1
ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
December 4, 2008
2
3
4 ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL
)
PROTECTION AGENCY,
)
5
)
Complainant, )
6
) AC 07-30
vs.
) (IEPA No. 375-06-AC)
7
) (Administrative
BOBBY G. MYERS and DONALD ) Citation)
8 D. MYERS,
)
)
9
Respondents. )
10
11
12
13
14
Hearing held
December 4, 2008
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
REPORTER: Bobbi L. Hamlin, CCR, RMR
Illinois License #084-002797
22
Keefe Reporting Company
23
11 North 44th Street
Belleville, Illinois 62226
24
1
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
December 4, 2008
2
3
4 ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL
)
PROTECTION AGENCY,
)
5
)
Complainant, )
6
) AC 09-9
vs.
)
7
)
BOBBY G. MYERS and DONALD )
8 D. MYERS,
)
)
9
Respondents. )
10
11
12
13
APPEARANCES:
14
15 For Complainant:
Illinois Environmental Protection Agency
16
by Michelle M. Ryan, Esq.
17
For Respondents:
18
Law Offices of Wes Wilkins
by Wes Wilkins, Esq.
19
20
21
22
23
24
2
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
JUDGE WEBB: Good afternoon.
2
My name is Carol Webb. I'm a hearing
3 officer with the Pollution Control Board.
4
This is the hearing for AC 07-30 IEPA vs.
5 Bobby and Donald Myers.
6
It is December 4th and we are beginning at
7 12:30 p.m.
8
I'll note for the record that there are no
9 members of the public present. Members of the public
10 are allowed to provide public comment if they so choose.
11
In this case the agency alleges that
12 Respondents violated Sections 21 (p) (1) and (p) (3) of
13 the Act at a site located at 3050 Mount Glen Road in
14 rural Cobden, Union County.
15
The Pollution Control Board members will
16 make the final decision in this case. My purpose is to
17 conduct the hearing in a neutral and orderly manner so
18 that we have a clear record of the proceedings.
19
I will also assess the credibility of any
20 witnesses on the record at the end of hearing.
21
This hearing was noticed pursuant to the
22 Act and the Board's rules and will be conducted pursuant
23 to Section 101.600 through 101.623 of the Board's
24 procedural rules.
3
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
At this time I will ask the parties to,
2 please, make their appearances on the record.
3
MS. RYAN: Michelle Ryan, Special Assistant
4 Attorney General for the Illinois EPA. And I have my
5 formal entry of appearance here of the order and 10
6 copies, one of which is for you.
7
JUDGE WEBB: Thank you.
8
MR. WILKINS: My name is Wes Wilkins,
9 attorney at law, here in Anna, Illinois and I represent
10 the Respondents, Bobby G. Myers and Donald E. Myers.
11
JUDGE WEBB: Thank you.
12
Are there any preliminary matters to
13 discuss on the record?
14
MS. RYAN: Not for me.
15
MR. WILKINS: None from the Respondents.
16
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Ms. Ryan, would you
17 like to make an opening statement?
18
MS. RYAN: Yes.
19
We believe that the evidence today will
20 show that on December 5th, 2006 open dumping resulting
21 in litter and opening burning occurred at the facility
22 located at 300 Mount Glen Road in rural Cobden, Union
23 County and that the two Respondents here are responsible
24 parties with respect to that open dumping and that there
4
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 are no defenses to be presented today that would relieve
2 that liability.
3
JUDGE WEBB: Thank you.
4
MS. RYAN: Thank you.
5
JUDGE WEBB: Mr. Wilkins, would you like to
6 make any opening statement today?
7
MR. WILKINS: No, Thank you. I would waive
8 any opening statement at this time.
9
JUDGE WEBB: All right.
10
Ms. Ryan, you may present your case.
11
MS. RYAN: We call Garrison Gross.
12
JUDGE WEBB: Would the court reporter,
13 please, swear in the witness.
14
15
GARRISON GROSS, produced, sworn, and examined
16 as a witness on behalf of the Complainant, testified and
17 deposed as follows:
18
DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MS. RYAN:
20
Q. Can you state your name for the record,
21 please?
22
A. Garrison Gross.
23
Q. What is your job?
24
A. I'm a field inspector for the Illinois
5
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 Environmental Protection Agency.
2
Q. How many years have you been a field
3 inspector for the Illinois EPA?
4
A. Four years.
5
Q. What are your duties as a field inspector?
6
A. Inspecting opening dumps, tire storage
7 facility, hazardous waste sites for the agency.
8
Q. Can you estimate how many inspections
9 you've conducted over the four years you've worked for
10 EPA?
11
A. Approximately 250.
12
Q. What's your educational background?
13
A. I have a bachelor's degree in safety
14 engineering from Murray State University and bachelor's
15 degree in environmental biology from Charleston,
16 Illinois.
17
Q. Have you had any additional training
18 related to your job following your education?
19
A. Yes, we have training on a regular basis
20 for hazardous waste.
21
I have a pesticides applicator's license
22 that's required by the state for mosquito abatement.
23
Q. Are you familiar with the facility located
24 at 50350 Mount Glen Road in Cobden?
6
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
A. Yes.
2
Q. And where is that property located with
3 respect to the Village of Cobden?
4
A. West of Cobden, east of 127.
5
Q. How did you determine who owns that
6 property?
7
A. I came to the assessor's office and pulled
8 a tax record for that piece of property based on maps
9 that I had with the plat book map and also evidence from
10 the site, vehicles.
11
Q. And based on your review at the assessor's
12 office and the information were you able to obtain at
13 the site who did you determine were owners of the
14 property?
15
A. Bob Myers, Donald Myers, Harold Myers and
16 Barbara -- is it -- Cerney.
17
Q. How many inspections have you conducted at
18 that site?
19
A. Three.
20
Q. I'm going to show you what I've marked as
21 Exhibit 1 for evidence. Can you tell me do you
22 recognize that document?
23
A. Yes.
24
Q. What is it?
7
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
A. It's an inspection report conducted on
2 December the 5th, 2006 by me.
3
Q. Can you look through the pages there for me
4 and make sure that they're all present?
5
A. There's a blank page that should not be in
6 there.
7
Q. Let's tear that out then. Oh, actually,
8 hold on, let's not tear that out, because I think it's
9 just a blank page in the middle of photos?
10
A. Appears to be.
11
This is a -- page eight. This is page
12 nine.
13
Q. There you go. If you have a blank page it
14 doesn't belong in there.
15
JUDGE WEBB: I don't have one.
16
MR. WILKINS: Okay. I don't either.
17 BY MS. RYAN:
18
Q. You got lucky.
19
A. Appears to be.
20
Q. Would you like one that's not torn apart
21 now? Staples aren't as strong as they should be.
22
Is this a fair, accurate and complete copy
23 of your report?
24
A. Yes.
8
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
Q. Can you describe this property, generally?
2
A. What it looks like?
3
Q. Yeap.
4
A. It's appear to be an old farm, portions of
5 the fields appear to be grown up. About 79 acres based
6 on the plat book and also based on records from the
7 assessor's office. Covered with old vehicles and tires
8 and domicile waste and other types of construction
9 demolition waste on the site.
10
Q. Who took the photographs that are attached
11 to this report?
12
A. I did.
13
Q. What do they show? If you would like to
14 show one of 14 of the bottom of photo pages.
15
A. Photo to number one was what appeared to be
16 excavated pit that contained waste metal and waste
17 materials and demolition waste.
18
And photo number two was an area located
19 just off of the dirt road that had been constructed that
20 had waste tires, waste furniture and more domicile
21 waste.
22
Photo number three is this newly
23 constructed road. This road was -- did not look like
24 this at the time of the last inspection or the previous
9
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 inspection. Lot of trees had been were grown up on
2 either side of -- side and all of those trees had been
3 either knocked down or pushed up into a pile and
4 appeared to have been burned.
5
Photo number four was an area where used
6 tires had been burned and there's tire beads, tire
7 carcasses, tire residue on the ground from the burning
8 of those tires. Looked -- looks like there's a bunch
9 there according to that picture.
10
Q. Can you give me an estimate of how many a
11 bunch would constitute?
12
A. I don't know, more than a hundred.
13
Q. Okay.
14
A. Photo number five is just a closer
15 depiction of -- of those tire beads and tire carcasses
16 that were burned.
17
Photo number six, evidence that there --
18 landscape waste had been burned with the tires. Appears
19 that maybe it had been pushed over with a bulldozer,
20 could have been could have been blown down by the wind,
21 but pushed up into a pile and set on fire.
22
Photo number seven is a waste vehicle.
23 There's no tires on the front of the vehicle and the
24 hood is missing. It's got waste tires in the back of
10
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 it.
2
Photo number eight is a brushy area
3 containing many, many tires. I think the -- I think my
4 estimation was approximately 2000 tires at the site.
5
Photo number nine was a -- appears to be a
6 box trailer, lot of demolition waste, waste tires coming
7 out of -- spilling out of the back end of that.
8
Photo number 10 is demolition waste, waste
9 metal, blue unidentifiable things are -- I don't know
10 what those are.
11
Photo number 11 is a waste car grown up in
12 weeds and the window was down on it, so it was exposing
13 the interior to the rain.
14
Photo number 12 was a waste vehicle.
15
Photo number 13 appeared to be a waste
16 mobile home, was not connected to electricity, was not
17 leveled. It did not appear that anyone was living in
18 it.
19
Photo number 14 more waste tires.
20
Photo number 15 is a waste vehicle turned
21 on it's side and partially demolished on the top.
22
Photo 16 was a track hoe.
23
Photo 17 is a vehicle that had a current
24 license plate and it had a cutting torch in the back of
11
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 it.
2
Q. Can I stop you for one second?
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. Going back to photo 16 --
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. -- behind the track hoe, is that same
7 mobile home that's visible in the previous photo, number
8 13?
9
A. Yes, it appears to be. I only recall one
10 mobile home being at the site at that location.
11
Photo 18, more waste tires overgrown in
12 vegetation.
13
Photo 19, photograph of vehicle, engine
14 components dumped on the ground.
15
Photo 20 was another waste vehicle with the
16 front end damage and appears that the windows out of the
17 side of it.
18
Photo 21 is a waste farm vehicle overgrown
19 in vegetation.
20
Photo 22 is a waste vehicle, door open, no
21 front end on it, headlight -- headlight assembly all
22 gone grown up in weeds an bushes.
23
Photo 23 is a waste vehicle, some kind of
24 industrial loader is what it appears to be, also grown
12
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 up in weeds bushes and trees.
2
Photo 24, I think the Ford Taurus is the
3 waste vehicle in the picture. The red truck was not
4 considered to be waste. The Ford Taurus is missing a
5 front wheel on it.
6
Q. Before you turn the page back, in
7 photograph 23 can you identify what that whitish object
8 is in front of the loader that you indicated was in the
9 photo?
10
A. It appears to be a spray tank for
11 herbicides or pesticides is what it appears to be.
12
Photo 25 was waste metal and waste tires.
13 There's a white appliance out there to the right-hand
14 side, looks like a refrigerator or something.
15
Photo 26 was the roadway leading back down
16 to the old garage building.
17
Photo 27 was standing down at the bottom of
18 the hill facing north depicting the change in how the --
19 how the area of the trees had been knocked down and the
20 road fixed up.
21
And 28 is another photo from a different
22 angle of the waste metal and tires that's depicted in
23 25.
24
Q. Okay. Now, photograph 28, your comments to
13
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 the side, indicate that there's an old house in the
2 picture. Is that that house?
3
A. To the right next to the pine tree.
4
Q. Okay.
5
A. It did not appear that anyone was living in
6 the house at the time.
7
Q. Okay. Do these photographs accurately
8 depict what you see at the property on December 5th,
9 2006?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. Does Illinois -- when was this report
12 generated?
13
A. Some time after December the 5th. It
14 usually takes us about two weeks to a month to -- to get
15 an inspection report together and sent up to
16 Springfield.
17
Q. Does Illinois EPA keep these reports in the
18 regular course of it's business?
19
A. Yes.
20
MS. RYAN: At this time I would move
21 Exhibit 1 into evidence.
22
MR. WILKINS: No objection.
23
JUDGE WEBB: Exhibit 1 is admitted into
24 evidence.
14
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
MS. RYAN: And I have nothing further at
2 this point.
3
JUDGE WEBB: Mr. Wilkins?
4
MR. WILKINS: Thank you.
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. WILKINS:
6
Q. Mr. Gross, you said you made three site
7 visits; is that right? If I understood you correctly?
8
A. Yes. Yes.
9
Q. The first one, if I'm correct from your
10 notes, was in May of '05 and then the second one was
11 December of 2006; is that correct?
12
A. I believe so.
13
Q. Okay. When was the third one?
14
A. I don't have the inspection report in front
15 of me.
16
Q. Okay. When was the third site visit?
17
A. I think that was in 2008.
18
Q. Okay. Did you generate a report based upon
19 that inspection?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. Okay. Has that been supplied to Ms. Ryan;
22 do you know?
23
A. I believe so.
24
Q. Okay. When you went on 2000 -- the site
15
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 visit on 2008 what had changed, if anything?
2
MS. RYAN: I object to relevance. We're
3 discussing what the violations were in '05 or 2006,
4 December 5th, 2006, and anything that's happened since
5 then isn't relevant to whether violations occurred or --
6
JUDGE WEBB: I would like to concentrate on
7 this inspection report, but I'll give you a little
8 leeway if you think -- if you're making -- if you're
9 leading up to something relevant.
10 BY MR. WILKINS:
11
Q. Okay. All right.
12
A. Can you restate your question, please?
13
Q. What, if anything, did you see that had
14 changed between 2006 and the visit in 2008?
15
A. This is from recollection, because I don't
16 have the inspections in front of me.
17
Q. Yes, sir. Uh-huh.
18
A. But I believe that more of the waste
19 vehicles and metal have -- have -- had been removed from
20 the site. The tires had been moved out of the bushes
21 and weeds and congregated or thrown up gathered up into
22 a large pile, not -- not that all of them were in the
23 large pile, but there was a large pile being created.
24
Q. Now, you stated that when you went to the
16
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 to the site that that's how you determined who the
2 owners of the property were or that was one of the ways;
3 is that correct?
4
A. When I went there?
5
Q. Yes.
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. And how did you determine when you went to
8 the site who the owners of the property were?
9
A. Well, I didn't -- I didn't determine it, I
10 don't guess that -- at that time, but there were Myers
11 Enterprises vehicles parked on the site.
12
Q. Okay.
13
A. And -- and --
14
Q. Were they in violation of any law?
15
A. The vehicles?
16
Q. Yes.
17
A. No.
18
Q. All right.
19
And then how did you determine who Myers
20 Enterprises was?
21
A. I don't know that I did.
22
Q. Okay. But yet you stated, did you not in
23 your direct testimony, that you determined that there
24 were four people who owned and/or were involved in this
17
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 particular site; is that correct?
2
A. That's correct.
3
Q. And how did you determine that?
4
A. I got the deed.
5
Q. Okay. But yet those people haven't been
6 cited; is that correct?
7
A. That's correct.
8
Q. All right.
9
Why weren't the other two people cited?
10
A. I don't think they were known at the time.
11
Q. Okay. But you since determined that there
12 were two additional people here who had an ownership
13 interest; is that correct?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Did you do a title search on the property
16 before the citations were issued?
17
A. I did not.
18
Q. All right.
19
Do you ever do that?
20
A. I do not.
21
Q. Okay. Did you ever see any opening burning
22 at the site when you were there?
23
A. Did I see opening burns?
24
Q. Yes, sir.
18
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
A. No.
2
Q. All right.
3
Did you see anybody at the site when you
4 were there?
5
A. No.
6
Q. Now, what -- what did you see on the site
7 which you believe constitutes litter?
8
A. Domicile waste.
9
Q. Okay.
10
A. Household --
11
Q. Described what that is.
12
A. Household garbage.
13
Q. Okay. When you say household garbage,
14 describe what you saw that constitutes household
15 garbage.
16
A. Paper, plastic bags, plastic buckets,
17 furniture.
18
Q. Okay.
19
A. The tires are considered litter as well.
20
Q. Is it --
21
A. Also, wood and plastic pipe.
22
Q. Is it your testimony that all the things
23 you took photographs of have no value?
24
A. No.
19
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
Q. Okay. Do the vehicles that you saw there
2 have value?
3
A. I'm sure they do.
4
Q. Okay.
5
A. That doesn't mean they're not opened
6 dumped.
7
Q. Okay.
8
A. That doesn't mean they're not waste
9 vehicles just because they have a value.
10
Q. Okay.
11
A. They're not being protected from future
12 use.
13
Q. And that's your definition.
14
A. That's the agency's definition.
15
Q. Okay. Now, your report says that you saw
16 2000 waste tires there; is that an approximation?
17
A. That's an approximation.
18
Q. How did you calculate that number?
19
A. I counted off steps, yards, how many --
20 length and width, and then tried to calculate based on
21 the length and width how many high it was.
22
Q. Okay. So, you took a section of the pile
23 of tires, if I understand you correctly --
24
A. Uh-huh.
20
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
Q. -- and then you extrapolated from that how
2 many you thought were in that section to get the total
3 number; is that right?
4
A. No.
5
Q. Okay. Then explain to me how you did it?
6
A. Most of the tires at the time of the --
7 let's see, no. The -- the second inspection I would
8 have just -- I would walked an area, yes, length and
9 width, and tried to calculate within that defined area
10 how many tires were there based on -- also based on the
11 height.
12
Q. Okay.
13
A. But then at a later time, I guess it was
14 this last inspection, it was easier to determine that it
15 was close to 2000 based on the size of the pile. They
16 weren't all scattered out on the property.
17
Q. Okay. If you recall, do you recall that
18 you made a site inspection on the Myers' property
19 because of a complaint --
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. -- that was received by the agency?
22
A. Yes, it wasn't directly against the Myers.
23 The complaint was not -- the complaint was against
24 another individual who admitted that they were going to
21
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 that property and getting tires to burn the tire off of
2 the rim for the rim value --
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. -- for seal.
5
Q. So, then you investigated further down the
6 line; is that what happened?
7
A. Yes. Yes.
8
Q. Okay.
9
A. And that occurred the same day.
10
Q. Are all of your inspections complaint
11 driven?
12
A. Majority of them, not all of them.
13
Q. So, you would acknowledge, would you not,
14 that there are a lot of other violators out there, but
15 you're not receiving complaints on them?
16
A. Absolutely.
17
Q. Okay. In a professional capacity is there
18 a difference if it wasn't an open dump site and a
19 salvage operation?
20
A. Yes.
21
Q. Okay. What's the distinction?
22
A. Salvage operation is -- it's automobiles,
23 typically, has a license from the Secretary of State
24 Police or Secretary of State. They have records that
22
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 indicate that things are coming and going off the site
2 on a regular basis. They have -- they have to have a
3 sign up according to the Secretary of State regulations
4 that, you know, defines what the name of the business is
5 and the telephone number and that kind of stuff.
6
Q. Okay. In one of your photographs I believe
7 that it indicated and in your report that you saw a
8 truck there with a cutting torch in the back of it; is
9 that correct?
10
A. That's what it appears to be.
11
Q. Did you see any evidence there that, in
12 fact, vehicles were being salvaged on the Myers'
13 property?
14
A. It appeared that vehicle components were
15 being, like engines and transmissions, were being
16 removed from automobiles on the site.
17
Q. Okay. Did you find any evidence or have
18 any suggestion that any of the items that you either saw
19 or photographed were being brought there by third
20 parties that were not involved with the Myers in any
21 way?
22
A. Did I -- did I see that?
23
Q. Yes, sir, or did you or did you get any
24 evidence --
23
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
A. I --
2
Q. -- during your investigation?
3
A. I did have some evidence that things were
4 being brought there possibly not by them --
5
Q. Okay. But you never --
6
A. -- and that's based on the ownership of two
7 boats.
8
Q. Okay.
9
A. That doesn't mean he didn't bring them
10 there.
11
Q. I see.
12
A. It means they possibly didn't own those
13 boats.
14
Q. Okay. During your inspection of the either
15 of the properties or excuse me, on the property on
16 either occasion, on any occasion, have you ever talked
17 to any of the Myers at all with respect to this?
18
A. On the property?
19
Q. Yes, sir.
20
A. No.
21
Q. Okay.
22
A. I've never found anyone at the site.
23
Q. Okay. And the only indication, if I'm
24 correct, that Bobby Myers was involved with this
24
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 property was, essentially, based on the record that you
2 received from the assessor's office; is that right?
3
A. No.
4
Q. Okay. What other evidence did you have?
5
A. I got a letter from both of the gentlemen
6 indicating that the site would be cleaned up.
7
Q. Okay.
8
A. It was signed by both of them and that was
9 after the initial inspection.
10
Q. Okay. Do you know when that was? I know
11 you don't exactly, but possible timeframe? Was it --
12
A. Probably.
13
Q. -- after the first inspection? Before the
14 second one?
15
A. I think about a month after the first
16 inspection.
17
Q. Okay.
18
A. But that is the only contact that I have
19 had with either of them.
20
Q. Okay.
21
A. Actually, I think I did get a phone call
22 from you. You're -- you're Donald, right?
23
MR. DONALD MYERS: Huh?
24
THE WITNESS: You're Donald, right?
25
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1
MR. DONALD MYERS: Yeah.
2
THE WITNESS: I think I talked to
3 Donald Myers on the phone around -- around the same
4 time.
5
MR. DONALD MYERS: I don't remember talking
6 to you. I wanted you to ask you to come down and --
7
JUDGE WEBB: Mr. Myers, you'll have a
8 chance to testify to all that.
9
MR. DONALD MYERS: Oh, okay. All right.
10
MR. WILKINS: I don't believe I have any
11 further questions. Thank you.
12
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Ms. Ryan?
13 REDIRECT-EXAMINATION BY MS. RYAN:
14
Q. Mr. Gross, where are the two boats that you
15 referred to in your cross-examination on the property on
16 December 5th, 2006?
17
A. They're not in the photographs. Let's see
18 if I have mentioned them.
19 WHEREUPON, THERE WAS A SHORT PAUSE IN THE PROCEEDINGS;
20 SUBSEQUENT TO WHICH THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE MADE
21 OF RECORD:
22
I don't report that they were.
23
Q. I'm going to show you what I've marked as
24 Exhibit 2. Is this the letter you were referring to you
26
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 received from Bobby and Donald Myers regarding the
2 property?
3
A. Yes. Yes.
4
MS. RYAN: I would move Exhibit 2 into
5 evidence.
6
JUDGE WEBB: Any objection?
7
MR. WILKINS: Not having seen it before, I
8 assume not.
9
JUDGE WEBB: Exhibit 2 is admitted into
10 evidence.
11
MS. RYAN: Nothing further.
12
JUDGE WEBB: Nothing further.
13
MR. WILKINS: Nothing further. No, thank
14 you.
15
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Thank you very much.
16
Ms. Ryan, do you have anything further to
17 present for your case?
18
MS. RYAN: I do not.
19
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Mr. Wilkins, you may
20 present your case.
21
MR. WILKINS: Thank you. I would first
22 call Bobby Myers.
23
JUDGE WEBB: All right.
24
Would the court reporter, please, swear the
27
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 witness.
2
3
BOBBY MYERS, produced, sworn, and examined
4 as a witness on behalf of the Respondents, testified and
5 deposed as follows:
6
DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. WILKINS:
8
Q. State your name for the record, please.
9
A. Bobby G. Myers.
10
Q. And Bobby, where do you live?
11
A. I live in Cobden.
12
Q. And where do you live in relation to the
13 property that's been testified about today?
14
A. Probably about four miles east. I live in
15 the city limits of Cobden.
16
Q. Now, you are familiar with the property
17 that they're talking about?
18
A. Yes, I am.
19
Q. And how are you familiar with it?
20
A. I am familiar -- that's my home place.
21 That's where I grew up at. That's where my momma and
22 dad was. That's where he died at, you know. That's my
23 home.
24
Q. And approximately how many acres are there?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
A. Seventy-nine acres.
2
Q. Okay. Part of that property was deeded off
3 at some point in time back in the 80's, was it not, to
4 your brother, Donald?
5
A. Yeah, that's correct.
6
Q. And approximately how much was deeded off?
7
A. He received one acre. I think that was
8 probably back in early 60's when I was in Germany at the
9 time. I think they gave him an acre to build a home on.
10
Q. Okay.
11
A. One acre. Used to be 80 acres there.
12
Q. And that's where he lives at now; is that
13 correct?
14
A. No, he lives in Alto Pass now. He only
15 been there, I think what, a couple years you've been up
16 there?
17
MR. DONALD MYERS: Going on three years.
18
THE WITNESS: Three, yeah.
19 BY MR. WILKINS:
20
Q. I'm going to hand you what's been marked as
21 Respondent's Exhibit 1 and ask if you recognize that
22 document?
23
A. Yes, I do.
24
Q. And what is that document?
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1
A. This is -- my dad, before he died in '89,
2 he deeded over to individuals in the family, which was
3 Harold, Donald, Barbara and myself, one-fourth of the
4 farm.
5
Q. Okay.
6
A. That's what this deed to this is.
7
Q. And as far as you know that's still the
8 ownership of that property; is that correct?
9
A. Still the ownership of this property, yes,
10 sir.
11
Q. All right.
12
And what has the farm been used for since
13 it was deeded over to you and your siblings?
14
A. Well, for several years it was farmed. And
15 then when dad died it just -- everything kind of quit.
16
Donald has had an auto salvage business
17 there for a lot of years even before dad and mom died
18 and basically, that's what it's been used for.
19
Q. Okay.
20
A. We have a mining operation, but that's
21 different than this.
22
Q. Okay. And have you had any involvement
23 whatsoever in the salvage operation?
24
A. No, sir.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
Q. All right.
2
Now, you have had heard testimony here
3 today that your name appeared on the, basically, on the
4 tax records; is that correct?
5
A. That's correct.
6
Q. All right.
7
And do you know how your name appeared on
8 those tax records?
9
A. When this deed was -- was made I
10 voluntarily accepted the responsibility receiving the
11 tax bill and seeing it was paid. And I've been doing
12 that for almost 20 years -- over 20 years now mainly
13 because I am the treasurer of this county, have been for
14 26 years. I have access to all the tax records and I
15 agreed to pay it get it paid.
16
Q. Okay. Now, earlier in the testimony
17 presented here the Petitioner's Exhibit 2 was introduced
18 into evidence. I'm going to hand you that, ask if you
19 can identify that document?
20
A. I remember first getting this and it was my
21 understanding and after talking to my brother and he
22 agreed that they were going to get it cleaned up. And I
23 agreed that I would hopefully see that it would get
24 cleaned up.
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1
Q. Okay.
2
A. But it didn't -- it didn't happen, all of
3 it, but he did clean a lot of it up.
4
Q. Okay. Now, has your other brother, Harold,
5 and your sister, Barbara, ever taken any responsibility
6 or involvement in this property?
7
A. No.
8
Q. You believe that they should have been
9 cited as well as an owner of this property based on what
10 I've handed you as Respondent's Exhibit 1?
11
A. Yes. Yes, sir, I do.
12
Q. Do you derive any income from the property,
13 salvage operation that is being operated by Donald?
14
A. No, I've never been involved in his
15 operation, his salvage operation.
16
Q. Did you ever deposit any of the items on
17 the property?
18
A. No, sir.
19
Q. Did you ever help remove any of the items
20 on the property?
21
A. No, sir.
22
Q. Did you ever contract with anyone to either
23 place any items there or remove any items from there?
24
A. No, sir.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
Q. Okay. How often do you go out there to
2 that property?
3
A. Not very often. My job is here at the
4 county at the courthouse and I very seldom go out there.
5
MR. WILKINS: I have nothing further of
6 this witness. Thank you.
7
JUDGE WEBB: Thank you.
8
Ms. Ryan?
9 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. RYAN:
10
Q. Mr. Myers, when you said you talked to your
11 brother, are you referring to Donald?
12
A. Yes.
13
Q. Then with respect to this Exhibit 2 --
14
A. That's correct.
15
Q. Okay. And I don't know if this was made
16 clear, but are Harold and Barbara also your siblings?
17
A. Yes.
18
Q. Okay.
19
A. Yes.
20
MS. RYAN: Thank you. That's all.
21
THE WITNESS: Everyone has one-fourth
22 interest in that.
23
MS. RYAN: Right. Thank you.
24
JUDGE WEBB: Nothing further for you?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
MR. WILKINS: Nothing further.
2
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Thank you very much,
3 Mr. Myers.
4
THE WITNESS: Okay.
5
MR. WILKINS: I'm going to, basically, call
6 Donald Myers as well --
7
JUDGE WEBB: Okay.
8
MR. WILKINS -- at this point. Thank you.
9
JUDGE WEBB: All right.
10
If court reporter would, please, swear in
11 Mr. Donald Myers.
12
13
DONALD MYERS, produced, sworn, and examined
14 as a witness on behalf of the Respondents, testified and
15 deposed as follows:
16
DIRECT EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. WILKINS:
18
Q. State your full name for the record,
19 please, Donald?
20
A. Donald Myers. Donald E. Myers.
21
Q. Okay. Do you also have a nickname that
22 people call you?
23
A. Sonny.
24
Q. All right.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
That's the way you're known by most people
2 in this area; is that correct?
3
A. Yeah, a lot of people know me by that name.
4
Q. Now, you've operated what I'm going to call
5 as a salvage operation on your parents' previously owned
6 farm previously owned by your parents for many years; is
7 that correct?
8
A. Yeah, about 40 years.
9
Q. All right.
10
Has it always been at the location that we
11 talked about here today?
12
A. It sure has.
13
Q. Okay. Now, you've heard the testimony of
14 Mr. Gross that he inspected the property and found a
15 large number of items which he believes violate the law;
16 is that correct?
17
A. Well, yeah, that's what he said. Yeah.
18
Q. All right.
19
What is your position with respect to the
20 violations that he's alleging against you, Mr. Myers?
21
A. Well now, the letter that I got from them
22 stated that they would come in and clean up the tires
23 and oil free of charge.
24
Most of the cars that is in these pictures
35
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 has already been disposed of and lot of them has, like I
2 say, done been junked out, hauled off, sold for scrap.
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. Now the tires, I went through these tires,
5 you can see in these pictures, and gathered the steel
6 out of them and lined the tires up for them to pick them
7 up.
8
Q. Did you receive value for the cars?
9
A. Value? The boy did, yeah.
10
Q. Okay. When you say the boy, who's he?
11
A. Junior. I'm more or less, I had my heart
12 attack in '99 and I pretty well let him do anything
13 since then, because I haven't been able to do that much.
14
Q. Okay.
15
A. And he's got the receipts and everything
16 when he's hauled these junk cars off, along with the tin
17 and stuff that we gathered up.
18
Q. Okay. So, you received compensation for
19 those items; is that correct?
20
A. Right.
21
Q. All right.
22
A. Uh-huh.
23
Q. Now, Mr. Gross testified that there was --
24 I believe he says -- he called it domestic waste, I
36
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 believe is the phrase that he used for an old
2 refrigerator, items like that. Do you recall there
3 being those items out there?
4
A. Well, if there was they'd been hauled off.
5
Q. Okay.
6
A. When he -- when he tested it if them was
7 out there.
8
Q. Do you know where they came from?
9
A. No.
10
Q. Okay.
11
A. Because out there -- I live up Alto. I've
12 lived up there ever since '05, because I had to move up
13 there on account of wife's health. And people would
14 just bring stuff and dump it off. Well, and I have had
15 to clean it up. And that's -- and there's no way of
16 knowing, because you -- I've caught people dumping stuff
17 and turn them into the law, but they wouldn't do
18 anything about it. And I have had to clean it up. And
19 that's what I've done all them years. Uh-huh.
20
Q. Now, we've been talking here about a deed
21 that was purportedly made by your father,
22 Paul Brian Myers in 1989, which deeded the farm property
23 to you, Bobby, Harold and Barbara. Are you familiar
24 with that document?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
A. Yes. Well, not document. I knew about it
2 yeah.
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. Uh-huh.
5
Q. And you consider yourself a one-fourth
6 interest owner --
7
A. Right.
8
Q. -- of that farm; is that correct?
9
A. Right.
10
Q. All right.
11
Now, the salvage operation that's been
12 operated on this property for, I think you said,
13 40 years?
14
A. Yeah, at least 40 years.
15
Q. Has Harold or Bobby or Barbara ever been
16 involved in that in any way?
17
A. No. No.
18
Q. Have they ever had any concern about it?
19 They've never received any money from it?
20
A. No. No.
21
Q. It's strictly been your operation?
22
A. It's been mine, mine and the boy's, yes,
23 for the last --
24
Q. Okay.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1
A. -- I say 10 years it's been more or less
2 the boy's.
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. As a matter of fact, he owns about
5 everything out there now.
6
Q. Okay. All right.
7
MR. WILKINS: I have nothing further.
8
I would move to admit Respondent's
9 Exhibit 1, which is the deed testimony has been taken
10 concerning.
11
MS. RYAN: No objection.
12
JUDGE WEBB: Respondent's Exhibit 1 is
13 admitted.
14
Ms. Ryan?
15 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. RYAN:
16
Q. Mr. Myers, you said you got a letter from
17 Illinois EPA saying they would clean up the tires for
18 you. Can I show you what I've marked as Exhibit 3 and I
19 apologize -- oh, wait. That's actually the good one.
20 I'm sorry. Hold -- let me take that one back. I'm
21 going to give that one to the judge. I'll give you the
22 one that's stapled and I'll give you this one. I had
23 copier issues, I guess.
24
MR. WILKINS: At least it's stapled.
39
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
800.244.0190
1 BY MS. RYAN:
2
Q. Is this the letter you were referring to?
3
A. (No response.)
4
Q. If it helps, the issue with regard to the
5 tires is at the bottom of the first page under paragraph
6 three there.
7
A. Well, now this could have been. That's
8 been a long time ago.
9
Q. Okay.
10
A. Uh-huh.
11
Q. Did you -- you had more than a thousand
12 tires at your site at that time, didn't you?
13
A. I don't think so.
14
Q. You don't think so. Okay.
15
You didn't sign a consensual removal
16 agreement and send it back the Illinois EPA, did you?
17
A. Well, I didn't know I had that.
18
Q. Thank you.
19
MS. RYAN: I would -- I have no other
20 questions, but I would move to introduce Exhibit 3 in
21 evidence as the apparent letter to which he was
22 referring to in his previous testimony.
23
JUDGE WEBB: Any objection to that?
24
MR. WILKINS: Well, I object for the record
40
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 only because I don't think there's been sufficient
2 foundation to show that that is the letter that he
3 received. I think the testimony stands for itself that
4 he did receive a letter that's similar to that and I
5 would stipulate to that fact.
6
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. Well, I'll go ahead and
7 admit it.
8
MR. WILKINS: Okay.
9
MS. RYAN: Thank you.
10
JUDGE WEBB: I'm sorry, did you have any
11 further questions?
12
MR. WILKINS: No, I did not. No.
13
JUDGE WEBB: And no further questions?
14
MS. RYAN: I do not.
15
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. All right. Thank you,
16 Mr. Myers.
17
The transcript of these proceedings will be
18 available from the court reporter by December 16th and
19 will be posted on the Board's web site.
20
The public comment deadline is
21 December 30th. Any public comment must be filed in
22 accordance with Section 101.628 of the Board's
23 procedural rules.
24
The Complainant's brief is due by
41
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 January 5th of 20009. And the Respondent's brief is due
2 by January 26th, 20009. The mailbox rule will apply.
3
Ms. Ryan, would you like to make a closing
4 argument?
5
MS. RYAN: No, I would like to reserve that
6 for my brief thank. You.
7
JUDGE WEBB: Mr. Wilkins, would you like to
8 make a closing argument?
9
MR. WILKINS: I would choose to do the same
10 thing. Thank you.
11
JUDGE WEBB: Okay. As there are no members
12 of the public present to make any statements on the
13 record I will proceed to make a statement as to the
14 credibility of the witnesses testifying during this
15 hearing: Based on my legal judgment and experience I
16 find all of the witnesses testifying to be credible.
17
At this time I will conclude the
18 proceedings and I thank all of you for your
19 participation.
20
21
22
23
24
42
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
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1 STATE OF MISSOURI.
)
2
) SS
3 COUNTY OF JEFFERSON
)
4
5
I, Bobbi L. Hamlin, a Notary Public in and for
6 the County of Jefferson, State of Missouri, DO HEREBY
7 CERTIFY that pursuant to agreement between the parties
8 the following hearing was held before me on December 4,
9 2008, at The Union County Courthouse, Jonesboro,
10 Illinois, parties were first duly sworn by me to tell
11 the whole truth of all knowledge touching upon the
12 matter in controversy aforesaid so far as the witnesses
13 should be interrogated concerning the same; that the
14 witnesses were examined and said examination was taken
15 down in shorthand by me and afterwards transcribed upon
16 the typewriter and said hearing is herewith returned.
17
18
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
19 hand and affixed my Notarial Seal this 14th day of
20 December, 2008.
21
_________________________________
22
Notary Public, CCR, RMR
Illinois License #084-002797
23
My Commission Expires June 26, 2009
24
43
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