

46:7

kiflflig

17:7

hugel6:21

impact28:23

15:11,15

55:23

involvement

kills 17:14

28:14

hundredl5:10

37:1438:12,15

59:6

32:24

kind4O:742:3

15:15

16:12

impacted44:4

industrial73:5

involves39:17

52:8

57:15,17

hydraulic

32:8

impacts

12:9

Influence 20:17

involving

85:7

59:17

63:2

44:4 64:18

32:7 37:10

information

9:7

isolated

74:23

65:10,10,11

hydraulics

56:6

39:9

43:19

18:19

19:22

issue6:11

50:14

kinds42:475:8

76:10

44:2077:22

23:231:17

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32:14 34:6,8

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11:20

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32:5

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20:18

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69:22

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26:13

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69:9

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42:19

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instances

10:11

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32:4

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20:21

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14:12

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18:9

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Page

101

large 20:18

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91:19

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62:4

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72:12

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53:1 54:1

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18:21 22:2

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35:2

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33:2

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24:2,6,11

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19:4 44:13

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13:8 29:23

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14:21

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44:7

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22:24 24:11

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31:20

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24:9

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74:2

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44:5 45:9

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90:2 1

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20:8

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4:9

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9:18

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79:17 80:14

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35:10

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43:4

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29:14

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29:15

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29:3 47:24

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77:9

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51:6

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44:22

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2:7,8,9

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60:16

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76:21 77:1,3

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84:14

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22:20

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84:19

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60:20

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3:9

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64:16

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33:13,23

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67:5

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39:22

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53:8,8

Page

102

milligram

7:12

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7:13

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34:17

minimum

34:17

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57:14

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13:20

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27:23

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70:18

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69:10,11

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43:8

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11:23

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15:20

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84:21

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42:4

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7:3

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61:5

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32:3

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29:16

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39:5

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30:5 65:1

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36:16

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12:13

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71:13

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72:17

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72:13

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64:8

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72:24

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92:23

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14:21

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Page

103

outlined 31:12

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position

36:11

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39:6

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55:16 previous 50:3

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Page 104

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variations37:24

13:414:315:2

14:12 16:16

43:1944:4,12

19:10

38:1

17:24,2419:8

17:23 27:24

44:2445:4,8,9

urban73:5

various76:20

19:920:632:3

28:3,17,19,22

45:13,2046:1

use 8:18 18:8

81:1

32:5 33:5,13

29:23

43:19

46:8,10,21

25:10,15,17

veryl6:917:2

33:2335:4

44:4,12,24

78:2,15,21,23

32:1434:16

18:2026:14

36:2338:2,12

45:4,8,9,14,20

79:19

35:6,13,20

30:535:3

38:15,23

39:22

46:1,8,10,22

wetlands74:24

36:18,24,24

51:13

55:13,14

40:20

41:18,20

78:3,8,15,21

we’1153:23

61:9

37:1,739:14

56:11

59:19

41:2142:17,20

78:2379:19

63:12

40:8,2141:4,8

64:1571:19

43:1244:6,7

web27:11,14

we’re5:913:16

42:17,1945:18

83:290:11

44:11,14,17

website7:22

33:1661:21

45:2247:3,14

91:12

45:1746:17

weekl7:4

62:378:24

49:10,15,16,18

VI10:3,4

50:1,1452:2

weigh3l:10

what-ifl4:5

50:151:16

view48:2

53:855:8

weil6:167:9,12

29:13

52:1 58:13

viewed54:12

57:24

58:15

8:15 10:21

WHEREOF

62:1363:5

violatel6:18

59:860:1

21:2422:18

92:24

66:5,20 67:4

violated7:15

61:19 64:1

23:6

25:5 27:5 while

74:1

67:11,1468:19

12:12

67:477:880:6

28:1032:2

whole24:17

69:12,21,23

violationsl2:8

80:1781:13,19

35:2236:13

27:1154:1

70:2,23

71:15

volume

16:21

81:20

83:23

37:20

44:1

56:1

92:10

72:2,2073:2,4

84:18,20,20,22

49:3 50:16

Williams2:16

73:13

74:3,20

85:5,5,10,10

54:1 55:14

5:18 6:14,16

74:2475:11

Wacker2:203:4

waters35:21

56:1961:9

6:19,237:1

83:21,2284:18

waitl3:2049:3

36:1245:1,5

66:1667:12

8:249:9,22

used9:619:21

53:2286:19

45:1447:12,21

71:1386:15

10:1613:14

19:2229:13

87:21

50:2163:5

went62:15

15:1816:19

57:1059:22

walled50:22

66:2068:19

were5:216:5

17:1521:5

69:2372:6

wails5l:152:8

69:12,21,24

14:13

17:23

22:3,1630:24

USEPA38:22

52:13,15,18

70:272:13,23

23:1627:7,22

40:1041:6

40:23

58:18

53:13

56:5

73:2,4,13 74:3

29:17,18

33:12

60:23

61:9,13

uses5:236:2,7

wantll:14

74:4,20,24

36:138:439:9

66:1,9,14

7:5 8:3 28:11

17:21 22:9

75:1 80:18,21

44:20,21

48:23

69:17,20 70:13

Page

109

70:16

71:10

73:15,22

74:7

74:13,18

76:13

78:14

79:21,23

80:22

81:22

William’s

81:6

willing

55:15

76:4

82:6

91:11

willingness

91:9

Wmkler

84:14

84:16

withdraw

61:9

witness

4:3

5:14

9:3,16

10:4,5

14:1

15:12,17

16:7,13

17:16

18:2

21:15

22:11

26:20

28:9

30:7,11

31:2

37:15

42:12,21

43:1

43:9

45:6

46:3

50:16

52:5

54:8

58:1,9

59:3

61:15

62:5,11

66:12

70:14

71:7

73:14,19

74:16

79:14

80:4,10

83:4,5

84:7

87:19

88:21

89:18,21,24

90:5,12

92:9,9

92:24

witnesses

82:23

90:23

91:2

worded

55:13

wording

52:9

words

69:9

work

46:7 91:10

working

33:7

wouldn’t

18:14

29:24

77:16

wraps

27:22

Wreitburg

20:8

wrong

69:10

Wyoming

60:22

yeah 43:22

66:13

67:6

68:4

years

55:20

86:12

young

39:8

19:2076:19

80:23

1.0

79:12

1.7

7:12

79:11

1:0091:4

100

1:13,19

16:5

1021

2:12

1147:1

11-500

1:20

116 5:6

13:22

29:7

1187:21

12 23:17

31:14

33:20

46:23

47:4

1331:1449:7,7

1300

2:20

60:3

62:8,18

1651:21

17th

1:14

1855:1

1957:1

19th 85:6

19276

2:13

1986

10:12

1994 20:8

1995

85:6

229:5

47:5

55:4

82:1,3,13

82:14

84:13

2(b)

82:11

2-025

1:14

2/17/09

8:13

9:15 20:15

21:4

30:22

58:24

60:12

81:10

82:21

84:5

85:16

4:12

6:21

200

4:10 8:8,9

8:12

9:23

10:1

14:21

2001

14:13

20:21

29:4,11

29:17

2005 86:12

2007

86:13

2009

1:15

93:2

201

4:11 8:14,23

9:11,13

202 4:12

20:10

20:11,14

21:7

21:10,12,16,21

68:12

203

4:13

20:22

20:23

21:3

204

4:14 30:18

30:18,21

2054:15

58:18

58:20,23

206

4:16 60:7,8

60:11

62:2

207 4:17

60:19

61:22

81:6,9

81:24

208

4:18

81:21

82:16,20

209

4:19

83:24

84:1,4

214:13

210 4:20

85:11

85:12,15

217-782-5544

2:15

23rd93:2

24th

14:12

2563:23

26.0802.03-3

8:4

27th91:4

37:2

17:1

31:8

37:20

80:23

84:15

85:18

86:8

3rd 90:21

91:2

4:14

9:20

300

84:22

301

1:9

302 1:9

302.105

68:13

302.203

74:23

302105

69:1,5

70:7

303

1:9

304

1:9

314:5

11:10

31CMR81:19

312-357-1313

3:7

312-795-3707

2:22

312-814-4925

1:22

314CMR4.00

81:12

32 16:24

58:12

351:82:20

55:20

68:12

3758:12

3880:17

4 11:11,21

13:13

13:21

29:6

34:14

37:11,19

37:20

55:2

66:4

67:21

68:1,2

72:1

78:1

86:7,8

4th

90:21 91:2

4.06 81:16

4400 3:5

4500-OC

84:20

85:7

46480:18

54:4

6:15

10:1

13:12,21

17:1

28:6,8

37:20

:21,22

66:4

66:6,7

82:13

87:2

584:15

10:2 35:16

82:13

604:16

60601

1:21

60601-2110

2:21

60606

3:6

12:6

62794-9276

2:14

77:2

18:22

22:1

29:2

37:9

82:13

7/22/2010

93:9

84:10

814:17

824:18

844:6,19

84-4327

93:11

854:20

94:11

29:6

43:17

9th

14:12

9:00

1:15

X4:1,8

zero

7:7

9:19

17:3