Exhibit
7
ELDON POLHEMUS
9 -15-2006
BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY,
Petitioner,
-vs-
)NO . PCB 06-184
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD,
Respondent .
)
The deposition of ELDON POLHEMUS, a material
witness herein, called for examination pursuant to
notice and the Supreme Court Rules as they pertain to
the taking of discovery depositions before Acne M
.
Giftos, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public in and for the
County of Peoria, and State of Illinois, on Friday,
September 15th, 2006, at 416 Main Street, Suite 1400,
Peoria, Illinois, commencing at the hour of
11 :00 a .m .
APPEARANCES :
GEORGE MUELLER, ESQUIRE
528 Columbus Street, Suite 204
Ottawa, Illinois 61350
and
JANAKI NAIR, ESQUIRE
Elias, Meginnes, Riffle & Seghetti, P
.C .
916 Main Street, Suite 1400
Peoria, Illinois 61602
on behalf of the Petitioner ;
DAVID A . BROWN, ESQUIRE
Black, Black & Brown
101 South Main Street
Morton, Illinois 61550
on behalf of the Respondent ;
Page 1
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
ID CB06-184
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
I N D E X
WITNESS
ET DON POLHEMUS
Examination by Ms . Nair
EXHIBITS
None marked .
Page 2
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
PCB06-184
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Page
A Well . I've lived in Hanna City for the last
30 years, either in Hanna City or on the edge of
it .
•
Could you describe for us --I'm assuming
you're retired now, is that correct?
A Except the board . Yes .
•
Prior to your retirement other than
obviously the county board, what was your line of
work?
A I owned a late model used car operation for
25 years, and I've been in the automobile
business -- I was in there about four years or 40
years and I've been retired five years .
•
So you've been in various parts of the car
industry then?
employment at some point?
A She worked with me in the dealership .
Q Do you have grown children who are in the
area?
A
Yes
. one daughter.
Q What does she do?
A She's an executive on the Par-A-Dice . but
I
keep forgetting what she does . She computes all
the figures and all that stuff .
Q Do you have any immediate family let's say
out to nieces and nephews who are located in
the
Peoria area who are engaged in the healthcare
industry, so nurses, doctors who work in the
clinics?
A I've got a cousin that's a nurse .
Q Where does he work?
A the last time I heard . he worked for the
Morton Fire Department .
Q When did you first become a board member at
the Peoria County Board?
A In November it will he 16 years .
Q Are you running for reelection this year or
are you midterm?
Pages 3 to 6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Faa= 3
ELDON POLHEMt S .
1
a material witness herein . being dine sworn . was
examined and testified as follows :
EXAMINATION
4
I3Y MS . NAIR :
Q Could you please state your full name and
6
spell your last name for the record?
A My full name is Fldon . I.-I : D-O-N . Polhemus .
8
9 P-0-I; H-E-M-ti-S .
9
10 Q Thank you . We're here for the discovery
10
11 deposition of Mr. Eldon Polhemus taken pursuant to
1 1
1 2 notice and by agreement of the parties .
12
13
Mr
. Polhemus, have you ever been deposed
13
14 before for any reason?
14
15 A Yes .
1=
16 Q So you do know sort of the basic ground
16
17 rules about being careful not to talk over each
17
18
other and you know that the court reporter is
10
1 9 taking down everything that we say?
19
20 A Yes .
20
21 Q All right then . Let's dive right in .
21
22 You're 72 years old, sir?
22
23 A Well . I'm not quite . 71 right now .
23
24 Q What is your home address?
24
2
A
Cih .
Page 4
4516 South Ilanna C'ity!Cilasibrd Road . Hanna
2
3 Q We have a home phone number listed for you
3
4 that's 565-9953, is that correct?
4
5 A That's one of them . yes .
5
6 Q Do you have another home number?
6
7 A 369-9993 .
7
8 Q We have an E-mail address listed for you,
8
9 Epolhemus(a peoriacounty .org ?
9
10 A It's over in the courthouse but I never use
10
11 it .
11
12 Q Do you have any personal E-mail addresses?
12
13 A No .
i 3
14 Q Can you briefly describe for us your
14
15
educational background?
l5
16 A Veq minor . I'm a high school graduate .
16
17 Q Where did you go to high school?
17
18 A Farminuton .
18
19 Q Did you grow up around here?
19
2 0 A Hanna City . horn there .
20
21 Q How long have you lived at that address in
21
22 Hanna City?
22
23 A two years at that address.
23
24 Q
Before that?
24
A Yes .
Q You say you owned a dealership then?
A Yes .
Q Did you do any repair work there?
A No .
Q Was this dealership located in Hanna City?
A Yes
.
Q Are you married, sir?
A Yes .
Q
Pace 0
Did your wife, did she also have an
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Q During your last election, were you
15
opposed?
1 6
A Yes .
17
Q Are you Democrat or Republican party?
1 P
A I've been all kinds, but I'm a Democrat .
10,
You asked if I was opposed?
20
Q
Yes .
21
22
A Yes, 1 was .
23 Q What was, if you know, your margin of
- 23
24 v'
y
in that election?
24
been appropriate? Would that have been okay?
Page 8
Page 10
Page
A I'm midterm .
Q Could you briefly describe for us the
geographic boundaries of your district as it
currently exists?
A Well, by road is the easy way . First of
all, I start at Taylor Road, that runs north and
south and goes all the way to Farmington . all the
way to Fulton County line, and then on the north it
goes to 150 in Brimfield . South it goes to the
Illinois River . It's the biggest district in the
county .
Q How did the boundaries of your district
12
change at the redistricting that occurred recently?
13
A Very little .
14
1
A 160 or 70 votes out of about 1 .000 .
2
Q Do you have any personal expertise or
7
3 experience at all in the area of hazardous waste?
4
A
The only experience I have is I've been on
5 the landfill committee of the hoard tbr
. now this
6
is a guess
. about eight years . What information I
gather from being on that hoard is all I've got .
9
Q How many people are on the landfill
9 committee?
~0
A Seven . I think . counting the chairman .
1 1 Q What's the function of the landfill
12 committee?
13
A Well . it's . like
. the trustees oversees the
14 operation of it .
15
Q Is this the city county landfill?
16
A Yes . ma'am .
17
Q
Do you have any other experience outside of
19 your work with the landfill committee regarding
19 lead paint, any sort of lead contamination?
20 A
No .
21 Q How about asbestos? Do you know anything
22
about that?
23
A No
.
24
Q
I'd like to turn to the PDC, Peoria
were going to end up toting on something . the onh
contact I had with the public was all the letters I
got and a tew phone calls. but I didn't go on an%
of the hearings or nothing .
Q Regarding these contacts. was it your
understanding that you could receive contacts from
the participant in the hearings as well?. So, for
example, if Royal Coulter the head of PDC had
called you or written you a letter, would that have
o.ge
a
1 Disposal Company, application for expansion of
2 their hazardous waste facility .
3
I'm going to ask you about communications
4 that occurred or may hate occurred with you as a
7
5 county board member between No,
ember of 2005 which
6 is when PDC submitted its application and \lay of
2006 which is when the board actually rated finally
8 on the application .
9
First off, just in general, back in
10 \ovember of 2005, what was your understanding as to
11 what communications you could engage in with the
public regarding the landfill expansion?
A Well . it's ahtats been that it's a minimum .
he yen minimum contact with the public . When we
A I don't think it would have, no .
Q So do you know the name Joyce Blumenshine,
3 for example?
4
A
I've heard of it
.
5
Q Well, she's the head of the local chapter
6 of the Sierra Club .
A Okay .
B
Q
Let's say she had written you a letter or
9 called you on the phone . Would that have been
10 appropriate?
11
A She probabt' did then . I mean
. I didn't
12 ev en read the letters I got
. I'd read enough of
13 each letter to see whether they were for or against
14
it . Ihat's all I'd do
. I stacked them up and kept
15 track of them .
16 Q What was your general understanding as to
17 overall what people thought for and against?
18
A
Well
. the letter count I had and the phone
19 call count it was very high against it .
2
20
Q Y'ou reference these letters that you got .
1 Can you take a guess as to how many letters you
22
received?
2 3
A There were over 100 . between 100 and 125 .
2 4
Q Did these letters come to your home?
Pages 7 to 10
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
ELDON
POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
only copies you had or did you give them to the
county clerk or anything?
A I kept everything .
•
We briefly mentioned E-mail, and you said
that the only E-mail account you had was with the
county?
A Yes .
•
So did you receive copies of any of those
E-mails from the county clerk or from anybody at
the county ?
A Once in a while there %could he one or two
in our packet
.
•
What's your packet?
A
We get a packet eNery week of that tteek's
correspondence and scheduling and it the are lucky a
little check .
•
So sometimes there would be E-mails in your
23 '05, May'06?
packets?
2 4
A Probabh 151o20
.
Pace 1
Page 14
7 It's further our understanding that there are
8 probably a few hundred E-mails sent to your
9 account, your E-mail account at the county .
10
Did you see copies of those E-mails?
1 1
A
I've never looked in my E-mail account
.
12 Honesth
. I never ha% c .
1 3 Q
We've heard testimony from some county
14 board members that sometimes as you said these
_ 5 E-mails would be printed off and passed along
.
1 6
Did you ever receive larger packets of
17 E-mails or just one or two at a time?
18
A Rest of m~ knowledge . it
was just one or
19 two . maybe three in a weekly packet
.
2 0
Q
You haven't ever deleted any of your
21 E-mails, have you?
22 A No .
2 3
Q So to your knowledge, there's a pile of
24
E-mails
sitting in your E-mail account
with the
A Yes .
Q Were these left on your voice mail or were
2
Q Do you know how it was determined which
these people who actually got ahold of you?
:,
E-mails went in the packs?
4
A No .
5
Q
It's our understanding, just so you know,
6 that there were hundreds of E-mails that were sent
. 6
3
4
5
A No . No . I didn't .
•
Thank you
. Do you know who maintains the
website --
I'm sorry, not the website, the E-mail
accounts?
A
Eridentl' our office
. but I don't knots .
•
You mentioned the packs that you get
occasionally that would have some E-mails .
Do you know who prepares those?
A 0111cc stab : I don't know that they
prepare the F -mails themseh es
. The\ prepare the
packet, stuff it and either mail it or git c it to
us at a meeting like we got one last night
.
•
On the telephone calls that you mentioned,
you said you did get some telephone calls?
A A few
. yeah .
•
How many would you say between November
A Most of them were --'sell
. I Lot --I
always returned my calls
. So I either got it
direct to start with or ans%ered the
--
•
Voice message?
7
A the recording.
8
Q Did you call people who sent you letters,
too?
10
A No
.
11
Q When you'd call people back or talk to them
12 originally on the phone when they called you, we
13 have talked about the fact that you knew you should
14 minimize your contact with the public
.
15
So if somebody were to call you, how would
16 you handle that, that telephone call?
17
A Well
. most of the time when I'd get a
19 message on mV phone . it
wouldn't really say what it
19 ttas six
. It would say this is so and so
. would you
20 please call me
. So I call everybody hack
.
21
If I call them hack and they start to talk
22 about something like that
. I tell them that. you
2 3 knot . I can't --
we can't have a conversation about
24 this . We're supposed to --
I said. I will read
Pages 11 to
14
PEOPIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
_age 11
Page
1
A Yes .
Q What did you do with the letters when you
got them? I know you mentioned stacking them up
.
A Atier the final Note on the count\ hoard
. I
threw et en thing a\\ a\ .
Q When you received them, did you keep the
3
E
county?
it .
A
Q
Could he
. I don't knots how to e% cn enter
Do you recall when you first got your
E-mail account if you set up a password or
anything?
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
A Billboards?
•
Yes .
A No . I don't remember seeing am
.
•
How about yard signs, signs that people
would put in their yards?
A A few .
•
Were those in your district or elsewhere?
A Most of them it I remember right were
of er
along Route 8 near the landfill
.
•
Did you ever look up any websites
A
No.
•
Do you have left in your possession any
notes, any copies of documents of anything that you
received during this period pertaining to the
landfill?
A No . ma'am . I threw it all away .
•
Did you ever discuss the landfill expansion
with any other board members?
A Not yen much because we had a committee of
the hoard that was in the hearing . I left that up
to them . you know . whatever they thought lion they
toted didn't necessarily mean how I was going to
otc .
•
Did you discuss the expansion with any of
Page 8
the subcommittee members?
A Not am_thina in excess of maybe it A seen
them . How's
the hearings going and . you know . what
does it sound like
. I never got into am details .
•
To your knowledge, what was the vote of the
subcommittee?
A You know . I don't remember
.
•
Do you know if there was a final vote, a
formal vote of the subcommittee?
A
I imagine their referral to the hoard would
have been their final vote .
•
Did you see a document that was the
referral of the matter from the subcommittee to the
full board or the full committee?
A I11 remember correctly . I got a synopsis
ot'the hearing . the minutes of the hearing, and
just to he honest with you . I didn't read it . I
imagine it was in there .
•
The minutes of the hearing that you're
talking about, is that -- I will come back to that .
It's going to be confusing.
If I could go through then sort of what
information was at your disposal to make your
decision, did you ever take a tour of the landfill?
Pages 15 to 18
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
v .
PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pamo 15
1 your letter, and that's about it.
1
1 didn't get smart with them, but I told
3
them that's the way it was .
4 Q
Did you ask them on the phone or get a
feeling from them on the phone as to whether they
6 were in favor of or against the expansion?
6
A Didn't have to ask them . They would voice
8 their opinion very quickly .
9
Q Out of the 100 to 125 letters and the 15 to
9
1 0
20 phone calls you received from various people,
1 i)
.'- what percentage would you say were against the
1 -
12 expansion?
13
A
85 to 90 percent .
13
14 Q You said earlier that you thought that it
14
was pretty significantly against the landfill in
15
1 6 terms of the public sentiment?
16
A Yes .
3
18 Q Other than the phone calls and letters you
18
19 got, what would you base that understanding on?
19
2C
A What would give me the opinion?
20
21 Q
Y'es .
21
2 2 A It's what -- if their letter said if they
222
23 were against it or the conversation said they were
- 3
24 against it .
24
Page 16
1
Q Other than the letters and the telephone
1
2
calls, did you have an understanding in the wider
2
3 community, people who didn't necessarily call you
3
4 or write to you, what the overall sentiment was?
4
_.
A Well . I go to the restaurant quite a hit.
5
6
and the general consensus was that people weren't
6
for it .
8 Q When you'd go out, say, to a restaurant,
8
9 would people approach you to talk about this?
9
10
A Once in a while, but I'd just change the
10
11
subject
.
11
12 Q Again, would they immediately voice their
12
1 3 opinion yes or no?
13
14 A Around the coftee table the' re pretty good
14
1 5 at that . yes .
15
16 Q
About how many times would you say between
16
1 ,
November of'05 and May of'06 did people come up 1
28! to you in public or mention to you in person that
1 0
19
they had an opinion about the landfill?
19
20 A At the most . 10 times maybe .
20
21 Q Did you ever see any billboards opposing
21
22 the landfill expansion?
22
23 A Any what . ma'am?
23
24 Q Billboards .
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
z
4
Page 1 9
concerning the landfall expansion?
2
A I don't remember
. I don't remember
3 receiving something like that .
4
Q There were two staff reports filed
5 basically
. There was a first one right at the end
6 of March and then there was a supplemental report
7 that was prepared a few days later as I recall .
You don't the remember seeing either of
9 those?
10
A
I don't remember . but I can't say I didn't
11 get them .
12
Q But you certainly didn't review them, is
13 that correct?
14
A No
. I wouldn't have re%ietycd them .
15 Q There was a meeting on April 3rd of the
1 6 subcommittee concerning this matter .
17
Did you sit in on that hearing?
18 A No .
19 Q Did you attend the April 6th meeting of
2 0 the whole county board, it was actually the full
21 committee on the siting, then there was a
2 2 subsequent board meeting where they actually voted
2 3 to approve or deny that was on May 3rd .
24
So did you attend the April 6th one?
Pa ge
1
A
I'm not positis e on the April 6th e Nether
2 I did . I did the Mas 3rd .
3
Q So the very last meeting on the expansion
4
you attended?
5
A Yes .
7
6
Q So you do remember, though, attending the
May 3rd meeting?
6
A
I hat's the one tyc toted on .
A No .
•
Did you have an opportunity to review the
actual application that was fled by Peoria
Disposal Company?
A
I had the opportunity, but I didn't do it .
•
You didn't review the application?
A No .
•
Did you review any expert reports?
C4
A No .
9
Q You mentioned that you did receive 100 to
1 0
Q You've mentioned that you didn't attend the
10 150 letters?
11 public hearings concerning the expansion, is that
11
A Yes .
12 correct?
''12
Q I'm going to run through some possible
13
A That's correct .
: 13 people who would have sent you letters, and I'm
1 4
Q
Did you review the transcripts of those
14 curious to know if you recognize these names
.
15 hearings?
16
A That's what I said that I got but I didn't
17 read them .
1 P
Q
I see
. So you received the transcripts of
19 the public hearings?
20 A Yes .
21 Q And you didn't review them?
22 A No .
2 3
Q Did you ever receive a staff report, a
24 report actually prepared by the county staff
24 landtll committee .
15
A Oka>
.
1 6 Q The first one that comes to mind is Tom
17 Edwards?
18 A Yes . I received main from him .
19 Q Many from Tom Edwards . His organization is
2 0 River Rescue, is that right?
21
A Yes .
22 Q Did you know Tom Edwards before this?
2 3
A I've known him Ibr along time through the
Page 20
Page 22
I
Q I see
. When would you say you first met
2 Tom?
A Sic seven years ago .
5
•
You've been on the landfill committee
for --
6
A About eight years .
•
Thank you . So you've known Tom Edwards for
s' six or seven years, you said?
9
A Yes .
10
Q In that time, has he submitted a lot of
1 material to you?
12
A Yes .
13
Q This was about the city county landfill
14 first and then about PDC expansion, is that right?
15
A Yes.
16 Q Do you consider Tom Edwards to be somebody
17 who knows his way around a landfill, knows what's
1 E going on with landfills?
15
A Yes .
20
Q Do you think he is a knowledgable person
21 when it comes to landfills?
22
A Yes .
2 .,
Q Do you trust his opinion when he states an
2 4 opinion about a landfill?
Pages 19 to 22
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
I'm going to run through sort of a list of names
.
A Okay .
Q On each name what I'm wondering if whether
you received any letters from them or phone calls
from them and whether you just know the person in
general .
I know you weren't at the hearings, so you
wouldn't necessarily recognize their names from
that, but if you know the name, if you have any
sort of a previous relationship or even recognize
the name . Dr
. Rodney Lorenz?
A No .
Q Dr. John McLean?
A No
.
Q
Dr . Vidas?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
No .
Dr. Zwicky?
No .
Did McRae?
No .
Dr. Steven Smith?
No .
Dr
. McGee?
No .
Page -5
either of them about the expansion?
A Just in passing . nothing in really
particular .
• Did you have an understanding going into
that May 3rd vote of what any of the other board
members' votes were going to be?
A No . I didn't know .
•
Had you expressed to anybody else what your
vote was probably going to be?
A No .
•
Going into the May 3rd meeting, did you
know how you were going to vote?
A Not 100 percent . Pretty Sure .
• You've mentioned that van aren't sure what
the subcommittee's recommendation was, is that
right?
A That's right .
•
Do you know what the staffs recommendation
was?
A I think their recommendation was approval .
•
Do you specifically remember the terms of
the approval or denial?
A No.
•
Other than Tom Edwards, did you receive --
Page 26
Pages 23 to 26
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Page 3
A Sometimes .
Q When wouldn't you trust his opinion?
A When I disagreed kith it .
Q All right . Has that happened with the city
4
county landfill?
A Yes .
6
9
Q How about on this PDC expansion?
A Never got that tar with him on that .
9 Q So when it comes to city county, you've had
12
discussions with him, is that right?
13
11 A Yes .
12 Q Did you ever discuss the PDC expansion with
-
13
Tom?
13
1`
A No .
14
1 Q When you'd receive a mailing or something 15
1 6 from Tom Edwards concerning the PDC expansion,
16
17 would you read the mailings?
16 A Not usualh .
1n
_ Q You know what Tom thought about the
19
20 expansion, is that right?
20
a - A Oh . yes. _yes . lie was very clear on that
.
21
22
Q You did receive a lot of mailings from him,
22
23
is that right?
23
24
A
Yes .
24
11
Page 24
Q Did he ever come to your home and drop
2
something off, drop off a mailing?
2
3
A
I think once he did . He stopped by and the
3
4 doorbell rang and there stood Tom, only once I
4
5
think.
5
6
Q Did anybody else ever come to your house
6
?
concerning the PDC expansion?
8
A I don't think so .
a
~^
Q To double back a little bit, you mentioned
9
(i
that you discussed at least a little the PDC
1
r
11
expansion with other board members just in brief,
111
12
is that right?
12
13
A Yes .
13
1 4 Q
Who did you talk to?
14
15
A
By names, it would probably have been the
".5
16 ones that sat next to me on the board .
16
17 Q
Are you seated alphabetically?
1%
18 A No .
18
i 9
Q
By district?
19
20
A No, by seniority .
20
21 Q
So who sits on either side of you then?
21
22
A
Carol Trumpe sits to my left and Jeff Joyce
22
23
sits to my right.
23
24 Q
So do you recall specifically talking to
24
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Paae 2
=aae 29
Pages 27 to 30
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Q Are you close friends with any physicians
4
Q
A Bucklar?Bucklar,
B-I.'-C-K-L-A-R?
A
Q
No
How
.
about a Kim Converse?
in the -- in the Peoria area?
4
A
Q
Ordinarc
Yes .
physicians?
D A Well. ces_ my cardiologist
. I'm very close
C
7
A No .
6 to him .
Q Do you remember getting any mailings from
7 Q
Did you ever discuss the landfill expansion
her or phone calls?
b with him?
8
A I could have . but I don't remember .
9 A No .
9
Q Don't specifically remember . That's fine .
1
0 Q
How about any nurses or people in the
10
How about a Ted Converse?
11 healthcare community?
11
A No .
A No . I don't think so.
12 Q How about Ralph or Jane Converse?
13 Q Did you ever discuss the PDC expansion with
13
A No .
14 your cousin who's a nurse?
14 Q
Are you familiar with Converse Marketing?
A No . I very rarelc see him
.
'5
A
Yes .
16
Q
Did you have any family members who
16 Q What's your familiarity with Converse
17 expressed a very strong or a strong opinion one way 1 7 Marketing?
or the other about the expansion?
16 A Marketing company on Main Street
. That's
19 A No .
19
about it .
20 Q To get back to my list of names, do you
20
Q Have you ever had any business association
21 know a Beth Akeson?
21
with them?
2 :: A No .
22
A No .
23 Q Jeff Akeson, he's a physician?
23 Q
Are you aware that they did some work for
A No .
2 9
the county, that Converse Marketing did?
2
Page 28
Q Joyce Blumenshine?
A Yes .
1
2
A No .
Q Doesn't ring a bell?
Page 30
3 Q How do you know Joyce?
3
A No .
4 A Just by name recognition more than
4
Q How about Bill Cook?
Do you know Bill
5 anything .
5
Cook?
6 Q Are you aware that she's associated with
6 A I know a Bill Cook, but it -- it wouldn't
7 the Heart of Illinois Sierra Club?
7 he that one .
8
A
Yes .
8
Q This one is a professor at ICC, I think .
9 Q Do you recall how you first became aware of
9
Does that sound like --
10
that?
10
A No . That's not the one .
11 A Probably in one of those letters . 1
11
Q Joyce Harant?
"_2 imagine .
12 A No .
13 Q So did you receive -- I think we covered
13
Q Mary Harkrader?
14 this, but to be sure I'm clear, did you receive
14
A Oh . yes .
15 mailings from Joyce Blumenshine?
15
Q How do you know Mary?
1 6 A I think I maybe got one or two . something
16 A I've know her for about 10 years when she
17
like that .
17 was county clerk in Peoria County .
1 P Q
How about telephone calls?
18 Q Do you keep in contact with Mary at all?
1 9 A That I can't remember
.
19 A Not since she retired .
20
Q Tessie Bucklar?
20 Q Did you ever discuss or -- the landfill
21 A Who?
21 with her?
22 Q Tessie Bucklar?
-
22
A No .
23 A No .
23
Q Do you have any idea what her position is
24 Q Tom Bucklar?
24
about the landfill?
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Pa,- 31
(Ce
Pages 31 to 34
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
4
A Not for sure .
Q What's your guess?
A That she's against it .
Q How do you come up with that guess?
'-
matter with anyone in the Democratic leadership?
A No .
C
Q Have you ever received a campaign
contribution or support of any kind from any of the
5 A Well, she's pretq much an
following organizations, I'm going to list them and
6 environmentalist .
6 say yes or no, Heart of Illinois Sierra Club?
7 Q I already asked you about a John McLean
A Not that I can remember .
P
9
who's a physician . His wife Cindy, do you know her
name?
F
Q Obviously, these are going to be as far as
you can remember .
12 A No .
10
The Sierra Club nationally?
11 Q How about Lisa or Peter Offutt?
11
A No
.
1 ~
A No .
Q Do you think you might have received
i 2
Q Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste??
13 A No .
mailings from them?
14 Q Citizens for Our Environment?
16
A Possible .
Q Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
15 A No
.
1 6 Q River Rescue?
17 A No .
17
A No . no donations .
1 3 Q How about Elmo or Jean Roach?
1 A
Q Any other environmental organizations that
19 A No .
1 9 might have contributed?
20 Q Do you know if you might have received
2 0
A Not that can I recall .
21
mailings or telephone calls from them?
21 Q Are you a member of any environmental
22 A
It's possible .
22 organizations?
23 Q Cara Rosson?
23
A Well, the onlc --
I'm a member of the
24 A No .
24
Peoria County farm Bureau . but that's not
Paav 32
Pace 4
Q Amy Schlicksup?
1
environmental -- it's environmental
. but it's not
A No .
2
environmental .
Q
Do you know a Schlicksup? Is that ringing
4
Q Did you receive campaign contributions by
a bell?
any chance by anybody we've been talking about off
6
A
Q
Different person .
Not uncommon name in the area, I know .
my list?
A No .
7 Bill Scott, he's a physician?
Q How about Tom Edwards?
8 A No .
A No
.
10
c
Q Cathy Stevenson?
A No .
10
Q Are you a member of the Universalist
Unitarian Church or St. Thomas Church?
11 Q
Diane Storey?
A No .
12 A No .
12
Q Do you know if you've received any
13 Q
Mayvis Young?
contribution or campaign support from any
' 4 A No .
14 physicians at Methodist or OSF or any of the major
15 Q How about Barb Van Auken?
I
', medical providers in the area?
16 A Oh, yes, but I don't know her personally
.
1 6 A Not that I know of.
17 I just know her by being -- she's city council .
1
Q Do you recall stating to any member of the
1 E
Q Do you know what her position is on the
18 Coulter family or anyone you know who was
19 landfill?
1'9 associated with PDC that you had an opinion about
20 A I'd be guessing . I would say it's probably
._ what should happen on appeal of the board decision?
21
against it .
21 A 'the only thing that -- the only contact
22 Q What would you base that against on?
22
that I've had with Royal was after the meeting and
23 A She's an environmentalist, too.
23 after the vote was taken. We were leavingthe Il'tIC)
24
Q Did you ever discuss your vote in this
2 4 Club and I walked over and shook hands and wished
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
7
6
8
q
1 8
11 with him . So the' -- maybe I said something . I
_
12 might have been thinking
. but I didn't think [said
_2
1 3 it because I think a lot of Royal Coulter .
13
5
14
Q When you say you think a lot of Royal
14
Coulter, could you explain what you mean?
1 6
A
Well . I think he's an excellent business
1 6
1 7 man lust like his father was . I le's alwa's treated
17
I R me very well .
18
19 Q So do you feel that you hope he does well
19
2 0 on the appeal then?
2 0
21
A
t hat's up to the appeal
. I'm in a hard
21
22 spot because I personally like hint
. but I'm also
22
23 obligated to do what the law say s and w hat the
23
24 county says .
24
Page 36
1
Q
What was your understanding of what you
0
2 were supposed to consider in making your decision
on this expansion?
4
A Well
. I can't really tell you because we
5 had things wrote down reasons that we would derv
6
it . You'd have to research that
. I don't know .
6
7
Q Was it your understanding that those
7
P reasons to deny that you saw --
8
9 A Findings of fact
.
9
10
Q
The findings of fact, the recommended
1 0
1I
i findings of fact, who do you believe prepared
11
12 those?
12
13 A I would think that somebody on our staff
13
14 did or maybe one of our legal attorne> s . I don't
14
15 know
.
15
16 Q
Did you believe you were to rely on those
16
'' -'
findings of fact in coming up with your decision?
17
1$
A No. I hclicred if they met what my reasons
18
1 9 were because the findings of fact really never
1 9
20 meant anything to me until after the rote
. After
20
21 the y ote was cocro then I was -- I was satisfied
21
22 that the findings of fact would match the reason to
22
23 deny .
23
2 4
Q
So you had independent reasons?
2
4
A Yes .
•
What was your understanding for what
information you should gather to come up with that
decision, your independent reasons for denial?
A I will tell you I make a lot of nt\
decisions yes and no on important rotes like (hat
by the . what do you say
. the intbrrnution I acquire
from these letters and things like that because I
don't go out and go to panics and stuff' like that .
•
So by those letters, do you mean the
letters that you were getting at your home from
members of the public?
A Yes .
•
So it was your--so you considered the
information that you received at your home?
A No . I --
the only way I considered the
letters and that I got was I used it like a tall\
sheet
. It 'l got 100 letters and 80 or 90 of them
were against it . I felt that's the way the public
tilt . that's the way -- I was supposed to represent
the public . too .
We're had many decisions on diticrent
things
. and my decision hasn't been wholly on
letter count
. but I consider that a good part of m'
1
reasoning .
2
MS . NAIR : We're going to take a real
3
short break and we're almost done
.
4
(Recess in proceedings
.)
5
MS . NAIR : I think we are all done .
(Further deponent saith not
.)
Pages 35 to 38
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pale
1 him good luck . That's it .
Q Did you say anything more than just good
3 luck?
4A
Q
I don't think so
.
Do you remember saying that you were hoping
6 for the best for him on the appeal?
7A
Well . I Shouldn't hure said it it I did . I
8 don't think I did .
Q 1'ou don't remember saying that?
=0 A I don't rememherm
no . Now
. his boys was
ELDON
POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
STATE
OF ILLINOIS
IS
COUNTY
OF PEORIA
I, Aana M . Ciftos,
CSR, RPR, and
Notary
Public
_n and for the County of
Peoria, State of
Illinois, do hereby
certify that heretofore,
to-wit.,
on Friday,
September 15th, 2006,
personally
appeared
before me at 416 Main
Street_, Suite 1400,
Peoria,
Illinois
:
ELDON POLHEMUS, a
~a'_erial witness herein
.
further certify that
the said witness
was
oy me first duly
sworn to testify to
the truth, the
whole truth and nothing
bat the truth in the
cause
aforesaid ; -hat
the testimony
then given by said
witness was reported stenographically
by me in
the
presence of
said witness and
afterwards reduced to
typewriting, and the foregoing
is a true and
correct
transcript_ of the
testimony so given by
said witness
as aforesaid .
1 further certify
that the signature of
the
witness
was not waived .
further certify that I am
not counsel for
nor in any way related to
any- of the parties to
this
suit, nor am I in
any way interested in
the outcome
thereof
.
In testimony wheref,
I hereunto
set my
hand and affix
my notarial s_al on
this day, Monday,
September 25, 2006 .
Aana M . Giftos,
Cerritied Shorthand
Reporter
(State of Illinois
License #084-003571)
My
commission expires 07/24/07
.
OFFICIAL SEAL
AANA M GIFTOS
NOTARY PUBLIC
- STATE
QFILLINOIs f
MY COMMISSION EXPIREC
.07l241U7 I
Page 40
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY
v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
A
Aana 1 :10 40 :') .21
about 3 :17 5 :12 8 :1
8 :6.21 .22 9 :3
14
:1322 .23 15
:1
16:9.16.19 17 :4
18 :20 22 :6,13
.14
22 :24 23 :7 .19
25 :1 27 :10.18
28 :18 29:4.10,12
29 :19 30 :4.16.24
31 :7,11 .18 32 :15
34 :4,7,19
account 11 :1 1 12 :9
12 :9 .11,24 13 :5
accounts 13
:10
acquire 37:7
actual 19:3
actually 9
:7 14
:2
19 :24 20 :20.22
address 3 :24 4 :8.21
4 :23
addresses
4 :12
affix 40:17
aforesaid 39:9.11
40:9,11
after 11 :4 34 :2223
36 :20.20
afterwards 40 :10
again 16
:12 39:10
against 10 :13.17.19
15 :6.11 .15 .23 .24
31 :3 32 :21 .22
33 :12 37 :19
ago 22 : 3)
agreement 3 :12
ahold 14 :2
Akeson 27 :2123
almost 38 :3
along
12
:15 17:9
alphabetically
24 :17
already 31 :7
always
9
:13 14 :4
35 :17
Amy 32:1
another4 :6
answered 14:5
anybody 11 : 15
24:6 25 :8 34 :4
anyone 33 :1 34 :18
anything 8 :21 11 :8
13 :6 17 :13 18 :2
28 :5 35 :2 36 :20
appeal 34 :20 35 :6
35 :20.21
APPEARANCES
1 :15
appeared 40:4
application 9 :1,6.8
19 :3 .6
approach 16:9
appropriate 9:24
10:10
approval 25 :20.22
approve 20:23
April 20 :15,1924
21 :1
area 6 :5 .13 8 :3
27 :2 32 :6 34 :15
around
4 :19 16:14
22 :17
asbestos 8:21
asked 7 :20 31 :7
associated 28:6
34:19
association
29:20
assuming 5 :4
attend
19:10
20:19
20:24
attended 21 :4
attending 21 :6
attorneys
36:14
Auken 32 :15
automobile 5 :1 1
aware 28
:6.9
29 :23
away 11 :5 17 :16
a.m 1 :13
B
back9
:9 14 :11 .20
14:21 18:20 24:9
27 :20
background 4 :15
Barb
32
:15
base 15 :19 32 :22
basic 3 :16
basically 20:5
became
28
:9
become 6:20
before 1 :1 .10 3 :14
4 :24 21
:22 39:1
39 :20 40:5
behalf 1 :20.23
being
3
:2,17 8 :7
32 :17
believe
36:11
.16
believed 36 :18
bell
30
:2 32
:4
best 12 :18 35 :6
Beth
27:21
between
9
:5 10
:23
13 :22 16:16
biggest 7 :10
Bill 30:4.4.6 32 :7
billboards 16 :21,24
17 :1
bit 16:5 24 :9
Black 1
:22.22
Blumenshine 10:2
28 :1 .15
board 1 :2,6 5 :6.8
6 :20.21 8 :5,7 9 :5
9:7 11 :4 12:14
17:18 .20 18 :10,14
20:20.22 24:11,16
25 :5 34 :20 39 :2,6
born 4 :20
boundaries
7
:3,12
boys 35 :10
break 38:3
brief24: 11
briefly 4 :14 7 :2
11 :10
Brimfield 7 :9
Brown 1 :21 .22
Bucklar28
:20 22
28:24
29 :1 .2
Bureau 33:24
business 5 :12 29:20
35 :16
B-U-C-K-L-A-R
29:2
C
call 10
:19 14
:8.11
14:15,16.202021
16:3
called 1 :9 9 :23 10 :9
14:12
calls 9:17 13 :1920
14:4
15
:10.18
16:2 26 :4 28 :18
29:7 31 :21
campaign 33 :3
34:3,13
car 5
:10,14
Cara 31 :23
cardiologist 27 :5
careful3 :17
Carol 24 :22
Cathy
32:9
cause 40:8
certainly 20 :12
Certified 40:21
certify 39 :8 40 :4,7
40:12,14
chairman 8 :10
chance 34:4
change 7 :13 16:10
chapter 10 :5
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Page 41
check 11 :22 39:12
children 6 :4
Chris 3 1 : 16
Church 34:10.10
Cindy 31 :8
Citizens 33 :14
city 4 :2-10.1-2 5 :1 .2
5 :21 8:15 22 :13
23 :4 .9 32 :17
City/Glasford
4 :1
clear 23 :21 28 :14
clerk 11 :8 .15 30 :17
clinics 6 :15
close 27 :1,5
Club 10 :6 28 :7
33 :6 .10 34 :24
coffee 16 :14
Columbus
1 :16
come 10:24 16:17
18 :20 24
:1,6 31 :4
37 :3
comes 21 :16 22 :21
23 :9
coming 36 :17
commencing 1 :12
commission
39:23
40 :22
committee
8 :5 .9 .12
8 :18 17:19 18 :14
20 :21 21 :24 22 :4
communications
9 :3 .11
community 16 :3
27 :11
company 1 :3 9 :1
19 :4 29 :18 39:3
complete 39 :10
computes 6:9
concerning 19 :11
20:1 .16 23
:16
24:7
confusing 18 :21
consensus
16:6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
consider 22 :16 362
37 :24
considered 37:14
37 :16
consisting 39:9
contact 9 :14,16
14 :14 30 :18 34
:21
contacts 9:19.20
contamination
8:19
contributed 33 :19
contribution 33 :4
34:13
contributions 34
:3
CONTROL 1 :2
39 :2
conversation 14 :23
15 :23
Converse
29 :4,10
29:12,14.16.24
Cook 30 :4,5,6
copies 11 : 7,14
12 :10 17:13
correct 4 :4 5 :5
19:12,13 20 :13
39:10 40:10
corrections 39 :15
correctly 18 :15
correspondence
11 :21
Coulter
9:22
34 :18
35
:13,15
council 32 :17
counsel 40:14
count 10 :18,19
37 :24
counting 8 :10
county 1 :6.11 5 :8
6:21 7 :8 .11 8 :15
9:5 11 :4 .8,12.15
11 :16 12 :9.13
13 :1 19 :24 20 :20
22 :13 23 :5.9
29:24 30:17.17
33 :24 35 :24 39 :6
40:2.3
court 1 :10 3 :18
courthouse
4:10
cousin 6 :16 27 :14
covered 28 :13
CSR 1 :11 40:3
curious 21 :14
currently 7 :4
D
D 2:1
daughter 6 :6
DAVID 1 :21
day 39
:20 40
:17
days 20:7
dealership 5 :17.21
6 :3
decision 18:24
34:20 362,17
37 :423
decisions
37
:6,22
deleted 12 :20
Democrat
7 :18.19
Democratic 33 :1
denial 25 :22 37:4
deny 20:23 36 :5,8
36 :23
Department
6:19
deponent 38 :7
deposed 3 :13
deposition 1 :9 3 :11
39:8,11
depositions 1 :10
describe
4:14
5 :4
72
details 18 :4
determined 12
:2
Diane 32 :11
different 32 :5
37 :22
direct 14:5
disagreed
23 :3
discovery 1 :10 3 :10
discuss 17:17,24
23 :12 27
:7,13
30 :20 32 :24
discussed 24 :10
discussions 23 :10
disposal 1 :3 9:1
18:23 19 :4 39 :3
district 7:3 .10,12
17:7 24 :19
dive 3 :21
doctors 6:14
document 18 :12
documents
17 :13
donations 33 :17
done 38 :3 .5
doorbell 24:4
double 24 :9
down 3:19 36:5
Dr26:11,13 .15
.17
26:2123
drop 24:12
duly 3
:2 40 :8
during 7 :15 17 :14
E
E 2:1
each 3 :17 10 :13
26:3
earlier 15 :14
easy
7:5
edge 5 :2
educational 4:15
Edwards 21 :17,19
21 :22 22 :7.16
23 :16 25 :24 34 :7
eight 8 :6 22 :6
either 5 :2 13 :17
14:4 20 :8 24
:21
25 :1
Eldon 1 :9 2 :3 3 :1,8
3 :11 39
:17 40
:6
election 7 :15 .24
Elias 1 :18
Elmo
31
:18
elsewhere 17:7
employment 6:2
end
9:15
20:5
engage 9 :11
engaged 6:13
enough
10:12
enter 1') : 2
Environment
33 :14
environmental
33 :1821 34 :1,12
16 :21 17 :10,17
18 :24 19:23 23 :12
24 :1,6 27:7.13
29 :20 30:20 32:24
33 :3
every 11 :20
everybody 14:20
everything 3 :19
11
:5,9
Evidently 13 :11
examination 1 :9
2 :4 3:4
examined 3 :3
example
9:22 10 :3
excellent 35:16
Except 5 :6
excess 18 :2
executive 6:8
EXHIBITS 2:6
ELDON POLHEMUS
9-15-2006
Page 42
exists 7 :4
expansion
9:1 .12
15 :6.12 16:22
17 :17,24 19 :11
20:1 21 :3 22 :14
23 :7.12,16,20
24 :7.11 25 :1 27 :7
27 :13 .18 36
:3
experience 8 :3,4,17
expert 19:8
expertise 8:2
expires 39:23 40
:22
explain 35 :15
expressed 25
:8
facility 9 :2
fact 14:13 36:9,10
36:11,17,19,22
familiar
29:14
familiarity 29:16
Families 33 :12
family 6:11 27:16
34:18
far 23 :8 33 :8
Farm 33 :24
Farmington 4 :18
7 :7
father 35 :17
favor 15 :6
feel 35 :19
feeling 15 :5
felt 37 :19,20
few 9:17 12:8 13 :21
17 :6 20 :7
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
environmentalist
31
:6 32 :23
Epolhemus(a.peo. ..
4 :9
errata 39:13
ESQUIRE 1 :16.18
27:17
E-L-D-O-N 3 :8
E-mail 4 :8,12
11 :10 .11 12 :9,11
12:24 13 :5,9
E-mails
11 :15,23
1 :21
12:3.6.8,10 .15,17
even 10:12 13:2
12:21 .24 13:13,16
26 :10
ever 3 :13 12 :16.20
F
I
figures 6:10
filed 19:3
20 :4
final 11 :4 18 :8.11
finally 9:7
findings 36:9,10,1 1
36
:17.1922
fine 29 :9
Fire 6
:19
first6 :20 7 :5 9:9
13 :4 20:5 21 :16
22 :1
.14 28 :9 40 :8
five 5 :13
following 33 :5
follows 3 :3
foregoing
39:8
40 :10
forgetting 6:9
formal 18:9
four 5 :12
Friday 1 :11 40:4
friends 27:1
from 8 :7 9 :20
11
:15.15 12 :13
15 :5 .10 18 :13
21
:18.19 23 :16.22
26
:4
.5
.8 28 :15
29:6 31 :14 .21
33 :4 34:13 37:8
37 :11
full
3:6,8
18:14.14
20 :20
Fulton 7 :8
function 8 :11
further 12 :7 38 :7
40:7.12,14
G
Giftos 1 :1 1 40:3.21
give 11 :7 13 :17
15 :20
given 39:8,11 40 :9
40:11
go 4:17 9:17 16:5.8
18 :22 37:9.9
goes 7 :7 .9.9
going9:3,15 17 :22
18 :3,21 21
:12
22 :18 25 :4.6.9,11
25 :12 26:1 33 :5,8
38 :2
good 16 :14 35 :1 .2
37 :24
graduate 4 :16
ground 3:16
grow 4:19
grown 6:4
guess 8 :6 10 :21
31 :2 .4
guessing 32 :20
H
hand 40 :17
handle
14 :16
hands
34
:24
Hanna 4
:1 .1
.20.22
5 :1 .221
happen 34 :20
happened 23 :4
Harant 30:11
hard 35 :21
Harkrader 30:13
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POLHEMUS
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
gather 8:7 37 :3
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
PCB06-184
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PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
21 :12.23 26:1
39 :9
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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30 5 :2
6 :22 8 :6 22 :3,6,8
369-999-14 :7
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0607/24/0706-184
13:23
1:5
401639:17:22:5
6135061550
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1
61602 1 :19
1,000 8 :1
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16 6:22
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Exhibit 8
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
BEFORE THE
ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY,
Petitioner,
-vs-
)NO . PCB 06-184
PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD,
Respondent .
i
The deposition
of PHILLIP ARNOLD
SALZER, a
material
witness herein, called
for examination
pursuant to
notice and the
Supreme Court Rules
as
they
pertain to the
taking of discovery
depositions
before Aana
M . Giftos, CSR,
RPR, and Notary Public in
and
for the County of
Peoria, and State
of Illinois,
on Thursday, September
14th, 2006,
at 416 Main
Street, Suite
1400, Peoria, Illinois,
commencing at
the hour
of 9:00 a.m .
APPEARANCES :
GEORGE
MUELLER, ESQUIRE
528 Columbus Street, Suite
204
Ottawa, Illinois 61350
and
JANAKI
NAIR, ESQUIRE
BRIAN J .
MEGINNES, ESQUIRE
Elias, Meginnes,
Riffle
& Seghetti, P.C .
416 Main Street, Suite 1400
Peoria, Illinois
61602
on behalf of
the Petitioner ;
DAVID
A . BROWN, ESQUIRE
Black, Black
& Brown
101 South Main Street
Morton,
Illinois 61550
on behalf of the
Respondent ;
Page 1
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
ALSO PRESENT :
Royal Coulter, PDC ;
Chris Coulter, PDC ;
I N D E X
WITNESS
PHILLIP ARNOLD SALZER
Examination by Mr
.
Mueller
. pg .
'EXHIBITSS
IDENTIF-ED
Salzer Exhibit
No
.
24
. . pg . 18
Salzer
Exhibit No . 25
. pg . 35
, Indicates exhibits were withdrawn by
Petitioner's
counsel ; not attached hereto .
Page 2
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCIE, 06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 3
P'a^-
A Okay .
Q First of all, everything that either of us
says is being taken down by a court reporter . So
only one of us can speak at a time . That means I
will wait for you to finish an answer before I ask
another question, and I would ask for you to wait
for me to finish the question before you start to
answer .
Secondly, ass ou're nodding your head . I
will tell you that the court reporter can't take
down nonverbal gestures and communications, so we
need
to keep all of our answers verbal, preferably
in the forms of yeses and nos rather than uh-huh
and huh-uh and things like that .
Do you understand all of that?
A Yes .
Q You also understand that you're under oath?
A Yes .
Q If I ask you a question and it isn't clear,
feel free to have me rephrase it and I will he
happy to do that
. If you answer a question, I'm
going to assume that you understood it and intended
the answer, is that fair?
A Yes .
Page 6
•
Mr
. Salzer, where do you reside?
A
3101 North Old 'I rail Road . Peoria. 61604
.
•
How long have you resided at that address?
A Since 1977 . March .
•
What county board district is that in?
A That is district number 8
.
•
Can you give us the approximate boundaries
of your district?
A It goes south to Gilbert in the Hamilton
Pages 3 to 6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
10
Board?
10 Park Area. In the Wardeliff area it is south to
11
A Yes
.
11 Preston . On the -- it runs along the Interstate
12
Q Let the record show this is the deposition
12 1-74 taking in the shopping center Northwoods Mall
13 of Phillip Salzer taken pursuant to notice by
13 over north to -- it doesn't include all the Big
14 agreement of parties and in accordance with rules .
14 1lollow area . some on the south and west to
Mr
. Salzer, have you ever had your
15 Lexington Highlands
. Creighton Woods . Lexington
16 deposition taken before in any case for any reason?
16 Hills on the west
. down to almost Route 8 . "1 hat's
17
A Yes .
17 approximately it .
16
Q So you are generally familiar with the
19
Q
Mr
. Salzer, you brought with you today
19 ground rules and procedures to he followed during a
19
copies of some handwritten notes or at least your
20 deposition, and I don't need to review those rules
2 0 attorney did, is that correct?
21 with _you?
21
A Correct .
22
A I'm not totally sure that I recall
22
Q Are those notes in your handwriting?
23 everything .
23
A Yes.
2 4
Q Let's do it briefly then
.
2 4
Q When were they generated?
CERTIFIED QUESTION
3 WHEREUPON THE I Of LOWING QUESTION WAS ASKED BY
4
I't
:FITIONERS COUNSEl AND OBJECTED TO AND CERTIEIE[) AS
FOLLOWS
0
Page 1$
.l .ine II
9
Q
Did you lake all of those into
9
0 consideration for what they were worth in reaching
10
11
your final decision?
1 -
12
Page I9_ Line I5
13
Q Mr question to you is, were,you taking the
1 4
15 content of those letters and phone calls oral
15
1e least some of them into consideration in making
16
17 your final decision?
17
18
18
19
19
2 0
21
22
23
Page 4,
24
1
PHILLIP ARNOLD SALZER .
a material witness herein . being duly sworn . was
.~
examined and testified as follows :
EXAMINATION
BY MR . MUELLER :
B
Q Good morning, Mr. Salzer . Would you state
your name for the record, please?
A Phillip Arnold Salzer .
Q You are a member of the Peoria County
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 7
A Some ()fit in the hearing
. some ofit in tut
1
reading. Basically . that's it
.
2
Q All right
. So the notes are--were
3
created more or less contemporaneously with who
you found interesting to write about at the time
;
in other words, if you made notes about the
6
hearings, they would have been created during the
hearing, if you made a note about something that
you were reading, you would have created it while
9
10
you were reading it as opposed to in preparation
10
1.1
for these proceedings?
12
A I don't quite understand .
12
Q I could have asked that better
. I'm just
13
14
trying to understand if you made these notes during 14
1 5
the hearings and at the time that you were getting
15
16
ready for a decision or if this is something you
16
17
compiled after the fact?
18
A Much of
it had to do with my reading .
19
Q Okay
. Let me ask you another question .
2,
Were all of these notes made at once or is this
21
kind of like you wrote a little bit at a time?
22
A Well . I wrote it as
. you know . I read . I
23
didn't read everything in one day .
2 4
Q That's my question . You made these notes
24
at the Labor 0 couple .
Page 8
1
as you went along in your reading?
1
2
A
Yes .
2
3
Q Now, let's do a little more on your
3
4
background, sir
. Can you tell us your education?
4
A I've got a BS degree from Bradley
6
University with a major in physical education and
social studies and a minor in English
. That was in
8
1961
. I've got a muster's in education from the
8
9 University of Illinois in 1966
.
9
10
After that time
. I took 68 hours beyond my
10
11
muster's from various colleges as the% offered
11
12
courses usually in this area or else I attended
12
13 that particular seminar where they gave credit in
13
14
the area of which I was generally teaching
.
14
1 5
Q
Then you spent your professional life as an 15
16 educator?
16
17
A
As a teacher .
17
1 e Q Where was that at?
18
19 A I started teaching in 1961 in Farmer City
.
19
20 Illinois
. and then I came to Peoria High School 2 C
21
where I taught most of the rest of my career .
'
21
22 Q When did you retire, sir?
22
23 A I retired in 1994 as a teacher
. I
23
24
continued
to help in an area at
school after that
24
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
D
6
7
Pace 9
until about 1999
.
•
I understand you had Royal Coulter actually
as a student when he was in high school?
A Yes . I did .
•
And you also coached him?
A I did not coach him
. I sass him play .
•
Mr
. Coulter indicates that he's had based
upon your having been one of his teachers a
lifelong warm relationship with you?
A Certainly
.
•
It must have been difficult for you then to
vote against the expansion?
A Yes. it ryas .
•
Have you ever been to the Peoria Disposal
site?
A To the best of what I
recall . no .
•
Do you recall being offered the opportunity
for a tour of the site and declining it at any
point in time?
A Yes .
•
When was that?
A
Royal called me on the phone . I cannot
remember the exact date
. I know I was standing down
Page 10
•
This would have been before he filed his
application, correct?
A Yes .
•
Why did you decline the opportunity to
visit the site?
MR
. BROWN : You can go ahead and
answer if you can do so without getting into
attorney-client communications .
THE WITNESS
: I was advised on that .
BY
•
MR
. :
MUELLER
Mr
. Salzer, was that advice that had come
from an attorney for the county or did it come from
some other person?
A
It came from an attorney .
•
For the county?
A
They work for another law firm that was
employed b\ the county
.
•
Well, the reason I'm asking is because it's
our understanding that somewhere early in this
process one or two Assistant State's Attorneys may
have advised the board on certain dos and don'ts
with regard to the procedure
. I don't want to get
into what that advice was
.
If there were other attorneys involved in
Pages 7 to 10
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Pace
giving advice, I'd be very interested . So if you
say it was from a law firm, then I guess I need to
know when this advice was given and who it was
4
given by?
.A It was given at a committee meeting by an
""as of it .
I'm going to ask the reporter to certif
the question
. and if you want to reconsider your
direction . feel free to do so . May he I will hate
her read it back .
MR . BROWN : That will he line .
(Record read as requested .)
MR
. BROWN : I don't know how that
could he anything other than asking how he event
about his -- arriving at his final decision .
MR . Mt1El .l .IIR : I'm not asking hoo he
arrived at it . I'm asking what he considered . the
question's been certified, I will move o n .
B Y MR. MIIFLI .ER :
•
Mr . Salzer, did you have an understanding
that the applicant, meaning Peoria Disposal
Company, and its people could not talk to you
outside the hearing process about the application?
A No . I did not.
• Even while the application was pending, you
thought that anyone involved with it was free to
communicate with you personally or by E-mail or
phone call or letter about the application, is that
correct?
PaaF-
•
In the law business, Mr
. Salzer, we often
use the phrase for what it's worth
. You're
familiar with that phrase?
A I've heard the phrase .
•
So a judge will say . I will receive that
evidence for what it's worth, meaning that he'll
determine how good it really is and how much he's
going to consider it
.
Did you take the same view with
communications that you got about the application
from members of the general public?
A I believe I did .
•
Did you take all of those into
consideration for what they were worth in reaching
your final decision?
MR . BROWN : I'm going to object_ I' his
line of questioning is going into his mental
decision-making process ""hick is not grounds of
inquire that's permitted into these proceedings .
I'm going to object anti instruct the "" itness not to
answer that question .
MR . MUELLER : Mr . Brown . I don't think
that question does cross the line . I think it goes
into the burden of proof and "chat his understanding
Pag< : 14
Pages 11 to 14
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
F auorne\ from Ilossard & Howard that had been
employed by the eounl~ .
1 C:
11
12
35
14
1 E
I B
Q Which committee was that?
A Health and em ironment .
Q Do you remember when that committee meeting
B
9
11
12
13
114
15
16
17
1F
took place?
A
It was in the . I think "-inter out at
Bel-Wood Nursing I Ionic . I'm going to sac I -- I'm
guessing may he F'ebruar) . March .
Q of 2005?
A It was before the application was filed .
Q Right . So it was your understanding that
you should not from that point on base any
1 9
20
2 3_
22
2 _
24
communication with Peoria Disposal ('ompam or its
people including members of the Cooper family?
19
20
2 1
22
2 3,
24
A We were instructed not to discuss it with
amone and to take an attitude of listen . You can
listen to people. but you cannot give opinions and
so forth .
Page 1
Q Well, isn't taking a site tour pretty much
the same thing as listening?
A
Q
Could he.
In fact, you did listen to a lot of
different input from different people outside of
5
the hearing process on this application, didn't
6
you?
7
A Yes
.
6
9
Q Is it your belief that you were -- while
9
10 you weren't supposed to talk to anyone and express 1 0
your views, it was useful to get the views of
11
17 everyone including your constituents?
12
13
A
Not really .
14
Q How so not really?
14
15
A It was a waste of time in some cases .
16
Q I couldn't agree with you more . In other
16
17 cases, though, you did receive useful information
17
__9
from constituents and members of the public outside ' 9
the hearing process, right?
19
2 0
A I can't say that I absolutely did .
20
21
Q
Well, can you say that you absolutely
22
didn't?
22
23
A
I tried to he ver' open-minded and listen
24 and not make am commitments of any type to amone . 24
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 15
A Yes .
1
•
That as long as you didn't express views
and didn't prejudge, you were doing your job?
A Correct .
•
I guess that being the case, I realls don't
understand now more than ever w by you didn't accept
6
your long-time friend and former student's
imitation in Februar, of 2005 to tour his facility
that he's pretty proud of
10
MR
. BROWN : Objection . I don't think
1
11
that's a question
. I think it'sjust a statement .
1'1
12 BY MR . Ml1t.LLLR
:
1 2
17
Q Then I will put it in the form of a
13
14 question
. That having been said, can you tell me
14
17,
if there is any other reason why you didn't take
15
16
the lour of the PD( site on Royal Coulter's
16
1 '
invitation besides your interpretation of advice
21
given from a lawyer at a committee meeting
.?
19
19
A Repeat that one more time
. please .
19
20 Q You've already testified that the reason 20
you didn't take or accept Mr
. Coulter's invitation
21
22
for a tour of his facility was because of advice
22
I3
that you had gotten at a committee meeting
.
23
24
My question simply is, is there an other
24
Page 16 .
reason why you didn't accept that invitation?
1
A No .
•
Row long have you been on the county hoard?
A Since 2002 .
4
•
Do you remember the name of the lawyer from
E
Howard & Howard who gave the advice at that
6
committee meeting?
7
A l agiella
. i s that her correct name? Is
9
that the name?
10
MR
. MFGINNES : Jagiella . Diana
10
11
lagiel la .
11
12
13Y MR
. MUI :.LI .LR :
12
13
Q Who was present at that committee meeting?
14
A
I don't know &I can tell exerN body who
15
was present
. I would assume that the chairman. Pat
1 5
16
I lidden . I would assume Carol I rumpe
. I'm trvmg
1 6
17
to think who else is on that committee
.
1
1 P
Riggenbach
. Lynn Pearson probabh . I don't know it'
19
they were all there
. I'm lust trying to think of
19
20 the committee members
. Our lawyer probabh was
20
21
present who -although maybe not in 2002
.
2 1
22
Q W as any of the county staff there such as
23
Pat Urich??
2-3
24
A I do not recall .
0
age
•
Going back for a second to what you said
that you understood that you
-- it was appropriate
for all sides on the issue to contact you
privately .
Is it then fair that you understood that
you should take the content of all of those
communications into consideration in making your
decision?
A I didn't think I could take them all in
. it
I didn't have time to read them all
.
•
But the ones that you read and you were
aware of, did you
-- obviously, you must have felt
it was appropriate to take all of those -- all of
those for what they were worth into consideration
in reaching your final decision?
A
That's ditfcult to answer
.
•
What's difficult about that question that
makes it hard to answer?
A
Because some crackpot letters
. you know . I
just discarded those .
•
But the ones that weren't crackpot letters
that offered substantiative information which
wasn't at the hearing those you felt you were free
to consider?
Page 10
A Yes
. but I didn't consider e' en thing.
•
Let me ask it a different way . Do you
recall being interviewed by the Journal Star after
the May meeting and saying that you've got to
listen to your constituents?
A Best of my recollection
. I don't really
recall that .
•
Actually, you said that before the vote, I
believe, sometime in April
. Do you recall saying
that at that time?
Let me withdraw the last question,
Mr
. Salzer, and make it easier for you .
(Salzer Exhibit No . 24 marked)
BY' MR
. MUELLER :
•
I'm going to show you a copy of an article
.
I'm assume this is from the Peoria Journal Star
.
It's dated April 15th, 2006
. Do you recall -- or
April 5th, 2006 .
If I direct you to the second column about
halfway down the page where it starts with Phil
Salzer said, if you could read the quote for us
.
A Phil Salzer said
. I'm uncommitted but added
most of the phone calls and letters he has received
lrom constituents are opposed to the expansion
.
Pages 15 to 18
PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPANY V . PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 19
recollection, is that statement true?
I
A To the best of my recollection . yes .
Q I believe this would have been right before
the committee of the whole vote.
`^
What did you mean by this statement,
1 C
Mr. Salzer?
1 0
'
A
Just what it says . I was uncommitted, but
11
1 L
many, many people throughout the area had, you
12
1 3 know, sent letters . They made phone calls, but I
1
1 4
was still keeping an open mind on it .
' 4
1 5
Q My question to you is, were you taking the
15
16 content of those letters and phone calls or at
` 16
17
least some of them into consideration in making
-
8
your final decision?
1 P
19
MR. BROWN : I'm going to object again.
19
20
You're getting into the actual decision-making
- 20
2 i process . the mental process of which he went about 21
22 making his decision .
22
23
Prior questions have been geared toward
23
24
what he understood he could do, but this one
24
Page 20
actual l' goes into the actual thought process
.
I'm going to object and I'm going to
instruct him not to answer the question .
3
4
MR . MUELLER : Let's certify that
4
5
question as well .
5
76
Let me ask the next one .
6
BY MR . Ml IEL.LI'R :
Q Was it your belief, Mr
. Salzer, at the time
p
you made this statement on or about April 4th or
9
10
5th that you could and should take the content of
10
1
I
. the phone calls, letters and E-mails that you were
11
12 getting or at least the content in those phone
! 12
3
calls, letters and E-mails that you thought was
13
1 4 worthy and not crackpot into consideration in
14
15 making your decision?
15
16
A No . I didn't .
16
1 %
Q What did you think then about what you
1
1 a
should do with the content of the communications 19
19 you were receiving from constituents?
15
20
A As
long as they weren't from the public
2 0
21 record . I was just listening .
21
22
Q You were just listening?
22
23
A I would just listen to these people .
23
24
Q What was the point of listening if you
24
•
So the phrase you've got to listen to your
constituents means that -- let me ask it a
different way .
W hen I read your statement, you've got to
listen your constituents. I perceive that as
meaning you cannot ignore the desires of your
constituents.
Is that a fair interpretation?
A You might interpret it that ttas . but that's
an expression oftentimes to just let people knots
that your re listening to them . It doesn't mean
that yon hayc to vote their wt ishes
.
•
So the answer is when you were saying this
you felt that you were free to ignore what you
apparently described as overwhelming expressions of
opposition?
MR . BROWN : Objection . I don't think
he ever used the term
overwhelming
at am time in
his testimom .
Page _2
BY MR . MIJI :LLI'R :
•
Did you feel -- strike that .
Mr . Salzer, with regard to the
communications that you had received, how many
would you have received from E-mails?
A The only [-mails I recciyed came by wa' of
a county hoard or the county hoard administration
otice because I do not have E-mail
.
•
Did you have an E-mail address at the
county board?
A I had things mailed to me from Nancy Carter
from the county hoard . So I assume I have an
f: mail there .
•
Well, you do have some type of E-mail
address, don't you? Psalzerna peoriacounty.org "
.
A I guess they made one out for me .
•
All right . Would somebody at the county
actually take the E-mails that came to that address
and print them out and put them in your mailbox?
A usually did that. Nancy Carter I think did
that.
•
Then the county would either put them in
your mailbox or forward them to you by mail?
A Yes .
Pages 19 to 22
PEOR
:A
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
You've got to listen to your constituents .
weren't going to consider it?
Q Do you recall making that statement?
A I think you satisfy 'our constituents by
A
I probably made something similar to that .
listening to shat the) have to sa . I didn't want
Q All right . To the best of your
to . yon know . just turn so in eh ,ds oll :
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Q Did you attend the public hearings,
Mr. Salzer?
A On the landfill?
Q \ cc
.
A Yes .
Q All of them?
A No .
Q With regard to the hearings that y ou did
not attend, did you read the transcripts of those?
A Yes
. most of them .
Q Did you have discussions about the
application with any of the county staff members .?
A To the best of my recall . no .
Q Did you have discussions about the
application or the decision-making process with an)
other hoard members?
A The application?
Q Any discussions about the PD(' application,
the hearings, the decision with other hoard
members?
A Yes .
Q What board members did you have discussions
with?.
A Bill Prather
. Alien Mayor .
Page
•
When did you talk to Allen Mayer?
A Once when I had returned front a trip . I
called him .
•
Can you tell us what month that was in?
A March .
•
So sometime after the February hearings
were done and before the April meetings?
A Yes .
•
What was the purpose of your call?
A I had a question about the hydraulically
connected
. hydraulically connected the--to the
Sankoty
.
• Was there any communication that you'd
received from any members of the public that
prompted you to ask that question?
A Yes .
•
Who would you have received communication
from?
A A former student of mine
. I do not recall
his name . but he called to tell me that the
Sankoty
. the aquifer was not directly under of the
landfill
. Ile was in favor of the landfill . Ile
lived in the Lexington I lills area . I believe . I
can't remember the kid's name
. I want to say
Pages 23 to 26
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
1
2
Q Haw many such E-mails would you have
received?
A I could not tell son that .
Q Would it have been more than 11111?
A I cannot say .
Q How long have you been on the counts hoard,
6
Mr. Salzer?
-
A Six tears. I scent on in 2002 . So--
8
9
Q Are you in the middle of a term right now?
-
10
A
Middle of a tern . ses
.
10
11 Q Are you a Democratic hoard member?
~ 1
12
A I am a Democrat . yes .
12
1
Q Dow many letters did you receive at your
13
house regarding this application?
14
A I never kept track
.
15
1 6
Q Do you have an approximate count?
16
17
A No . I don't.
18
Q U'ould it have been less than 50?
"2 8
19
A I can't answer that .
19
2
Q Did you receive phone calls regarding the
20
21 application?
21
22 A Yes .
22
23 Q How many phone calls would you say you have
23
received?
24
2
Page 24
A Eight. 10. 12 . something like that .
Q Do you remember if you received any phone
3
c
alls from Joyce Blumenshine?
5
A May have been on a recorder
. I don't know .
I can't remember.
5
6
Q Do you remember if you received any phone
6
7
calls from Kim Converse?
7
8
A Do not know that name.
E
9
Q Did you receive any phone calls from Tom
10 Edwards?
10
11
A To the best that I can recal I . no .
11
12
Q Were there yard signs opposed to the
12
13 facility in your district?
13
149
A Yes .
14
_ ; Q Approximately, how many would you say that 15
1 6
you saw?
16
17
A
My exact district . I didn't earn the
17
18 entire district
.
18
19
Q Just give me a ballpark of what you
19
20
remember .
20
21
A five or six
.
21
22
Q Did you also see billboards opposed to this
22
23 expansion?
23
24
A One .
24
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page
Z_
Johnson or somethina like that . 1 le was one of my
former students .
3
Q So you wanted to check that piece of
information out, and you called Mr . Mayer?
A
I wanted to know what was meant by this
hydraulically connected --how it was hydraulically
connected to the landfill .
•
You could have called me .
A Could I?
10
Q But probably best that you didn't. So you
10
7 1
called Allen Mayer, and I assume the conversation
11
goes something like you're saying, you know, I'm
12
1
hearing that the Sand Cody is not hydraulically
133
14 connected to where this landfill is, is that true?
14
16
15 Right?
A I don't know if I said it exactly that was
15
.
1 6
7 Q But to that general effect?
' 1
15
A I'm trying to think how I asked him . Ifs
16
_
been so long ago
.
19
•
To be fair, why don't you tell us the best
2 0
of your recollection how you did ask that?
2'_
A I'm thinking.
22
23
Q Takeyourtime .
23
4
A I think I may have said . Allen . Mint does
24
Page 28
1
this mean . hydraulically connected .
1
2
Q What did Mr. \layer say to you?
2
A I don't recall it 'l call give his exact
3
4
words .
4
J
Q What was the substance of what he said?
5
6
A I don't think I can really answer our
6
question .
7
•
Meaning you don't remember what he told you 8
9 or you didn't understand what he told you or you
9
10 don't want to tell me what he told you?
10
11
A I would tell Not] it 'l understood c\ cr\ thing
that he explained to me .
12
13 Q Well, the parts that he explained that you "13
14 did understand, can you relate that to us?
14
15
A Well . that basically the Sankoty
aquifer
15
16 what I understood "as our drinking water cons still
16
17 hydraulically connected . and there could he a
17
18 danger to it .
1 B
19
Q Now, Mr . Salzer, you said you were at some
19
20 of the hearings in February, right? 20
21
A The very first one
.
21
22 Q So you were only at the first one out of 22
23 the five that we had?
23
24
A Correct .
24
Page '9
•
But then you said you read transcripts of
the others or at least some of them?
A I read as much as I could. yes.
•
How much was that:'
A I read most of it .
•
Mr. Mayer was on the hearing committee
. So
he was actually asking questions of the witnesses .
Do you remember seeing that sshen you were
there and reading that?
A I can't remember what he exactly asked .
•
I'm not asking you what he asked, but do
you remember that he was asking questions?
A I le asked questions
.
•
Now
. I knew the first time he opened his
mouth that he was probably our staunchest opponent
on the county hoard . You could tell that right
away from his questions .
So my question to you is . didn't you know
that he was by that point strongly opposed to this
expansion?
.
A I assumed .
•
Then why would he he the guy that you would
ask for technical advice after all he's just a
lawyer like me, he doesn't know much? Why would
Page 30
you ask him for technical advice when you could
have figured that he's going to tell you, of course
it will pose a danger to the drinking water?
A
I asked him probably because I'm closer to
him from the standpoint of the Democrat patty and
yye attend some meetings t ogether. so lorth .
•
You realize the county actually had hired
engineers and hydrogeologists to go over this
application?
A Who did?
•
The county. Did you ever think about
asking them?
A No . I didn't .
•
Did you read the county's -- county staffs
recommendations and report?
A Most of it .
•
You're aware that the county stai
r s report
actually said it wouldn't pose a danger and
recommended approval, right?
A The county hoard -- or the county
staff
f did
recommend approval .
• You thought it was probably because you
were close to him, better to rely on Mr . Mayer's
advice on this subject?
Pages 27 to 30
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Pages 31 to 34
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
P age
6
A I did not rely on him totally .
Q
Now, do you know who Roger Monroe is?
A Yes .
Q Who's he?
A
Roger was the person that preceded me in
3
Q
Now, by the way, your wife had opposition
to this expansion, also, didn't she?
A MN scilc'7
Q Yes .
A Yes
. She probably opposed it .
the county board seat .
Q Did she strongly encourage you to vote no
8
Q
Is he someone that you're still close to?
A Yes .
on this thing?
A
I don't belie% c she eccr strongls ads ised
9
Q Did you promise him before the final vote
me to core yes or no .
1 0 that you would vote against this application?
13
Q Who's Sharon Morris?
11
A Absolutely not .
13
A I don't know Sharon Morris
.
14
Q Did you ever tell him you were going to
12
13
14
Q Mr
. Salzer, have you or any of your
vote against it?
immediate family members ever been a patient of
A
I don't recall that .
Dr . McLean?
1 6
Q
A
You know he was opposed to it, don't you?
Sir, he said he was in favor of it
.
1=
1 6
A
Q
No .
Dr . Lorenz?
1?
Q
He did?
-1
A No .
'_
8
A
He told me -- I was sitting on the show one
19
Q Dr
. Midas".
19 morning
19
A
No .
20 Q Who's JimDillon?
20
Q Dr. Zwicky?
21
A Jimmy Dillon is --he's the mayor of West
21
A No .
22 Peoria .
22
Q Dr. Parker McRae?
2 3
Q
Did he ever express to you his opinion on 23
A No .
2
the application?
Page
24
Q
A
Q
Dr . Steven Smith?
Page 34
Steve Smith . is he an orthopedist'
Yes .
A I know he called and I discussed it scith
him .
3
Q You were aware that the local doctors by
A
Yes.
4 and large were opposed to the expansion
. weren't
3
Q
You've been a patient of his?
you?
9
A
Q
A
Q
A
No.
Your immediate family?
Yes .
Who would that include?
Mother
.
A Yes .
Q Now, do you have any children who live in
the Peoria area
A No .
10
Q Do you have any immediate relatives who
1 0 Q How long ago?
11
have employment in the Peoria area in any aspect of
A
That's about the time she went into the
12 the medical services industry?
~2
nursing home
. that would have been 1999
.
13
A What do you mean by immediate relatkcs?
13
Q How about Dr
. McGee?
14
Q Nephews, nieces .
14
A No .
15
A Stepnicce .
1 5 Q Dr. Akeson?
165 Q What does she do?
16 A No .
17
A She's a nurse
.
1 7
Q Have you ever been to a meeting of the
16
Q At one of the hospitals here?
19 Sierra Club or a function of the Sierra Club or
any
y
A Yes .
19
other organization with environmental interests?
2 -
Q How close to her are you?
20
A 1 hat's a long-time question
.
21
A Not yen close.
21
Q Let's make it within the last five years
.
22
Q Would that be the closest relative that's
2 2
A No .
23 i n the medical services industry?
Q Do you know Joyce Blumenshine?
24
A Yes .
24
A No . I knost -- I knor, who she is
.
PHILLIP
SALZER
9-14-2006
13
_4
15
16
16
20
2'-
24
on the site hearing subcommittee?
A Correct .
Q How is it that you were taken off of that?
A I knew I was committed to working some
conferences and would not he able to he in
attendance for all of the hearings . and I thought
it would he unfair for me to make a decision there
on the subcommittee in regard to that .
Q Was it your understanding that the
subcommittee was supposed to make a decision on
this thing, also?
20
A No . What a subcommittee from what I
21
understood tvas going to listen to even thing . ask
22
questions and so forth and listen to the hearing:
23
and then eventualh the subcommittee--the
24
Page
information then mores on to us . and the hoard
would then make the decision .
Q It's actually an interesting point here,
Mr. Salzer . I'm not trying to trick you because it
was our belief that the site hearing subcommittee
was going to listen to the evidence and make a
recommendation to the full board and then that
never happened .
Was it your belief, also, that the site
subcommittee, site hearing subcommittee was going
to make a recommendation?
A I'm not totally sure that I did understand
that the% there going to vote and so forth
. but I
knew that I wasn't going to he there to he kind of
the ones that sat there through all six meetings or
however meetings we had and he the so-called front
line group that would ask questions and gather all
the information .
'Then we would then come to that very last
site -- it wasn't a site hearing . but it was the
one where we could then ask questions and so forth .
but I figured that the% would he so thorough in
asking a lot of the questions and getting -
information on to the regular hoard .
Page 3N
•
Do you know how it came about that the site
hearing subcommittee never made a recommendation'!
A No
. I don't .
•
Were you invobed with NIr . Slayer or anyone
else in making that decision?
A No .
•
Now, you brought some notes here today .
You have a copy of them in front of you . We want
to ask about some of these entries on Your notes .
looks like--the second statement down it looks
like it says, Agree, risk, I'm concerned about
this. Do you see where I'm at?
A Yes . I think I see that. yeah .
•
When did you write that down?
Pages 35 to 38
PEOP.IA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pace
Q Do you know any members of the Converse
1
family ??
4
A No .
Q Other than Royal C oulter, did you have any
5 of the participants of this hearing in school?
4
6
A I'd have to go through that in regard to
6
F
9
NN ho spoke at all those testimonies or. you know
the comments from the c rowd . s o forth .
i
Q So to make it fair, is there anything that
9
10 jumps out at you as that's a former student of
10
it mine?
1i
12 A No .
12
Q How long have you known Allen Mayer?
13
14
A I'm trying to think when he came to Peoria
.
14
Q Approximately how many years?
15
1 6
A
I'm in ing to think when he may have come
1 6
to Peoria
. If he came here around 2000 . that's
probabh when I first met him .
16
9 Q How did you get to know him?
19
2C
A Through Democrat politics
.
20
2~
MR . MUELLER : Oft the record .
21
22
(Discussion off the record .)
22
20
3
(Salzer Exhibit No . 25 marked)
23
MR . MI If 1 .1.1-R : Back on the record .
2 4
1
Page 36
BY MR . MUELLER :
2
Q Mr . Salzer, just a few more questions here .
2
3 The billboard that you remember seeing opposed to
s
4 the site, do you recall where it was?
4
5
A I believe it was at Gate and Sterling .
5
6
Q Is that the one over by Theo's Ice Cream
Parlor and Holy Family Church?
B
P
A
Q
Correct .
At one time, sir, weren't you slated to be
10
A Can _you read them?
11
Q You know, actually, they're not bad, better
12
than my handwriting .
13
The first page -- or let me ask you first
14 of all, are these notes in some kind of
15 chronological order?
16
A Not necessarily .
1 7
Q Okay . There's no dates on them either.
16
A No . there's not .
1 y
Q The first page there's a statement that
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Pace 39
0
A Our people is worth it . I lust altwys
question nl' self
•
Do you remember when that note was made?
A I can't remember
.
•
Do you remember what that note references?
A I o the best of mt recollection . that's --
it prohah h might he with the liner . that's wh.N
I
don't knots whether these arc out of order or +that
•
What's the next statement after that?
A Disadvantage--
•
No, before . above that one
.
A Bottom line is money
. Many . many people .
OU know
. ahtats sac the bottom line is monet
. and
I don't feel
-- I don't necessarily feel that the
bottom line is money .
I think I may hase read a newspaper article
while I was reading different things and jotted
that down because
--
Q So you think
--
A And I was going to say
. you know . it's just
like -- this is in regard to the Journal Star
personal text on the PDC or the family . and I tt ill
say it right here
. I don't think that the bottom
A
I guess I should have dated all of these .
Pages 39 to
42
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Q Then right above the phone number it says,
Q Then if we go to the fourth statement, did
Page 40
Page 42
2
Not problem --
I --can you finish that one for me, same page?
A Chloride .
A
Did I understand eyervthing? Absolutely
4
Q Not problem with chloride
.
not . Probably some of that technical stuff in
A
I think I read somewhere in there where
there,
6
somebody's testimony . I can't --
it might have been
Q Why would you have written that or when did
that guy on _groundwater
. Give me some names of
7
you write that statement and what was that in
8
those guys that testified
. I'm trt ing to think .
reference to?
9
Q
Well, you know, if you can't recall, then
A
Probably some of the technical reading
.
10
you've answered my question .
10
some of the application
. I may have referred hack
A
The groundwater gu\
.
to something .
12
Q Armstrong?
12
Q Did somebody ask you if you understood all
13
A I'm truing to think who was the guy in
13
of the testimony and is that why you wrote that
19
charge of monitoring the groundwater .
14
down?
1
Q Armstrong?
15
A Nobody --
I never talked to anybody on
16
A
Barrows.
16
that .
17
Q Larry Barrows, the mad scientist
.
17
Q Next statement is
-- starts with, I'm 67.
16
A
I think that's who it was .
1 k
A
Do I want to he remembered .
1 9
Q
If we could turn to the fifth page of your
19
Q Remembered as what?
20
notes and we took the liberty of numbering your
20
A I'm trying to think of that
. I can't read
21
copy .
21
my own writing .
22
A (hank _you .
22
Q As one who caused this, is that what it
23
Q
At the very top it says, I don't think
23
says?
2 4
safety of --
can you finish what it says?
24
A It may .
That might
hate been something that
--I'm trying
to think
. Unitersity of lexas president--
Q Dr. Daniel?
4
A Dr. Daniel
. he had made something about I
5
think it was leakage and said
-- you know+ . he
6
talked about I think a leak in the liner . that
7
eycry liner leaks or something like that .
12
Q W ere you present for the testimony of
Dr
. Daniel?
A
No .
Q
Did someone ever tell you that even
Dr
. Daniel admitted that all liners will eventually
13
_4 leak?
11
4
A Nobodt told me that . no .
15
16
Q Then there's a phone number at the
16
bottom --
17
18 A
You know what . I don't know what that phoney 6
19 number is
. I might have written it down
. I'd have
19
2C
to call the phone number to see what it even is
.
20
21
Q Off the top of your head, do you know where 21
22 the 727 area code is?
22
23
A
I think that's somebody from Florida may
23
24
ave c
lled me at some tim . I'm not sure
24
line is always money .
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Pages 43 to 46
PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
PCB06-184
Pane 43
9919
Q
Do you remember when you wrote that
statement?
A No . I can't say that I do
.
Q
Had somebody told you that if you voted
--
Do you know Dr. Scott?
A No . I don't
.
Q
Is that just a reference to something that
you might have read that he said?
everybody who voted in favor of the application
would be held accountable for consequences?
A If it teas in the comments or testilion'
.
that's probably where I picked it up.
A In some letters
. people indicated that they
Q
Did you ever have any conversations with
I .
would not rote lot someone
. which I could hate
cared less.
Q
If we go down on the same page two more
lines it looks like it says, Allen, is the
ground --or is the barrel trench area at issue?
10
11
i
Dr . Scott?
A
I do not know Dr. Scott .
Q
If you turn to page 8, at the very top it
says, Dr
. Zwicky, Dr
. Vidas, and then it looks like
another name that starts with a B .
A
I was going to call him and ask him in
2
A Better. Dr
. Vidas I thought did a better
job than Dr . Zwicky
. Dr . Zwicky I thought did
terrible. I thought Dr
. Vidas did better. From
what I read --
I'm not going to talk .
17
regard to the barrel trench because I hadn't gotten
all that inliwmatioit and I neter called It iin
.
Q How many times did you call Mr
. Mayer for
answers about things in the application during the
14
13
16
1 7
Q All right . That's fine
. And underneath it
18 entire process?
18 says, Doctors spoke with one voice
.
A
I only called him that one time that I
19
Are those your words or did you hear that
20 recall
. To the best of my recollection . that's the
20 from somebody else?
21
only time I called him teas on that hydraulically
21
A
In the letter
.
2 ?. connector.
22
Q
In a letter that you got?
Q
Next page, it's page 6, if I take you about
23
A In a letter that I think they put out to
two-thirds of the way down the page you've got a
2 4 all the board members .
3
Page 44
big star next to one item
.
3
Page
Q That --
who's "they"?
A
Probably Zwicky . Didn't he put the letter
out''
A Michael Brown
.
Q Right
. What did Mr. Brown have to say here
4
or in the note? What does the note say about
4
Q
It was significant to you that the doctors
5 Michael Brown?
5 spoke with one voice, and that's why you wrote it
9
A Michael Brown . page 365
. must hate been
6
8
9
down?
some testimony
. wmer supply . EPA . even landf ill
leaks .
A I probably did
.
Q
If we could go to page 12, about two-thirds
Q Who is Michael Brown?
of the way down the page you have a big starred
1 C
A
You know o hat . I can't answer that .
10
item that says, I think there is --
11
Q Is he the pastor of the Universalist
11
A Enough
.
12
Unitarian Church that's in your district?
. 12
Q Of a
. Enough what?
13
A
I really can't answer that because I don't
13
A
01'a threat to our water supply
.
'14
knots the individual .
-4
Q When was that statement written?
13
Q Have you ever been inside that Universalist
1
A
It might have been written after I read
16 Unitarian Church in your district?
1 b
some of that in regard to the testimony . I can't
17
A No .
17 give you an exact date on it
.
18
Q
I guess then the question becomes if you
19
Q
That's also pretty much the same as the
19 can't remember the individual why would you put a
1 9 gist of what Mr
. Mayer told you, right?
20 big star next to that notation?
20
A
I don't know if he ever said that it
21
A You know what
. I just made a figure there.
21 definitely was . you know
. a threat . lie says
22
I was probably' doddling or something
.
22 it's -- to the best of my recollection
. how that is
23
Q Then we see there's a reference to
2 3 connected .
24
Dr
. Scott a little bit further down the page
.
24
Q Now, did you keep all of the letters that
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Pages 47 to 50
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
2
you got?
Page 4 7
Q Do you know Mary Harkrader?
A No
. I don't think I did .
A Yes .
6
Q Because you turned in
quite a few, but that 3
6
Q What's your relationship with her?
wouldn't be all of them is what you're saying?
A She used to he our count clerk and I
A Some of them might have got pitched .
worked in the count\ auditor's office . So I knots
Frankh . when the\ started criticizing and made it
her tiom there . I've attended sonic political
10
personal text . I didn't put much regard in the
letter and probabh pitched it .
F
9
10
functions she has hosted .
Q What was her view on this application?
A She "as opposed to it
.
Q
Did she ever call you to communicate that
Q So you only kept the ones that you thought
were a little bit more credible or important?
I1 .
A
I didn't reulh think about it . I lust --
1
fact?
12
Q Sir, do you know Tessie Bucklar or Tom
12 A
No .
Bucklar?
13
Q Then how did you know she was opposed?
i5
A
No .
Q Ever had any conversation with them?
1-
15
A I've heard her .'ou
sax knoa . that tact .
Q Now, you indicate that you used to work in
16
A Never have .
16
the auditor's office?
19
Q Do you know Bill Cook?
A No .
1 -
1 R
A Yes .
Q We understand there's a little bit of a
19
Q
Do you know Joyce Harant?
19 scramble now for who's going to be the next
20
A
Yes .
20 auditor.
2'_
Q How do you know her?
2 -
Do you have a position with regard to that?
22
A She ran against Congressman Michel . and I
22
Are you supporting Mr . Mayer?
23 think I know her politicalk . She comes to
23
A Probably will
.
24 Democrat thin
24
Q Do you know who Chris Ozuna-Thornton is ?
1
Page 48
Q Did she ever talk to you about her views on 1
A
Page SJ
No .
2 this expansion?
2
Q Howabout--
4
A She ma) have cal led
. I'm not positis c . I
A I know who she is from the standpoint that
can't remember .
she gave remarks there at the meeting .
5
Q Was she opposed to it?
5
Q Right.
6
A She was opposed . yes .
A You're talking about personal?
7
Q So as one good Democrat to another, she
Q
Yes .
8 would have called to express her views to you?
P
A No .
10
A I guess . I can't tell you for sure --
Q Is she kind of the Democratic party leader 1 0
Q Do you know Elmo Roach or Jean Roach?
A No -- wait a minute . I don't know Elmo
1 around here?
11 .
Roach, but at one time
. he lived in our apartment .
12
A I don't necessarik look at her as a
Never, ever had a conversation with him in that
13 leader .
13
apartment .
1 4
Q Who do you think is the Democratic party 1 4
Q
Do you know Cathy Stevenson?
1 5 leader around here?
1 5
A No .
16
A Willie Halstead .
16
Q Do you know Diane Storey?
1 7
Q What about Allen Mayer?
17
A
No
.
18 A Yes .
1
a
Q Do you know Barb Van Auken?
19
Q Do you know Lisa Offutt or Peter Offutt?
1 9
A
Yes .
20
A I know a Lisa Uphoff
. Is that who it is'?
20
Q How do you know her?
21
Q
Offutt?
21
A She's politically active there on the city
22
A UphotL.
22 council .
23
Q That's not the same .
2 3
Q She's a Democrat, too?
24
A No . I don't knowthem .
24
A I believe she is .
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 52
Q I don't mean to be repetitive, but just so
2
that I'm clear, you understood your responsibility
3
as someone making a decision here to not express
4
your views but to listen to views from all sides
even outside the hearing?
A Yes .
7
Q Do you know who Bill O'Brien is?
6
A Yes .
9
Q Did he ever talk to you about this
10
application?
A Ile voiced his . yes .
12
Q Would that have been in person or by phone?
13
A Might have been by both .
14
Q Was he an opponent of the siting?
15
A Eventualh . I think he became an opponent .
1 6
Q Now you have me curious . What do you mean
17
he eventually became one?
13
A Way betore the process eyen started . I got
19
the impression from him that he was in I'm or of it .
20
Then eventually when I listened to him, which I
21
didn't say one way or the other, as I've testified
22
here . I listened to people_ I got the impression
23
that he eventually was opposed to it .
24
MR . MUELLER : Mr. Salter. I appreciate
Pages 51 to 53
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pay
Q
Did you know her view on the application?
1
your patience
. and I don't have any additional
A Well, she put her view on -- in the paper
2
questions
. Thank you .
that she was opposed to it .
3
Q Did you ever contact her about her views?
4
A No . not that I recall,
5
(Further deponent saith not .)
Q Do you know Mayvis Young?
6
A No .
7
Q Did anyone ever come to your home to
8
personally express a view on this application?
9
A No . I had a handout at my home . In other
10
1
1 words. I was working in the garage . a gu'
11
12 approached
. stopped by and handed me it instead of
12
i-
mailing it .
13
1 4
Q Do you remember if that was a handout from
14
' 0 the Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste or the
15
16 Sierra Club?
16
A Can I tell him who it's Gold?
17
15 Q Go ahead, yeah .
18
i 9
A Tom Edwards . he makes rounds . I guess too
19
20 cheap to spend the money
.
2 0
21
Q Did you have any discussions with your
21
22 neighbors ever about this application?
22
23
A When you say "discussions ." I didn't
23
24 discuss this . Did I listen? Yes
.
.24
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
STATE 0= ILLINOIS
SS
COUNTY OF PEORIA
Aana M . Gi£tos, CSR,
RPR, and Notary
Public in and for the
County of
Peoria, State of
Illinois,
do hereby certi`y
that heretofore, to-wit,
on
Thursday, September
14th, 2006, oersonaiiy
appeared
before me at 416 Main
Street, Suite 1400,
Peoria, Illinois :
herein .
PHILLIP A .
SALZE14 a
material witness
further certify
that the said
witness was
by
me first duly
sworn to testify to the
truth, *_he
whole truth
and nothing but
the truth in the cause
aforesaid
; that the testimony
then given
by said
witness was reported
stenographically by me in the
presence of said witness and afterwards reduced to
typewriting, and the foregoing is a true and correct
transcript of the testimony so given by said witness
as aforesaid .
I further certify that the signature of the
witness was not waived .
further certify that I am not counsel for
nor
in any way re_ated to any of toe parties to this
suit, nor an
. I in any way interested in the outcome
thereof .
In testimony whertof, 1 hereunto set my
hand and affix my notarial sea'_ on this day,
Wednesday, September 20th, 2006
.
Aana N
. Giftos, Certified Shorthand Reporter
(State of
Illinois License #084-00357':)
My commission expires 07/24/07
.
OFFICIAL SEAL
AANA M GIFTOS
NOTARY PUBLIC-STATE OF ILLINOIS
MY COMMISSION E70RES:0721A7
Page 55
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
31
:11 42:3
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accordance 14
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although 16 :21
appreciate 52 :24
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attorneys 10 :20 .24
attorney-client
10 :8
auditor 49 :20
auditor's 49 :5 .16
Auken 50 :18
aware 17:12 30
:17
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Paae 56
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better 7:13 30 :23
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beyond 8
:10
big 6:13 44 :120
46 :9
Bill 25 :24 47 :17
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
accountable 43 :6
always 41 :1 .13 .24
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30:23 31
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colleges 8 :11
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13
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7 :4
content 3 :15 17 :6
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54:2
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27
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30:20 31 :6 49 :4.5
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county's 30:14
course 30 :2
courses 8 :12
court 1 :10 5 :3,10
crackpot 17 :19,21
20:14
Cream 36:6
created 7 :4 .7,9
credible 47 :10
credit 8 :13
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criticizing 47 :6
cross 13:23
crowd 35 :8
CSR 1 :11 55:3
curious 52 :16
D
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Daniel 39:4.5,10
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date 9:23 46:17
dated 18 :17 39 :1
dates 38 :17
DAVID 1 :22
day 7:23 54:20
55 :17
decline 10:4
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definitely 46:21
degree 8 :5
Democrat 23 :12
30 :5 35 :20 47 :24
48 :7 50 :23
Democratic
23
:11
48 :10,14
deponent 5') :5
deposition 1 :9 4 :12
4:16.20 54:8.11
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determine 13
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50:16
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41 :10
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discovery 1 :10
discuss 11 :21 51 :24
discussed 32 :1
Discussion 35 :22
discussions
25
:11
25 :14,18 .22 51 :21
PEOPIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 5'7
Coulter 2 :2,3 9 :2.7 decision
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Coulter's
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entire 24:18 43 :18
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34 :19
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exact 9:23 24:17
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2 :8 4:4
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18
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exhibits 2:10,22
expansion 9:12
18:24 24 :23 29:20
32:4 33:2 48:2
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31:23 48:8 51 :9
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17
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24 :21 28
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PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 58
full 37:7
function 34 :18
functions 49:7
further 44:24 53 :5
Gale 36 :5
garage 51 :11
gather 37 :17
gave
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geared
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general 13 :11
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generally
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:18 8 :14
generated 6:24
GEORGE 1 :16
gestures
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:3,22
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA
C
O 6Y 1
BOARD
8 4
eventually 36 :24
facility 15 :8 .22
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24 :13
52
:23
fact 7:17 12:4
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43
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groundwater 40:7
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handwriting 6 :22
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letters 3:15 17 :19
17:21 18
:23 19:13
19 :16 20 :11,13
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
PCB06-184
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
Page 59
item 44:1 46 :10
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416 1 :12.19 55:5
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5023:18
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
PHILLIP SALZER
9-14-2006
v, PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Page 64
waste 12 :15 51 :15 witnesses 29:7
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withdrawn 2:22
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Exhibit
9
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY,
)
Petitioner,
'
)NO . FCB 06-184
PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD,
Respondent .
The deposition cf JAMES W . THOMAS, a material
witness herein, called for examination pursuant to
notice and the Supreme Court Rules as they pertain to
the taking of discovery depositions before Aana M .
Giftos, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public in and for the
County of Peoria, and State of Illinois, on
Tuesday,
September 12th, 2006, at 416 Main Street, Suite 1400,
Peoria, Illinois, commencing at the hour of 9 :00 a .m
.
APPEARANCES :
GEORGE MUELLER, ESQUIRE
528 Columbus Street, Suite 204
Ottawa, Illinois 61350
and
JANAKI NAIR, ESQUIRE
BRIAN
MEGINNES, ESQUIRE
Elias,
Meginnes, Riffle
& Seghetti,
416 Main Street, Suite 1400
Peoria, Illinois 61602
on behalf of the Petitioner ;
DAVID A . BROWN, ESQUIRE
Black, Black & Brown
101
South Main Street
Morton, Illinois 61550
on behalf
of the Respondent ;
P
. C .
Page 1
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
10C13 06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
ALSO PRESENT
:
Royal Coulter, CDC ;
Matt Coulter, PDC ;
Bill A-kins .
I N D E X
WITNESS
JAMES W . THOMAS
Examina-ion by Mr . Mueller
3
EXHIBITS
None marked .
Page 2
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
JAMES W . THOMAS.
a material witness herein . being duly sworn . was
examined and testified as lbllows :
EXAMINATION
BY MR . MUELLER :
•
Would you state your name for the record!
A James W . Thomas . i-II-O-M-A-S .
•
Let the record show this is the discovery
deposition of James Thomas pursuant to notice in
10 accordance with the rules and by agreement of the 10 question
. Is that fair?
11 parties .
11
A Yes .
12
First of all, before we went on the record,
12
Q You also understand that you are under
131 Mr. Brown on behalf of the county and I had a
13 oath?
1 4 conversation about interrogatories that are
14
A Yes .
1 3 outstanding and the answers to which are now past .
15 Q
Thank you, sir. Mr . Thomas, you voted no
1 6 due .
: 16 on the motion to approve the application of PDC, is
17
He advised that he hopes to have those
'
17
that correct?
1 B answers to us by the first part of next week .
18
A Yes .
19 Obviously, it had been PDC's intent to have those
1 9 Q
Why did you do that, sir?
20 interrogatory answers at the time they took--or
20
MR . BROWN : Objection . My
21 that we took discovery depositions in this matter
.
21 understanding was that this was a disco' er
22
As a way of still going forward with the
22 deposition relating to questions of fundamental
23 depositions and expediting this case in terms of
23 fairness and that we wweren't going to he getting
2 4 discovery, it's our agreement between PDC and the
24 into questions ol'the individual count' hoard
Pa ae 3
3
4
county that if the interrogatory answers provide
any additional or new information on matters not
completely covered in discovery depositions of
county board members we would have the right to
redepose them as to those issues only .
Is that a fair statement, Mr. Brown?
MR . BROWN : Yes . That's my
understanding
.
MR . MUELLER : Thank y ou .
B Y
MR . MUELLER :
•
Mr . Thomas, have you ever had your
11
deposition
A No .
taken before in any case for any reason? 12
13
• Let me give you a few of the ground rules
14
that we're going to need to follow today . First of
15
all, everything that's said here is being taken
16
down by a court reporter and that means that only 17
one of us can speak at a time .
1"
Secondly, I see you nodding your head in
19
agreement with what I'm telling you . The court
2 0
reporter cannot take down nonverbal gestures . So 21
nodding of the head and shaking of the head is not 22
an appropriate way to answer questions .
2 3
It's also difficult if people answer with
24
9
10
e .
uh-huh or huh-uh and words other than yes or no .
Do you understand all of that?
A Yes .
•
If I ask you a question and you don't
understand it, you're free to have me rephrase it .
Do you understand that?
A Yes .
h
Q
If I ask you a question and you answer it,
9 I'm going to assume that you understood the
Page 4',
Page 6
member's mental process and decision-making .
I
believe that's clearly off limits for this type of
inquiry . and
we'd
object .
MR . MUELLER : Are you instructing the
witness not to answer?
M R . BRO W'N : I f you're going to persist
with the line of questioning . I will instruct him
not to answer .
MR . MUELLER : There's a question out
there pending. Either you're going to instruct him
not to answer or you're not .
MR . BROWN : You're not required to
answer that question . You don't have to .
BY MR . MUELLER :
•
Mr. Thomas, what is your education?
A I have a master's degree from the
University of Wisconsin . bachelor's from the
University of Illinois .
•
What's the subject of your master's degree?
A Political science .
•
If I can be indelicate, sir, what is your
age?
A
I'm retired . I'm 65 .
•
How long have you been on the Peoria County
Pages 3 to 6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
1 , 1 correct?
19
20 A Yes .
20
21 Q How long has she been the county clerk?
21
22 A Eight years .
22
23 Q Did you ever have any conversations with
23
2 4 her relating to her responsibilities and duties in
24
_aae 9
connection with the management and accumulation of
the record on PDC's siting application
A Yes .
•
How many such conversations would you have
had with her?
A Ven hard to estimate . Off and on .
depending upon %shat her problems that she was
honing as tar as Just the management of the
records .
•
Well, let's go back to the earliest
conversations you would
have heard with -- or had
with her in that area .
Would it be fair to say that that would
have been at or near the time that PDC's siting
application was filed?
A
Probably . yes.
•
Now, I'm going to guess, Mr . Thomas, as a
political science professor you probably looked up
Section 39.2 of the Environmental Protection Act
and read it for yourself prior to this process
unfolding?
A No
.
Q You did not . Did you ever make yourself
aware or familiar with the requirements for how a
Page 10
record is to be kept and accumulated?
A No . Mn mite did mention .
Q All right. Did she seek your advice with
regard to how she should do her duties?
A No .
•
That's probably a silly question, right?
A Yes .
•
Did she indicate to you what her method was
going to be for accumulating and accurately
maintaining a record?
A No . not specifics .
•
You said you had a number of conversations
with her on that subject .
Is there anything specific that you can
recall from any of those conversations about what
your wife was going to do with regard to
maintaining and keeping the record?
A No. not really
.
•
Did
your
wife ever indicate to you that she
was going to delegate the responsibility for
maintaining, accumulation and keeping the record in
this case to one of her deputy clerks?
A Not that I recall .
•
Is it your belief as you sit here now that
Pages 7 to 10
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
1 Board?
2 A Eighteen years .
2
3
Q How many terms is that?
3
4 A Good question . Well, it's four and a half
4
5 Q
They're four-year terms?
5
6 A Yes .
6
7 Q So you are in midterm right now?
8 A Yes .
8
9 Q When did you retire, sir?
=
10
A As of August 1st . this year
.
10
11 Q
What was your profession prior to your
1
12
retirement?
12
13
A
I was a clinical science professor .
13
14 Q
Where was that?
19
15 A At Illinois Central College .
16 Q
I take it then that you probably had some
16
17
academic interest in the landfill siting process as
17
18 well as in the adjudicatory interest as a board
''-8
19 member?
19
20 A That's fair .
20
21 Q
Now, what is your current address, sir?
21
22 A 1303 North Glenwood Avenue in Peoria .
22
23 Q How long have you lived at that address? 23
24 A About nine months .
24
Page 8
Q Where did you live prior to that time?
1
2 A 1629 West Bradley Avenue .
2
Q How long did you live at that address?
3
4 A lhirtc years .
4
5 Q
Do you have any children, sir?
5
6
A Yes .
7
Q Do any of them work in the medical
7
8 community?
9 A No .
G
10 Q
How many children do you have that reside
10
11
in Peoria County?
11
12
A None .
12
1 .3 Q
When you
run for county board, you run on a
13
14
partisan basis, is that correct?
14
15 A Yes .
15
1_ 6 Q What is your party that you run?
16
17 A Democratic .
1 8 Q Your wife is the county clerk, is that
F
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 11
A
I'm not aware .
•
Are you aware of whether your wife had
assistance from any county staff members other than
her employees in the clerk's office in terms of
preparing the record?
A Not that I knors of
.
•
Do you know whether anyone from the State's
Attorney's office provided her with guidance and
direction and assistance or any of those things in
accumulating the record?
A Not for certain .
•
Well, you say "not for certain."
Do you
believe that someone may have?
A My wife consults NN
ith the district attorney
on any kind of question where there might he legal
issues and follows the guidance of the State's
Attorney's office .
Q Do you know who in the State's Attorney's
office she would have consulted with with regard to
this record?
A Not certain . n o .
Q Who do you believe it might have been?
A It would have been probably and either Bill
Atkins and/or Lyn Schmidt .
Page 14
• Did your wife ever have any conversations
with you about what to include in the record on
appeal?
A No .
•
Did you ever have any conversations with
her on that subject?
A No .
•
As part of the discovery process in this
case, Mr
. Thomas, we have asked for copies of all
communications received by any board members
relating to this appeal, and I believe it's
accurate to say that you indicated you did not have
any such communications?
A That's not quite accurate . What I said was
that letters I had received I had discarded most of
them . in fact. no. all of them . Any notes I had
may be around . but in the move. they have been
mislaid . 'I'hes may he in some box somewhere
.
•
Now, you moved nine months ago?
A Right .
•
That would put us back to January of this
year .
A
That's when we began to move .
•
When did you complete the move?
Pages 11 to 14
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
1 she delegated that responsibility or is it your
1
3
belief that she kept that responsibility for
herself?
A I'm not certain .
4
5
Q Sour wife never said to you either way,
5
6 whether she did or didn't, is that correct?
6
9
A
Q
Not that I recall .
Do you know who your wife's chief deputy
E
9
is?
0
10 A Yes .
10
11 Q Who's that?
11
12 A Megan Fulara .
13 Q Did you ever have any conversations with
14 Megan about the keeping of the record in this case?
14
A No
.
15
1
6
Q
Let's skip forward in time, if we may, to
16
when PDC filed its appeal
.
17
Did you and your wife have any
18
19 conversations at that point about how the record
1
a
20 was to be prepared on behalf of the county?
20
21 A I'm not sure I understand what _v ou're
21
22 asking on that .
' 22
2 33
Q
You're aware, I take it, sir, that one of
23
24 the first things the county had to do in this
24
1
Page 12
appeal was to accumulate and copy what's called the
1
2 record on appeal and submit it to the Pollution
2
3 Control Board?
3
4
A Yes . yes .
7 Q Did you and your wife ever have any
S
6 conversations about how she was going to accomplish
6
that task?.
A
Yes .
6
0
Q What did she say and what did you say in
9
10 those conversations or in any of them?
10
11 A She just mentioned that she had to have
11
12
them printed by a printing compam
. and [Just
12
13 listened . I had no comment .
13
14 Q All right. We're aware that the
1 4
15 preparation of the record in this case was no small
1 `_
16 task and that it was a significant job .
1 6
17
I take it you're aware of that, too?
17
18
A Yes
.
18
19
Q
I take it your wife was pretty busy with it
1 9
20
for awhile?
20
21 A Yes. yes .
.21
22 Q Did she oversee that process or, to your
22
23 knowledge, did some other county employee take over
23
24
the process?
2 4
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
2
A I don't know that we't e completed it vet
.
1
We are out of the house_ but I hate a garage till
3
of
boxes and an attic and a basement .
4
Q So you did receive letters and other
4
communications with regard to this proposal?
_ .
6
A Yes
.
6
?
Q
Is there a reason why you chose to discard
them rather than turning them over to your wife's
8
9 office for inclusion in the record?
9
10 A I wasn't aware that that "as necessan
.
10
11 Q All right
. Were you aware, sir, that there
11
12 was a prohibition --
actually, there is a
12
. . 3 prohibition on ex pane communications between the
'- 3
1
4
litigants and the decision-makers in cases like
1
4
5 this?
' S
16
A
I'm not actuall' certain what vou're
16
1 - talking about here
. but do you mean conversations
: 17
18 about the landfill? 1 8
1 9
Q
Well, let's back up a second
. Do you
1 19
20
recall --
strike that .
20
21
You're familiar with the term ex pane
21
22 communication, aren't you?
22
23
A Not n ecessarily . n o . Not specifically,
23
2 4
Q My apologies then . I assumed that as a
2 4
Page 16
1 political science professor you would have some
1
2
familiarity with that concept
.
2
3
Let me explain it
. Ex pane communications
3
4
generally are communications in a litigation or
4
5 adversarial format between one of the parties and
6 the decision-maker outside the presence of the
6
7
other party .
-
8
A Okay .
8
9
Q Do you understand that concept?
9
10 A Yes .
10
11
Q Were you aware that the--in the siting
11
12 process, the county board was the decision-maker?
12
13
A Yes .
"_ 3
14 Q Were you aware that ex pane communications
1 4
15 are according to the law at least not to occur in
1 5
16 this process?
16
17
A
Yes .
1?
1 P Q Who made you aware of that fact?
1 P
19
A The State's Attorney's office .
:
19
2 0 Q Do you remember when you became aware?
20
21
A
Fairly near the beginning ofthe "hole
,
21
22
system
,
22
23 Q Who was it from the State's Attorney's
23
24 office that provided that information?
24
A Bill Atkins . I think . Bill Atkins, yes .
•
Did he do so in writing or just orally
advised the board?
A Oral .
•
I take it then he basically told board
members you're not to talk with representatives of
PDC about this application?
MR . BROWN : I'm going to object that
counsel's asking questions about attorney-client
communications .
MR . MUELLER : I'll rephrase it .
BY MR . MUELLER :
•
As a result of that conversation or adv ice
from the State's Attorney's office, did you believe
that you were not supposed to talk to
representatives of PDC about the application?
A Yes .
•
Did you have a similar belief about not
talking to representatives of the opposition
groups?
A Yes, with exceptions
.
•
What's the exception?
A
I'm an elected representative . I have to
listen to my constituents . If you mean by talking .
Page
did I give opinions or did anything other than
listen to their point of view, then I didn't do any
of that .
•
Mr. Coulter, who's in the room, is a
citizen of Peoria County .
A Yes .
•
Your understanding was that you wouldn't
have to listen to him, but you had to listen to
other constituents?
A I have to listen to any constituent . I
have to listen . That doesn't mean I have to
respond . So the question is I guess the difference
between being the decision-maker and being an
elected representative .
•
Well, did you understand your role in the
decision-making process as being adjudicatory or
legislative?
A
Could you clarify the differences there?
•
Again, you've got a master's degree in
political science?
A True, not
--
•
Do you know what the legislative branch is?
A Yes .
•
Do you know what the judicial branch is?
Pages 15 to 18
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 19
A Yes .
2
Q The word adjudicatory is used to describe
2 judicial type decisions?
4
A
Okav
.
5
Q You're familiar with all of that?
A Yes
.
Q Are there any concepts here that you're not
5 familiar with what I'm asking you about?
9
A
I'm just trying to he very clear since I
1
10 know the law has verv precise definitions
. I hate
i 1 a common sense of each of those terms
. I want to
2 he ten clear on what we're talking about .
3
Q
Maybe I'm being unfair to you, Mr. Thomas,
13
You --
w c were not to cvprcss an,
1 4 because I'm assuming that as a political scientist
14 preferences one w a\ or another until we had heard
17,
you would have probably more in-depth knowledge
all of the facts and made a formal vole .
1 6 about the various branches of governments than I
16 Q
Mr
. Thomas, what would be the point of
17 have, and if I'm presuming something that's making
17 receiving constituent opinions if you were
18 my questions unclear, I apologize .
1 E instructed not to take those opinions into account?
19
Now, you understand that a county board
19
A I'm not sure . It's one of the glitches in
20 member is a legislator?
2 0 the -- in our sstem of government .
21
A Yes .
21
Q Now, in your understanding about receiving
22
Q And that your function generally as a
22 constituent opinions, did you distinguish between
2 3 county board member is a legislative function?
23 members of the general public and people directly
29
A
Yes .
24 involved with the siting process?
Page 20
1
Q It was apparently explained to you by Bill
2 Atkins and/or someone else in the State's
3 Attorney's office that this process was a little
3
4
bit different?
4
5
A
Yes .
5
6
Q Because in a legislative capacity, you
7 would seek out as much input from your constituents
$ you felt you needed, right?
E
9
1
10
11
12
13
14
1 5
16
7
13
19
2 0
21
22
23
24
Paac 2
:
5
43
1 tell us in your own words what your understanding
_ regarding communications to you and by you about
the subject matter outside the hearing process was
.
A
We were instructed that while we could not
discuss in the sense el gis ing opinions that it was
6 all right to listen to constituents .
7
1T
here's obvioush nothing w c can do to stop
6 them sending a letter but that the\ were to he --
9 what did I sas . set aside in the sense that while
1 2 it's --' on know . it's constituent opinion . it's
11 simph opinion
. and that the decision could not
12 have an\ thing to do with these opinions .
Page 22
A
I'm not sure who those people would be .
•
I'm thinking to myself here, Mr
. Thomas,
that if t had approached you during the hearing and
pulled you aside and said, You know. Jim, the
opposition is really trying to mislead you with
their evidence, that you're likely to have said to
me, I'm not supposed to be talking to you about
this stuff.
A Yes .
•
That's probably because I was someone known
to you as directly involved in the process on
behalf of one of the parties?
A Yes .
•
Similarly, there were people such as
Mr
. Wentworth directly involved in the process on
behalf of the opposition?
A Yes .
•
I take it that if he approached you and
said, You know, that particular witness on behalf
of PDC I don't think was telling the truth, you'd
probably said to him, You know, Dave, I'm not
supposed to talk to you about that?
A Yes .
•
Y'ou might have taken a different view with
Pages 19 to 22
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
A Yes.
9
Q In this case, you understood that you were
11
not supposed
to seek out input and that you were
~ _
supposed
to base your decision on the evidence,
1 2
right?
13
A Yes.
-41
Q So did you understand your role in the
1 S
decision-making
process as being adjudicatory or
16
legislative?
1 7
A Adjudicator' .
19
Q
That being the case then did you understand
I,,
that you
were not to receive communications from
2 0
representatives of any of the parties outside of
2 --
the hearing
process?
22
A No .
23
Q Maybe to short-circuit this, why don't you
2 4
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pao-
1 just members of the general public in that you
3
2 would have allowed them to express their opinion
without rebuking them, right?
A Yes .
5
Q So in all of this, did you receive any
7
6 communications outside of the hearing evidence from
representatives of Peoria Disposal Company?
A I guess that would depend on what you call
9
representative . I did see -- I think it mg mcmorc
10 is clear here that I mache got letters from people
11 oho were employees .
Q
How many such letters would you have
7
2
1
100 communications received expressing opposition,
do you recall whether any of them were from people
known to you to be representatives of opposition
4
groups?
5
A Yes .
7
6
Q Some of those were?
A Yes .
•
Can you as you sit here now tell me
9 specifically which individuals you received
10 communications from?
11
A I can't remember
. Conos er . that's a name .
12 Q Converse?
13
A Converse . thank you .
14
Q All right .
15
A Yes . And I think-- I think there was at
16 least one letter front Joyce Blumenshine .
17
Q At least one letter from Joyce Blumenshine,
18 and how many letters from Kim Converse?
19
A
Three or tour maybe .
20 Q Did you ever think that was strange seeing
21 as you understood that the litigants were not
22 supposed to communicate directly with the
23 decision-makers outside the hearing process?
24 A No .
Page 26
Q Did you ever advise Ms . Blumenshine to not
attempt to communicate with you directly again?
A No.
•
Did you ever advise Kim Converse not to
communicate with you directly again?
A No .
•
Did you receive any other communications
from any representatives of or individuals known to
you to be representatives of opposition groups
besides Converse and Blumenshine?
A Just private individuals as far as I can
remember .
•
By private individuals, you mean people not
direct representatives of opposition groups?
A Yes .
•
You knew Kim Converse was a leading member
of Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste, I take it?
A Yes . She did note that on her, at least
one letter. I think .
•
You no longer have that letter from her, I
take it?
A No .
•
No meaning you don't have the letter?
A Right .
3
4
5
6
8
9
county board?
10
A No .
11
•
You're wrapping up your term and calling it
12
a day?
13
A Yes .
14
•
In your last election, do you remember how
15
many votes you won by?
16
A All of them . I had no opponent .
17
• That's pretty comfortable. With regard to
10
these less than 10 communications from people
19
expressing support, do you remember if any of them
20
were from people known to you as representatives of 211
Peoria Disposal Company?
22
A No .
23
•
Now, with regard to this less than
Pages 23 to 26
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
13 gotten?
14
A I have no idea .
15 Q Can you estimate would it have been less
16 than 10 or more than 10?
A Prohahk less than 10
.
15 Q
Did you also get letters from the -- from
19 people expressing opposition?
20
A
Yes .
21 Q
I'm going to guess that that number was
22
more than 10??
23 A Yes .
24 Q
Would it have been more than 100?
Page 24
1
A I don't think so .
2
Q
Would that include E-mails?
A Yes .
4 Q So you probably got somewhere less than
5 100 communications in writing either electronically
6 or in the form of letters from people expressing
opposition?
A Ihat's my best recollection .
u
Q Mr
. Thomas, do you intend to run again for
JAMES THOMAS
Pages 27 to 30
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
9-12-2006
2
Q
Did you ever have any conversations about
1 A When you say conversation, do you mean a
this process with Kim Converse?
give and take or did I listen to people?
6
A
Q
A
No .
Never spoke to her?
None of
substance . n o . Hello, goodbye.
3
4
-`
6
Q
Did he ever approach you about his views
with an attempt to communicate them to you?
A Yes . I think so .
that sort
of thing .
Q When -- I guess he's a retired doctor, yes?
7 Q
Is she someone that you know personally by
A
Yes
.
8
the way?
Q When did Dr. McLean approach you?
`^ A It's hard to characterize that . I know who
9
A I
don't remember exact times . It was at
10 she was because she went to school with my kids
. I 1 C some kind of a meeting where it was kind of
11 knew who she was . I didn't know her actually
11 mentioned in passing .
12 personally . n o .
Q
Would that have been a meeting of county
- 3 Q Okay . But you knew her on sight before the
1 3 board members or some other type of meeting?
hearing started?
15
A Some other type of meeting, neighborhood or
A Yes .
political .
Q As in, oh, that's Kim Converse, she went to
. 16 Q
Has Dr. McLean ever contributed to any of
school with my kids?
1-
your campaigns?
18 A I don't have that good a memory for names .
18
A No .
19 but I recognized her face .
19 Q
You say it was at this type of meeting that
20 Q All right. So you never had any
20
he mentioned to you in passing his opposition to
21 substantive conversations with her before these
21
the PDC landfill?
22
hearings started?
2 2 A Yes .
23
A No .
2 3 Q Do you recall if whether that was before
2 4 Q Even after the he ing process started up
24
the application was filed or afterwards?
1.
Page 28
1
Page 3i,
through the date of the decision, you never had any
A
I can't recall .
2 conversations with her?
2 Q Do you recall the length of this mentioning
3 A No .
in passing?
4 Q No meaning you never had conversations or
4 A Oh . a Jew %cords .
5 no meaning I'm wrong?
5 Q Did you respond to him?
6 A No meaning I had no conversations other
b A Only in polite okay . yes. you know . I
than in passing hello . goodbye.
7
l istened to him .
P
Q So, Mr
. Thomas, is Kim Converse a resident
8 Q
Do you recall the substance of what he
9 of your legislative district?
9 said?
10
A
Yes .
10
A
Not really other than -- no. not really .
Q How do you know that to be the case?
11
not specifically
.
12
A Someone told me
. I'm not sure who . but I
12 Q
He's a constituent of yours?
13
know her parents
. where her parents liycd . I
13
A Yes .
14 didn't know where she lis ed until someone told me .
4 Q Did you feel you had the responsibility to
15 Q Kim Converse's parents are John and Cindy
_ 5 take your constituent's views into account in
16 McLean?
16 making your final decision?
17 A Yes .
17
A No .
18 Q Do you know them?
1 P Q Did you consider any of your constituent's
19 A An acquaintance . yes .
1 9 views in making your decision?
20 Q Have you ever socialized with either of the
2C
A No .
2'_
. McLeans?
21 Q Did you ever say to any -- anyone that
22 A Not that I recall . no .
2 2 approached you with their opinion something to the
23 Q Did you have any conversations with John
2 3 effect of you're wasting your time talking to me
24 McLean at any time about this application?
24 because I'm not going to take it into consideration
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
6
opinion . but we cannot discuss this issue.
Substantively . I cannot give you an opinion and I
have to make a decision on what I hear at the
hearings .
Did you attend hearings, sir?
Yes.
There was --
was it five or six days?
I didn't go to all of them and I came late
to some because of my class schedule.
•
With regard to the hearings that you didn't
attend, did you read the transcripts?
A Yes .
•
Did you read them all?
•
Probably not all .
•
But you read most of them?
•
Yes .
•
Did you read the county staff report?
•
Yes .
Q
A
Q
A
..
A I svasn t aware that was necessary
.
7
6
Q Well, for example, when you received direct
mail from Joyce Blumenshine who was the
8 representative of the Sierra Club, didn't you think
9 that was an inappropriate attempt to influence you?
10
A Improper
. I wouldn't know . It was an
11 attempt to influence . yes. Whether it was improper
12 or not . according to my i nstructions . i t was not .
13 Q So your instructions as you understood them
14 were not -- for you not to communicate back, right?
15
A Yes .
171
6 Q And for you not to express opinions?
A Yes .
18
Q You didn't have an understanding that you
1 9 were not to receive communications?
20
A No .
21
Q And you had no understanding that the
22 participants also were not to direct communications
•
You're aware that staff report recommended
2 3 to you?
approval?
24
A Participants?
Page 32
Fage
A Yes .
2
Q Did you ever view any websites that dealt
3 with the subject of the application?
4
A No .
5
Q Are you aware that Peoria Families Against
6 Toxic Waste had a website?
7
A No . I wasn't .
•
Did you ever receive any telephone calls
9 from anyone regarding this application?
9
10
A Yes .
13
11
Q Who would you have received phone calls
11.
12 from?
12
13
1 4
A I don't recall.-3
Q How many such phone calls would you have 14
:5 received?
1
16
A Oh . I don't know . Less than 20 in my
1 6
1
estimate .
1
1 8
Q When you received correspondence from
'_ 8
19 members of the public including representatives of 19
2 0 the opposition groups, what did you do with it?
22
2'_
A I stacked them up on my desk .
21
22
Q Were they then ultimately discarded
22
23 intentionally or inadvertently as part of your
23
24 move?
24
4
Q The litigants in the case.
A I'm not sure.
•
When you stacked up these communications,
did you ever make any copies of any of them?
A No .
•
You never gave any of them to your wife?
A No .
•
Did you keep them at home or at your
office --
A At home .
•
So she would have been aware that they were
coming in?
A Oh . yes .
•
Did you ever discuss the application with
county staff?
A I'm not sure what that would include
. We
received instruction about . you know
. w hat we were
supposed to do . but I don't recall ever questioning
them about anything .
•
Let me distinguish . First of all, I'm
talking about the time period from when the
application was filed in November through the last
county board meeting in May of this year, and by
staff, let me break that down .
Pages 31 to 34
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEOP.lA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
C'a'--
31
S
anyway?
1 A Intentionalh .
2 A Not in those words .
2 Q What was the purpose of discarding them as
3
G
Q
A
What words then would you have used?
I would have said . Glad to hear your
3
s
opposed to turning them over to the State's
Attorney or the county clerk?
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pages 35 to 38
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY
BOARD
PCB06-184
Paa •=
First of all, did you ever talk about the
7 Q Mr
. Thomas, did you ever approach any other
t
3
application with any of the outside consultants
hired by Peoria County??
board member in an attempt to communicate your
position on the application?
4
A Do
'ou mean Mr. Brown'
4 A No .
6
Q Other than lawyers .
A
No .
6
Q Did you ever see any signs in the yards of
citizens expressing opinions on this landfill?
Q After you got the staff report recommending
A Yes .
8 approval, did you discuss that report with any
8
Q
How many such signs would you say you've
9 other person?
9 seen?
10 A No
. no .
10 A I couldn't estimate .
11
Q
Did you ever meet with any other county
11
Q
Do you know whether any of those signs were
12 board members outside of the regular meeting
12
in yards in your district?
process to discuss the staff report?
13
A I'm sure I saw some
. ces .
14
A
No .
14 Q You're elected from a geographic district,
15
Q
Did you ever have any phone conversations
1 yes?
1
6 with any other county board members outside the
16
A Correct .
18
regular hearing process regarding the application?
I
18
Q What's the approximate physical size of
A
None that I recall . n o .
your district?
19 Q Sir, is there a reason why you chose to
19
A I
don't know . It's mache 15 blocks by
20 disregard the recommendation in the staff report?
20 10 blocks or something like that . It's the Iburth
21
MR . BROWN
: Objection . You're going
21 count' board district .
22 into the mental processes of the count\
hoard
22 Q It would be what? A couple square miles
23 member . decision-maker in this
. not something
maybe, a little more than that?
24 that's subject to discov en . I'm going to direct
24 A Somewhere right around there .
Page 36
Page
1 the Fitness not to respond to that question .
1
Q
How many signs would you say that you saw
2 13Y MR . MUELLER :
2
in yards in your district?
3 Q Mr . Thomas, let me make the question a
3 A I can onlc guess . but it would he 10 or
4 little bit broader and more general .
4 less .
5
Did you ever meet with any other county
n Q
Did you ever see any billboards opposed to
6 board member about what your or that county
board 6 the application?
7 member's decision was going to be?
A Yes .
B
9
A I recall --
I recall remarks in passing_
B
9
Q
How many of those would you say you've
but no conversations of any length_ no .
seen?
10 Q Did you ever have a phone conversation with
10 A Only one that I can remember
.
11 any other county board member about what your
or 11 Q Sir, did you get the sense from the letters
12
their decision was going to be?
12
you received, the billboards you saw and the
yard
13 A Not that I recall . no .
13 signs that you saw that the general public was
14 Q Specifically, were you ever contacted by
'14 opposed to the application?
15 Allen Maver and asked what your vote was going to
A I know it meant that some people were
.
16
be?
16 Q Well, you certainly saw much more in the
17 A No .
17 way of expressions of opposition in various
forms
18 Q Did you ever communicate ahead of your vote
18 we've talked about than you saw in the way of
1 9 to Mr . Mayer what your vote was going to be?
19 expressions of support?
20
A No .
20
A Yes
.
21
Q Did David Williams ever approach you
21
Q
That didn't lead you to believe that the
22 regarding what your vote was going to be, and
by
22
general public was opposed?
23 approach, I mean either personally or by telephone?
2 S A No .
24 A No.
24 Q Did you ever have any flyers about the
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
1
landfill before?
2
A
No .
0
Q So you've
never been on the PDC property?
A No .
Q Did you as part of communications you
7
6 received from constituents and other members of the
public during this process ever receive anything
8 that purported to be authoritative material as
opposed to a mere expression of opinion such as
13 articles that say landfills leak and the like?
11
A Yes .
12
Q What kinds of those communications did you
receive?
14
A Some reprints and some letters, some
15 letters quoting other studies .
1 6 Q
Do you remember who you received any of
17 those reprints from?
18
A Probably Tom Edwards .
19
Q That would have been my first guess, too .
20
Did you read those reprints then?
21
A I scanned everything that I got . Read
22 might he a little too strong a word .
23
Q Now at the time of this process, you're a
24
A All communications with any substance led
! 24 county board member and you've got these duties,
Fags 40
Page 42
1 me to look at the evidence more closely .
- correct?
2
Q Can you recall the specific contents of any
2
A Yes .
3 of these communications of substance?
3
Q
You're a professor at Illinois Central
4
A Not specifically .
4
College, and you had those duties, right?
5
Q Now, have you ever been at a landfill in
5
A Yes .
6
the past?
6
Q
)'on were in the middle of a home move,
7
A Yes .
' correct?
8
Q When?
R
A Yes .'es .
9
A When they were siting the new landfill .
9
Q So you were a pretty busy guy?
10
Q The city county landfill?
10 A Yes .
11
A Yes .
11 Q
You also understood that you were not to
12
Q You voted in favor of that one, didn't you,
- 12 consider anything other than the evidence in making
13 sir?
13 your decision, correct?
14
A Yes .
14
A
Yes .
15
Q What was it about that one that garnered 15
Q That being the case, why would you bother
16 your support versus this one that garnered your
16 to even scan the reprints that people would send to
17 opposition?
17 you?
18
MR . BROWN : Objection . You're going
1 8
A Just to look them over to get the
19 into the county board member's mental processes
19 intbrmation .
2 0 again, It's objectionable . It's not allowed in
20
Q Why not throw them away without even
21 these proceedings
. and I'm going to instruct the
21 looking at them?
22 witness not to testify .
22
A When it was part oft he letter
. I scanned
23 BY MR . MUELLER :
23 it .
24
Q
Had you ever been at a hazardous waste
2 4 Q
Do you remember whet her you received any
application received at your home?
A
I don't recall .
•
How many total people would you say you
discussed the application with between
November 9th, 2005, and May 3rd, 2006?
A Do you mean substantive, in-depth
discussions orjust conversations in passing?
•
Let's do conversations in passing first
.
A
I couldn't estimate : but, obviously, it was
an issue before the county board, and people
mentioned that it was coming up .
•
Would that number be in the hundreds?
A No .
•
Less than 100 times?
A I'm sure, yes .
Q In terms of substantive conversations, how
many would you have had?
A
I can't recall any . Let me take that back .
People did give expressions of opinions about -- of
the items that were listed that they either were
convinced or had doubts .
•
Did any of those expressions point you to
look at any of the evidence more closely?
Pages 39 to 42
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pages 43 to 46
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Page 43
1
Peace
letters quoting studies from Joyce Blumenshine?
her listed as president.
A I
don't recal I that her letters had that
2
Q Did you know her prior to the start of
kind of information . Fin not certain .
3
these hearings?
4 Q Now, I believe you previously told me that
4 A Yes .
5
y
ou only got one letter from Joyce Blumenshine .
5
Q How did you know her?
E A I know I had -- I'm sore
. I said I had at
6 A Acquaintance . again, outdoor activities
7 least one .
7 type thing . I went on a -- I've been on a couple
6 Q It's likely that you had more from her?
8 of the Sierra Club sponsored winter hikes at
9A
It's quite possible
.
' es
.
9 Starved Rock .
1 1 Q Mr
. Thomas, are you a member of the Sierra 10 Q That would be my neck of the woods, sir.
11 Club?
11 You indicated that you'd not been to any Sierra
12
A Yes .
12
Club meetings?
1 3
Q Heart of Illinois Chapter?
13 A No .
14
A Yes .
14
Q
But you've been a participant in some
15 Q How long have you been a member of the
15 Sierra Club activities?
16 Sierra Club?
16 A Two . two hikes .
17
A ivo 'ears, three .
17
Q
Both of those were up in the Starved Rock
18
Q
Does the Sierra Club charge dues?
18 area, to your knowledge?
19 A Yes .
19 A Yes .
20 Q
Do you pay dues?
20
Q You've not been on or a participant in any
21
A Yes .
21
other Sierra Club activities?
22 Q When's the last time you made dues payment?
22 A No .
23 A
That I'd hare to consult with my Mite .
23
Q
The Sierra Club is I believe keenly
2 4 She's the one that made the dues payment
.
2 4 interested in maintaining the quality of the
Page 44
Page 46
Q Is she a member of the Sierra Club, also?
1
Illinois River--
2
A Yes .
2
A
Yes .
Q What is it that caused you and your wife to
3 Q --around Peoria?
4 join?
4 A Yes .
A We had been members previous in
5 Q You're aware of that?
6 Wisconsin
. and it's a club dealing with outdoor
6
Have you ever been involved in anything
7 activities which I enjoy
.
7
with them in terms of river related activities
A
9
Q Does the Heart of Illinois Chapter of the
8
9
here?
Sierra Club have meetings?
A No .
10 A Yes .
10
Q
When these hearings began and it was
11 Q How frequently?
11 determined that the Sierra Club was actively
12 A I think the' 're once a month
.
12 participating as an opponent, did you disclose your
13 Q When is the last time you went to a Sierra
13 membership at that point to any other person?
'_4
Club meeting?
14
A No .
15 A
I've never been to one .
15
Q
Did you discuss whether or not you should
16 Q Other than payment of dues, have you made
16 disclose your membership with any other person?
17 any donations to the Sierra Club?
17
A No .
18 A No .
16 Q Are you a member of the Moss-Bradley
1 9 Q Did you know that Joyce Blumenshine was an
1 9 Homeowner's Association?
20 officer of the local chapter of the Sierra Club?
20
A No .
2'_
A
I found that out. yes .
21
Q
Have you ever been a member?
22 Q When did you rind that out?
22 A No .
23 A I can't recall . but when I received a
23
Q
Have you ever attended a meeting of the
24 letter and I think
-- an official letter that had
24 Moss-Bradley Homeowner's Association?
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pages 47 to 50
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
e'age 4-
Page
1
A Only at candidate forums
.
arches of er on -- it's kind of a defunct area
.
2
Q That would only be in your capacity as a
Arbor District. yes
. Called the Arbor District
3 candidate seeking the support of individuals at
IH,tt .
4 such a meeting?
4 Q When were you a member of that
5
A Yes .
5 organization?
6
Q Have you ever received -- strike that
.
6 A Prett
; much up until I moved
.
7
During the course of this hearing process,
Q
Was David Wentworth a member of that
B
9
did you ever receive anything of value from any
member of the general public or constituent?
B
organization?
A
No
.
10 A I was reminded of that . At the end of the
10.
Q
Have you ever socialized with David
11 hearings, and I can't remember her name, someone
-1 W entworth?
12
gave everyone a flower
.
12 A Yes .
13
Q Other than that, did you receive anything
--
Q Do you consider him a friend?
14
of value?
- A An acquaintance .
15 A No .
Q Have you been in his home?
16
Q Do you remember who you got the flower
16 A Yes .
17 from?
1
Q Has he been in your home?
18 A I can't recall her name . I know who she
18
A No.
19
is. but I don't recall her name
.
19
Q On how many occasions would you say you've
20
Q She's someone associated with the
20
been in his home?
21
opposition group?
2- A lie had a fundraiser . and I think that's the
22
A Yes
.
22
onlc time .
23
Q Have you ever received any campaign
23
Q How long ago was that?
24
contributions from any local physicians?
24 A It would have been prior to the election of
Page 48
A No.
1
Page 50
the current state comptroller.
2
Q Have you ever had any professional
2
Q
In other words, sometime prior to 2004?
3 affiliation with any of the local hospitals?
3 A ProhablN 2000 .
4 A No.
4
Q
Okay. Did you have any conversations with
5
Q Have you ever received any campaign
0 Mr. Wentworth during the course of these hearings?
6
contributions from any of the local hospitals?
6
A Greetings. yes . hi .
7 A No.
Q
Other than hi, how are you, was there any
8
Q Ever received any campaign contributions or
P
other communications between the two of you?
9
anything else of value from any environmental
- A No.
10
organization?
10
Q
Do you know Rodney Lorenz?
A No.
11
A No.
-2
Q Sir, do you know David W entworth?
12
Q
He would be a Dr. Lorenz?
13
A Yes.
1 3 A No.
14
Q Did you know him prior to the commencement
14
Q
Ever received any communications from him?
1
of these hearings?
-s A I don't recall . I know I did receive some
16 A Yes.
1 6 communications from doctors . but I don't know who
17
Q How did you know him?
17
the signatories "ere
.
18 A I served on a committee at Rradle' about
1 r
Q
Did you ever speak to a Dr
. Lorenz?
19 the neighborhood . and I knew him through the West
19 A No.
20 Rlufl'Neighborhood Associations .
20
Q
As long as you received communications from
21
Q You were never a member of any of those
21
doctors, did you ever receive any from a Dr
. Vidas?
22
associations, is that correct?
22
A Again. I'm not certain if he was a
23
A I was a member of the what used to he --
23 signature
.
24
God. what was it called? Well
. now called the
24 Q How about Dr. Zwicky?
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pages
51 to 54
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pa g e
Pace
A
Q
A
Same thing .
Do you know Dr. Vidas personally?
No .
1 A
Q
Yes .
Sir, are you a member of the Universalist
Unitarian Church?
4 Q Do you know Dr. Zwicky personally?
4
A No .
A No .
~- Q
Have you ever been there for any meetings?
e Q
A
Q
Do you know Dr
. Parker McRae?
No .
Do you know Dr . Steven Smith?
6A
Q
A
No .
Are you a member of St . Thomas Church?
No .
0
A
No .
9 Q Have you ever been there for any meetings?
10 Q Do you know Bill Rutherford?
10 A No .
I assume funerals don't count .
11 A Yes .
11
Q They do not
. Have you ever received any
12 Q How do you know Mr
. Rutherford?
12 contributions from the Peoria Medical Society??
13 A "Through Wildlife Prairie Park
. I'm a
A No .
1 4 member . I seas a member
.
14
Q
Ever received any contributions from any
15 Q What is Wildlife Prairie Park?
1 other citizens or medical groups?
16
A
It's a state park .
16 A No .
17 Q What does membership involve?
1? Q Do you know Barb Van Auken?
16
A
Getting in at a smaller fee and support for
16 A Yes .
19
the park
.
1 9
Q How do you know her?
20 Q When were you a member of Wildlife Prairie
20 A She's my city representative
.
21 Park?
I Q Do you consider her a friend?
22 A Up
until my membership lapsed recently . We
22
A
An acquaintance, yes .
23 haven't reupped y et .
2 3 Q Well, is she a friend or an acquaintance if
24 Q Have you ever socialized with
we have to distinguish between the two?
Page 52
Page 54
I
Sir
. Rutherford?
1 A I'm not sure hosv you distinguish them
. I
2 A Yes .
2 have attended fundraisers at her home,
I supported
Q On how many, occasions?
3 her in the election . It's not like --
we do not
A Two . three .
Q %\ ould you consider him a friend?
4
o
socialize .
Q It's not like you don't socialize?
A No .
Q Has he been in your home?
6 A
We don't socialize other than in political
c\ ents .
8 A No .
Q Did she ever attempt to communicate with
9 Q have you been in his?
9 you regarding her feelings on the PDC application?
10 A No .
1 0 A No .
1' Q Have you ever been to a meeting of the
11 Q Did you have any conversations with her
12 Peoria Families Against Toxic \Paste
12 about that application at any time while it was
13 A No .
13 pending?
14 Q (lave you ever been to a meeting of Citizens
1 4 A No .
15 for Our Environment?
15 Q Do you know Dr . Akeson?
16 A No
.
15
A No .
1 7
Q Ever been to a meeting of River Rescue?
1
Q Do you know his wife Beth Akeson?
18 A No .
19 A No
.
19
Q Are there any other organizations with an
19 Q
You've indicated you know Joyce
20 environmental or economical component that you
have 20 Blumenshine?
21 been a member of in the last five Nears besides
the
21 A Yes
.
22 Sierra Club and the Prairie Park?
22 Q When's the last time you had a conversation
2 3 A l
ri-County Regional Planning .
23 with her about any subject other than to just see
24 Q That's a governmental entity, right?
2 4 her and say hi, Joyce?
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Pages 55 to 58
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
:aae
1 A
Probablv on one of the hikes to Starved
A No .
2 Rock .
2 Q
I take it you know Tom Edwards?
3 Q Did any of those hikes occur last winter
A Yes .
4 while the application was pending?
4
Q
Do you have a personal relationship with
5
A I think they did have one in January
. yes .
him or is your knowledge of him just as an elected
6
Q
Do you know Tessie Bucklar?
F official dealing with a vocal member of the public?
7
A
No .
A No . I haze personal know ledge of'hi n .
8
Q
Do you know Tom Bucklar?
P
Q What's the nature of your personal
y
10
A
Q
No .
Do you know Ted Converse?
9
10
relationship with Mr . Edwards?
A He %+orked on our root
.
11 A No .
Q
When did he work on your roof!
12
Q
Do you know Ralph or Jane Converse?
12
A
Oh. it's been five. six 'ears ago .
13 A No .
1 3
Q
Was the work satisfactory?.
14 Q I take it you do know Bill Cook?
A Yes .
15 A Yes .
Q
Y'ou paid him for his efforts
16 Q He's -- would you consider him a friend or
16
A Yes .
17 an acquaintance?
1 -
Q
Other than that, do you have any personal
18 A A friend .
18
relationship with Mr
. Edwards?
19 Q So the two of you do socialize?
19 A No . We do not socialite . put it that way .
20 A No . A friend -- a colleague would be
20
Q Has Mr
. Edwards ever made a contribution to
21 better, more specific term
.
2'' you or given you anything of value?
22 Q These are horrible distinctions, colleague,
22
A No .
23
friend, acquaintance
. I'm just trying to
2 3 Q
Do you know Lisa or Peter Offutt?
24 understand the nature of the relationship
.
24 A No .
Page 56
Page
2
Mr
. Cook was out on the faculty with you at
ICC, correct?
1
Q
Do you know Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
A No
.
4
A
Q
Yes .
Did he ever attempt to communicate to you
4
Q
Do you Elmo Roach or Jean Roach?
A No .
5 regarding his position on the landfill expansion?
Q
Do you know Cara Rosson?
F
8
A Not d irectlc . n o .
Q How did he attempt to communicate with you
7
8
A No .
Q
Do you know Amy Schlicksup?
indirectly?
A No .
9 A Well
. he had posters on his door. things
9
Q
Do you know Bill Scott?
11
like that .
10
1
A No.
Q You were aware of the posters on his door?
Q
Do you know Cathy Stevenson?
12 A Yes .
_ 2
A No .
14
Q Did he ever give you any handouts?
A No
.
13
14
Q
Do you know Diane Storey?
A No .
15 Q Did he ever leave any flyers under your
1 5
Q
Do you know Mayvis Young?
16 office door or in your office?
1 6 A No .
17 A No .
17 Q With regard to all of the people that I
18 Q Did you ever discuss the reasons for or
18 have just mentioned in about the last 10 minutes of
19 nature of his opposition?
1 9
questioning, have you ever received anything of
20 A No . I informed him that I couldn't hold
20 value from any of them?
21 anything -- you know . hold those kinds of
21 A No.
22 conversations .
2 2
Q Do you recall any verbal communication with
23
Q
Did you ever receive a campaign
2 3 any of those individuals regarding the substance of
24 contribution from Mr. Cook?
2 4 this application?
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
A No .
Q
Did any of those individuals ever attempt
to communicate their views regarding this
application to you verbally either over the phone
or in direct conversation?
A
I can't recall it thev did
. I nouldn't
recognize the name and that sort of thing an' na' .
MR . Ml IFLI .ER
: Let's take a ttto-minute
9 break . I ma% he done
.
1 0
(Recess from 10 :23 to 10 :28)
11
MR
. MUELLIER : Hack on the record .
12 HY MR . MUELLER :
13
Q Mr. Thomas, did you ever donate to River
14 Rescue?
15
A No .
1
1 6
Q
Did you ever donate to Citizens for Our
7 Environment?
1r
A No .
18
1 9
Q
Ever donated to Peoria Families Against
1 9
20 Toxic Waste?
20
21
A
No .
21
22
Q Have you ever given money to any individual
22
23 who said he or she was going to use it in
23
24 opposition to the landfill expansion?
24
Page 60
1
A No .
Q
Did you pay for any billboards to be
erected?
4
A No .
Q
Did you participate in the making ever of
6 any yard signs?
A No .
8
Q Would the same answers be given by your
9 wife if 1 were to ask her the same questions about
10 donations?
11 A
Yes .
12 Q Sir, what is your home telephone number?
13
A
The area code's (309)673-0083 .
14
Q Did you have a direct line into your office
15 when you taught at ICC?
16
A Yes .
17 Q What was that number?
18 A Same area code, 694-5574 .
19 Q 5574?
20
A Yes .
21
Q Do you have a cell phone, sir?
22 A Yes .
23 Q What is that number?
24
A 453-0501 .
MR . Ml IFI .LIER : Let's go otl the record
lot a second .
(Discussion oil the record .)
MR . MUFI .I .ER : Let's
eo hack on the
record .
BY MR . MUIEI .I
.ER :
Q
Did you bring any documents or records with
you today, Mr
. Thomas?
A No.
Q
Did you wish to make any other statement
regarding your role in the decision-making process
A No .
MR Mt4:LLER
: Then I'll let 'oil go and
14 attend to nhateser more interesting things \ou hace
15 to do tbr the rest ofthe das .
16
Signature??
MR . BROWN : Reser ethat .
6
8
10
1-
(Further deponent saith not .)
Pages 59 to 61
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
STATE OF ILLINOIS
SS
COUNTY OF PEORIA
_, Aana M . Dittos, CSR, RPR, and Notary
Public in and
for the County of Peoria, State cf
Illinois, do hereby certify that
heretofore, to-wit,
on Tuesday, September
12th, 2006, personally appeared
before me at 416 Main Street, Suite
1400, Peoria,
Illinois :
JAMES W . THOMAS, a Jhaterial witness
herein .
1 further certify that the said witness
was
by me first duly sworn to testify
to the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth in the cause
aforesaid ; that the testimony then given by
said
witness was reported stenographicall.y by me in the
presence of said witness
and afterwards reduced to
typewriting, and the foregoing is a true ana correctt
transcript cf the testimony
so given by said witness
as aforesaid .
further certify that the signature
of the
witness was
not waived .
further certify that I am, not counsell for
nor in any way related to any of
the parties to this
suit, nor am I in any way
interested in the outcome
thereof .
In testimony whereof,
I hereunto set my
hand and affix my notarial se
en this day, Tuesday,
September 19th, 2006 .
Notary Publ
I
k b,
Aana M . Diftos, Certified Shorthand Reporter
(State of Illinois License #084-003571)
My commission expires 07/29/07
.
OFFICIAL
AANA M GIFTOSSEAL
NOTARY
•
STATERES
.
Ll.IN0
MYC
EX~
TR40
7
Page 63
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
A
Aana 1 :11 63:3
21
about
3 :14 7 :24
10 :15 11
:14 .19
12 :6 14 :2 15 :17
15 :18 17 :7
.9 .16
17
:18 19 :8 .12 .16
21 :2 .21 22 :7
.22
27 :1 28
:24 29
:3
34
:17.19.21 35 :1
36 :6.11 38 :18
.24
39 :19 40:15 48:18
50
:24 54:12,23
58 :18 60:9
academic
7 :17
accomplish 12:6
accordance
3 :10
according 16 :15
33 :12
account
21 :18
30 :15
accumulate
12:1
accumulated 10:1
accumulating
10:9
13 :10
accumulation 9:1
10 :21
accurate 14:12.14
accurately
10 :9
acquaintance
28 :19 45
:6 49 :14
53 :2123 55 :17.23
Act 9:19
actively
46:11
activities 44:7 45 :6
45 :15 .21 46:7
actually 15 :12.16
27:11
additional 4 :2
address 7 :21,23 8 :3
adjudicatory 7 :18
18:16 19 :2 20
:16
20:18
adversarial 16 :5
advice 10 :3 17
:13
advise 26:1 .4
advised 3 :17 17:3
affiliation 48:3
affix 63
:17
aforesaid 62:9.11
63 :9,11
after 27 :24 35 :7
afterwards 29:24
63 :10
again 18 :19 24:9
26:2.5 40 :20 45 :6
50:22 62 :10
Against26 :17 32:5
52 :12 59 :19
age 6:22
ago 14 :19 4923
57 :12
agreement 3 :10 .24
4 :20
ahead 36 :18
Akeson 54 :15 .17
Allen 36:15
allowed 23 :2 40 :20
Amy 58 :7
and/or 13 :24 20 :2
another 21 :14
answer 4:2') .24 5 :8
6:5.8,11 .13
answers 3 :15 .18 .?0
4:1 60:8
anyone 13 :7 30
:21
32
:9
anything 10:14
18 :1 21 :12 34:19
41 :7 42 :12 46:6
47 :8 .13 48 :9
56 :21 57:21 58:19
anyway 31 :1 59 :7
apologies 15 :24
apologize 19:18
approach 29 :3,8
36:21 .23 37:1
approached
22 :3
22:18 3022
appropriate 4 :23
approval 31 :24
35 :8
approve
5 :16
approximate 37 :17
Arbor
49 :2 .2
arches 49:1
area 9:12 45 :18
49 :1 60 :13 .18
around 14:17 37 :24
46 :3
articles 41 :10
aside 21
:9 22 :4
asked 14:9 36 :15
asking 11 :22 17 :9
19:8
assistance 13 :3 .9
associated 47 :20
Association 46 :19
46:24
associations 48 :20
48 :22
assume 5 :9 53 :10
assumed 15
:24
assuming
19 :14
attorney-client
17 :9
August 7 :10
Auken 53 :17
authoritative 41 :8
Avenue 7 :22 8 :2
aware 924 11 :23
away
42:20
awhile 12 :20
a.m 1 :13
B
bachelor's 6:17
back9 :10 14 :21
15 :19 33 :14 39:18
59 :11 61 :4
Barb 53 :17
base 20 :12
basement 15 :3
basically 17 :5
basis 8 :14
became 16 :20
before 1 :1,11 3
:12
4 :12 27 :13,21
JAMES
THOMAS
9-12-2006
besides 26:10 52 :21
best
24
:8
Beth 54:17
better
55 :21
between
3 :24 15
:13
16 :5 18 :13 21 :22
39 :4 50 :8 53
:24
Bill2 :3 13 :23 17 :1
17 :1 20 :1 51 :10
55 :14 58:9
billboards 38 :5.12
60:2
bit 20:4 36 :4
Black
1 :22 .22
blocks 37 :19,20
Bluff 48:20
Blumenshine 25 :16
25 :17 26:1,10
33:7 43:1 .5 44:19
54:20
board
1 :2.7 4 :4
36:6,11 37 :2,21
39 :10 40 :19 41 :24
62 :2,6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
12:14,17 13 :1 .2
15:10.11 16 :11
.14
16:18.20 31 :23
32:5 33 :5 34 :11
46:5 56 :11
Page 64
apparently
20 :1
Atkins 2:3 13 :24
2923 39:10 41 :1
appeal 11 :17 12 :1 .2 17:1 .1 20 :2
62 :120 63 :5
14
:3
.11
attempt 26:2 29 :4 began 14 :23 46 :10
APPEARANCES
33
:9.11
37 :2 54 :8 beginning 16 :21
1 :15
56 :4 .7 59 :2
behalf
1 :20.24 3 :13
appeared
63
:4
attend
31 :9,15
11 :20 22:12.16.19
application 5:16
61 :14
being 3 :2 4
:16
9 :2.15 17:7,16
attended
46:23
18 :13 .13,16 19 :13
28 :24 29:24
32 :3
54 :2
20 :16.19 42 :15
32 :9 34 :14,22
attic 15 :3
belief 10:24 11
:2
35 :2.17 37:3 38 :6 attorney
13 :14 33 :4 17 :18
38:14 39:1 .4 54 :9 Attorney's 13 :8,17 believe 6 :2 13 :13
54:12 55 :4 58 :24
13
:18 16 :19.23
13 :22 14 :11 17 :14
59:4
17 :14 20 :3
38 :21 43 :4 45 :23
5:24 7 :1,18 8 :13
12 :3 14
:10 16:12
17 :3 .5 19 :19.23
24 :10 29
:13 34:23
35 :12.16,22 36 :6
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 65
I
Both 45 :17
bother
42:15
box 14 :18
boxes
15 :3
Bradley 8 :2 48 :18
branch
18:22 .24
branches 19:16
break
34 :24 59 :9
BRIAN 1 :18
bring 61 :7
broader 36:4
Brown 1 :22 .22
3 :13 4:6,7 5:20
6
:6,12 17:8 35 :4
35:21 40:18 61
:17
Bucklar 55 :6.8
busy 12:19 42 :9
C
ca1123 :8
called 1 :10 12 :1
48 :24.24
49 :2
calling 24 :12
43:3 50 :22
certainly
38
:16
Certified 63 :21
certify 62:8
63
:4.7
63 :12 .14
chapter
43 :13 44 :8
44 :20
clarify 18 :18
class 31 :13
clear 19:9,12 23 :10
commencing
1 :13
comment 12 :13
commission 62
:23
63
:22
committee
48 :18
common 19 :11
communicate
constituents 17 :24
18:9
20:7 21 :6
41 :6
constituent's
30:15
30 :18
consult
43 :23
consultants 35 :2
4
corrections
62 :15
correspondence
32:18
Coulter 2 :2 .2 18 :4
counsel 61 :14
counsel's 17:9
count 53 : 1 0
county, 1 :7.12 3 :23
4 :1 .4 5:24 6:24
8 :11,13 .1821
11 :20 .24 12 :23
13:3 16:12
18:5
19 :19 .23 24 :10
29:12
31
:21 33:4
34 :15 .23 35 :3 .11
35:16 22 36
:5,6
36 :11 37 :21 39 :10
40 :10,19 41 :24
62 :6 63 :2.3
couple 37:22
45 :7
course 47 :7 50 :5
court 1
:1 1 4:1720
covered 4:3
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
calls 32:8.11 .14
clearly 6 :2
23 :7 24 :22 62 :3
9:4.11 10 :12
.15
CSR 1 :12 63 :3
came 3 1 : 12
clerk 8:1821 33 :4 complete
14 :24
11 :13,19 12 :6.10 current
7:21 50 :1
campaign 47 :23
clerks 10 :22
62:10
14 :1,5 15 :17 27 :1
48 :5 .8 56 :23
clerk's 13 :4
completed 15:1
27
:21 28 :2.4,6 .23
D
campaigns
29:17
clinical 7:13
completely 4:3
35 :15 36 :9 39 :7,8
D 2 :5
candidate 47 :1,3
closely 39 :23 40 :1 component 52 :20
39 :16 50 :4 54 :11
date 28 :1
capacity
20 :6 47 :2
club 33 :8 43 :11
.16 comptroller 50 :1
56:22
Dave 22 :21
Cara 58:5
43 :18 44 :1 .6.9,14 concept 16 :2.9
Converse
25 :12 .13
David
1 :22 36 :21
case 3 :23 4
:12
44 :17 .20 45
:8,12 concepts 19:7
25 :18 26 :4,10,16
48 :12 49 :7.10
10:22 11 :14 12 :15
45 :15 .21,23 46 :11 connection
9
:1
27:2,16
28 :8
day 24 :13 61 :15
14 :9 20 :10
.19
52 :22
Conover 25:1
1
55 :10,12
62 :20 63 :17
28 :11 14 :142 :15
code 60:18
consider 30:18
Converse's 28 :15
days 31 :11
cases 15 :14
code's
60 :13
42 :12 49 :13 52 :5 convinced 39 :21
dealing 44 :6 57 :6
Cathy 58 :11
colleague 55 :20,22
53 :21 55 :16
Cook 55 :14 56 :1,24
dealt 32 :2
cause 63 :8
College
7:15 42 :4 consideration
copies 14 :9 34 :4
decision 20 :12
caused 44:3
Columbus 1 :16
30:24
copy 12 :1
21 :11 28 :1 30 :16
cell 60:21
comfortable 24:18 consisting 62 :9
correct 5 :17 8 :14
30 :19 31 :7 36 :7
Central
7 :15 42 :3
coming 34 :12 39 :11 constituent 18 :10
8 :19 11 :6 37
:16
36
:12 42 :13
certain 11 :4 13 :11
commencement
21 :10 .17,22 30
:12 42 :1 .7.13 48 :22
decisions 19:3
13 :12,21 15 :16
48 :14
47:9
56:2 62 :10 63 :10
decision-maker
characterize
27 :9
25 :22 26 :2.5 29
:4 consulted 13 :19
charge 4') : 18
33
:14 36 :18 37 :2 consults 13 :14
check 62
:12
54:8
56 :4.7 59 :3 contacted
36:14
chief 11 :8
children 8 :5,10
communication
15:22
58 :22
contents 40 :2
contributed 29 :16
chose 15 :7 35 :19 communications
contribution 56:
Chris 58 :1
14 :10.13 15 :5.13
57 :20
Church 53 :3 .7
16 :3.4.14
17 :10 contributions
Cindy 28 :15
20 :20 21 :2 23 :6
47 :24 48 :6.8
citizen 18 :5
24 :5 .19 25 :1 .10
53
:12,14
citizens 37 :6 52 :14
26 :7 33 :19 .22
Control
1 :2 12 :3
53 :15 59 :16
34 :3 39
:24 40 :3
62 :2
city 40
:10 53 :20
425,12 50 :8 .14 conversation
3 :14
50 :16 .20
17:13 29 :1 36 :10
community 8 :8
company 1
:4 12 :12
54:22
59 :5
conversations 8:23
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 66
decision-making
6 :1
18:16 20:16
61 :11
definitions 19 :10
defunct 49
:1
degree
6 :16 .19
18 :19
delegate 10 :20
delegated 11 :1
Democratic 8
:17
depend
23 :8
depending 9 :7
deponent 61 :19
deposition 1 :10 3
:9
4 :12 5:22
62 :8.11
depositions 1 :11
3 :21 .23 4:3
deputy 10:22 11 :8
describe 19:2
desk 32 :21
determined 46 :11
Diane 58 :13
difference 18 :12
differences 18 :18
different 20 :4
34:14 35 :8
.13
46 :15 56 :18
discussed 39:4
Discussion 61 :3
discussions 39:7
Disposal 1 :4 23 :7
24:22 62 :3
34:20 53:24
54:1
district 13 :14 28 :9
37 :12
.14 .18 .21
38 :2 49 :2.2
doctor 29 :6
doctors 50:16 .21
documents 61 :7
donate
59:13 .16
donated 59
:19
donations 44 :17
60:10
done 59:9
door 56 :9,11,16
doubts 39 :21
down 4:17,21 34 :24
each 19:11
earliest 9:10
economical
52 :20
education 6 :15
Edwards 41 :18
57:2,9 .18,20
effect 30:23
efforts 57 :15
Eight 8:22
Eighteen
7 :2
either 6 :10 11 :5
37:14 57
:5
election
24 :15
49:24 54 :3
electronically
24 :5
Elias
1 :19
Elmo 58 :3
employee
12 :23
employees 13 :4
23
:11
end 47 : 10
enjoy
44 :7
entity 52 :24
Environment
52
:15 59 :17
environmental
9:19 48:9 52:20
erected 60 :3
errata 62 :13
ESQUIRE 1 :16 .18
1 :18
.22
estimate 9:6 23 :15
32:17 37 :10 39 :9
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PCB06-184
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY
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PCB06-184
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9-12-2006
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Peoria 1 :4.7.12 .13
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Paqe 69
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v .
PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 70
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JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 72
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JAMES THOMAS
9-12-2006
Page 73
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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Exhibit 10
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
CondenseItn'
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 1 - Page 4
Page 3
INDEX
Carol Trumpe
9/13/06
BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY,
Petitioner,
11
ORIGINAL
1
NO . PCB 06-164
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD,
Respondent .
THE DEPOSITION of CAROL TRUMPE, a witness
herein, called for examination pursuant to notice and
the Supreme Court Rules as they pertain to the taking of
depositions before Angela M . Jones, CSR, RPR, and a
Notary Public in and for the County of Tazewell, State
2
3
WITNESS :
Peg.
CAROL TRUMPE
Examination by Mr . Mueller 4
5
6
9
EXHIBITS :
12
EXHIBIT 23
30
Copy
of Personal Messages Calendar
1B
' EXHIBIT RETAINED BY PETITIONER'S COUNSEL
20
of Illinois, on Wednesday, September 13, 2006, at 416
Main Street, Suite 1400, Peoria, Illinois, commencing at
the hour of 1 :05 p .m .
APPEARANCES :
Pa g e 2
Page 4
2
1
(Witness sworn .)
3
GEORGE MUELLER, ESQUIRE
526 Columbus Street, Suite 204
2
CAROL TRUMPS,
3 called as a witness, after being first duly sworn, was
4
Ottawa, Illinois 61350
and
6
JANAKI NAIR, ESQUIRE
BRIAN J . MEGINNES, ESQUIRE
4 examined and testified upon her oath as follows :
5
EXAMINATION
6
BY MR . MUELLER :
Elias, Meginnes, Riffle 4 Seghetti, P .C .
416 Main Street, Suite 1400
7
Q Would you state your full name, please?
B
Peoria, Illinois 61602
On Behalf of the Petitioner
;
8
9
A Carol Ann Trumpe .
DAVID A . BROWN, ESQUIRE
9
MR. MUELLER: Let the record show : This is
BI aCk, Black L Brown
10 the discovery deposition of Carol Ann Trumpe taken
Morton,
101 South
Illinois
Main Street61550
11 pursuant to notice, in accordance with rules, and by
on Behalf of the Respondent :
12 agreement of the parties .
ALSO PRESENT :
13
Q Mrs . Trumpe, have you had your deposition
14 taken before in any case for any reason?
15
A No.
16
Q Let me go through some of the ground rules
BILL ATKINS, ASA
17 with you real quickly .
ROYAL COULTER,
POD
ROD
19
MATT COULTER ,
18
First of all, everything that I say and
J0
19 that you say is being taken down by a court reporter,
22
20 and what that means is that only one of us can talk at a
21 time . So I'll wait for you to finish your answers, and
24
22 you can wait for me to finish my questions . It also
23 means that nonverbal communications such as shaking or
24 nodding of the head cannot be taken down . So we try to
9/13/06 Carol Trum
CondenscIt'r''
TIN ERVICE (309) 690-3330
PD
Page 5
- Page 8
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
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Page 5
say yes and no as appropriate
. Do you understand all of
that?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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Page 7
sociology with a gerontology major from Purdue
University .
A Yes .
Q And during your professional life, did you
Q
Do you also understand, ma'am, that you are
do anything besides teaching? Did you have any other
under oath?
professions?
A Yes .
Q If I ask you a question and it's not clear
A No .
Q You taught for a period at ICC?
to you, feel free to have me rephrase it
. If you answer
A Yes . And also at isu . I taught sociology
a question, I'm going to assume that it was clear to you
and you understood the question
. Is that fair?
for a couple of years, about 1965 to '7
.
Q You are a member of the Peoria County
Board?
A Yes
.
Q What district?
A 15.
Q What are the approximate boundaries of your
district?
A At the west edge -- it's the county edge --
A Yes .
Q Thank you very much
.
Now, what is your address, Mrs
. Trumpe?
A 6904 West Challacombe Road,
C-h-a-l-I-a-c-o-m-b-e, Edwards, Illinois, 61528
.
Q How long have you lived at that address?
A 36 years .
Q And you are married ; is that correct?
A Yes .
Q What's your husband's name?
A Richard Martin Trumpe .
Q What is his profession?
A He's retired .
Q When did he retire?
1 have Brimfield Township, Precinct 1
. Then I have all
of Jubilee, all of Rosefield, all of Radnor, the parts
of Kickapoo which are unincorporated, Medina 3, Precinct
3, part of it . Then I have Peoria City Precincts 93 and
92 and parts of 78, 88, and that means that I go from
the western edge of the county clear over to Knoxville
Avenue but not east of it and as far north as Cedar
Page 6
Page 8
1
A He retired in 1995 .
1 Hills Drive and as far south in the city as Candletree
.
2
Q And what was his job prior to his
2
Q Is the PDC proposed site in your district?
3
retirement?
3
A It wasn't -- it isn't now, but it was at
4
A He was associate dean for Student Affairs
4 one time before the redistricting in 1990 -- I'm sorry
.
5 at the University of Illinois College of Medicine
.
5 2000 .
6
Q Was that the college branch in Peoria here?
6
Q How long have you been on the County Board?
7
A Yes, the Peoria campus .
7
A 17 years total .
8
Q So I take it you and your husband are well
8
Q So you would be in the middle of a term
9 acquainted with local physicians?
9 now?
10
A He more than I
. I know the ones I see .
10
A I'm up for re-election
.
11
Q Now, are you retired?
I 1
Q Oh, you are
. What party are you running
12
A No . I'm on the County Board
. I don't
12 in?
13 think I'm retired
.
13
A Republican
.
14
Q Are you otherwise employed besides as a
14
Q And do you have any opposition in this
15 County Board member?
15 election?
16
A No.
16
A Yes .
17
Q And when were you last employed other than
17
Q What is the name of your opponent?
18 as a County Board member?
18
A Sharon Williams of Brimfield
.
19
A I did some teaching for icc about 1982,
19
Q Did Mrs
. Williams or Miss Williams, as part
20
'83
.
20 of her campaign, ever express an opinion about the
21
Q What's your educational background,
21 landfill expansion?
22 Mrs. Trumpe?
22
A I don't know
.
23
A I have a bachelor's degree in sociology
23
Q To your knowledge, has the landfill
24 from Colorado State University and a master's degree in
24 expansion been an issue in your campaign?
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt"`
Page 9
1
A I've been asked about it in interviews .
2
Q Has Miss Williams expressed publicly a
3 position with regard to that expansion?
4
A
Yes .
5
Q What was her expressed position?
6
A She was opposed to it .
7
Q Now, during the hearing process and the
8 decision-making process after the hearing, what was your
9 understanding of the County Board's role and
10 responsibility with regard to receiving communications
I I outside the hearing context?
12
A We were told we were not to communicate
13 with people about it .
14
Q And did you also have an understanding with
15
regard to receiving communications about the proposal?
16
A I think we were to hold onto them and turn
17 them in .
18
Q Was it your understanding that you were not
19 supposed to publicly express opinions but it was
20 appropriate for you to receive expressions of opinions
21 from your constituents and other members of the public?
22
A Do you want to break that down into two
23
questions?
24
Q Was it your understanding that while you
Page 10
1 weren't supposed to communicate your opinions about the
2 proposal, it was appropriate for you to receive opinions
3 from the public?
4
A Yes. I could receive them .
5
Q And what was your understanding as to how
6 you should incorporate those expressions of opinion into
7 your decision-making process?
8
A That was not appropriate .
9
Q Then I guess the question would be : What
10 was the purpose of receiving public opinions if you
I I weren't supposed to consider them?
12
A It's a matter of courtesy
. If someone
13
sends you a letter, you don't know it's coming, you just
14 receive it . Or if someone calls you, you don't hang up
15 on them . You listen, but you don't respond with any of
16 your opinion .
17
Q So it's your position that you understood
18 that you were not to consider whatever opinions or facts
19 you received from the public outside the hearing
20 process?
21
A That's right.
22
Q Would the same be true for facts and
23 expressions of opinion received from your constituents?
24
A No difference .
Page 11
I
Q Do you remember telling Royal Coulter
2 several years ago that you would support his effort for
3 expansion of his landfill?
4
A I listened attentatively and thought I
5 could . I'm not sure I gave a complete approval . That
6 would have been kind of preliminary .
7
Q Is it the opposition of the medical
8 community that caused you to change your mind?
9
A
No .
10
MR . BROWN : Objection .
11
MR . MUELLER: She's answered the question .
12 BY MR . MUELLER :
13
Q Now, Mrs
. Trumpe, are you acquainted with a
14 Dr . Rodney Lorenz?
15
A No .
16
Q Does your husband still serve on the Peoria
17
Medical Alumni Council?
18
A
Yes .
19
Q And have you ever gone to any of the
20 meetings of the council?
21
A Not a meeting, no .
22
Q Were you present at the July 23rd, 2006,
23 meeting of the Peoria Medical Alumni Council?
24
A
I don't go to the meetings of the council .
Page 12
1
Q Do you go to any of their social functions?
2
A Occasionally, yes .
3
Q And how many of those would you have been
4
to in the last two years?
5
A Probably one a year.
6
Q And are you aware that Dr
. Rodney Lorenz is
7 a member of the Peoria Medical Alumni Council?
8
A Yes .
9
Q Does that refresh your recollection as to
10 whether or not you know Dr . Lorenz?
11
A I met him and shook his hand at one
12
function, but I do not know the man other than that .
13
Q You've never had a one-on-one conversation
14 with him?
15
A No .
16
Q Do you know what his view is regarding the
17 proposed expansion?
18
A No .
19
20
21
22
23
24
•
Do you know Dr . John McLean?
A Repeat the name .
•
John McLean .
A
No.
•
Do you know Dr. Vidas?
A No .
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 9 - Page 12
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt n"
PDC
v . PCB
•
Do you know Dr. Zwicky?
A No .
•
Do you know Dr . Parker McRae?
A No .
I
2
3
4
5
Q Do you know Dr . Steven Smith?
6
A No.
7
Q Have you ever been a patient or had a
8
family member to your knowledge who has been a patient
9 of any of the doctors I've just asked about?
10
A No .
11
Q And have you ever -- are you familiar with
12 a Dr . McGee?
13
A Yes .
14
Q What's his first name?
15
A I don't remember his first name .
16
Q How do you know him?
17
A He was my --
is my husband's physician .
18
Q Have you ever received any campaign
19 contributions from any doctor, hospital, or medical
20 association?
21
A No
.
22
Q Have you or your husband ever had any
23
professional affiliation either as an employee, a
24 consultant, or member of a board or committee with any
Page 13
Page 14
1 of the hospitals in Peoria?
2
A No
.
3
Q Now, with regard to the various doctors
4
I've asked you about other than Dr . McGee, when you say
5
you don't know them, would your answers be the same if I
6
would ask you if you are familiar with them enough to
7 recognize them?
8
A No . I really am not .
9
Q So that, in the case of Drs
. McLean, Vidas
10
Zwicky, Parker McRae, and Smith, you have no personal
11 knowledge as to who they are?
12
A No.
13
Q No, meaning no, you don't ; or no, meaning
14
I'm correct?
15
A
I do not know them . That's what I mean .
16
Q And you do not have personal knowledge of
17 them?
18
A No .
19
Q No, meaning that you don't have personal
20 knowledge
; or no, meaning that I'm wrong?
21
A
I don't have personal knowledge .
22
Q Thank you
. Did Dr . McGee ever talk to you
23 about this proposal?
24
A No .
Page 15
1
Q Do you know whether he ever talked to your
2
husband about this proposal and whether that
3 communication was also forwarded to you?
4
A No, it wasn't . He didn't talk to him about
5 it to my knowledge
.
6
Q Do you know whether your husband, as a
7 former dean of the medical school, was ever approached
8
by anyone to participate in the opposition to the
9 proposed expansion?
10
A No, he was not
.
11
Q His support was not solicited by any
12
individual to your knowledge?
13
A No.
14
Q Now, Mrs
. Trumpe, did you receive both
15 written and oral communications regarding this
16 application other than during the hearing process?
17
A Yes .
18
Q First of all, did you receive e-mails?
19
A Yes .
20
Q
And approximately how many e-mails would
21 you say that you received?
22
A Oh, I don't know
. They were forwarded from
23 the county office when they would come through there,
24
and I probably had 30 maybe .
Page 16
•
Do you have a personal e-mail address at
home?
A I have it .
•
Did you receive any a-mails directly at
that e-mail address?
A
A few .
•
Approximately how many?
A Maybe five or six .
•
Do any of the e-mails that you received
stand out in your recollection?
A No
. They were various ways of saying no in
most cases . I think one or two might have said yes on
the question.
•
Do you remember whether you received any
e-mails from Joyce Blumenshine?
A Yes .
•
How many times would you say you received
e-mails from her?
A Two or three maybe
. Maybe -- around three
or four maybe
.
•
What did you do with a-mails that you
received?
A I turned them in to Lyn Schmidt at the
county state's attorney's office when they asked for us
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
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9/13/06 Carol Trum
Condenselt'T"
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
Page 17
- Page 20
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to turn in all the materials that we had
.
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Page 19
the landfill hearing context?
Q
That would be fairly recently, within the
A Yes.
Q How do you know Joyce Blumenshine?
A I met her on a bus trip around the
last month or two?
A
Q
A couple months ago, uh-huh .
Did you delete e-mails to get them off your
City-County landfill several years ago
. She happened to
be on it when my husband and I were touring that
landfill, and we became acquainted
.
hard drive along the way?
A No.
Q Did you print out e-mails?
A
A few, yes .
Q Why would you print out some and not
others?
A Well, I'll tell you . My son is the one who
does the e-mailing and does the computer things at our
house
; and when they come in for me, he simply prints
them and brings them to me
. So I didn't delete any .
Q
Do you remember whether she was opposed to
that facility?
A
No. It wasn't in opposition . She just
wanted to see how they were handling the waste
. And I
think we were checking the methane generation there
. It
was just an educational tour .
Q When you were on the board, that
City-County landfill was expanded, wasn't it?
Q How old is your
son, and what does he do
for a living?
A Yes
.
Q
Did you vote for that expansion or against
it?
A For it .
Q
Have you ever been at the PDC landfill?
A
Taken a tour?
Q Yes.
A No.
Q Have you ever been there for any other
A Our son is about 45
. He works for the
Jubilee State College Park
. Lives on our farm, helps us
on our place, plus works out there
.
Q Do you have any other children that live in
Peoria County?
A No.
Q Do you have any close relatives who are
Page 18
Page 20
1 employed in any capacity in the medical service
1 reason?
2 industry?
2
A
No
.
3
A No.
3
Q
Were you offered, before the application
4
Q
Did you receive any e-mails from Kim
4 was filed, an opportunity to take a tour of the
PDC
5 Converse?
5 landfill?
6
A Yes.
6
A I might have been .
7
Q Approximately how many would you have
7
Q Is there a reason at that time why you
8 received from her?
8 chose not to take the tour?
9
A Probably like three or four .
9
A I really don't remember.
10
Q Did you receive any -- by the way, when I
10
Q Do you know Jane Converse?
i i
say, "Did you receive," I'm talking about the period
11
A I know of her .
12
between November 9th, 2005, and May 3rd, 2006 .
12
Q
How do you know of her other than her
13
A Uh-huh. Okay.
13
participation in the hearing?
14
Q
Would your answer still be the same?
14
A She's a businesswoman here in the community
15
A Yes.
15 and well known .
16
Q Did you receive any e-mails from Cathy
16
Q Have you ever done any business with her or
17 Stevenson?
17 her company?
18
A Yes. I believe I did .
18
A No.
19
Q Do you know Kim Converse?
19
Q Do you know any other members of the
20
A Not personally .
20 Converse family?
21
Q Had you ever met her prior to these
21
A
No.
22 hearings?
22
Q
Have you ever socialized with Jane Converse
23
A No.
23 or Joyce Blumenshine?
24
Q
Do you know Joyce Blumenshine outside of 24
A Never with Joyce Blumenshine
. I have been
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt'T'`
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 21 - Page 24
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Page 21
at one meeting with Jane Converse years ago that was a
social meeting .
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Page 23
receive fliers or pamphlets regarding the application?
A I think so .
Q
Q In going through material that you've
A
Q
Do you consider her a friend?
No .
In addition to e-mails -- I should also
produced, I notice a number of fliers from River Rescue .
Do those ring a bell?
ask : Did you receive e-mails from Tom Edwards?
A
No .
Q Did you receive any petitions from River
Rescue?
A
Q
Yes .
Do you know Tom Edwards outside of his
making presentations on various matters to the Peoria
County Board?
A I don't think so .
Q In the list of -- or in the materials that
A
Q
No .
Did you also, in addition to e-mails,
you produced is a document entitled Petition Hazards of
the PDC Hazardous Waste Landfill under the authorship of
receive letters from constituents and members of the
general public regarding this application?
River Rescue . Let me show you that document . Does that
refresh your recollection as to whether or not you
A
received documents from River Rescue?
Q
Some, yes .
Approximately how many letters would you
A Yes .
say you received?
Q There is a handwritten addendum on that
A
Q
Maybe 20 or 30 .
And do any of them stand out in your
document . I believe it's, "We now have over 4,500
signatures"?
recollection at this time?
A
Q
A
Q
A
Yes.
Did you make that handwritten addendum?
No .
Do you know how it got there?
I suppose whoever sent it . No . I don't
A
Q
No .
Did you receive any letters from Joyce
Blumenshine or Kim Converse or Tom Edwards?
A We're talking letters as opposed to
1 e-mails?
Page 22
1 know.
Page 24
2
Q That's correct . Hard-copy letters .
2
Q
Do you remember how you got that petition?
3
A Hard-copy letters . I probably did .
3
A No .
4
Q Do you remember from which of them you
4
Q At the time that you got that petition, did
5
would have received letters?
5 you read it?
6
A Maybe all three .
6
A Briefly .
7
Q What did you do with all the letters that
7
Q
Did you read the other materials that were
8 you received?
8 sent to you?
9
A I turned them in to Lyn Schmidt .
9
A I tried to read most materials that came
10
Q While you were a teacher at tcc, did you
10
in .
11 get to know Jim Thomas?
11
Q In the written materials that you produced
12
A I knew of him, very --
well, we weren't
12 for the County at our request, you have produced copies
13 really in the same department or anything .
13
of a number of newspaper articles . Do you recall that?
14
Q
Do you have any social relationship with
14
A Uh-huh .
15
Jim Thomas outside of the two of you being colleagues on 15
Q Uh-huh means yes, correct?
16
the Peoria County Board?
16
A Yes .
17
A
Not really . Sometimes we have social
17
Q And were these newspaper articles that were
18 get-togethers when all the County Board members are
18 given to you or that you clipped out of the newspaper
19 there .
19 and saved for yourself?
20
Q So he's not someone that you'd consider a
20
A They were given to me .
21 family friend?
21
Q Let me show you, in fact, the first page of
22
A No .
22 the documents that we've -- or that you've produced, and
23
Q With regard to the letters or written
23 it's a newspaper article entitled Pollution May Affect
24 communications that you received, did you also ever
24 Kids' Growth, dated December 16th, 2005 . Do you have
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condensell
Page 25
1 that, Mrs . Trumpe?
2
A Yes .
3
Q On the side of it, there is a stamp with
4 your husband and your name and address on it .
5
A And I don't know why .
6
Q Well, I guess that's my question
. Do you
7
know how you came into possession of that particular
8 article?
9
A
I don't remember how I came into possession
to
of it . It may have been given to me . I may have
u stamped that when I turned it in to show that this was
12 mine, that this article was mine . But we received so
13 many things constantly about this that I didn't try to
14 register, you know, who might have submitted it
.
15
Q As you sit here now, you don't recall how
16 you came into possession of that article?
17
A No, not this one .
18
Q However, it would be fair to say that you
19 did not cut the article out and save it for yourself?
20
A I don't believe so . No .
21
Q Did you cut any articles out and save them
22 for yourself as part of this process?
23
A Reports, yes
. Reports of the meetings that
24 we had as a whole County Board, I did
.
Page 26
1
Q The stamp on this, Mrs . Trumpe, is that
2
actually you and your husband's personal stamp that you
3
affix to documents in order to identify them as yours?
4
A Yes .
5
Q If that stamp --
thank you, ma'am . If that
6 stamp appears on other documents, it would also be your
7
and your husband's personal stamp?
8
A Should be . Yes.
9
Q And you don't know why your stamp appears
10 on this particular document
; is that correct?
I I
A Other than just to identify that I had
12 turned it in, I guess, so that they would know if that
13
came in, that that one was from me .
14
Q Well, some of the documents that you turned
15
in are stamped, and some are not . Was there a method to
16 your affixing the stamp?
17
A Well, if the document had another
-- if I
18 thought perhaps that everyone was getting them from the
19 County Board, that that would have been something that
20 everyone would have received, I don't think I would have
21 put a stamp on it .
22
Q Did you receive any direct verbal
23 communications from any members of the public or
24 constituents?
Page 27
1
A Yes .
2
Q Who did you receive verbal communications
3 from?
4
A
Well, I can remember a few, Blumenshine and
5
Mayvis Young and Ester Cohen . There were some others .
6 1 made note of them .
7
Q In the list of documents that were provided
8 to us are a number of handwritten documents by you
;
9 isn't that correct?
10
A I think so . If you show
--
11
Q In fact, you turned in, it looks like, all
12 the notes that you took during the hearings?
13
A I guess I did . When she said "turn in
14 everything," I --
15
Q If I can show you one of those documents, I
16 don't know what numbered page it is, but I'll just show
17 it to you. Mr . Brown and I can figure out where it's
18 located . It starts out with a bullet point, "Applicant
19 failed to use the most recent IEPA data on hazardous
20 waste generation
." Is that your handwriting at the top
21 of that document, Mrs . Trumpe?
22
A Yes .
23
Q Can you read for the record what you wrote
24 there? Because we couldn't make all of it out .
Page 28
1
A "From Allen Mayer, 4/6/06, 10 ayes, 7
2 nays ." This was --
my handwriting says, "The facility
3 is not necessary to accommodate the waste needs
of the
4 area it is intended to serve ." That was Allen Mayer's
5 statement which I copied down . He made that statement
6 and that apparently then -- these are the facts he
7 submitted to substantiate his proffering of
that
8
statement .
9
Q Did Mr . Mayer give that to you privately or
10 in the context of the hearing?
11
A In the latter, the context of the hearing.
12
Q Did you ever have any conversations in
13 which Mr
. Mayer was a party or participant regarding
14
this application?
15
A
No,
not with Mr . Mayer .
16
Q Did you receive any -- or see any yard
17 signs opposed to the facility in your district?
18
A Ooh . I saw a few signs . I'm not sure if
19 they were within my district or in the city .
20
Q And how many yard signs in total would you
21 say that you saw?
22
A Maybe about ten total .
23
Q Did you also see any billboards opposed to
24 the facility?
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page
25 -
Page 28
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt'*`
Page 31
than your notes about it?
A Yes .
Q What do you recall about the conversation?
A
Mayvis Young called and wanted to know how
all of the me expansion would be handled . She thought
perhaps there was a vote on it right away by the County
Board, and I just explained to her the process as it was
laid out for us so that that was just answering her
question really about the procedural thing to do . She
did not know the public would have any input .
•
Did she express any opinion to you at that
time?
A She said that she was opposed to it .
•
Is Mayvis Young one of your constituents?
A No .
•
Do you know why she called you as opposed
to some other County Board member or the county clerk?
A Yeah . She knows me through her husband's
Chinese restaurant
.
Q Would you consider her a friend?
A An acquaintance really
. I don't do
anything with her socially
.
Q Why would you have written a note on the
calendar regarding that conversation?
Page 32
A Because we were told to keep track if we
had contacts, it would be a good idea to write down the
contact . So I just put that in there as a reminder to
myself .
Q The next page of your calendar is
apparently the week of January 26th -- or the week of
January 22nd . There appears to be an entry from an
Ester Cohen or about an Ester Cohen on January 26th?
A Yes.
Q Who is Ester Cohen?
A She called
. She is a Peorian who is active
in the arts, and she called concerning the landfill,
wanting to know about what the public could do about it .
That's what I put down, "public comment possibilities"
with a question mark
.
Q Did you explain to her what she could do
about it?
A
I explained the procedure and said there
would be a point at which public comment is possible and
she should watch for directions about it
.
Q How had you gotten acquainted with the
procedure to the point where you were comfortable
explaining it to other people?
A Well, I had copies of the information about
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v . PCB
Page 29 - Page 32
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A
Q
Page 29
Yes .
And how many of those would you say that
1
2
3
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5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
you saw?
A Just one .
Q Now, you've been kind enough, Mrs . Tr unpe,
to provide us with a copy of certain pages of what
appears to be your calendar ; is that correct?
A
That's the calendar next to my phone ; so,
if calls come in, I make notes if I need to .
Q There apparently are some calls related to
the landfill application reflected on your calendar?
A Yes .
Q Now, you say you made notes if you needed
to
; is that right?
A Yes .
Q That means, I take it, you don't make notes
as to all calls?
A No . No
. I meant the notes that I need to
add a name that called in, I try to write down most of
my calls .
MR . MUELLER : Mr
. Brown, do you have an
extra -- no
. We have an extra copy of the calendar .
Q
Let me pass you two copies of your
calendar, and you can share one with Mr . Brown . We'll
1
Page 30
mark one as an exhibit . I guess it's going to be called
1
2
Exhibit 23, I'm told . I'll give a copy to the court
2
3
reporter, too, and let her mark it.
3
4
Does this exhibit represent your calendar
4
5
with handwritten notes?
5
6
A Yes .
6
7
Q And is all of the handwriting on here
7
8 yours?
8
9
A No.
9
10
Q Who else's handwriting appears on here?
10
11
A My husband .
11
12
Q Is this a calendar kept by the home
12
13 telephone?
13
14
A Yes .
14
15
Q Directing you, first, to the first page
15
16
which appears to be the week of January 8th, there's a 16
17
notation on January 11th that relates what looks like to 17
18 a Mayvis Young
.
18
19
A Yes .
19
20
Q Can you read the handwritten notation for
20
21
the record?
21
22
A Yes . "Mayvis Young, PDC questions on
22
23 procedures ."
23
24
Q Do you remember that conversation other
24
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
CondenscIt"'
Page 33
1 it right in front of me . We knew the schedule and when
2 the periods of commentary were allowed, written
3 commentary, and it had been explained to us by our
4 attorneys .
5
Q Are you or is any member of your family
6
involved in the arts in Peoria?
7
A My daughter was. She has moved away .
8
Q Is that how you came to know Ester Cohen?
9
A Probably .
10
Q Because my next question then is : Do you
11 know why she called you as opposed to some other county
12 official?
13
A
I think she knew my name as a County Board
14
member through my daughter and knew I was on the County
15
Board, so she called the one person she did know .
16
Q Did she express an opinion on the landfill?
17
A She was opposed to it .
18
Q Did you express an opinion to her?
19
A Absolutely not .
20
Q Did you take her opinion into
21 consideration?
22
A It registered when she said it, but that
23 was it .
24
Q The next page in your calendar appears to
Page 34
1
be the week of January 29th . On January 30th, there's
2 an entry relating to the landfill expansion . Can you
3
read that entry into the record, please?
4
A "Harold Reinsma," R-e-i-n-s-m-a, "243-5290 .
5 The drop site, concern over liner long-term, civil
6 engineer, in opposition ."
7
Q Why did you write his phone number down?
8
A
Because, when people call, before they even
9 start talking to me, if it's going to be a County Board
1o
thing, I ask them for a phone number so that if I want
11 to get back to them, if I need to, I have the number and
12 1 don't have to look it up
.
13
Q You did not do that in the case of Ester
14
Cohen, though, or Mayvis Young?
15
A No
. But Mr. Reinsma said he lived in my
16 district .
17
Q He identified himself as one of your
18 constituents?
19
A
Yes .
20
Q Had you ever met him before this phone
21 call?
22
A I don't remember him ; but his children were
23
in school with mine at Dunlap, so he did know of me .
24
Q Did you ever have any conversation with him
Page 35
1 other than on this one occasion?
2
A No .
3
Q What did you do with this information that
4 he provided you other than write it down?
5
A I just wrote it down and listened politely
6
and told him that, you know, I could not discuss it, the
7
hearing would be coming up .
8
Q The next calendar page appears to be the
9 week of April 2nd
. What happened to the months of
10
February and March?
11
A I didn't have any calls, so I didn't copy
12 my whole calendar for you .
13
Q So you only copied those pages that
14 reflected landfill-related calls?
15
A Right
.
16
Q Is your testimony that every call you got
17
is noted on your calendar?
18
A Yes
.
19
Q Did you ever receive calls on your cell
20 phone?
21
A I don't
-- I have a cell phone which I
22
never have on, and I keep it in my purse for emergencies
23
and nobody knows my number .
24
Q Directing your attention to the notation at
Page 36
1 the bottom of Thursday, April 6th, what does that say?
2
A That's my husband's handwriting
.
3 "Blumenshine called" --
and now I can't --
4
Q Actually, you're looking at the 8th . I'm
5 on April 6th .
6
A Oh, I'm sorry . April 6th . This is,
7 "Mom" -- my son did write this one, I guess -- "call Tom
8 Riggenbach," then the number, "687-3892
." That was one
9 call . Beneath it, "Bernard Hoffmeyer, ag lab, 30 years,
10 opposes landfill ." He was another person .
11
Q Is that your writing on Bernard Hoffmeyer?
12
A Yes
. That is mine .
13
Q Then, if we go down to the 8th of April,
14 what's that first notation there?
15
A "Call Tom Hoerr."
16
Q "Re landfill," right?
17
A Yes .
18
Q Who's Tom Hoerr?
19
A He is a businessman in Dunlap with the
20
nursery .
21
Q Did you, in fact, call him?
22
A I returned his call .
23
Q And is that reflected anywhere in your
24 notes?
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v- PCB
Page 33 - Page 36
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt"4
Page 37
1
A What? The substance --
2
Q The returned call .
3
A No . It isn't reflected . See, I checked it
4 off there
--
that means I returned it -- in front of the
5
word "call ."
6
Q Would you have returned the call the same
7 day?
8
A Probably .
9
Q What did Mr . Hoerr express to you regarding
to the landfill?
11
A He talked about it, and I'm trying to think
12
of what his opinion was . It may have been could go
13
either way, that he would not be -- I think that was it,
14 that he would not be averse to seeing it granted . He
15
could see things on both sides . That was about it.
16
Q Then, at the bottom of the page is a
17 notation of, it looks like, "Blumenshine called"?
18
A That's right . And I cannot read my
19 husband's -- "32" -- something -- "stand on this one,
20 show the landfill doesn't" -- I have no idea what all
21 that means . I did probably return the call . I'm not
22 sure if that's a little check next to it or not .
23
Q On the -- if we go up the page a little
24 bit, there's a notation on the 7th
. Can you read that
Page 38
1 for us?
2
A "Nan Powers, Rick Growey, Harold call the
3 bank ."
4
Q Rick Growey, who's he?
5
A I don't even know. Oh, Rick Growey . I
6 don't know what that was about . I'm sorry . I can't
7 remember
. I don't think it was the landfill .
8
Q Did you call Joyce Blumenshine back?
9
A I probably did . Uh-huh .
10
Q
How many times would you say you spoke to
11 her on the phone during this hearing process?
12
A Oh, two or -- probably two, at least these
13 two .
14
Q And she always initiated the contacts?
15
A Yes . I never called .
16
Q Was it your understanding that the
17 litigants, meaning the actual parties in the hearing,
18
were not supposed to be contacting board members outside
19
of the hearing process?
20
A You mean the proponents and the opponents?
21 Clarify that .
22
Q Yeah . That's correct .
23
A I'm not sure .
24
Q Well, was it your understanding that the
Page 39
1 proponents were not supposed to be contacting County
2 Board members outside of the hearing?
3
A Yes, because they were really the
4 litigants . I did not see these other people who were in
5 opposition here as individuals as litigants .
6
Q Well, you were aware that the Sierra Club
7 was actually a registered objector at the hearing?
8
A I didn't know they were registered
.
9
Q Well, you're saying you're not aware that
10 the Sierra Club signed up as an objector and had an
11 attorney who cross-examined witnesses?
12
A Yes .
13
Q And that the Peoria Families Against Toxic
14 Waste group did the same thing?
15
A Yes . I did know that .
16
Q But your position is you did not perceive
17
either the Sierra Club or the Peoria Families Against
18
Toxic Waste as being litigants?
19
A At that time, they were opposing it ; but I
20 guess I didn't.
21
Q Am I also correct then that, while you
22 understood the prohibition against proponents contacting
23 board members outside the hearing, you did not
24 understand that it applied to opponents?
Page 40
1
A Well, the opponents had been sending all of
2 this material to us through the mail and even forwarded
3 e-mails from the County. So we were getting things from
4 them all the time sent out by the County Board to us .
5
Q It never occurred to you that that was
6
against the rules?
7
A Why would they -- I guess no .
8 Q Did it ever seem to you that it was strange
9 that the applicant couldn't talk to you but that the
10 opponents could?
11
A I was listening to the applicant talk to me
12 every time they testified at the hearing .
13
Q Well, but the applicant didn't talk to you
14 outside the hearing?
15
A No.
16
Q You never got any a-mails from PDC, did
17 you?
18
A No.
19
Q You never got any letters from PDC, did
20
you?
21
A No .
22
Q You did get e-mails, letters, and fliers
23 from the Sierra Club, though, didn't you?
24
A Yes .
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 37 -
Page 40
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenseltn'
Page 41
1
Q And you did get e-mails, letters, and
2 fliers from Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste?
3
A
Yes .
4
Q And the same would be true for River
5 Rescue?
6
A Yes .
7
Q Now, when you say that you were having
8
e-mails forwarded to you by the County, can you
9
elaborate on what you mean by that process? I'm not
10 sure I understand exactly what you're saying .
11
A When mail comes to the County Board office
12 for the County Board members, whether it's an e-mail or
13 direct mail or whatever, those things with our names are
14 put in our mailboxes ; and if we're not in there to pick
15 them up directly, at the end of the week, the
16 secretaries pick up each of our stacks of mail and mail
17 them to us . So I was getting correspondence from --
18
about all these things right out of the County Board
19 office .
20
Q The County Board office, though, doesn't
21 screen your mail, do they?
22
A No .
23
Q They forward on everything that comes to
24 you figuring it's your business to determine whether
Page 42
1 it's important or not?
2
A Uh-huh .
3
Q And that being the case, you still thought
4 that because the County was forwarding mail to you that
5 that somehow made those communications legitimate and by
6 the rules?
7
A I just accepted them as coming from the
8 office .
9
Q Let's move to the week of April 9th on your
10 calendar . The notation on April 10th is, "Ester Cohen
11
called in opposition to PDC
expansion," correct?
12
A Uh-huh .
13
Q Anything else you remember about that
14 conversation?
15
A It was just identical to a call she had
16 made earlier, just repeated the same thing
. I just
17 listened, said, "Thank you
."
18
Q Can you read for us the notation on April
19 14th?
20
A "Carol Schafer called, re PDC . They live
21 in area west of landfill, oppose it ."
22
Q Is she one of your constituents?
23
A No, not where she lives .
24
Q Do you know her?
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 41 - Page 44
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Page 43
I know her.
How do you know her?
She goes to my church .
What church is that, ma'am?
Grace Presbyterian Church .
Did you ever have any conversations with
anyone at Grace Presbyterian Church regarding the
landfill?
A No . I didn't bring it up, didn't discuss
it with people
.
Q
A
Did anyone ever bring it up to you?
Well, like this call from Carol, that was
about it .
Q
A
We've exhausted phone calls ; am I correct?
Well, there's some reason that this next
page is on here .
Q Other than phone calls, did you receive any
face-to-face verbal communications?
A People a couple of times raised -- started
to raise the issue, and I said, "I am sorry. I cannot
discuss this," and just stopped conversations, just a
couple of times
.
Q Did you have any conversations with Board
Member Elsasser about the proposed expansion?
Page 44
1
A Yes . Once the testimony of everything
2 closed, we were told that we could talk about this to
3 each other . And I did speak with Mr. Elsasser .
4
Q Do you remember when and where that
5 conversation took place?
6
A I think -- usually like at a committee
7 meeting, if we were -- a lot of people were together .
8 Sometimes people spoke afterwards because they were just
9
in proximity.
10
Q And do you remember what Mr
. Elsasser said
II to you?
12
A Raising questions about some of the
13 concerns over the project
.
14
Q Did you express an opinion to him?
15
A Probably
. We just kind of discussed back
16
and forth pros and cons .
17
Q Did you tell him how you were going to
18 vote?
19
A Toward the very end of the time, I probably
20 did .
21
Q And did he tell you how he was going to
22 vote?
23
A He had pretty much alluded to his position .
24
Q Which was negative, correct?
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
CondenseItt't
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v
. PCB
Page 45 - Page 48
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 45
A Yes .
Q Was there then, during this period after
the hearings closed, a process whereby a coalition of
board members who were opposed to the expansion formed?
A No .
Q Did Dave Williams ever talk to you about
your views on the expansion?
A Maybe once .
Q And do you recall when that was?
A Right at the very end, before the vote,
before the final vote .
Q Was that for the purpose of soliciting your
support with his position?
A No.
Q
What did he say to you?
A I think he just said what he was going to
do, and it wasn't any solicitation .
Q
In Mr . Brown's summary of what he believes
your interrogatory answers would be, he mentions that
you avoided talking about the application until after
the hearings?
A Right.
Q After the hearings, did you feel you were
free to talk about the application with anyone?
I
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 47
City-County landfill, and I was opposed to that
.
Q Do you have any specialized knowledge
outside of what you've learned at the hearings regarding
hazardous waste?
A No .
Q Have you ever been or are you now a member
of any environmental or other group that has
environmental lobbying or education as part of its
mission?
A No .
Q Have you ever received any campaign
contributions from any such groups?
A No .
Q
Did you receive anything of value from
anyone during these hearings other than a plant left on
your doorstep?
A No .
MR. BROWN : Other than the specialized
knowledge about landfills .
MR. MUELLER : That's of dubious value,
Mr. Brown .
MR. BROWN : sorry about the interruption .
MR. MUELLER : Not a problem .
MR. BROWN : Just couldn't pass it up .
Page 46
Page 48
1
A With the fellow board members .
1 BY MR . MUELLER :
2
Q
Did you continue to note phone calls that
2
Q Have you ever been to a meeting or function
3 you would have gotten even after the hearings had
3
sponsored by the Heart of Illinois Sierra Club?
4
closed?
4
A No .
5
A Yes . There's one here from Tim Riggenbach
5
Q Have you ever been to a meeting or function
6 that was the 6th . Maybe it was the day of the hearing .
6 sponsored by the Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste?
7
Q Let's change course here briefly . Do you
7
A No .
8 have any specialized knowledge regarding landfills?
8
Q
Do you know whether you or any member of
9
A Specialized knowledge .
9 your immediate family has ever made a contribution or
10
Q Meaning knowledge other than what you
10 donation to either of those groups?
I I learned at the hearings . At this point, you do have
11
A
No.
12 specialized knowledge, but you came by it the hard way?
12
Q No, you don't know ; or no, they have not?
13
A Right .
13
A No, they have not .
14
Q Other than what you learned at the
14
Q Have you ever been to a meeting or function
15 hearings, do you have any specialized knowledge about
15 of the Citizens for our Environment or River Rescue?
16 landfills?
16
A No, I have not .
17
A Well, having served on the County Board for
17
Q Do you know whether any member of your
18 a number of years and been on committees that followed
18
family has?
19 the business of the City-County landfill, I do know of
19
A No one has
.
20 that . Health Committee supervises that .
20
Q Do you know Jeff Akeson?
21
Q
Have there been any operational problems
21
A Jeff Akeson?
22
with the City-County landfill that cause you concern?
22
Q He's a doctor, I believe .
23
A At one point, there was a suggestion that
23
A Well, I don't know him personally .
24 we incorporate organic matter in the landfill, the
24
Q Do you know of him?
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
CondenscIt"'t
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 49 - Page 52
Page 49
Page 51
I
A I know --
the name is familiar to me, but I
1
MR . BROWN : okay.
2 do not know him .
2
(Recess in proceedings from 2 :11 p.m.
3
Q Have you ever met him to your knowledge?
3
to 2:16 p.m.)
4
A
No.
4 BY MR . MUELLER :
5
Q Do you know Beth Akeson?
5
Q At any time, Mrs . Tnunpe, between November
6
A I'm trying to think
. Certainly not well .
6 9th, 2005, and May 3rd, 2006, did anyone come to your
7 1 mean, she's not somebody I --
7 home for the purpose of expressing their opinion on the
8
Q Is that in the case of name sounds
8 application or encouraging you to vote a certain way?
9 familiar--
9
A No.
10
A Yes.
10
Q Let me run through a list of names again,
11
Q -- but you can't be more specific now?
11 and this time my question isn't whether or not you know
12
A Yeah
.
12 these individuals but, rather, whether or not you have
13
Q
Do you know Tessie Bucklar or Tom Bucklar? 13 ever met them .
14
A No.
14
A Okay.
15
Q Do you know Bill Cook?
15
Q Stop me if I mention someone who you have
16
A No.
16 met.
17
Q Do you know Cindy McLean?
17
A Okay.
18
A No.
18
Q I believe Dr . Lorenz you said yes?
19
Q Do you know Lisa or Peter Offutt?
19
A I shook his hand . Yes.
20
A No.
20
Q John McLean?
21
Q
Do you know Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
21
A No.
22
A
No.
22
Q Dr. Vidas?
23
Q
Do you know Jean or Elmo Roach?
23
A No.
24
A No.
24
Q Dr. Zwicky?
Page 50
Page 52
1
Q Do you know Cara Rosson?
I
A No.
2
A No.
2
Q Dr. Parker McRae?
3
Q Do you know Bill Rutherford?
3
A No.
4
A I know Bill Rutherford .
4
Q Dr. Steven Smith?
5
Q How do you know Mr
. Rutherford?
5
A No.
6
A Through years in the community
.
6
Q Beth Akeson?
7
Q
Do you consider him a friend?
7
A No. The reason I remembered that name was
8
A Not a friend, an acquaintance
.
8 that it was on those letters . That's how I --
9
Q Did you ever have any conversations with
9
Q
That's the reason I asked about it .
10
him regarding the proposed expansion?
10
A Okay.
11
A No.
11
Q Jeff Akeson?
12
Q Do you know Amy Schlicksup?
12
A No.
13
A
Know of the name, but I don't know her .
13
Q Joyce Blumenshine is a yes?
14
Q
Do you know Dr. Bill Scott?
14
A Yes.
15
A
No.
15
Q Tessie Bucklar?
16
Q
Do you know Cathy Stevenson?
16
A No.
17
A No.
17
Q Tom Bucklar?
18
Q Do you know Diana Storey?
18
A No.
19
A No.
19
Q Kim Converse?
20
Q
And you indicated that you do know Mayvis 20
A No
.
21 Young, correct?
21
Q Ted Converse?
22
A Yes.
22
A No.
23
MR. MUELLER: if we can have a short break, 23
Q Ralph Converse?
24 I'm almost done.
24
A I have met Ralph Converse but --
9/13/06 Carol Trumps
Condenselt3N
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 53 - Page 56
Page 53
Page 55
1
Q
In
what
context?
1 PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY,
)
)
2
Petitioner,
2 A
Simply because he's a businessman, and
)
3
vs .
3 someplace back through my Peoria history I was
)
No
. PCB 06184
4 introduced to him .
4 pEO0. A COUNTY BOARD .
5
5
Respondent .
Q Jane Converse, the same?
)
6
A Yeah.
6
7
I hereby certify that I have mad the
7
Q Bill Cook?
foregoing transcript of my deposition given on September
8
13, 2006, at the time and place aforesaid, consisting of
8
A No.
pages I through 54, inclusive, and I do again subscribe
9
Q
Tom Edwards?
9
complete
and make oath
transcript
that the
of
same
my deposition
is a true,
so
correct,
given asand
10
aforesaid
.
10
A Years ago he came on the scene
.
11
11
Q You've never had any personal dealings with
12
12 him, though?
13
Please check one
13
A No.
I have submitted errata sheet(s) .
14
14
Q He's always been on the scene in promoting
I s
No corrections were noted .
15 issues, I presume?
16
16
A Right.
17
17
Q Cindy McLean?
18
CAROL MUMPS
18
A No.
19
19
Q Lisa Offutt?
20 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO
20
A No.
before me this day
21 of
, A.D . 2006 .
21
Q Peter Offutt?
22
22
A No.
23
Notary Public
23
Q Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
24 My Commission expims
24
A No.
Page 54
STATE OF ILLMOES )
Page 56
I
Q Elmo Roach?
1
)ss
2
A No.
2 cotmrvopTAzewaL)
3
Q Jean Roach?
3
4
A No.
4
CERTIFICATE
5
Q Cara Rosson?
5
6
A No.
6
1, Angela M . Jones, esaRPa a Notary
7
Q Amy Sehlieksup?
7 Public duly commissioned and qualified in and for the
8
A No.
8 County of Tasewell, State of Illinois, do hereby certify
9
Q Bill Scoff?
9
that them came before me on September 13, 2006, at 416
10
A No.
10
Main Street, Suite 1400, Peoria, Illinois, the following
11
Q Cathy Stevenson?
I I named person, to wit :
12
A No.
12
CAROL TAOMPE
13
Q Diane Storey?
13
a witness, who was by me first duly sworn to testify to
14
A No.
-
14 the truth and nothing but the truth of her knowledge
15
MR . MUELLER : Okay
. Thank you very much
. 15 touching and concerning the matters in controversy in
16
I have no further questions
.
16 this cause, and that she was thereupon carefull y
17
2:20 P .M.
17 examined upon her oath and her examination reduced to
18
18 shorthand by means of stenotype and thereafter converted
19
19 to typewriting using computer-aided translation by me .
20
20
I also certify that the deposition is a
21
(Further deponent saith not .)
21 true record of the testimony given by the witness .
22
22
I further certify that I am neither
23
23 attorney or counsel for nor related to or employed by
24
24 any of the parties to the action in which this
9/13/06 Carol Trum e
Condenselt'T'f
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
PDC v. PCB
Page 57 - Page 57
Page 57
1 deposition is taken, and further that I am not a
2 relative or employee of any attonry or counsel employed
3 by the parties hereto or financially
interested in the
4 action.
5
In witness whereof, I have hereunto t y
6
hand
my m ial seal September 18, 2
7
8
10
9
,,
1 I
.
Jones, CSR-RPR
III no SR x084-003483
12
ission Expires 4/302010
13
14
15
16
17
OFFICIALSEAL
ANGELA M . JONES
18
NOTARY PUBLIC-STATE OF ILLINOIS
19
MV COMMISSION EXPIRES x30.2070
20
21
22
23
24
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
Condenselt3M
allowed (1]
33 :2
alluded [i]
44 :23
almost [q
50:24
along
111
17 :6
Alumni
[3]
11 :17
11 :23
12:7
always [2]
38 :14
53:14
Amy [2] 50
:12 54 :7
Angela p]
1 :0
56:6
57 :11
Ann [21 4:8
4 :10
answer [2]
5 :8
18:14
answered [q
11
:11
answering[l]
31 :8
answers p]
4:21
14:5
45:19
APPEARANCES [11
2 :1
applicant [4]
27 :18
40 :9
40:11
40:13
application
[91
15:16
20:3
21 :14
23 :1
28:14
29:11
45 :20
45 :24
51 :8
applied [1]
39:24
approached (1] 15 :7
appropriate [4] 5 :1
9:20
10:2
10:8
approval [i]
11 :5
approximate7:15
(1]
April
[8]
35 :9
36:1
36:5
36 :6
36:13
42:9
42 :10
42 :18
area [21 28 :4
42 :21
article
151
24 :23
25
:8
25:12 25:16
25 :19
articles [3]
24:13
24:17
25:21
arts [21 32:12 33:6
ASAp] 2 :18
associate p]
6:4
association
(1]
13:20
assume p]
5:9
ATKINS p 1 2:18
attentatively11
:4
[11
attention [1]
35:24
attorney [3]
39:11
56:23
57:2
attorney's [q
16:24
attorneys [1] 33
:4
authorship p] 23
:12
Avenue
[1]
7:24
averse
[1]
37:14
avoided 111
45:20
aware [3]
12:6
39 :6
39:9
away [2] 31 :6
33:7
ayes
[1]
28:1
bachelor's [i]
6:23
background
[1)6
:21
bank
[11
38:3
41 :24
46 :19
businessman
36:19
[2]
53 :2
businesswoman20
:14
[1]
C-h-a-1-1-a-c-o-m-b-ep]
5:15
calendarps]29:7
29:8 293:12:11
29 :22 29:24 30:4
30 :12 31 :24 32:5
33
:24
35:8
35:12
35 :17
42 :10
calls [111
10:14
292935:19:20:9 294335:11:10
:14
293543
:14:17:17
46:2
campaign [4] 8:20
8:24
13 :18
47 :11
campus [i]
6:7
Candletrec(1] 8:1
cannot p]
4 :24
37
:18
43 :20
capacity p] 18:1
Cara [2] 50 :1 54:5
carefully pi 56:16
Carol po]
1 :0
1 :0
3 :4
4:2
4:8
4:10
42:20
43:12
55:17
56 :12
case [5] 4:14
14 :9
34:13
42:3
49 :8
cases (1] 16:12
Cathy [31
18:16
50
:16
54 :11
caused[[]
11 :8
Cedaru]
7:24
Cell [2]
35 :19
35 :21
certain [2]
29:6
51 :8
Certainly
[1] 49:6
CERTIFICATE p)
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
#084-003482
- city
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7111
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30 :22
31 :4
31 :14
34 :14
50 :20
McGee
[31
13
:12
14 :4
14
:22
McLean
[6) 12 :19
12 :21 14 :9 49 :17
51 :20
53 :17
McRae [31
13 :3
14 :10
52 :2
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
failed - McRae
Index Page 3
13 :8
14 :11 14 :16
14 :20
14 :21 15 :5
15 :12
46 :8
46 :9
46 :10
46 :12 46 :15
47 :2
47 :19 49 :3
56 :14
known 111
20 :15
knows [2]
31 :18
35
:23
Knoxville
[1]
7 :23
lab p] 36 :9
laidp] 31:8
landfill [25]
8 :21
8 :23
11
:3
19 :1
19 :5
19 :7
19 :15
19 :20 20 :5 23 :12
29 :11 32
:12
33
:16
34 :2
36 :10 36 :16
37 :10 37 :20 38 :7
42 :21
43 :8
46 :19
46 :22 46 :24 47 :1
51 :20
Jones 13)
1 :0
56 :6 57 :11
Joyce [s]
16 :15
18 :24 19 :3
20 :23
20 :24
21 :22 38 :8
52 :13
Jubilee [2]
7 :19
17 :19
July [I] 11 :22
keep
[2] 32 :1
35
:22
kept[I] 30 :12
Kickapoo p] 7 :20
Kids'
[1]
24 :24
Kim
[4]
18 :4 18 :19
21 :23
52 :19
kind [3] 11 :6
29 :5
44 :15
knew
[4]
22 :12
33 :1
33 :13 33 :14
knowledge
[171
8 :23
good
[11 32 :2
Grace
[2]
43 :5
43 :7
granted [1)
37 :14
ground
[1]
4
:16
group (21
39 :14
47 :7
groups
[2]
47 :12
48 :10
Growey [3]
38 :2
38 :4
38 :5
Growth
[11
24 :24
guess [e]
10 :9
25 :6
26 :12 27 :13
30 :1
36 :7 39
:20
40 :7
hand [3] 12 :11 51
:19
57 :6
handled[i]
31 :5
handling]1] 19 :11
21 :16 21 :22
22 :2
22 :3
22 :7 22 :23
40 :22 41 :1
life p]
7
:3
liner
[11
34 :5
Lisa
[21 49 :19
list [3]
23
:10
get-togethers III
22 :18
Hoerr [31
36 :18
37 :9
given
[6]
24 :18 Hoffmeyer [2]
24 :20
25 :10
55 :7
36
:11
55 :9
56
:21
hold[I]
9 :16
goes
Ill
43 :3
home [3]
9/13/06 Carol Trum
Condenselt'T''
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
mean - professions
Index Page
4
mean [4] 14 :15 38 :20
50 :23 51 :4 54 :15 Objection p] 11 :10 P.C [q 2 :7
Petitioner (3) 1 :0
41 :9
49 :7
NAIR[1] 2 :6 objector [21
39:7 p.m[4) 1:0
51:2
2:8
55 :2
meaning [6]
14 :13
name [13]
4
:7
39 :10
51 :3
54 :17
PETITIONER'S
[p
14 :13
14 :19 14 :20
12 :20 occasion [11
38:17
5:20 8:17
35:1
page po] 3:3
3:18
46 :10
13 :14 13
:15 25
:4
Occasionally
111
24 :21
27:16 30:15
petitions 111 23:7
means [a]
4:20
29:19 33:13 49:1
122
32:5
33:24 35:8
phone po] 29:8
4 :23
7 :22
24 :15
49 :8
50 :13 52 :7
occurredp] 40 :5
37 :16
37:23 43:16
34:7
29:16
34:10 34:20
37 :4 37 :21
named [ll 56 :11
pages [3]
29 :6 35 :20
35:21 38:11
56 :18
off [2l
17:5 37:4
35:13
55:8 43:14
meant p]
29:18
names
51:10
[z]
41:13
offered
pl
20:3
pamphlets [1] 23:1
physician
43:17[t]
4613:17:2
medical [7]
11 :7
Nan [~] 38 :2
office [6]
15 :23
41
:19
Parkp] 17 :19
physicians p] 6 :9
13
:19
15 :73 18 :
naYsp] 28 :2
41
:20
41 :11
41 :20
13 :19
42 :8
Parker[3]
13 :3
Pick [2] 41 :14 41 :16
15 :7
Medicine p1
18:11
6 :5
28 :3
official
[1]
33
:12
14 :10
necessary
[1]
52
:2
place [3] 17 :20 44 :5
Medina p]
7 :20
need
34 :11
[3]
29
:9
29 :18
Offutt [31
49 :19
part
25 :22
[4]
7 :21
8 :19
55 :8
meeting
11 :23
[a]
11 :21
needed m
29 :13
Oldold
53 :19 1717 :11:16
participant
47 :8
p] 28 :13
plantplus
p]
p]
1747 :20:15
21 :1
44 :7
48
:2
21 :2
48 :5
needs [n
28 :3
pip]
once
[2] 44 :1 45 :8
participate p] 15 :8
point (5] 27 :18
32
:19
48 :14
negative p] 44 :24
one
4 :20
8 :4
participation
[11
32 :22
46 :11 46 :23
meetings [3] 11 :20 neitherp]
56 :22
[25]
12 :5
12 :11 16 :12
20 :13
politely
[1]
35 :5
It :24
25 :23
never [s]
12 :13
17 :12 21 :1 25 :17
particular (2] 25 :7
Pollution [2] 1 :0
Meginnes [2]
2
:6
20 :24
35 :22 38 :15
26 :13
27 :15 29 :4
26 :10
24 :23
2 :7
40 :5
40 :16 40 :19
29 :24 30 :1 31 :14
parties [4]
4 :12
position
[6]
9 :3
member[13] 6 :15
53 :11
33 :15 34
:17 35 :1
38 :17
56 :24 57 :3
9 :5
10 :17 39 :16
6 :18
7 :10
12 :7
newspaper [4] 24 :13
36 :7 36 :8 37 :19
parts [2] 7 :19 7 :22
44 :23
45 :13
13 :8
13:24 31:17
24:23
42:22
48 :19
46 :5
55 :12
24 :17
46
:23
ply [218
;11 28 :13 possession (3]
25
:7
24 :18
33
:5
33 :14 43 :24
[7]
32 :5
Pass [2] 29 :23
25 :9
25 :16
47 :6
48 :8 x8
:17
next
33 :
10 33
33:8
:24 35 :8
one-On-one [1]
12 :13
patient [z]
1313 :7:7
possibilities (n
members p i ] 9
:21
37 :22
20 :19
43 :15
ones p] 6 :10
13 :8
32 :14
21 :13 22 :18
nobody [q
35 :23
onto [n 9
:16
PCB
[21 1 :0
55
:3
possible
pl
32 :19
26 :23
39 :23
38
:18 39 :2
nonverbal [1]
4
:23
Ooh[1] 28 :18
Powers [I]
38 :2
41:12 45:4
PDCpz]
2:18
46 :1
nor [l] 56 :23
operational p] 46 :21
2 :19
8 :2
19 :20 Precinct
12]
7 :18
mention 111
51 :15
north
[1]
7
:24
opinion [11) 8 :20
20 :4
23
:12 30 :22
40 :19
7 :20
45 :19
notarial p]
57 :6
10 :6 10 :16 10 :23
31 :5
mentions [1]
40 :16
Precincts p] 7 :21
Messages p] 3:12
1:0
31:11
33 :20
33 :16
37
:12
33 :18
44 :14
42 :11
42 :20
Notary p]
people
[a]
9 :13
preliminaryp] 11 :6
18 :21
55 :23
56 :6
51 :7
32 :23
39 :4
Presbyterian [2]
met [81 12:1 1
34:8
43:5
19 :4
43 :7
34
:20 49 :3
notation
rs]
30 :17
opinions [61 9 :19
43 :10
43
:19 44 :7
51 :13
51 :16 52
:24
30 :20
35 :24 36 :14
9 :20
10 :2
44 :8
Present [2]
2 :17
10 :1
methane
[1)
19 :12
37 :17
37 :24
42 :18
42 :10
10 :10
10 :18
Peoria [24]
1 :0
11 :22
methodtn
26 :15
0pPonentp] 8 :17
1 :0
1 :0
2
:8
presentations p]
middle
8 :g
note
p] 27
:6 31
:23
opponents [4] 38 :20
6 :6
21 :9
p]
46.2
40:10
7:21
6:7
7:10
11 :16
11 :23 presume [11
39
:24
53 :15
might
p]
16 :12
noted
35 :17
40 :1
12 :7
20:6
opportunity
14 :1 17:22
25
:14
[2]
55 :14
p] 20
:4
21 :9
22 :16 33 :6
pretty
[1]
44 :23
mind p] 11 :8
notes [s]
27 :12 29 :9
oppose
p]
42 :21
39 :13
39 :17 41 :2
Print [2] 17 :8
17 :10
mine [4] 25 :12 25 :12
29 :18
opposed [u] 9:6
48 :6
53 :3
55 :1
prints
[1]
29 :13
17
:14
29 :16
34 :23
36
:12
30 :5
31 :1
36 :24
19 :8
21 :24 28 :17
55 :4
56 :10
privately [11
28 :9
Miss [2] 8 :19 9 :2
nothing (11
56 :14
28 :23
31 :13
3311
33 :17
31
:16
45 :4
Peorian
[1]
32 :11 problem
p]
47 :23
mission [n
47 :9
notice [3]
1 :0
47 :1
perceive
p]
39 :16 problems [1] 46 :21
Mom p] 36 :7
4 :11
23 :4
36 :10
Perhaps [z]
26 :18 procedural p] 31 :9
monthp]
17
:3
November [z] 18 :12
opposes p]
opposingp]
39 :19
31 :6
pro2 2
rz]
32 :18
months
17 :4
51 :5
period p]
7 :7
32 :22
18 :11
12]
now 11615 :13 6 :11
Opposition 8 :14
45 :2
procedures[l]
30 :23
r
35:9
9:7
11:7
11 :7
Morton
111
2 :12
8 :3
15 :8 19 :10
periods
[n
33 :2
8 :9
34 :6
39
:5
42 :11
proceedings [n 51 :2
24 :9
11 :13
14 :3 15
:14
oral
15 :15
person[31
33 :15
process pl]
most [4] 16 :12
23 :18
9:7
25:15 29:5
p]
36:10
27 :19
56
:11
29 :19
29 :13
36:3
41 :7
order 11126:3
9:8
10 :7
10
:20
Move
[n
42 :9
47 :6
49 :11
46
:24
personal
[9]
3 :12
14 :19
15 :16
25 :22
31 :7
38 :11
38 :19
organic [1]
14 :10
41 :9
moved p]
33 :7
number
[91
23 :4
otherwise [n 6
:14
14 :21
14 :16
16 :1
26 :2
45 :3
Mrs p n 4 :13 5 :13
24 :13
27 :8 34 :7
Ottawa pl
2 :4
26 :7
53 :11
produced [5] 23 :4
6 :22
8 :19
11 :13
34 :10
34 :11
36 :8 46 :18
35 :23
9
:11
personally [z] 18:20
23 :11
24 :11
15 :14
outside[lo]
24 :12
25:1
26:1
10:19
21:8
48:23
23:12
27 :21
18 :24
29 :5 51 :5
numbered[1] 27 :16
22 :15
Mueller p3] 2 :3
nursery
[n
36
:20
39 :23
38 :18 39 :2
pertain p]
1 :0
profession
(n
5
:22
40 :14
47
:3
Peter [2]49 :19 53
:21 professional [2]
3:4 11
4 :6 12
4 :9
oath [4] 4 :4
5 :5
Ozcuna-Thornton [2]
petition p]
23 :11
7 :3
29:21
55:9
13:23
56 :17
49 :21
53 :23
24 :2
professions [1] 7 :5
47:20 47:23 48:1
24:4
9/13/06 Carol Trumpe
CondenseIt'
proffering p]
28 :7
prohibition[t] 39 :22
project [q
44 :13
promoting p] 53 :14
proponents [3] 38 :20
39 :1
39:22
proposal [41
9 :15
10 :2
14 :23
15:2
proposed [sl
8:2
12 :17
15
:9
43:24
50 :10
pros
p]
44:16
provide p 1
29 :6
provided (2] 27 :7
35 :4
proximity p) 44 :9
public [131
1 :0
9 :21 10 :3
10 :10
10 :19 21 :14 26 :23
31 :10
32
:13 32 :14
32 :19 55 :23 56 :7
publicly [21 9 :2
9 :19
Purdue 11
7 :1
purpose
(31
10 :10
45 :12
51 :7
purse [1]
35 :22
pursuant [21
1 :0
4 :11
Put [41 26 :21
32 :3
32
:14
41 :14
qualified[]]
56 :7
questions [sl 4 :22
9 :23
30 :22
44 :12
54 :16
quickly[1]
4 :17
R-e-i-n-s-m-a [ q
34
:4
Radnorpl
7 :19
raise p] 43 :20
raised (I]
43 :19
Raising p]
44 :12
Ralph [2]
52 :23
52
:24
rather p l
51
:12
IM [21
36
:16 42 :20
re-election p] 8 :10
read pot 24 :5
24 :7
24 :9
27 :23
30 :20
34 :3
37 :18
37 :24
42 :18 55 :7
real p] 4 :17
really 171
14 :8
20 :9
22 :13
22 :17
31 :9
31 :21
39 :3
reason [6]
4 :14
20 :1
20 :7
43 :15
52 :7
52 :9
receive [22)
9 :20
10 :2 10 :4 10 :14
15
:14
15 :18
16 :4
18 :4 18 :10 18 :11
18
:16 21
:6
21 :13
21 :22 23 :1
23 :7
26 :22
27 :2
28 :16
recollection J4112 :9
16 :10
21 :20
23 :14
record [s]
4 :9
27 :23 30 :21 34 :3
56 :21
redistricting (1]
8 :4
reduced
p)
56 :17
reflected [4]
29 :11
35 :14
36 :23
37 :3
refresh (21
12 :9
23 :14
regard [s]
9
:3
9:10 9 :15
14 :3
22 :23
regarding p ] 1 12 :16
15 :15 21 :14 23 :1
28 :13 31 :24 37 :9
43 :7 46 :8 47 :3
50 :10
registerep]
25 :14
registered 131 33 :22
39 :7
39 :8
Reinsma [2]
34 :4
34 :15
related [21
29 :10
56 :23
relates (q
30 :17
relating p]
34 :2
relationship [q 22 :14
Republican
[I]
8 :13
request p]
24
:12
54 :7
Schmidt [2]
16 :23
22 :9
school [2]
15 :7
34 :23
Scott
12]
50 :14 54 :9
screen [1]
41 :21
seal[]] 57 :6
secretaries (q 41 :16
See [7] 6 :10
19 :11
28 :16 28 :23 37 :3
37 :15
39 :4
seeing p 1
37
:14
seem[ q 40 :8
Seghetti p l
2 :7
sending ii]
40 :1
sends
p1
10 :13
sent (31 23 :24 24 :8
40 :4
September [4] 1 :0
55 :7
56 :9
57 :6
Serve [2111 :16 28 :4
served[]]
46 :17
service [I]
18 :1
set [1]
57 :5
several [2]
11 :2
19 :5
shaking[]]
4 :23
share (1129 :24
Sharon p]
8 :18
sheet (q 55 :13
shook
[2]
12 :11
51 :19
short []( 50 :23
shorthand p]
56 :18
show
[r]
4
:9
23 :13
24 :21
25 :11
27 :10
27 :15
27 :16
37 :20
side p] 25:3
sides p) 37
:15
Sierra[$]
39 :6
39 :10 39 :17 40 :23
48 :3
Signatures p]
23 :19
signed [q
39 :10
Signs
[3128 :17
28 :18
28 :20
Simply (2)
17 :14
53 :2
sit [q
25 :15
site [21 8 :2
34 :5
Six p]
16 :8
Smith [3]
13 :5
14 :10
52 :4
social [4]
12 :1
21 :2
22 :14
22 :17
socialized 111 20 :22
socially [q
31 :22
sociology 131 6 :23
7 :1
7 :8
solicitation l][ 45 :17
solicited p)
15 :11
soliciting p] 45 :12
Someone [4]
10 :12
10 :14
22 :20
51 :15
someplace [I] 53 :3
Sometimes [2] 22 :17
44 :8
Son
[4]
17 :12
17 :18
36 :7
sorry [s] 8 :4
36 :6
38 :6
43 :20
47 :22
sounds
[t]
49 :8
south [2]
2 :11
8 :1
speak
Ill
44 :3
specialized [6] 46
:8
46 :9 46 :12 46 :15
47 :2
47 :18
specific (1)
49 :11
Spoke (2)
38 :10
44 :8
sponsored (2] 48 :3
48 :6
SS [t]
56 :1
stacks [11
41 :16
stamp
[s]
25 :3
26 :1
26 :2
26 :5
26 :6
26 :7
26 :9
26 :16
26 :21
stamped [21
25
:11
26 :15
stand (3)
16 :10
21 :19
37 :19
Start [q 34
:9
started
[q
43 :19
starts [t]
27 :18
State [6] 1 :0
4 :7
6 :24
17 :19
56 :1
56 :8
state's (q
16 :24
statement
[3]
28 :5
28 :5
28 :8
stenotype [1] 56 :18
Steven [2]
13 :5
52 :4
Stevenson
p]
18 :17
50 :]6
54 :11
Still 13) 11 :16
18 :14
42
:3
Stop [1] 51 :15
stopped [q
43 :21
Storey [2]
50 :18
54 :13
strange (1)
40 :8
Street [5)
1 :0
2 :3
2 :7
2 :11
56 :10
Student
[11
6 :4
submitted [31 25 :14
28 :7
55 :13
subscribe (1] 55 :8
SUBSCRIBED [11
55 :20
substance [1]
37
:1
substantiate [1128 :7
such (2] 4 :23 47 :12
suggestion [q 46 :23
17 :16
SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE (309) 690-3330
proffering - suggestion
Index Page 5
Rescue [6]
23 :4
23 :8
23 :15
41
:5
23 :13
48 :15
respond[i]
10 :15
Respondent [3] 1 :0
2 :12
55 :5
responsibility p]
9 :10
restaurant [1] 31 :19
RETAINED (q
3 :18
retire [1]
5 :24
retired [4]
5 :23
6 :1
6 :11
6 :13
retirement(i)
6 :3
return [1]
37 :2[
returned
[4]
36 :22
37 :2
37 :4
37 :6
Richard [1]
5 :21
Rick [31 38 :2 38 :4
38 :5
Riffle[]]
2 :7
Riggenbach
121
36 :8
46 :5
right [12]
10 :21
29
:14
31 :6
33 :1
35 :15 36 :16 37 :18
41 :18 45 :10 45 :22
46 :13 53 :16
ring p] 23 :5
River [61
23 :4
23 :7 23 :13 23 :15
41 :4 48 :15
Roach [3]
49 :23
54
:1
54 :3
Road [1]
5 :14
Rodney [2]
11 :14
12 :6
rolep] 9 :9
Rosefieldp] 7 :19
Rosson (2]
50 :1
54 :5
Royal [2]
2 :18
11 :1
RPR[11 1 :0
rules [s] 1 :0
4 :11
4 :16 40 :6 42 :6
run [17 51 :10
running [I1
8 :11
Rutherford [3] 50 :3
50 :4 50 :5
slit
55 :13
saithp] 54 :21
save [21 25 :19 25 :21
saved[1]
24 :19
saw[3]
28
:18 28 :21
relative [1]
57 :2
relatives
[I]
remember
I151
13 :15
16 :14
20
:9
22 :4
25 :9
27 :4
34
:22
38 :7
44 :4
44 :10
17
:24
11 :1
19 :8
24 :2
30 :24
42 :13
remembered [t]
52
:7
reminder [1] 32
:3
Repeat [1]
12 :20
repeated m 42 :16
rephrase p] 5 :8
reporter
[21
4 :19
30 :3
Reports
[2]
25:23
25 :23
represent[]] 30 :4
35 :19 43 :17 47 :14
received
[17]
10 :19
10 :23 13 :18 15 :21
16 :9
16 :14 16 :17
16
:22
18 :8
21 :17
22 :5
22 :8
22 :24
23 :15 25
:12
26 :20
47 :11
receiving [3] 9 :10
9 :15
10 :10
recent 111
27 :19
recently
[i]
17 :2
Recess p]
51 :2
recognize[]]
14
:7
29 :3
says
[I] 28
:2
scene [2]
53 :10
53 :14
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SIVERTSEN REPORTING SERVICE
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Exhibit 11
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPANY,
Petitioner,
PEORIA CO'-,PITY BOARD,
Respondent .
The deposition
of WILLIAM WATKINS,
a
material witness herein, called for examination
pursuant to notice and the Supreme Court Rules
as
they pertain to the taking of discovery depositions
beforeand
for
Aanathe MCounty
. Giftos,of
Peoria,CSR,
RPR,and andStateNotaryof
Illinois,Public
in
onSuiteFriday,1900,SeptemberPeoria,
Illinois,15th,
2006,commencingat 416
Mainat
theStreet,hour
of 1:00 p.m .
APPEARANCES :
GEORGE MUELLER, ESQU :R°_
Columbus Street,
Suite 2(34
Ottawa, Illinois
6135(':
and
JANAKI_ NAIR, ESQUIRE
BRIAN
J . 1-JEGINNES, ESQUIRE
E1ras, Meginnes, Riffle & Seghett_, P.C .
116 Main Street,
Suite 1900
Peoria, Illinois 61602
on behalf of the Petitioner ;
DAV :D A
. BROWN, ESQUIRE
Black, Black & Brown
101 South Main Street
Morton, Illinois 61550
on behalf of the Respondent ;
)NO
. PCB 06-1189
Page 1
PROP IA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
ALSO PRESENT
:
Royal Ccul-_,r .
I N D E
WITNESS
WILLIAM WATKINS,JR .
Exan :ina`.ion by Mr . Mueller
. . pg .
3
EXHIBITS
None markeo .
Page
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
A 671-0566 .
•
Mr. Watkinsudo you have E-mail in your
home or just in your county office?
A
last in the county ollice .
•
Do you read that E-mail on a regular basis?
A No
.
•
Do you ever check your county E-mail?
A
Yes . I do .
•
Well, we've actually had some people that
said they never check it .
A I won't sac that .
•
What is your educational background?
A Well . I went to college. high school .
•
Where did you go to college??
A Grand Vieo in Des Moines. loo a .
•
Did you graduate?
A No .
•
Now, I understand that you are a member of
the Greater Peoria Sports Hall of Fame, is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Tell me a little bit about your athletic
background then .
A DO \0U want me to take too hours.'
Pace 6
•
I understand if you're in the Hall of Fame,
you probably could
. If you could give us the short
version .
A Well . I played for Manual, went downstate,
played in college
. Years ago, they had a CBA team .
I played with that team
. There was a baseball
team
. negro league, and played with them guys for a
little while .
•
Are you involved in youth sports these
days?
A Yes, I am .
•
In what capacity, sir?
A Well, I'm the founder of the Hershey
Hawkins Basketball, one of the founders of the
Moonlight Basketball League .
•
Do you do any coaching in connection with
any of those basketball leagues?
A
Well, sometime if the coaches don't show
up . I go out there and try to do my pan, try to
participate and help as much as I can
.
•
Are you employed at the present time?
A I work for Brewers Distributing,
consulting .
•
What are your main job duties in that
Pages 3 to 6
PEOPIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNT": BOARD
PCB06-184
a ale
4
WILLIAM WATKINS .JR .
a material witness herein . being duls scorn
. gas
examined and tcstilied as follows :
FXAMINAIION
10
BY MR . MLILI .LGR :
Q Would you state your name, please?
A
William Watkins . .lr .
Q Let the record show this is the discovery
deposition of William Watkins, Jr ., taken pursuant
to notice, by agreement of parties .
1 1
Have you ever had your deposition taken
13
before?
A No .
13
1
Q Let me go through a couple simple ground
14
1 `
rules that will make life easier for us . First of
'_5
16
all, everything that I say and that you say is
16
1 7
being taken down by a court reporter and will be
17
18
transcribed .
16
19
What that means is that only one of us can
19
20 talk at a time
. So I will wait for you to finish
20
21 your answers and, hopefully, you'll wait for me to
22
finish my questions and we won't talk over each
22
2 3 other.
23
2
Also, she can't take down gestures or other
24
4
i nomerhal communications . So sse need to keep
cyervthing in terms of spoken words . Is that all
clear?
A Uh-huh .
4
Q One of the other rules is that answers like
5
b uh-huh and huh-uh sometimes are hard to get down in
6
the transcript
. So it usually works better to do
7
8 yes and no .
E
9
A Yes and no . oka' .
9
10
Q If I ask you a question, I'm going to
1 0
'_ 1
assume that you understood it and intended the
12
answer if you don't have me rephrase it, is that
12
fair?
13
14 A Fair .
14
15 Q Mr
. N'atkins, you understand that you arc
15
1F
under oath?
16
1 A Yes .
17
1
Q What is your address, sir?
18
1 9
A 125 Southwest Jefferson .
15
20 Q flow long have you lived at that address?
20
A About ION ears .
21
22 Q Do you have a cell phone, sir?
22
A No .
Q What is your home telephone number?
24
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page
Q Did you have an opposition in 2004?
A No .
•
I take it you're the Democratic party?
A As I knots of .
•
Mr
. Watkins, did you attend the siting
hearings that were held on this land expansion?
A What teas the question?
•
Did you attend the siting hearings?
A At the ITOO I lalI?
•
Yes.
A Yes .
•
How many of those did you attend?
A I think about a couple of them on sit oft n
until I had to go out there and he tyith the count\
hoard
.
•
Well, I'm talking about before that last
county board meeting. How many of the hearings did
you come to?
A Probably either one or to o .
•
Did you happen to remember anybody who was
testifying on the days that you were there?
A Mr . &hsards
.
•
That pins it down a little bit . Anybody
else's testimony that you can recall being present
Page 10
for?
A The lady named Blumenshine .
•
For hearings that you didn't attend, were
you given transcripts of those?
A
I can't recall that.
•
So would it be fair to say that you did not
read any hearing transcripts?
A Well . cou knots . there was so much stuffto
read I could hate and I might not .
•
As you sit here now, Mr. Watkins, do you
specifically remember reading any hearing
transcripts?
A
Well . that's kind othard because I read so
much stuff.
•
Well, I know you got a lot of mail, but
what I'm talking about is every hearing that we
had
everything that was said by everybody at that
hearing was typed up, and that's what's called a
transcript . So you can, like, read it
question-answer, and it's just as if you were
there .
Do you remember doing that with regard to
any of the hearings?
A Offhand. I really don't think so .
Pages 7 to 10
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEOPIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
company?
2
A Well, I do some marketing . When I can make
a sale . I make a sale .
Q
Now, how long have you worked with that
4
company?
A About 24 . 25 years .
6
8
Q What do they distribute?
A Anheuser-Busch products, Bud, Bud Light .
E
9 Michelob, Michelob Light .
9
1
Q Actually, I'm familiar with their products .
10
11
Now, Mr . Watkins, are you married, sir?
11
A Yes. I am .
12
Q
Is your wife employed outside the home?
A
Secretary of State Office .
Q How long has she worked for the Secretary
,.
l 6 of State Office?
16
1 -) A Probably about three and a half
. four
17
1
years
.
18
19 Q
Do you have any adult children that live in 19
20 the Peoria area?
2C
_ 1 A I've got two .
21
22
Q
Where do they work?
22
A Well, one's a consultant . one works at
23
24 Caterpillar .
24
11
Page 8
Q The one that's a consultant for who?
A I think it's W hits Oaks .
2
Q For who?
A White Oaks .
4
Q What do they do?
5
FA
Ihet usualh deal tt ith a lot of date
6
people .
-11
q
Q Do you have any immediate family members
8
who work for any of the hospitals or doctors in the
9
community?
10
A Well . I hate a big familt . As ol" noo . no .
11
Q You're a member of the Peoria County Board?
A
Yes
.
Q How long have you been on the board?
14
_5 A
About 10 'ears .
15
1 r
Q Are you running for reelection in the fall
1 6
17 or are you in the middle of the term?
17
16 A I most likely run in 2008
.
18
19
Q
So you're in the middle of the term right
19
20 now?
20
21 A Yes .
2'_
22 Q
Has anyone announced yet to be a candidate
2~
23
against you in 2008?
23
29
A Not as I knots of.
2
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
eaa- _1
2 ;1
time went . When did you get those orders as you
21 recall?
22
A In the executive meeting .
23
Q Was that before the hearings started or
24 after they were already going?
Page 12
1
A I don't remember that .
2
Q Were there people that came up to you to
3 talk to you about their opinions regarding the
4 landfill expansion?
A Yes .
7
6
Q Do you remember the names of any of those
people that approached you to talk about it?
0
A I tell pou what
. this is probabh one of
9 the most controvers> thing that I et er deal with in
1 0 all m> 'cars of Peoria I tell you a lot olpeople
11 that I know by name . a lot of people I know h>
1 2 their lace on the positis e side that I know and the
13 negatis c side that I know . There were so man\
11 dillerent names that asked me ahout it . if I ' oted
1
s es or no .
16 Q
Well, one of the board members that we
1' deposed said that among the people that approached
19 him the sentiment was running about 90 percent
19 opposed and 10 percent in favor .
20
Would that be about right with what you
21 heard?
A I would say mine was about 00 percent
negati'e and 411 percent positise .
24 Q
The same board member that said it was
running 90 to 10 said he kind of kept a tally of
that because he used that information, that
information helped him make his decision .
Now, do you -- did you understand that it
was appropriate to take the views that were
expressed to you into account?
A No . I abvavs like to wait and hew'
cs crvhod\ else's opinion belbre I make up am
regardless of who it is .
Q
But when you finally made up your decision,
was it your understanding that you could take into
account all of those opinions from people that had
expressed them to you?
A Give me that question again .
Q I on said you like to wait until you've
heard everybody's opinion before you make up your
mind, right?
A Right .
Q Does that mean then that you took all --
20 that you thought it was appropriate to take all of
21
those opinions into account?
22
A Well . I listened. but I didn't make up tm
2 3 mind . As I was sa\ i ng . as 11w as really making up
29 ms mind
. I rcalls didn't make up my mind until I
Fage 14
started asking questions . That's when I made up my
mind .
•
Who were you asking questions to?
A When I was out to the ]TOO Hall and I had a
chance to ask some questions that I wanted to know
about what I feel that I wanted to know after
hearing everybody else talk, but I had certain
questions in there that I asked that I wanted to
know and they couldn't give me the answers that I
wanted to hear .
•
Who were the people that you asked those
questions to?
A I can't remember those names .
•
I mean, was it staff people or was that
witnesses?
A I think it was most likely probably
witnesses . Did you guys have some lawyers there?
•
I was one of them .
A Okay .
•
When you said that you asked questions and
you didn't get the answers you wanted to hear,
that's how you made up your mind, I'm trying to
figure out who it is that didn't give you the
answers you wanted to hear?
Faoe
Pages 11 to 14
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v
.
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Q
reports
the county
A
Q
Did
recommendation
The county staff prepared two different
on the application and the hearings .
you get copies of those reports from
staff"
II the' had them . most likel> I did .
Do you remember as you sit here what the
of the county staff was?
1
4
f;
A I I mN memop's correct . I think the'
c
approved it .
9
Q
When the hearings were going on, what was
10
your
could
understanding of what kind of contact you
have with the public and your constituents
2
about the expansion?
A Well . as time went . we _Lot orders from the
14
attorne% that we could not listen to nobody .
13
Q That you could not listen to anybody or
16
that you couldn't talk to anybody?
~-
A
Q
Well . I sax listen or talk .
Okay . Do you remember when -- you said as 1 9
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Ca JC
A Well . I tell wou m' concern was--
2
MR . BROWN : I'm going to object here
'_ or intercede . We're starting to get into his
5
4
decision-making process which I know \our question
didn't necessarih an toward that
. but I think he's
6 going into how he made his decision .
6
MR . MtTl i .ER : You cannot . Mr. Brown .
1
tell .\our tv itness what to say. You can object to
8
9
an improper question .
9
1 ^
Mr. Watkins volunteered that he didn't get
10
11 the answers he \%anted to hear . M\ question is "t ho
11
2 did he get those answers from . I think that's a
12
13 lair question .
'_3
14
MR . BROWN : I understand .
14
.5 BY MR . MUELLER :
15
E:
Q Do you think it's a fair question,
16
Mr . Watkins?
-
A Well_ what I'm trcing to sa' is I don't
9 remember the person that I Bras talking to . but I
I
20 think it was a law'er or something like that that 20
21 teas with you gu's . 'I he question I was asking they
21
22 couldn't realh git e me the answer that I wanted to
22
23 hear.
23
2
Q
No before the county -- somebody from the
! 24
Page 16,
county, you said an attorney, told you not to be
2 listening to people from the public, had you been
2
3 talking to members of the public about this?
3
4
A No . not really .
4
Q Have you ever gotten any contributions from
6 any doctors, hospitals or medical societies?
6
7
A No . I wish I had .
5
Q
Have you or to your knowledge any members
8
9 of your family ever been treated by a Dr. McLean, a 9
1 0 Dr. Vidas, a Dr . Zwicky, a Dr . Parker McRae,
1 Dr. Smith, Dr. McCee or Dr. Scott? Any of those
ring a bell?
12
5
A WellL they don't ring a hell . but my mother
13
i 4 and dad passed . loth of them not lit ing . I can't
14
remember all the doctors that thev had_ but those 1 5
16 names are not familiar to me at all .
16
22
18
Q How about a Dr. Lorenz?
1
6 A No .
19
1 9
Q Did you get a lot of phone calls about this 1 9
2'0 expansion?
20
21 A Yes .
21
Q Do you remember any of the specific people 2
23 you got phone calls from?
2 3
24
A I think Blumenshine . Edwards .
24
Q How about a Kim Converse?
A If l did
. I can't place the name .
•
How about Cathy Stevenson? Can you place
her as making a call to you?
A No .
•
Do you know Joyce Blumenshine?
A Just on order -- when the_\ started comin _u
to the count\ hoard meetings .
•
Other than that, have you ever had any
dealings with her outside the county board?
A No .
•
Were there any of these people that were
involved in this process in the way of citizens and
opponents that you ever had any dealings with
outside of your job as a county board member?
A Well . I know Dace Snell real well .
•
Dave who?
A Dav e Snel I
. used to he the sports director
lot Channel 31 .
•
Did he express to you an opinion about the
proposed expansion?
A Yes .
•
What was the opinion that he had?
A Vote Ibr it .
Page 16
MR . MUELLER : Let me take about a
three- or four-minute break, and we're going to try
to wrap this up very quickly .
(Recess in proceedings .)
BY MR . MUELLER :
•
While this whole process was going on, did
anybody ever come to your house to talk to you
about your vote or give you anything?
A Yes .
•
Who's that?
A Blumenshine and Edwards .
•
They get around .
A Yes, they do . They really do .
•
Do you know Edwards outside of the county
board stuff?
A No . The only thing I know about him I used
to see him come to city council and talk on TV
.
That's the only thing I know about him
. He comes
to the county board meetings all the time
.
•
IOU
live in the Twin Towers there?
A Yes .
•
Is there a homeowner's association that
meets on a regular basis?
A Yes .
Pages 15 to 18
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Pages 19 to 22
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
10
Q Do you remember going to a meeting of that
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Q
A
Jeff Akeson?
What was that one?
Jeff Akeson?
No .
Tessie Bucklar or Tom Bucklar?
No .
Kim Converse or Ted Converse?
No .
Ralph Converse or Jane Converse?
No .
homeowner's association about a week or two before
the final vote in this case?
A I didn't go because it l had 'rent thev
NN
ould ha' e tried to sxv av ms vote . I hat's tt hs I
didn't go .
-
Q
A
So you didn't go to a meeting
I stated awav from them . I knot a hat then
were Irving to do . Ihe' see me x% alk in . they Ir\
to talk . I kept on going .
1 Q
Who's they?
11
Q Bill Clark?
12 A Well . there ttas a Dr. Crane . I think he--
12
A No .
13 1 think he was leading the tight . I think he was
13 Q
Joyce Harant?
4 on the hoard down there .
14
A Joyce Harant . is she a doctor?
1 Q Anybody else?
15 Q
My question is do you know her?
16 A He didn't sac nothing to me . but I knoe he
16
A Yes .
1
was leading the charge . As a matter of tact . I
Q How do you know her?
15 wouldn't esen let m\ wilt go .
16
A I think I met her on a campaign trail . She
1 9 Q Now, did any county board members ever call 19
was running for something and she was sitting at
2 0 you to talk to you about your vote on this thing?
20
the same table I was sitting at .
- A No .
21 Q Did she ever talk to you about this case?
Q Did you talk to any of them?
2 2' A No .
2S A No . Iheshere ten .'Crysect en.
\e
.
22 Q How about Mary Harkrader? Did she ever
2 4 Q Was there a homeowner's association meeting 24
talk to you?
2
Page 20
1
G'
A
aqe
that you did go to before the final vote, not the
Yes .
- one right before but an earlier one where you (lid
2 Q
Mary Harkrader did talk to you?
3
get some grief about this?
3 A Yes .
4 A I did not go to none of them that they had .
4
Q When did she talk to you?
5 As a matter of fact . when the association meets
5
A I don't remember, but I know she told me
F, sometimes--since I've been there about two 'ears .
6
not to vote for it .
I think I'% c been to about two or three meetings .
7 Q
She's someone whose opinion you rely?
B I but is about it . I just don't realk haN c the
B
9
A
Well . I'm the type of person the way my mom
9 time. I'm a rer' bus' . young old man .
and dad raised me is listen to everybody .
1(i
Q Mr . Watkins, is there anything else that
10 Q
Just take it all into account then in
11
you want to add before we close this up?
11
making up your final mind?
~2 A Anything I want to add?
12 A Yes .
1 3 Q
l es .
13 Q That's what you did here?
14 A No .
14
A Right .
15, Q Let me run through a list of names here
. I
15
Q Do you know Lisa Offutt or Peter Offutt?
_ 6 believe we've covered a few, but make sure that you 16 A No .
don't
-- whether or not you know any
anyof
these
17
Q How about John or Cindy McLean?
1 B people
.
-
18 A No .
19
How about Beth Akeson?
19 Q Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
20 A No .
20
A No .
Q John McLean?
21
Q Elmo Roach or Jean Roach?
A No .
22 A No .
Q
Cindy McLean?
23
Q Cara Rosson?
24
A No .
24 A No .
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
_'a7=
1
Q
Mayvis Young?
A No
.
•
Diane Storey?
4
A No .
•
Barb Van Auken?
6
A Yeah . I know Barb .
•
She's a city council member, right?
A Right .
•
Did she talk to you about this case?
A No
.
11
Q Does anybody -- have any of the county
'_
board members called you about these depositions
1 ± this week?
14
A No .
1
Q No one contacted you to kind of give you
1
b
any idea what to expect?
17
A What was it? Yesterday . I ran into--at
1
the county board meeting . I ran into Phil Salzer .
19 He said, Have they talked to you? He said, Get
2 0 ready because they're getting ready to drill you .
2-
Q Is that all he said?
A Yes .
•
Was it that bad today?
A Well
. ]'in the type of person, hey, I just
Page 24
1
listen .
2
Q
That's all I've got actually . So I've got
3
nothing more to drill you with . Thank you
.
4
A
I think everybody was real fair, and I
5
tried to be fair myself to the best of my ability .
6
7
8
(Further deponent saith not .)
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Pages 23 to 24
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
STATE OF ILLINOIS
SS
COUNTY OF PEORIA
Aana N . Siftos, CSR,
Pin, and Notary
Public in and for the
County of Peoria, State o f
Illinois, do hereby certify that heret_o`ore, t„
on Friday,
September 'Stn,
2006, personally
appeared
before me a_ 416 Main Street_, Suite 1400, Peoria,
llinois :
WILLIAM WATKINS, JIL,., a material witness
herein .
I further certify that the said witness was
by me first auiy sworn to testify - to
toe truth, the
whole truth and nothing but `_he truth in the cause
aforesaid ; that the testimony then given by said
witness was reported stenographica_ly by me in the
presence of said witness and afterwards reduced tc
typewriting, and the foregoing is a true and correct
transcript of the testimony so giver, by said witness
as aforesaid
.
I further certify that the signature of the
witness was not waived .
I further certify that I am, not counsel for
nor in any way related to any of the parties to this
suit, nor am I in any way interested in the outcome
thereof .
In testimony where A, _ hereunto set my
hand and affix my notarial seal on this day, Tuesday,
September 26, 2006 .
I1. 1 r/ _L
I
ucl
Aana M . Gi`_tos, Certified Shorthand Reporter
;State of Illinois License #084-003571)
My commission expires 07/24/07 .
OFFICIAL SEAL
NOTARY
MY C,IMISSION
PUBLIC
AANA M
.
EXPIRES
STATE
GIFTOS
OF0(/24/07
It LNOPS
Page 26
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
I
A
Aana 1 :11 26:3.22
ability 24 :5
about4:21 5 :22 7 :6
7 :17 8 :15 9 :13 .16
10 :16 11 :13 12 :3
12 :7J4 .18.20.22
14 :6 16
:3 .17
.19
17 :1 .3 .20 18 :1,8
18 :16,18 19
:120
20 :3,6 .7 .8 .19
21 :21 .23 22 :17
23 :9,12
account 13 :6,12 ;21
22 :10
actually 5 :9 7:10
24:2
add 20 :11 .12
address 4 :18 .20
adult 7 :19
affix 26 :17
aforesaid 25 :9,11
26 :9,12
after 11 :24 14 :6
afterwards 26
:10
again 13 :14 25 :10
against 8 :23
ago 6:5
agreement 3 :10
Akeson 20 :19 21 :1
21 :3
already 11 :24
always 13 :7
among 12 :17
Anheuser-Busch
7:8
announced 8 :22
answer 4 :12 15 :22
answers 321 4 :5
14 :9.21,24 15 :11
15:12
anybody 9 :20 .23
11 :16.17 18:7
19:15 23 :11
anyone 8 :22
anything 18 :8
20:10.12
APPEARANCES
1 :15
appeared 26:4
application 11 :2
approached 12 :7
12 :17
appropriate 13 :5
13 :20
approved 11 :9
area 7 :20
around 18:12
asked 12:14 14 :8
B
background 5 :12
5 :23
bad 23 :23
Barb 23 :5.6
baseball 6 :6
basis
5
:5 18 :23
basketball 6:14.15
6:17
before 1
:1 .11 3 :12
9:16 11 :23 13:8
13 :16 15 :24 19 :2
20:1 .2.11 25 :1 .20
26:5
behalf
1 :20.24
being 3 :2,17 9:24
believe 20 :16
bell 16 :12,13
best 24 :5
Beth 20:19
better 4 :7
big 8 :11
Bill 2 1 :11
bit 5 :22 9 :23
Black
1 :22.22
Blumenshine 10:2
16 :24 17 :6 18 :11
board
1 :2.6
8:12.14
9 :15,17 12 :16.24
17:8,10,15 18 :15
18:19 19 :14,19
call
17:4 19 :19
called 1 :9 10 :18
23
:12
calls 16 :19.23
came
12:2
campaign 21 :18
candidate 8 :22
capacity 6 :12
Cara 22 :23
case 19:3 21 :21
23 :9
Caterpillar 7 :24
Cathy 17:3
cause 26 :9
CBA 6:5
cell 4 :22
certain 14:7
Certified 26:22
certify 25 :8 26 :4.8
26:13,14
chance 14 :5
Channel 17 :19
charge 19:17
check 5 :7,10 25 :12
children 7 :19
Chris 22 :19
Cindy 20:23 22 :17
citizens 17 :13
city 18:17 23
:7
Clark 21 :11
clear 4 :3
close 20 :11
coaches 6 :18
coaching
6 :16
college 5:13,14 6 :5
Columbus 1 :16
come 9 :18 18 :7,17
comes 18 :18
coming 17:7
commencing 1 :12
commission 25 :23
26 :23
communications
4:1
community 8 :10
company 1 :3 7:1,5
25 :3
complete 25 :10
concern 15 :1
connection 6
:16
consisting 25 :9
constituents 11 : 12
consultant 7:23 8 :1
consulting 6:23
contact 11 :11
contacted
23 :15
contributions
16:5
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page 27
CONTROL 1 :2
25 :2
controversy 12 :9
Converse 17
:1 21 :7
21 :7.9.9
copies 11
: 3)
correct 5 :20 11 :8
25 :10 26:11
corrections 25 :15
Coulter 2
:3
council 18 :17 23 :7
counsel 26 :14
county 1
:6,11 5 :3 .4
5 :7 8 :12 9 :14.17
11 :1,4,7 15 :24
16:1 17 :8 .10.15
18:14.19 19:19
23 :11,18 25 :6
26:2.3
couple 3 :14 9 :13
court 1 :10 3
:17
covered 20 :16
Crane 19 :12
CSR 1 :11 26:3
D
D 2:5
dad 16 :14 22 :9
Dave 17:16,17.18
DAVID 1 :22
day 25 :20 26 :17
days 6 :10 9 :21
deal 8:6 12 :9
dealings 17 :10,14
decision 13 :3,10
15 :6
decision-making
15 :4
Democratic 9:3
deponent 24:8
deposed 12 :17
deposition 1 :9 3
:9
3 :11 25 :8,11
PEOR : .A DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
14
:11 .20
23:12.18 25:2.6
asking 14:1,3 15 :21 both 16 :14
association 18 :22
19 :2,24 20
:5
break 18 :2
Brewers 6 :22
assume 4 :11
athletic
5 :22
BRIAN 1 :18
Brown 1 :22.22
attend 9:5,8,12
15:2,7,14
10:3
Bucklar 21 :5,5
attorney 11 :15 16:1
Bud
7
:8.8
Auken 23 :5
away 19:8
busy 20:9
C
I
depositions
1 :10
23 :12
Des 5 :15
Diane 23 :3
different
11 :1
12 :14
director 17:18
discovery 1
:10 3 :8
DISPOSAL 1 :3
25 :3
distribute 7 :7
Distributing 6 :22
doctor 21
:14
doctors 8 :9 16 :6,15
doing 10:22
down 3 :1724 4:6
9:23 19 :14
downstate 6:4
Dr 16 :9.10,10.10
16:11,11,11,17
19:12
drill 23
:20 24 :3
drug 8:6
duly 3 :2 26:8
duties 6:24
E
E 2:5
each 3 :22
earlier 20:2
easier 3 :15
educational
5 :12
Edwards 9:22
16 :24 18 :11 .14
either 9 :19
Elias 1 :19
Elmo 22:21
else's 9 :24 13 :8
employed 6:21 7 :13
errata 25 :13
ESQUIRE 1 :16.18
1 :18.22
even 19 :18
ever3 :11 5 :7 12 :9
16 :5,9 17 :9.14
18 :7 19 :19 21 :21
21 :23
every 10 :16
everybody 10 :17
13:8 14:7 22:9
24 :4
everybody's 13 :16
everything 3 :16 4 :2
10 :17
examination 1 :9
2 :8 3:4
examined 3 :3
executive 11 :22
EXHIBITS
2 :10
expansion 9:6
11 :13 12 :4 16 :20
17
:21
expect 23 :16
expires 25 :23 26 :23
express 17 :20
expressed 13 :6.13
E-mail 5 :2,5 .7
F
face 12 :12
fact 19 :17 20 :5
fair 4 :13 .14 10:6
15 :13 .16 24:4.5
fall 8:16
Fame 5 :19 6 :1
familiar 7 :10 16:16
family 8
:8.11
16:9
far
13
:23
favor 12 :19
feel
14 :6
few 20 :16
fight 19:13
figure 14 :23
final 19:3 20 :1
22 :11
finally 13 :10
finish 3 :20.22
first
3
:15 26 :8
follows 3 :3
foregoing 25 :8
26:11
founder 6:13
founders 6
:14
four 7 :17
four-minute 18:2
Friday 1 :12 26:4
from 11 :3 .14 13 :12
15 :12.24 16 .2,5
16 :23 19 :8
further 24 :8 26 :8
26 : 13.14
G
GEORGE 1 :16
gestures 3 :24
getting
23 :20
Giftos 1 :11 26:3,22
give
6 :2 13 :14 14 :9
14 :23 15 :22 18 :8
23 :15
given 10:4 25 :8.11
26 :9,11
go 3:14 5:14 6:19
9 :14 15 :5 19 :4,6.7
19:18 20:1
.4
going 4:10 11 :10.24
15 :2.6 18 :2.6
19 :1
19:10
gotten 16 :5
graduate 5 :16
Grand 5 :15
Greater 5 :19
grief 20 :3
ground 3 :14
guys 6 :7 14 :17
15 :21
H
half7 :17
Hall 5 :196
:1 9 :9
14 :4
hand 26
:17
happen 9:20
Harant 21 :13,14
hard 4 :6 10 :13
Harkrader22
.2
21 :23
Hawkins 6 :14
hear 13 :7 14 :10.21
14
:24 15 :11 .23
heard 12 :21 13 :16
hearing 10 :7.11
.16
10 :18 14:7
hearings
9:6.8,17
10 :3 .23 11 :2,10
11 :23
held
9:6
help 6:20
helped 13 :3
her 17 :4,10 21 :15
21 :17.18
heretofore 26 :4
hereunto 26:17
Hershey 6 :13
hey 23:24
high 5 :13
him 12:18 13 :3
18 :16.17,18
home 4 :24 5 :3 7:13
homeowner's
18 :22 19 :2,24
hopefully 3 :21
hospitals 8 :9 16 :6
hour 1 :12
hours 5 :24
house 18 :7
huh-uh 4 :6
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page 28
26:1 .4.5,22
immediate 8 :8
improper 15 :9
inclusive 25
:9
information 13 :2,3
intended 4 :11
intercede 15 :3
interested 26:15
involved 6:9 17 :13
Iowa 5 :15
ITOO 9:9 14:4
J 1 :18
JANAKI 1 :18
Jane 21 :9
Jean 22 :21
Jeff 21 :1 .3
Jefferson 4:19
job 6 :24 17 :15
John 20:21 22 :17
Joyce 17 :6 21 :13
21 :14
Jr 1 :9 3:1,7.9 25:17
26:6
just
5 :3,4 10 :20
17:7 20 :8 22 :10
23 :24
K
keep
4 :1
kept 13 :1 19 :10
Kim 17:1 21 :7
kind 10:13 11 :11
13 :1 23 :15
know 8:24 9:4 10:8
10 :15 12 :11,11,12
12 :13 14 :5,6,9
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY
V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
15 :4 17 :6,16
I
18 :14,16,18 19 :8
idea 23
:16
19 :16 20:17 21 :15
Illinois 1 :1 .11 .12
21 :1722:5,15
1 :17,20.23 25 :1
23 :6
I
knowledge 16 :8
L
lady
10:2
land 9:6
landfill 12 :4
last 9:16
lawyer 15 :20
lawyers 14 :17
leading 19:13 .17
league 6:7.15
leagues 6:17
let 3 :8,14 18 :1
19 :18 20 :15
License 26:22
life 3 :15
Light 7 :8
.9
like4:5 10 :19 13 :7
13 :15 15 :20
likely 8 :18 11 :5
14:16
Lisa 22:15
list 20:15
listen 11 :15.16.18
22 :9 24 :1
listened 13 :22
listening 16:2
little 5 :22 6 :8 9 :23
live 7 :19 18:20
lived 4 :20
living 16 :14
long 4:20 7 :4.15
8
:14
Lorenz 16 :17
lot 8 :6 10 :15 12 :10
12 :11 16:19
M
M 1 :11 26:322
made 13 :10 14 :1,22
15 :6
mail 10 :15
main 1 :12,19,23
6 :24 26:5
12:13
marked 2 :11
marketing 7:2
married 7 :11
Mary 21 :23 22 :2
material 1 :9 32
26:6
matter 19:17 20 :5
Mayvis 23 :1
McGee 16:11
McLean 16:9 20 :21
20 :23 22 :17
McRae 16:10
mean 13 :19 14 :14
means 3 :19
medical
16 :6
meeting 9:17 11 :22
19:1,7.24 23 :18
meetings 17
:8
18:19 20 :7
meets 18 :23 20:5
Meginnes 1 :18,19
member 5 :18 8
:12
12:24 17 :15 23 :7
members 8 :8 12 :16
16:3.8 19
:19
23 :12
memory's 11 :8
met 21 :18
Michelob 7:9.9
middle 8 :17,19
might 10:9
mind
13 :17,2324
13 :24 14 :2.22
22:11
mine 12 :22
Moines 5 :15
mom 22 :8
Moonlight 6 :15
more 24 :3
Morton
1 :23
most 8:18 11 :5 12:9
14:16
mother 16 :13
much 6 :20 10 :8,14
Mueller 1
:16 2 :8
3 :5 15 :7,15 18 :1 .5
myself24:5
N
N 2:5
NAIR 1 :18
name
3:6
12 :11
17 :2
named 10:2
names 12 :6.14
14 :13 16 :16 20 :15
necessarily 15 :5
need 4:1
negative 12 :13 .23
negro 6 :7
never
5 :10
nobody 11 :15
none2 :11 20:4
nonverbal 4 :1
notarial
26 :17
Notary 1 :11 25 :22
26:3 .20
noted 25 :16
nothing 19:16 24
:3
26:9
notice 1 :10 3 :10
number 424
0
Oaks 8 :2 .4
oath 4 :16 25 :10
object 15 :2.8
Offhand 10 :24
office 5 :3,4 7:14.16
Offutt 22 :15 .15
okay4 :9 11 :19
14 :19
old 20:9
one 3:19 4:5 6:14
7 :23 8:1 9:19
12 :8 .16 14 :18
20 :2.2 21 :2 23 :15
25 :12
one's 7 :23
only 3 :19 18 :16,18
opinion 13 :8.16
17 :20.23 22 :7
opinions 12 :3
13 :12.21
opponents 17 :14
opposed 12 :19
opposition 9 :1
order 17:7
orders 11 :14.20
other 3 :23.24 4 :5
17 :9
Ottawa 1 :17
out 6 :19 9
:14 14:4
14 :23
outcome 26 :15
outside 7
:13 17 :10
17 :15 18 :14
over 3 :22
own 9:13
Ozuna-Thornton
22 :19
P
pages 25 :9
Parker 16
:10
part 6 :19
participate 6 :20
parties 3 :10 26:15
party 9 :3
WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page 29
passed 16 :14
PCB 1 :5 25:5
people 5 :9 8
:7 12 :2
12 :7,10.11,17
13 :12 14 :11
.14
16 :2,22 17 :12
20 :18
Peoria 1 :3.6.1 1 .12
1 :20 5:19 7:20
8:12 12 :10 25 :3,6
26:2.3,5
percent 12:18,19
12 :22 .23
person 15 :19 22
:8
2 3 :24
personally 26:4
pertain 1 :10
Peter
22 :15
Petitioner
1 :4.20
25 :4
pg 2
:8
Phil 23 :18
phone 4 :22 16:19
16 :23
pins 9:23
place 17:2.3 25 :9
played 6 :4.5 .6,7
please
3
:6 25 :12
POLLUTION 1 :1
25:1
positive 12 :12 .23
prepared 11 :I
presence 26 :10
present 2 :2 6 :21
9
:24
probably
6 :2 7:17
9:19 12 :8 14 :16
proceedings 18:4
process 15 :4 17
:13
18 :6
products 7 :8,10
proposed 17:21
public 1 :11 11 :12
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
make 3 :15 7 :2,3
13 :3.8,16 22 .24
20 :16 25 :10
making 13 :23 17 :4
22:11
man 20:9
Manual 6:4
many 9:12,17
I
16:2,3 25 :22 26 :3
26:20
pursuant 1 :10 3 :9
P.C 1 :19
p.m 1 :1 3
Q
question 4:10 9 :7
13 :14 15 :4,9,11
15 :13 .16,2121 :15
questions 3
:22 14 :1
14:3.5.8.12.20
question-answer
10:20
quickly 18 :3
R
raised 22 :9
Ralph 21 :9
ran 23 :17.18
read 5 :5 10 :7.9.13
10:19 25 :8
reading 10 :11
ready 23 :20.20
real 17 :16 24:4
really 10 :24 13 :23
13 :24 15 :22 16:4
18 :13 20:8
recall 9 :24 10 :5
11 :21
Recess 18 :4
recommendation
11 :7
record 3 :8
reduced 26:10
reelection 8 :16
regard 10:22
regarding 12 :3
regardless 13 :9
regular 5 :5 18 :23
related 26 :15
rely 22:7
remember 9 :20
10 :11 22 11 :6,19
12
:1
.6 14
:13
15 :19 16 :15 .22
19:1 22 :5
rephrase 4 :12
reported 26 :10
reporter 3 :17 26 :22
reports 11 :2,3
Respondent 1 :7.24
25
:7
Riffle 1 :19
right 8 :19 12 :20
13 :17,18 20 :2
22 :14 23
:7.8
ring 16:12.13
Roach 22 :21 .21
Rosson 22 :23
Royal 2 :3
RPR 1 :11 26:3
rules 1 :10 3:15 4:5
run 8:18 20 :15
running 8:16 12 :18
13
:121 :19
S
saith 24:8
sale 7 :3,3
Salzer
23 :18
same 12:24 21 :20
25 :10
saying 13 :23
school 5 :13
Scott 16 :11
seal 26 :17
Secretary 7 :14,15
secretive
19:23
see 18 :17 19:9
Seghetti 1 :19
sentiment 12 :18
September 1 :12
25:9 26 :4,18
set 26:17
sheet(s) 25 :14
short 6:2
Shorthand 26 :22
show 3 :8 6 :18
side 12:12.13
signature 26:13
simple 3 :14
since 20 :6
sir 4 :18.22 6 :12
7 :11
sit 10:10 11 :6
siting
9:5
.8
sitting 21 :19 .20
Smith 16:11
Snell 17:16,18
societies 16 :6
some 5 :9 7:2 14:5
14 :17 20 :3
somebody 15 :24
someone 22:7
something 15 :20
21 :19
sometime 6 :18
sometimes 4:6 20 :6
South 1 :23
Southwest 4
:19
specific 16 :22
specifically 10 :11
spoken 4 :2
sports 5 :19 6 :9
17:18
SS 26:1
staff 11 :1,4,7 14:14
started 11 :23 14:1
17:7
starting 15 :3
state 1 :11 3 :6 7:14
7:16 26:1,3,22
stayed 19 :8
stenographically
26:10
Stevenson 17
:3
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WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page 30
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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WILLIAM WATKINS
9-15-2006
Page 31
PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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Exhibit 12
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BOARD
PEORIA DISPOSAL
COMPAN':,
etitione-,
-vs-
)NO . PCB 06-164
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD,
Respondent .
)
The deposition of DAVID T
. WILLIAMS, SENIOR,
a material witness herein, called for examination
pursuant to notice and the Supreme Court Rules as
they pertain to the taking of discovery depositions
before Aana M . Giftos, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public in
and for the County of Peoria, and State of Illinois,
on Friday, September '_5th, 2006, at 4
:6 Main Street,
Suite 1400, Peoria, Illinois, commencing at the hour
of 9:00 a.m .
APPEARANCES :
GEORGE MUUELLER, ESQUIRE
528 Columbus Street, Suite 204
Ottawa, Illinois 61350
and
JANAKI NAIR, ESQUIRE
BRIAN J . MEGINNES, ESQUIRE
Eiias, Meainnes, Rittle & Seghetti, P .C .
416 Main Street, Suite 1400
Peoria, Illinois 61602
o.. behalf of the Petitioner ;
DAVID A . BROWN, ESQUIRE
Black, Black & Brown
101 South Main Street
Morton, Illinois b155U
on behalf of the Respondent ;
Page 1
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
ALSO PRESENT :
Royal CouiLer, PLC ;
I N D E i
WITNESS
DAVE WILLIAMS
Examina_icri by
Mueller 3
EXHIBITS
Williams Deposition
Exhibit No .
.
.
P9 .
Page 2
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA
COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
DAVID I . ti II .I .IAMS
. SR-
a material \ \ mes s herein . being dots sworn
. was
c\amined and testifled us lid low s :
EXAMINA I ION
5
13Y MR . Mt'I :I .I .ER :
•
State your full name, please.
A Datid 1 . \'illiams . Senior .
•
Let the record show this is the discovery
deposition of David Williams, Senior, taken
1
pursuant to notice, in accordance with rules and by
agreement of the parties .
12
Mr . Williams, have you ever had your
1 3 deposition taken before in any case for any reason?
14
A Yes . I has e .
1 5
Q
So you're familiar with the general ground
16 rules and procedures?
A What I can
ememberr.
es .
_
Q T
oatas
t
old
-
- 9 not talk over each other because the court reporter 1 9
20 is taking everything down
. Do you understand that?
2 0
4
2'_
2
3
4
6
R
13
11
13
16
1 ?
don't you tell us what adult children you have
'- 9 living in the county and where they are employed?
A I have my son David T . Williams . Senior.
20
He lives in Hanna City and is employed at -- this
21
is going to he bad
. It's the floral wholesale
22
group of Peoria Heights
. I can't think of the name .
2 3
2 4
He wholesales all the flowers to all the flower
24
._f
shops
. I think its I)oran.
•
Any other children?
A I hate a daughter that Iit es near Chicago .
A Yes .
•
Can you tell us about those?
A It was a tenant on 1501 South Western
A\enue . .A child was . like. I helicte three \ears
old . maybe lour. The\ did seine testing . the
health department Lot ahold of us . and w e came dow n
and we repainted the paint . lead remo\al and it was
oka\ .
Pale 6
It was an older house I bought
. The lads
lived there her entire life
. It really wasn't
that -- onh aware of lead paint at that point
.
•
Did you have the lead paint removed from
that apartment?
A Yes . It was a house, yes .
•
From that house . Do you know
where the
residue or the removed material was disposed of?
•
So there was actually nothing to dispose
or
A No . no
. Just that paint had been there
since the lad'
--
•
Do you have an understanding by the way
of
where lead based materials would have to he
disposed of if
there was a sufficient quantity to
Pages 3 to 6
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
A Yes . sir .
21
Q Also, nodding and shaking the head cannot
_
be taken down by the reporter. So we need to keep 2 .3
our answers
verbal . Is that clear?
24
A
Page 4
Correct .
1
Q
A
Mr
. Williams, where do you Use?
1913 West Montana Street
. Peoria . Illinois,
3
61605 .
4
Q
How long have you lived at that address?
5
A
Two and a half years .
6
Q
A
What was your address before that?
2617 West Lincoln Avenue . that's Peoria .
R
Loves Park . Illinois .
Q You are retired, sir?
.A
Retired from Caterpillar . ses .
Q When did you retire?
F A 1996 .
9
Q Have you worked at any employment since
10
that time other than on the counts board?
11 A Yes
. I'm a landow net . I hat e rental units .
12
Q
How many--approximately, how many rental
1 3 units --
14 .A Pill\ units .
~ 5 Q
Have you ever had any allegations from any
16
of your tenants with regard to lead paint issues??
61605 .
A It was sanded down --
and then I think. Sam
Q
A
Q
A
Q
Peoria
A
Q
How long did you live at that address?
Three )ears . I believe .
Sir, are you married?
Yes .
Do you have any adult children living in
County?
Yes .
Are any of them employed
-- actually, why
10
11
12
13
1-1
15
C'hurchhill from the Health Department came hack --
to the original wood
. and then the) said you have
to put a certain cotering hack oscr it . It was a
windowsill is what the location was .
So the*\ give us two or three things .
application to put on . We did one of them . [hen
the) came hack . and they approved it . It wasn't a
real big area .
DAVID
WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Pale
Pages 7 to 10
PEON IA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
1
dispose?
Q You mean as like some insurance company
4
A I'm now learning about that . yes .
Q What have you learned?
A I learned that you have to have special
2
--
4
type of situation?
A Yes .
Q Did she ever work in the health services
6
licensed people . licensed from the state where they
do abatement . they'll do disposal . That's part of
industry?
6
A Yes . L ised to he a nurse .
14
your cost .
Q Where was she a nurse at?
8
A In Salem . Illinois. she was--helped
9 deliver babies .
10
Q Did she ever work in the healthcare
-
1 industry in Peoria County?
12
A Not that I'm aware ol . no .
--- Q When were you first elected to the county
14
board?
Q Where do you think they dispose of that
kind of material?
A I imagine. I'm guessing--
Q In a hazardous wasteland?
A Yes, that would he .
Q So from your own personal experience, you
recognize that there is sometimes a need for these
11 facilities?
A 1992 .
1 6
A Yes .
16
Q Can you give us the approximate boundaries
17
Q Your rental units, Mr . Williams, have you 1 of your district?
18
ever had any asbestos issues?
-?'
A
I
.aramic Street . Washington Street . Western
19
A No .
19
Atenue . I'ce got a little hit on this side of
20
Q Do you have a cell phone, sir?
20 Western . cast side . It now goes tip to St . Man
21
A Yes .
21 C'emeten in West Peoria . ()riginallc1
it was Martin
22 Q Do you use it on a regular basis?
22 Luther King was the eutoIi. So when we did the
23
A Yes .
22
map . we picked up that area up there .
24 Q What is that cell phone number?
24 Q When did you become a county hoard
1A
Page
657-9057 .
1
Page 10
chairman?
2 Q 309 area code?
A
2000 .
3
A Yes .
Q When does your current term expire?
4 Q
Before Peoria Disposal Company -- well, 4
A Nor ember ot this Near .
5
let's back up .
5
Q Are you running for reelection?
6
7
What is your highest level of education,
sir?
A No .
Q Why not?
8 A GED .
6
A I'm looking limtard to retirement .
9 Q
What was your last title at Caterpillar
u
Q
Y'ou've had enough?
10
before you retired?
10
A I wouldn't Say it that way . I hare enjoyed
11 A
I was a forklift operator .
1 1 e' en thing about it .
12 Q
You are a member of the Peoria County
12 Q Are you seeking any other political office
13
Board?
13 by way of appointment at this time?
14 A Correct .
14
A No .
15 Q
By the way, is your wife also retired from 15
Q Have you expressed to anyone interest in
16 active employment?
16 being appointed to any position in government after
17 A Yes .
17
your term on the county board ends?
18 Q
When did she retire?
1 E
A No .
19 A It was about four years ago .
19 Q If you were to get an appointment for a
20 Q
Where was she employed prior to her
20
full-time office, would that salary impact whatever
21
retirement?
2- pension rights you've accrued from your service on
22 A It was a health claims department out there
2
the board?
23
by the mall . I don't know what the name of it is
.
2
A Yes .
24 They process health claims .
24
Q Even with that, you're not interested in
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
,e
Q Is there a reason why you chose to withhold
that information?
A N'ell . we was loll NO U know . to limit
conversation among ourselves and to the citi/ens .
just to listen and not make a commit rent or get
into -- add on to the discussion .
Q You were told to listen, though?
A Yes .
Q Was that listening to everybody or only
listen to the public?
A Listen to every hods . We don't hat e a
choice whether he culls ou call . We't e got to --
Nou know. tte're going to take the call . We'll tell
youthesamething . \\c can't discuss this . I
can't tell ou hors I'm going to vote because I
haven't heard the case t et
Q
But if let's say -- do you know Chris
Coulter?
A I met him once . I think . 'es
Q Let's say if Chris Coulter had called you
back in March of this year to give you some what he
thought was inside information about something, you
would have listened to him? You wouldn't have told
him you're not supposed to be talking to me?
Page 14
A I would have told him if he's adding
information to the stuff that's not on the record I
can't listen to that . I f he wants to give me his
opinion that he thinks it's a good thing to do .
then that's different .
Generic statement is one thing . If he's
to ing to add information to that's not part of the
record. then I would have to cut him off. I can't
worry about anything else . I can't listen to this .
Q Did you actually ever have to apply that
kind of rule to any of the communications that you
received while this hearing was going on?
A Yes . During election . I can't -- husband
and wile from that area . I can't think of the name.
but the' would call and they would tell me that
unless you say yes I'm not going to vote for you
for state senator .
I told them I can't make a commitment until
I hear all the facts . This is what's going on . I
said . I can't listen to any more other than what's
on the record .
I hen I got one question when I was a
candidate for the Peoria County Women Democrats .
Me and Mr . Koehler were there . One of the
Pages 11 to 14
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
-age -11
any employment?
A
Q
No .
Before Peoria Disposal Company ever filed
2
4
E
i ts application for siting approval, did Royal
Coulter come to you to discuss the project?
A Yes . he did .
Q Do you remember approximately when that
happened?
6
A I'm guessing several years ago . It seems
9
1 C
like it's been a long, a long time ago . I'm
0
1 '_ guessing several years .
Q Did you indicate to him that you would
12
support his project?
A I indicated that I thought it was a good
1S
project. yes .
15
--6
Q Did you actually take a site tour?
A Yes, I did .
16
i
Q So you've been out there?
18
A Yes .
=0
1
Q
Do you remember approximately when that 20
21
was?
21
THE WITNESS : Maybe six weeks after we
22
talked I think you invited me out there .
27
MR . COULTER
: I would say that it was
Page
24
prohahl2 2005 .
1
2 13Y MR . MUELLER :
2
Q Would it be correct that Mr . Coulter
actually met with county representatives as early
as 2003 to discuss the feasibility of seeking a
5
6
landfill expansion?
6
A
I belie% c that is correct
. yes .
7
8
Q At that time, you indicated that you
E
9 thought it was a good project and that you would
9
0 support it?
10
A I thought it was a good project . I never
'_ 1
12
commit my vote before that . I nct er said I w ould
12
13
Note yes or nay
.
1 3
14
Q What was your impression upon visiting the
14
~5 facility?
15
6
A I was impressed . l3asicallN"all the
1_ 6
plaques on the wall from I I'I'A . know ledge of how time _'
whole thing worked . the-\ took their tinme and
1 E
_ + answered questions .
19
2 ~5 Q
Did you ever communicate to any other board 20
21
member during the hearing process the fact that you
_ 2 had been at the facility and were impressed with
2 3 the operation as you witnessed it?
23
24 A No
.
24
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
12
13
19
15
received a lot of letters . E-mails and phone calls
16 from lots of different people while this hearing
and deciding process was going on .
1 E
Would it be fair to say that you also
1 ~+ received a lot of communications from people?
20
A
I didn't receive a lot of I .-mails . I think
21 a lot of them went to the office at the courthouse .
2
1
I6
7
16
19
2C
22
23
24
15 that, would you have instructed someone to contact
16 her and say stop it?
1 ,
A I would gi\ e it to the auorne\s and lot
1 F them he aware of what's going on .
19 Q Did Joyce Blumenshine ever send you any
2 0 letters?
'
21
A I don't think I got am thing from tos cc .
22 1 never use the computer up there
. I didn't have
22
Q
Did you get anything from Heart of Illinois
23 Internet until I started running for election for
23 Sierra Club?
State Senator . I don't have a home phone . The
24
A
I think I got sometl
Page 16
only thing I have is my cell phone which does have
voice mail by the way .
2
•
I'm looking at an E-mail dated April 6th,
3
2006, from Joyce Blumenshine, subject is Health
4
Safety and Welfare, and it's to a whole bunch of
people . Dwilliamsr) peoriacounty .org is the first
6
addressee .
I'm going to take a wild guess that that's
probably you?
A I would agree .
• This is actually in the materials furnished
by the county to us. If I can just show it to you .
I don't think we need to mark this one .
Did you ever see that E-mail during the
hearing process?
A No . I don't think I did . If it came to
the office . I never opened an E-mail in the office .
I don't know why I've got a computer there .
• The reason I'm asking is because you said 19
that if people gave you statements of opinion and 20
generic statements you listened to them, but if
21
they tried to add fact, you'd cut them off and say
22
you have to do that on the record.
23
A I would end the discussion saying I can't
24
-
)in the Sierra
Pane -
talk about this .
•
In Ms . Blumenshine's E-mail, she has a
first--it's actually addressed, Dear Chairman
Williams and Members of the Peoria County Board,
and then she's got a first paragraph . Then it goes
on with, Fact, there's a paragraph that starts with
the word Fact, a second paragraph that starts with
the word Fact, and it looks to me like she's trying
to add material to the record .
My question was, were you aware that Joyce
Blumenshine was doing that?
Pnge 10;
Club . Tom 1`,dwards stopped h) one night about
10 :110 o'clock at night .
•
He stopped by everybody's house .
A In ms neck of the woods
. it's not a good
area to stop h) . I told hint to lock the door as he
left .
•
So it's your testimony that you didn't
really open any of the E-mails?
A No .
•
The letters that everybody got and that
seemed to have been sent to everybody you would
have gotten some of those?
A Yeah .
•
How many letters would you guess that you
got?
A For awhile
. I got two or three a day Ior
t w, and a hall weeks .
•
That would be back in that March-April
period?
A Belbre the first vote . ycall .
•
Before the April 6th vote?
A Correct .
•
Do you remember any particular individuals
who were among the group that sent you those
Pages 15 to 18
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Paae 15
- questions from the audience was . Are you going to
1
2 support this expansion or not? I told them I can't
3 comment on that .
4
Q I on were defeated in a primary this past
4
5 spring, weren't you?
5
r A Pretty soundly . 'cs .
E
11
Q
A
Q
A
Q
So you did attempt to run for reelection?
Not Ibr count\ board . no .
F
What were you running for'!
u
State Senator .
I'm sorry . So you were moving onward and
upward?
12
A No
. I didn't open that L-mail at the
A
Q
Supposedh .
We know that county board members generally
14
courthouse .
Q If you had been aware that she was doing
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
letters?
A It was Tom and Joyce . and I got some from
3
the Sierra Club
. a couple individuals
.
Q Was Kim Converse one of them?
A I believe -- I think that's the name I was
6 thinking about, the husband and wife
.
8
Q Cathy Stevenson, she was a big letter
writer. Did you get any from her?
A That name doesn't ring a bell .
' 0 Q
Y'ou knew that Kim Converse was one of the
point people for the Peoria Families Against Toxic
12 Waste Group?
13
A I knew her from him and her calling me on
14 the cell phone . Later on, that's where --
11
Q They called you on the phone to discuss
16 this?
1 7
A They called me to try to get me to tell
1 a then that I'm going to vote against it . I told
19 then I can't do that . I haven't heard the facts .
2 0 They said, If you don't tell me no now . I'm not
21 going to vote for you . I said . You do what you've
22 got to do .
23
Q
Who was it that said that to you?
2 4
A
I think it was one of the Converses, the
Page 2'
husband . whatever his name is .
2
Q Ted?
A
led . I guess that's the name . I'm on the
4 campaign trail talking on the
p hone . s o I didn't
pay too --
Q When was that primary election?
A
It was I cbruar
--
no . March . It "as
6 March . second Tuesdat in March .
1
9
Q So these calls from Ted Converse would have
0 been after the application was filed but before the
11 second Tuesday in March?
.2
A Correct .
1 3
Q Did anybody else call you and tell you that
if you didn't commit your vote to oppose that they
would vote against you?
A No . They acre about the onlc ones . Nohod_t
17 else got into the election process like the' did .
16
Q How many total phone calls would you say
1 9 you received from opponents and members of
20 opposition groups during the hearing process?
21
A Before the first vote or between --
22
Q Atanytime .
23
A I'm guessing a dozen nmay he .
24
Q
You said you got about two or three letters
a day about for a period of about two or three
weeks?
Pages 19 to 22
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
_
4
P
A
Q
Seemed like that .
Outside of that busy period before the
first vote, did you also get letters?
A No . It lust kind of tapered oil! I think
the last thing I got "as from Tom Edwards .
Q Tom Edwards came to your house to hand out
9
a flyer?
1 2
A Yes .
11 Q
Did anybody else come to your house to talk
12
to you or give you anything?
13 A
Q
There was a gal from Itartont iIle . Cindy
--
Cindy Ozuna-Thornton
-5 A I can't remember the last name .
-6 Q
A
Q
Cindy McLean?
I can see her face .
Just out of curiosity, if you can describe
1 9 her to us .
20
A She's . like, hack from the '60s . the lots
2 _
child, the hair . all that .
22
MR . BROWN : Otilhe record .
23
(Discussion otfthe record .)
MR . Ml FLIER:
Let's go back on the
Page 22
1
record .
2
13Y MR . MUELLER :
3
Q We had a little discussion off the record
4
and everyone contributed, and apparently your
recollection's been refreshed .
6
P
Was it Cindy Hermann that came to your
door?
A I believe that's true . tes .
9
Q Did you have other face-to-face
10
conversations with anybody regarding the proposal?
m_ 1
A
No
. 'I'hat was hasicallt it .
12
Q Do you know a Melva Hunter?
13 A I don't think so .
14
(Williams Ixhihit No . 29 marked)
13 [IN' MR . MUELLER
1 6
Q I'm going to show you a copy of an E-mail
1 from a Melva Hunter dated May 3rd apparently at
18
1 :19 p.m .
11 9
Did you ever receive this E-mail?
20
A No . I don't believe I did .
21
Q Does this refresh your recollection of who
22
Melva Hunter is?
2
A No. it doesn't .
24 Q Did you have a conversation with her before
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Paa-
Ie
Pages 23 to 26
PEOPIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
'-
4
6
9
10
1
1.
12
1 3
1
10
1 6
1 9
the May 3rd meeting about your position on the
landfill expansion?
A I'm guessing Mr . Brown .
Q Okay .
A That would he try guess .
Q How did those or when did you first receive
those colored sheets?
6
A I think we got them a couple days before
the meeting . They always bring stuff to the
9
meeting in case a board member doesn't bring their
stuff to the meeting .
-t
Q Where and how did you get them before the
11 meeting?
12
A Probably in the mail
. I probably picked
13 mine up at the office
. Most of it's mailed out to
141 the board members .
1
Q Did you go to the county board office on
1 6
pretty much a daily basis during this period?
A Well . she says I did . So I prohahlm did .
Q Do you remember haying the conversation,
Mr
. Williams?
A No .
Q Okay .
A But I don't doubt I did .
Q If you don't remember having the
conversation, you don't remember what, if anything,
you would have said, right?
A
Q
Yes .
Now, did you have any yard signs opposed to
the landfill in Your district?
A
Q
No .
Were you aware of yard signs in other parts
of Peoria County?
-
A No .
1 8
Q How many times a week would you be up
1 9 there?
A Yes .
Q How many different yard signs would you say
that you saw?
2 -
A Once .
2 -_
21
Q Did anybody bring those pink, yellow and
A Most of them on Moss Am crate . Oh . probably
22 hall 'a dozen ran ehe .
purple sheets to your home?
A I believe
-- yeah, probably Patrick because
we have most of my meetings at my house
. I don't
Page G6
1
meet too much at the courthouse
.
Q Y on have what most meetings at your house?
A Me and Patrick and the counh
4
administrators meet at my house
.
Q Do you ever meet with other county board
Q How many do you remember seeing on Moss
24
Avenue?
8
P age 24
A At least liver or lime up there .
Q Right in a row?
A Prettc close hy .
Q Did you see any billboards?
A Yes . I did . I'm th inc to think of
where I
6 seen it at . though . It wasn't in nr district
. It
6 members at sour house?
8
might hame been on Washington Street .
A Y eah . occasionallc . a s far as ham ing a
Q On April 6th, the county board met as a
? drink or m o . y es .
9
committee of the whole to discuss findings of fact .
Q Did you ever meet with any of the county
1 0
Do you recall being at that meeting?
10 board members at your house regarding this
A Yes .
11 expansion application?
1 _
Q At that meeting, there were some colored
1
A No .
1 3 sheets, the purple, pink and yellow sheets handed
.i
Q Did you have any input into the contents of
14 out or in the possession of board members?
. 4 the first and second staff report?
15 A Correct .
1
A No .
16 Q
Did you have any input into writing those
16
Q Do you know who the main author of the
1 up?
_7 first and second staff reports were?
10 A No .
A Again
. I would say Mr . Brown . I le's our
19 Q
Do you know who the person was that was the
lead .
21
main author of those sheets?
Q On May 3rd, the county board met again,
A Well
. I would imagine it could he
21 correct?
22
Mr. Brown. Patrick and the staff
22
A Yes .
2 3
Q Do you know for certain that it was --
z
Q There were some proposed findings of fact
24
which individual was the main author?
24
apparently file stamped April 27th from the
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
17
1 _
12
23
_
16
1 7
18
Q Passing them out to the whole board on
19 May 3rd, right?
20
A Yes .
20
MR . 13 R(3WN : If'.ou can answer the
question . go ahead .
1NF WITNESS
: I'm assuming thev would
2 --
Q
What do you mean Allen wanted to do it that
21 he in the Count\ clerk's office. that's where all
22 way?
22 the minuses go.
23
A I think he had his own wa' he wanted to do
23 11) MR . Ml'IEL1 .ER :
2' things . I mean . he didn't confide in me. I Could
Q So whenever minutes exist, they would have
18
19
20
see that he did .
1
Q Well, in terms of the county board members
3 interacting with the staff about how to get stuff
3
5
1 done, you're telling me that Allen Mayer kind of
4
took the lead in that department?
6
A No . I'm saving Allen had his thing that he
6
7 wanted added to the staff report or change to it .
8 Just like 1 im had something he wanted to attend as
8
9 could he agreeable to amend at that meeting . So I
9
think he just -- he didn't conter with me on it .
1 C
1 let's pal it that way .
~_
12 Q
Do you know who on the staff Allen Mayer
13 was working with to get all of that stuff put
14 together?
15 A I would guess Patrick and -- would he the
15
16 first contact .
16
1 7 Q Other than guessing, do you know?
1
18 A Normal process is the joint administration .
18
1? Count' hoard members go to the county
1 9
administrator .
Q So he's kind of the liaison between the
county board and everything else that happens with
_-
23 county employees?
23
29
A Correct .
24
Pass 29
Page
been in the county clerk's office?
A Yes . .An> attachments to the minutes should
he there. too .
•
Were you involved in anyway, shape or form
in preparing what's called the record on appeal
which is the documents submitted by the county to
the Pollution Control Board
A No .
•
Would you agree with the statement that if
minutes of the May 3rd meeting aren't in the
county clerk's office they don't exist?
A No . I wouldn't agree with that either .
•
Well, where else would we look?
A I think that's the county clerk's job to
find out where they're at
.
•
Do you remember ever seeing minutes from
the May meeting?
A Not really because I don't pay much
attention to the minutes
. I read them real quick .
•
A routine part of county business as I
understand it is that when you folks start a
meeting one of the first things that happens is
approval of the last meeting?
A 'that's correct
.
Pages 27 to
30
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Pase
clerk's office that Mr . Mayer indicated was being
Q He meaning Patrick l' rich?
considered by the county board on May 3rd .
A Right . that's correct .
How did you get into possession of those?
Q It's your testimony that you didn't see any
A lie brought them at the meeting .
proposed final findings before May 3rd?
Q Who brought them to the meeting?
A
Correct
.
A Allen did .
C Q They were handed out to you at the meeting
Q He's the one that brought all the final
by Allen Mayer?
findings of fact --
A Bs Allen and hs 'Iim . I le had some changes .
A The part he wanted he brought . I wasn't
9
too . he wanted to make .
aware that it even existed . I think Tim brought
10
Q Were there minutes recorded and approved of
some . too . Riggenbach .
11
the April 6th meeting?
Q
Now, we are talking about May, not
12 A
Yes .
April 6th .
13
Q
Do you know where those are because we've
A Yes . I got them at the meeting . So I'm
1 ; never seen them?
assuming Allen's the one -- it was his torte . I Ic
15 A Well . it should he part otlhe count
wanted to do this this way . I le was passing them
out to the committee . the hoard .
16 clerk's records, and then we had -- he took records
of the whole meeting . Mr . 13 row n .
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Pages 31 to 34
PEORIA
DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
Page 3 1
I
1 Q
Do you remember of your own as you sit here
1
A Yes .
2
ever approving minutes for either the
Q Who did you get that from?
3
April 6th meeting or the May 3rd meeting?
A Cindy Hermann, is that what we conic up
4
A I don't remember . but you asked me that
4
with?
Q
Yes .
about amni' hoard minutes
. too .
Is that the only thing of value that
6 Q Now, let me run through some names and
6
anybody gave you during this entire process?
organizations.
A
Q
Yes . My wife was not happy
.
Have you ever been a member of or attended
Are you a member of either the Universalist
an activity sponsored by the Heart of Illinois
Sierra Club?
8
Unitarian Church or St . Thomas Church?
A No .
11 A No .
Q Have you ever been to a meeting at either
12
Q Do you know Joyce Blumenshine"
.
~ _
one of those churches?
13
A Yes
.
13 A
No .
14
Q Did you know her before these hearings
14 Q
Ever been a patient at Methodist Hospital?
1
started?
13 A No .
16
A
No .
16
Q Ever been a patient at St . Francis?
1 7
Q On how many occasions during the hearing
1
A Yes .
8
process would you say that she called you or
1 8 Q How long ago?
'1
a
otherwise talked to you personally about the
1 9
A Fortunately, many, many years ago, probably
20 hearings and the application?
20
2-
15 years ago . That's where Caterpillar's insurance
A Once the process started . I didn't talk to
is at
.
2 2 her at all .
22
23
2
Q Have you ever received any campaign
Q Did she attempt to contact you?
A Yes . The onh time at the count' board
contributions or anything else of value from any
medical society or organization, any medical clinic
Page 34
or any hospital?
=age 32
meeting . Tom . her
. the whole chain .
2 Q Have you ever attended a meeting of the
A
No .
3 Sierra Club?
Q Do you know Rodney Lorenz?
4
F
A No .
Q Have you ever attended a meeting of the
A No .
Q Do you know John McLean?
A Sounds Familiar, b ut . n o. I'm going to sax
.
Q They're doctors . So I take it you've never
Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste??
A No .
8 Q
Have you ever attended a meeting of the
8
been treated by either one of them?
9
Citizens for Our Environment?
A No .
10 A No .
10
Q Have you ever been treated by or do you
1 1 Q Have you ever been a member or attended a 11
know Dr. Vidas or Dr. Zwicky?
12
meeting of River Rescue?
12 A No .
13 A No .
13
Q Have you ever been treated by or do you
14 Q
Have you ever gotten anything of value,
1 4 know Dr. Parker McRae or Dr . Steven Smith?
1 >
contributions or anything else from any of the
1 5 A No .
16 organizations I've just mentioned?
1 61 Q How about Dr. McGee?
1 ?
A No .
A No .
16 Q
Have you ever made any contributions to any 18 Q
Have any of your immediate family members
10
of those organizations?
1 9 ever been treated by any of the doctors I've just
20 A
No .
20 mentioned?
21 Q
Have you ever been a member of any other
21
A I'm guessing --I don't recall . My guess
22 environmental organizations?
22
would he no .
23 A No .
23 Q If you don't know, you don't know .
24 Q
Did you get a flower after your final vote?
24 A I don't know .
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
2aae 30
2
•
Would the same be true for Dr . Akeson and
Dr. Steven Smith?
A Correct . it X+ould he true .
•
You've never been treated by them or your
family members, to your knowledge?
A Right .
•
Do you know Beth Akeson?
A No .
a
Q Do you know Jeff Akeson?
10 A No .
12
•
Do you know Tessie Bucklar or Tom Bucklar?
A No .
Q You've already told us about Kim and Ted
0
C onverse. Do you know Ralph or Jane Converse?
A
I think in a meeting Jane made some
16 presentation or something . I don't kno'r her to
know her .
•
Was that related to the landfill?
A No . It was some presentation the\ were
20 going to do . some marketing .
2'_ Q Has her marketing company ever done any
22 work for the county?
23
A I believe the% has e . a small amount . but I
24 believe the\ have .
Page 36
•
Would they have gotten that pursuant to bid
or is that something you would have selected?
A I think it falls on the professional
4 services . It reasdt a whole lot . I'm trying to
think what it was about . Something to do when \"e
7
6 put the ad in the paper about the count\ hoard . the
lour-page ad .
S
Q Do you remember how long ago that was?
y
A Well . we do it once a 'ear. So I'm
1 0 guessing sis or eight months ago .
11
Q Were you the person responsible for
1 selecting her company?
A No .
•
Who would have done that?
A Patrick . Patrick l [rich . the count\
administrator.
•
Do you know Bill Cook?
15
A No .
19 Q Other than as a county board member, do you
20 know Tom Edwards?
A No
.
22 Q Do you know Mary Harkrader?
23 A Yes .
2 4 Q How do you know her?
Paae 3
1
A Well . she used to he on the county board
2 and used to be our county clerk .
3
Q Do you consider her a friend?
4
A I don't know her that well .
5
Q Did she ever directly communicate her
6 opinion about the landfill expansion to you?
7
A Not to me, she won't .
B
Q
Do you know Lisa Offutt or Peter Offutt?
9
A No .
10 Q Do you know Chris Ozuna-Thornton?
11 A
No .
12 Q Do you know Elmo Roach or Jean Roach?
13
A Elmo . is that the guy from the park
14 district that does the trees? Then I don't know
15 him .
16 Q
Do you know Cara Rosson?
17
A No .
18 Q
Do you know Amy Schlicksup?
19 A
No .
2 0 Q
Do you know Cathy Stevenson?
21 A
No .
22 Q
Do you know Diane Storey?
23 A No .
24
Q Do you know Mayvis Young?
Page 3F,
A Yes .
•
How do you know Mayvis?
3
A She came to the county board meeting with
4 Tom .
•
Other than that, do you know her?
A No .
•
I'm sure you know Barb Y' an Auken?
A Yes .
•
Do you have a social relationship with her
or any members of her family?
A
No
.
•
Do you know Joyce Harant?
A Yes .
11 Q
How do you know her?
A Well . she runs the . I can't think of it,
16 Planned Parenthood . that's what it is . She ran for
I O Congress one time .
1 B
Q Is the Planned Parenthood an agency of the
1 `+ county government or is that independent?
20
A It's independent .
21
Q
Do you consider her a friend?
22
A No .
2 3 Q Do you know Cindy McLean?
24
A Sounds familiar, but I'm guessing no
6
P
9
10
Pages 35 to 38
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
4
6
16
20
21
22
23
24
_Pa j, 3v
•
It would be Kim Converse's mother .
A No .
MR . MUELLER : Let's take about a
two-minute break . We may be done .
(Recess in proceedings .)
MR . MUELLER : We have a couple more .
B Y MR . MUELLER :
• Mr. Williams, did you ever call any other
county board members to try to influence their
votes on this expansion?
A No .
•
Originally, Phil Salzer was on the hearing
subcommittee?
A Correct.
•
Did you remove him?
A He asked to be removed which I was not
happy about .
•
When did he come to you with that request?
A After we were getting ready to approve for
the county board approval -- it had been in the
hopper. like, a couple of weeks -- he came to me I
think two days before us voting on it . He wanted
to be taken off. I reminded him that was his
district . You need to be on i
1 counts hoard would Note on that . W e was wider the
impression like he was the) would Note and they
would make a recommendation to the full counts
hoard for their consideration .
That means the whole county hoard Noted
.
Actual' . we Noted thrice on the same issue . I
don't know how it got all marks so to speak
.
•
With regard to your adoption of findings of
fact on May 3rd, was it your understanding that
you were just readopting what you had already
approved on April 6th?
A Yes .
•
Normally in county government stuff, staff
recommendations tend to be approved by the county
board the majority of the time?
A In general . yes . I would agree
.
•
In this case, the staff recommendation was
for approval with conditions?
A Correct .
17
16
1
18
ly
2 0 Q The county board did not approve that
2
recommendation?
22
A Correct
.
23
Q What was unique about this particular case
24 that caused the board to disregard the
Page 40
1
Q
Who did you put on to replace him?
i
A
I'm almost sure it had to he a Democrat .
So I'm guessing p.ldon
may he was -- I'd haye to look
3
4 at the records . but I tried to keep it
4
proportionally Repuhlican-Democrat . you know .
E
Q Originally, it was our understanding that
7
the hearing subcommittee was going to make a vote
or take their own vote and make recommendation to
the board?
u
1 0
A That's what I understood . yos .
7 0
Q The hearing subcommittee never did vote?
I -
3
A Not as a s uhcontmittee . n o .
12
1
Q Is there a reason why that didn't happen?
14
A ['in not sure %% h\ that didn't happen . All
1 4
12 of
a sudden -- if you was there
. the thing just got
1
16 a life of its own and the whole thing -- the whole
16
1 7 hoard voted versus just the committee.
17
18
Q Well, I'm talking about just the
18
1 9 subcommittee, that seven-person group?
19
20
A Right . The whole hoard Noted at the first
20
21 one instead of just the seven .
21
22 Q Who made the decision at that hearing the
22
23 subcommittee should not take a vote?
24
A
We were told h' 13i1 I Atkins that the hole
24
Page 42
recommendation of its own staff?
A Well . I think the hoard is -traditionall>
in zoning cases . all along the staff has
recommended this and the hoard has voted a
different vcav . It's just a recommendation
. I
think that's how the hoard members look at it .
It's nice that you give III your
processional opinion . When the vote comes down .
it's my vote to cast .
• When's the last time you can remember
before this that the county board went against
staff recommendation?
A Well . when was the last time we got sued?
Let me see . Probably within die last Near . some
zoning cases we went against stall recommendation .
We had a cell tower thing
. We went against them .
'A e had a lawsuit out of that .
•
So it's kind of the moral of the story
every time you go against your staff recommendation
you get sued",
A No . Sometimes we should listen better I'm
thinking .
MR . Mt1[1 .1 .1(R : I don't have an' further
questions . Thank you .
Pages 39 to 42
PEG-IA DISPOSAL COMPANY PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
1
(Further deponent sarth not
.)
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
PaC
Page 43
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
STATE 0° __L=y.OTS
SS
COUNTY OF PEORIA
Aana M . Giftos, CSR, APR, and Notary
Public in and for t ::hhe County of Peoria, State
Ill nois, no
hereby certify that heretofore, to-w-
on Friday, September 11th, 2006, personally appeared
before
me at
416 Main Street, Suite 1400, Peor a,
Illinois :
DAVIS T . WILLIAMS, S-P_ a material witness
herein .
I further certify that the said witness was
by me
first
duly sworn to testify to the truth, the
whose truth and nothing but the truth in the cause
aforesaid ; that the testimony then given by said
witness was reported s_enographically by me -:n the
presence of said witness
and afterwards reduced to
typewriting, and the foregoing is a true and correct
transcript of the testimony so given
by said witness
as aforesaid .
further certify '_hat the signature of the
witness was not waived .
I further certify that I am not counsel for
nor in any way related to any of the parties to this
suit, nor am. I i . any way interested i_ . the outcome
thereof .
Se
In testimony whereof? I hereunto set my
hand and affix my not_a-ial seal on this day, Monday,
ptember
21 , 2006 .
Aana M . Giftos, Certified Shorthand Reporter
(State cf Illinois License #084-0 35711
My commission expires 07/24/07 .
OFFICIAL
SEAL
NOTARY
MY COMMISSION
PUBLIC
STATEEVIRESOF
:07f2a7ILLINOIS
Page 45
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v
. PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
A
Aana 1 :1 1 45:3,22
abatement 7:6
about 5:18 7:2 8:19
10 :11 13 :22 14 :9
17:1 18 :1 19 :6
20:M24 21 :1 .1
23:1 27:12 28:3
31
:5 .19 34:16
35 :13 36:5.6 37 :6
39:3 .17 40:18
41 :23
accordance 3 : 10
accrued
10:21
active 8 :16
activity 31 :9
actually 4 :17 6 :18
11 :16 12 :4 14 :10
16:11 17:3 41 :6
ad
36 :6.7
add 13:6 14:7
16 :22 17 :9
added 28:7
adding 14:1
address 4 :5 .7,10
addressed 17 :3
addressee 16 :7
administration
28 :18
administrator
28 :20 36 :16
administrators
26
:4
adoption 41 :8
adult 4 :14 .18
affix 45:17
aforesaid 44:9.11
44 :10
against
19 :11 .18
20 :15 32:6 42 :11
42
:15,16.19
agency 38 :18
ago 8 :19 11 :9,10
33 :18,19,20 36 :8
36 :10
agree 16 :10 30 :9.12
41 :16
agreeable
28 :9
agreement 3 :I 1
ahead 29 :19
ahold 5 :22
Akeson 35 :1 .7.9
allegations
5
:15
Allen 27 :6 .21 28 :4
28:6,12 29 :7.8
Allen's 27 :15
almost 40:2
along 42 :3
already 35 :13
41 :10
always 25 :7
amend 28 :8 .9
among 13 :4 18 :24
amount 35:23
Amy 37 :18
answer 29 :18
answered 12 :19
answers 3 :24
anybody 20:13
21 :11 22
:10 25 :21
33 :6
anyone 10 :15
anything 14 :9
17:21 .22 21 :12
asbestos 7 :18
asked
31
:4 39 :16
asking 16:19
assuming 27 :15
29:20
Atkins 40:24
attachments 30:2
attempt 15:7 31 :23
attended
31 :8 322
32 :5,8 .11
attention 30 :19
attorneys 17 :17
audience 15 :1
Auken 38 :7
author 24:20.24
26 :16
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v .
PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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9-15-2006
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PCB06-184
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9-15-2006
March-April
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
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DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Page 51
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PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
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DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Page 52
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PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY V . PEORIA
PCB06-184
COUNTY BOARD
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DAVID WILLIAMS
9-15-2006
Page 53
PEORIA DISPOSAL COMPANY v . PEORIA COUNTY BOARD
PCB06-184
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