BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
     
     
    ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL
    PROTECTION AGENCY,
     
    Complainaint,
     
    vs. AC 05-20
    (IEPA No. 412-04-AC)
    (Administrative Citation)
     
    JOHN GROFF,
     
    Respondent.
     
     
     
     
     
    Proceedings held on July 18th, 2005, at 12:30 p.m., at the
    City Hall in Marion County, 101 South Broadway, Salem, Illinois,
    before Carol Webb, Chief Hearing Officer.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    Reported by: Beverly S. Hopkins, CSR, RPR
    CSR License No.: 084-004316
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
    11 North 44th Street
    Belleville, IL 62226

     
     
     
     
     
     
    A P P E A R A N C E S
     
     
     
     
     
    ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
    1021 North Grand Avenue East
    Springfield, Illinois 62794
    (271) 524-8509
    BY: CAROL WEBB
     
    ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
    1021 North Grand Avenue East
    Springfield, Illinois 62794
    BY: MS. MICHELLE M. RYAN,
    Special Assistant Attorney General
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    2
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Good afternoon. My name is Carol
     
    2 Webb. I'm the hearing officer with the Pollution Control Board.
     
    3 This is AC 05-20, IEPA vs. John Groff. It is July 18th and we
     
    4 were scheduled to begin at 11 a.m.. We are beginning at 12:30
     
    5 because we had a mixup with the court reporter.
     
    6 I will note for the record that there are several members
     
    7 of the public present. We have some interns from the IEPA and
     
    8 Mr. Groff has brought someone as well. Members of the public are
     
    9 allowed to provide public comment if they so choose.
     
    10 At issue in this case is the EPA's allegation that
     
    11 respondent violated Sections 21(P1), (P2) and (P3) of the
     
    12 Environmental Protection Act at 2503 Barton Road in Junction
     
    13 City, Marion County.
     
    14 You should know that it is the Pollution Control Board and
     
    15 not me that will make the final decision in this case. My
     
    16 purpose is to conduct the hearing in a neutral and orderly manner
     
    17 so that we have a clear record of the proceeding. I will also
     
    18 assess the credibility of any witnesses on the record at the end
     
    19 of the hearing.
     
    20 This hearing was noticed pursuant to the Act and the
     
    21 Board's rules and will be conducted pursuant to Sections 101.600
     
    22 through 101.632 of the Board's procedural rules.
     
    23 At this time I would like to ask the parties to please make
     
    24 their appearances on the record.
     
     
    3
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 MS. RYAN: Michelle Ryan, Special Assistant Attorney
     
    2 General for the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency. I have
     
    3 my paper appearance here today.
     
    4 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay.
     
    5 MS. RYAN: The original is the paper clipped one on top.
     
    6 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: All right.
     
    7 MS. RYAN: I will give you a copy of that as well.
     
    8 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Mr. Groff is here representing
     
    9 himself, is that correct, Mr. Groff?
     
    10 MR. GROFF: Yes, it is.
     
    11 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Are there any preliminary
     
    12 matters anyone would like to discuss before we begin?
     
    13 MS. RYAN: No.
     
    14 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Ms. Ryan, would you like to
     
    15 make an opening statement?
     
    16 MS. RYAN: Yes. We believe the evidence will show that on
     
    17 July 29th, 2004, at Mr. John Groff's property violations of open
     
    18 dumping resulting in litter, open burning and the deposition of
     
    19 construction of demolition debris were observed at the site and
     
    20 that there is no defense to these violations.
     
    21 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Thank you. Mr. Groff, would you
     
    22 like to make any opening comments at this time? You don't have
     
    23 to if you don't want to.
     
    24 MR. GROFF: No.
     
     
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    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: No. Okay. Ms. Ryan, you may
     
    2 present your case.
     
    3 MS. RYAN: We call Chris Cahnovsky.
     
    4 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Mr. Cahnovsky, would you like to
     
    5 have a seat up here by the court reporter in one of those two
     
    6 chairs. The court reporter will swear you in too.
     
    7 (The witness was sworn by the reporter.)
     
    8 DIRECT EXAMINATION
     
    9 QUESTIONS BY MS. RYAN:
     
    10 Q. Can you state your name for the record?
     
    11 A. My name is Christopher Neal Cahnovsky.
     
    12 Q. And what is your job?
     
    13 A. I am the Regional Manager for the Collinsville Regional
     
    14 Field Office for the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency.
     
    15 Q. And what bureau is that with?
     
    16 A. The Bureau of Land.
     
    17 Q. How long have you held that position?
     
    18 A. Fours years.
     
    19 Q. What was your position prior to that?
     
    20 A. I was environmental protection specialist.
     
    21 Q. Is that a field inspector position?
     
    22 A. Yes.
     
    23 Q. How long were you a field inspector prior to being a
     
    24 regional manager?
     
     
    5
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    1 A. I was a field inspector for 12 years.
     
    2 Q. As regional manager, what are your duties in the office?
     
    3 A. My duties are to supervise a field staff of
     
    4 environmental protection specialists who conduct field
     
    5 inspections, review their reports, make sure their reports are
     
    6 consistent with Agency policy and our enforcement management
     
    7 system, and I also conduct inspections.
     
    8 Q. What's your educational background?
     
    9 A. I have a bachelor's degree in animal science from
     
    10 Southern Illinois University in Carbondale and a master's in
     
    11 environmental studies from Southern Illinois University in
     
    12 Edwardsville.
     
    13 Q. Have you had any other training besides your formal
     
    14 schooling?
     
    15 A. Yes. I am a certified hazardous materials manager. I
     
    16 obtained a certification in 1993 through the Institute of
     
    17 Hazardous Materials Management and have been Board of Directors
     
    18 of the Gateway Society of Hazardous Materials Managers, which I
     
    19 received quite a bit of training on hazardous materials. I was
     
    20 also involved with the writing of the Illinois Solid Waste
     
    21 Inspectors Manual.
     
    22 Q. Are you familiar with the facility known as the Groff
     
    23 property in Junction City?
     
    24 A. Yes, I am.
     
     
    6
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 Q. Where is that property located?
     
    2 A. In Junction City in Marion County.
     
    3 Q. Is it actually in the city limits there?
     
    4 A. I do not believe it's within the city limits of Junction
     
    5 City.
     
    6 Q. Is it -- Do you know which direction from the city?
     
    7 A. It's south of the city.
     
    8 Q. South of the city. Who owns this property?
     
    9 A. John Groff.
     
    10 Q. Have you ever conducted an inspection there?
     
    11 A. Yes, I have.
     
    12 Q. How many times?
     
    13 A. Just once.
     
    14 Q. Do you recall the date of that inspection?
     
    15 A. It was May 2004. The exact date I don't recall at this
     
    16 moment. I believe it was May 25th.
     
    17 Q. I'm handing you what I have marked as Exhibit 1. Can
     
    18 you tell me do you recognize that document?
     
    19 A. Yes, I do.
     
    20 Q. What is it?
     
    21 A. It is an open dump inspection checklist, the open dump
     
    22 inspection checklist narrative, the open dump inspection site
     
    23 sketch and the photographs that accompany the inspection report.
     
    24 Q. And to what inspection does this report refer?
     
     
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    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 A. This report refers to a June 29th, 2004, inspection
     
    2 conducted by James Baumer.
     
    3 Q. Can I suggest that it may be July 29th?
     
    4 A. I'm sorry, July 29th, 2004, inspection -- inspected by
     
    5 Jay Baumer.
     
    6 Q. Did Jay Baumer complete this report?
     
    7 A. Yes.
     
    8 Q. Why is he not available to testify today?
     
    9 A. Mr. Baumer is on disability. He's been on disability
     
    10 since February.
     
    11 Q. Is his return expected or unknown at this time?
     
    12 A. His return is unknown.
     
    13 Q. Who was Mr. Baumer's supervisor during this inspection
     
    14 in July of 2004?
     
    15 A. I was Mr. Baumer's supervisor.
     
    16 Q. And what role do you play as supervisor in the
     
    17 completion of this inspection report?
     
    18 A. I make sure that this inspection conforms with the
     
    19 Agency policies and the enforcement management system and the
     
    20 administrative citation warning notice and administrative
     
    21 citation guidelines with the Agency.
     
    22 Q. Have you had a chance to look through the document?
     
    23 A. Yes, I have.
     
    24 Q. Is this a fair, accurate and complete copy of the report
     
     
    8
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 that you were produced from Jay Baumer?
     
    2 A. Yes, it is.
     
    3 Q. Can you describe the Groff property in general?
     
    4 A. The property is located in a rural setting on Barton
     
    5 Road. There is a creek, drainage ditch that bisects the
     
    6 property. On one side of the property is a residence and there's
     
    7 a small foot bridge which goes into a grassy area and then behind
     
    8 the grassy area is a wooded area.
     
    9 Q. Who took the photographs that are attached to the
     
    10 inspection report?
     
    11 A. James Baumer.
     
    12 Q. And how are they taken?
     
    13 A. Using a digital camera.
     
    14 Q. How are they processed from the digital camera into
     
    15 print form -- sorry -- into the format that we see in the
     
    16 inspection report, the page set up?
     
    17 A. Sure. The -- the photos are downloaded from the digital
     
    18 camera to a desktop computer, which they are put into a J. Pack
     
    19 format, stored on an Agency prescribed procedures and then loaded
     
    20 onto a CD for storage. And then they're from -- from the files
     
    21 they are loaded onto a WordPerfect -- I'm sorry -- a Microsoft
     
    22 Word document and then they are printed out and attached to the
     
    23 inspection report.
     
    24 Q. Does Illinois EPA procedures allow for any editing or
     
     
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    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 enhancing of the photographs from the digital cameras?
     
    2 A. No, they are not allowed to be edited or enhanced.
     
    3 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that the photographs
     
    4 attached to this inspection report were changed in any way from
     
    5 the photographs that were taken at the property?
     
    6 A. No.
     
    7 Q. Based on your previous inspection of the property in May
     
    8 of 2004 and your knowledge of the required procedures for field
     
    9 inspection, do these photographs accurately depict the condition
     
    10 of the Groff property in July 29th, 2004?
     
    11 A. Yes.
     
    12 Q. When was this inspection report generated?
     
    13 A. Mr. Baumer wrote this inspection report on August 3rd,
     
    14 2004.
     
    15 Q. And does Illinois EPA keep these reports in the regular
     
    16 course of its business?
     
    17 A. Yes.
     
    18 Q. If you could page back to the photographs now, I note
     
    19 you have a photograph file name?
     
    20 A. Yes.
     
    21 Q. Can you explain to me what that indicates?
     
    22 A. The photo file name, the first 10 digits is the unique
     
    23 site ID number, then the date on which the photograph was taken,
     
    24 and then the number of the photograph.
     
     
    10
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 Q. And the photographs are just numbered sequentially from
     
    2 number one?
     
    3 A. Yes.
     
    4 Q. From each inspection?
     
    5 A. Yes.
     
    6 Q. And can you look at the photograph starting with
     
    7 photograph number one and describe what is shown in the
     
    8 photograph?
     
    9 A. This photograph shows tires on rims located between
     
    10 several rows of fencing.
     
    11 Q. You can continue through the photographs after you're
     
    12 done with each one.
     
    13 A. Sure. Photograph two shows a flatbed trailer with
     
    14 several rolls of fencing on it. Photograph three shows a -- what
     
    15 appears to be a Jeep vehicle. Photograph four shows an area of
     
    16 burned debris, appears to be burned demolition debris consisting
     
    17 of wood, painted wood, tires and landscape material and
     
    18 Styrofoam. Photograph five is a more detailed picture of
     
    19 photograph four which shows burned tire rings around a -- around
     
    20 a wooden stump. Picture six shows the burned area from a
     
    21 different view and shows some tire wire from a burned tire that
     
    22 was not previously shown on other photographs. Photograph seven
     
    23 shows wire rings possibly from burned tires and partially burned
     
    24 lumber and plastic at the edge of the burn area. Picture number
     
     
    11
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 eight is the same photo but just at a different view. And
     
    2 picture number nine shows another burned area containing some
     
    3 tire wire and other burn material.
     
    4 Q. Do you know what the other objects in the foreground of
     
    5 that final picture number nine are?
     
    6 A. Appear to be pieces of metal.
     
    7 Q. And you're not familiar where they may have come from?
     
    8 A. No, I'm not.
     
    9 Q. Back on page -- photograph seven and eight --
     
    10 A. Yes.
     
    11 Q. -- can you determine what that blue object is in the
     
    12 picture there?
     
    13 A. From the photograph I cannot positively identify what
     
    14 that -- what that is. It appears to be something that's plastic,
     
    15 a tarp or inflatable swimming pool or something like that.
     
    16 Q. Back to photograph number five, you said this was the --
     
    17 something to the effect of burned tires. I want to know how you
     
    18 make that determination?
     
    19 A. Tires contain a steel belt in them or steel wire where
     
    20 the middle of the tire attaches to the rim. And in my vast
     
    21 experience with many, many tire fires, this is what the remnants
     
    22 of a burned tire look like. When all the rubber is gone, this is
     
    23 the metal debris that is left that holds the tire to the rim.
     
    24 Possibly the other wire is from a steel belting because it looks
     
     
    12
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 like it may have been possibly a truck tire or some other tire
     
    2 that had a steel belt in it.
     
    3 Q. Okay. In this photograph there is also some -- what
     
    4 looks like branches on top of the dump and the tire wire --
     
    5 A. Yes.
     
    6 Q. -- is that accurate? Is that -- In your opinion does
     
    7 that appear to be burned at all?
     
    8 A. The branches do not appear to be burned. They appear to
     
    9 be -- appear to have been placed on this area after the fire.
     
    10 Q. And back to photograph number four, outside of the
     
    11 actual burn area, the blackened area, what type of material did
     
    12 you say that was around the outside edge?
     
    13 A. It appears to be tongue and groove lumbar or some other
     
    14 type of similar appearing lumber material, and it looks like
     
    15 there might be some tar paper from roofing and Styrofoam and
     
    16 other painted lumbar.
     
    17 Q. Back in photograph number three, the photograph of the
     
    18 Jeep --
     
    19 A. Yes.
     
    20 Q. -- do you have any information as to whether or not this
     
    21 vehicle is an operable vehicle?
     
    22 A. No, I don't.
     
    23 MS. RYAN: At this time I would move to Exhibit 1 into
     
    24 evidence.
     
     
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    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Any objection, Mr. Groff?
     
    2 MR. GROFF: No.
     
    3 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Exhibit 1 is admitted into evidence.
     
    4 MS. RYAN: And that's all I have of this witness at this
     
    5 time.
     
    6 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Mr. Groff, would you like to
     
    7 cross-examine this witness?
     
    8 MR. GROFF: Yes, I would like to ask a couple things.
     
    9 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay, if you would come closer.
     
    10 CROSS-EXAMINATION
     
    11 QUESTIONS BY MR. GROFF:
     
    12 Q. These pictures that you showed here, they're not the
     
    13 original pictures, are they?
     
    14 A. Well, they're electronic pictures so I would say, yes,
     
    15 they are the original pictures. They are copies of the
     
    16 electronic pictures.
     
    17 Q. These are the first pictures taken?
     
    18 A. The original -- From the original inspection?
     
    19 Q. From the first inspection?
     
    20 A. No, those are from a subsequent inspection.
     
    21 Q. Okay. The pictures from the original, or first ones,
     
    22 showed a little more stuff in it. This here's showing the
     
    23 trailer that's got tires and the wiring on it in the first
     
    24 picture?
     
     
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    1 A. Yes, sir.
     
    2 Q. And the Jeep, are they -- is it against the law to have
     
    3 that stuff sitting on a property?
     
    4 A. If the tires are scrap tires, a resident is allowed to
     
    5 have up to 12 tires prior to them having to notify. And at the
     
    6 time of the original inspection there were -- were many tires
     
    7 there plus some appeared to have been burned so the burned ones
     
    8 you're not allowed to have.
     
    9 Q. Okay.
     
    10 A. But the fencing, the fencing appears to be usable and in
     
    11 my opinion the fencing was not part of the open dumping.
     
    12 Q. Says in here -- These papers are different than the ones
     
    13 I've got. The first papers I received it had in there where if I
     
    14 made the corrections to the property, fixed up what I did and I
     
    15 sent papers showing where I sent off the tires and had them
     
    16 disposed of, yet I still have to go to court on this. Jay Baumer
     
    17 is the one that told me that if I did all the corrections,
     
    18 everything would have been taken care of, and now Jay Baumer is
     
    19 not even here today for me to question on this. It's all taken
     
    20 word of something else.
     
    21 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Well, Mr. Groff, you will have an
     
    22 opportunity to testify. Right now I'm just asking you if you
     
    23 have any questions for this witness? You will have an
     
    24 opportunity to make all those statements.
     
     
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    1 MR. GROFF: All right. I don't have any more.
     
    2 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: You don't have any more questions.
     
    3 All right. Any redirect?
     
    4 MS. RYAN: Yes.
     
    5 REDIRECT-EXAMINATION
     
    6 QUESTIONS BY MS. RYAN:
     
    7 Q. Mr. Cahnovsky, can you -- I've handed you what I marked
     
    8 as Exhibit 2, can you tell me if you recognize this document?
     
    9 A. Yes, I do.
     
    10 Q. What is it?
     
    11 A. It's an administrative -- it's an open dumping
     
    12 administrative citation warning notice dated June 7th, 2004.
     
    13 Q. Can you page through the document for me?
     
    14 A. Yes.
     
    15 Q. Is this a fair, accurate and complete copy of the
     
    16 administrative citation warning notice that was sent to Mr.
     
    17 Groff?
     
    18 A. Yes, it -- yes, it is.
     
    19 Q. And this was sent following your initial inspection but
     
    20 prior to Mr. Baumer's second inspection; is that correct?
     
    21 A. Actually the May 25th inspection was conducted by James
     
    22 Baumer. He was --
     
    23 Q. I apologize.
     
    24 A. I was there with him because he was new and I was
     
     
    16
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    1 training him so he completed this administrative citation warning
     
    2 notice.
     
    3 Q. Okay. But it was done between the two inspections --
     
    4 A. Yes.
     
    5 Q. -- that following the first and before the second?
     
    6 A. Yes, it was, yes.
     
    7 Q. And why was this notice sent to Mr. Groff?
     
    8 A. It is -- The May 25th, 2004, inspection showed
     
    9 violations of the Illinois Environmental Protection Act and the
     
    10 administrative -- the open dump administrative citation warning
     
    11 notice as sent to the property owner to -- to alert them that the
     
    12 violations exist and provide corrective actions which they must
     
    13 take to correct the violations.
     
    14 Q. Can you tell me does it -- does it give instructions as
     
    15 to how to -- to come into compliance with the Act?
     
    16 A. Yes, it outlines that the respondent must immediately
     
    17 cease all open dumping, do not dispose of any waste by open
     
    18 burning, cease all open burning. And by July 5th, 2004, remove
     
    19 all waste to a permitted landfill or transfer station. And by
     
    20 July 5th, 2004, remove all waste -- I'm sorry, I just repeated,
     
    21 that's the same one. And then remove all the tires. And loads
     
    22 of 20 tires or more need to be transported by a registered tire
     
    23 transporter and do not open burn tires. And by July 11th, 2004,
     
    24 submit all copies and receipts to the Illinois EPA showing proper
     
     
    17
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 disposal.
     
    2 Q. Based on your attendance at the May 25th, 2004,
     
    3 inspection and your review of the photographs in the July 29th,
     
    4 2004, inspection, was there any additional evidence of open
     
    5 burning occurring between those two inspections?
     
    6 A. Yes, there was.
     
    7 Q. And can you determine what type of material appears to
     
    8 have been open burned during that time?
     
    9 A. During that time it appeared to be construction or
     
    10 demolition debris consisting of wood, painted wood and other
     
    11 demolition construction debris material and tires were burned.
     
    12 MS. RYAN: I would move Exhibit 2 into evidence.
     
    13 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Is there any objection, Mr. Groff?
     
    14 MR. GROFF: No.
     
    15 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Exhibit 2 is admitted into
     
    16 evidence.
     
    17 MS. RYAN: That's all I have.
     
    18 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Mr. Groff, would you like to
     
    19 ask this witness any questions about the new items Ms. Ryan just
     
    20 brought up about Exhibit 2?
     
    21 MR. GROFF: No.
     
    22 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Thank you very much, sir.
     
    23 Mr. Groff, you may come testify, if you wouldn't mind setting up
     
    24 here. And I understand you are John S. Groff?
     
     
    18
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 MR. GROFF: That's correct.
     
    2 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. The court reporter will swear
     
    3 you in.
     
    4 (The witness was sworn by the reporter.)
     
    5 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: You may just go ahead and make your
     
    6 statement.
     
    7 MR. GROFF: I don't know what to do about this. I did send
     
    8 papers in telling on this reply to the citation, citation, of
     
    9 where I disposed of the tires. And I sent in a copy of the paper
     
    10 that showed where I disposed of them and I gave the reason why I
     
    11 was burning. I was burning stumps out of the property and was
     
    12 for the -- the wood and stuff is from a shed that I tore down on
     
    13 the property and I've been burning trees that I cut down. And
     
    14 that's what the burn sites are. And I'm still cutting trees down
     
    15 and I'm disposing of them by burning them. I didn't think there
     
    16 was a law against burning trees and wood, stuff that I -- off of
     
    17 my own property.
     
    18 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Is there anything else you'd like to
     
    19 say about the items that were in the photographs?
     
    20 MR. GROFF: Well, as for that trailer, that fence wire and
     
    21 stuff, I've -- I've got a fence put around my property and that
     
    22 is part of the fence that goes around the property. And the
     
    23 tires on the trailer are tires that goes to our other trailers
     
    24 that we have. The Jeep is a antique Jeep. And it's -- it runs
     
     
    19
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    1 and moves and I've just got it sitting up there. The burn spots
     
    2 are the same burn spots. I haven't burned no more tires since I
     
    3 got the letters. And as for the big pile in the first pictures,
     
    4 they were burned before I even got any letters from the EPA.
     
    5 Because I work on -- I'm away from home all the time. I'm only
     
    6 home a few days a week and I don't get my mail as quick as what
     
    7 they -- the paper states. So a lot of it I've already had it
     
    8 taken care of before I even got the papers. I guess that's all I
     
    9 have to say about it.
     
    10 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Ms. Ryan, do you have any
     
    11 questions for Mr. Groff?
     
    12 MS. RYAN: Yes.
     
    13 CROSS-EXAMINATION
     
    14 QUESTIONS BY MS. RYAN:
     
    15 Q. Mr. Groff, in your petition for review you said you were
     
    16 burning the stump by using tires and dimensional lumber; is that
     
    17 correct?
     
    18 A. And tree limbs.
     
    19 Q. And you're saying you didn't burn any tires since the
     
    20 first inspection?
     
    21 A. Since that first inspection.
     
    22 Q. But you did burn dimensional lumber since that first
     
    23 inspection?
     
    24 A. No, the two piles that was in the first inspection,
     
     
    20
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    1 first pictures, these aren't the pictures that I have at home.
     
    2 Q. Okay.
     
    3 A. And there was two piles of lumber that they're talking
     
    4 about. Well, I burned them before I even got any papers from the
     
    5 EPA, so they were already burned up.
     
    6 Q. But since the inspection, the first inspection occurred,
     
    7 you burned them?
     
    8 A. Yeah.
     
    9 Q. Okay. But before you got paperwork from the IEPA?
     
    10 A. Yes.
     
    11 Q. I understand. And do you farm on your property, Mr.
     
    12 Groff?
     
    13 A. No, I don't.
     
    14 Q. And you said you burned a shed --
     
    15 A. Yes.
     
    16 Q. -- in that area?
     
    17 MS. RYAN: Okay. That's all I have.
     
    18 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. Is there anything else you'd
     
    19 like to explain about any of the questions that she just asked
     
    20 you?
     
    21 MR. GROFF: No, there hasn't been no open dumping of any
     
    22 trash or anything like it -- like one of these things says. I
     
    23 don't have trash on the property but most of my property is
     
    24 already been a dump site. The water is washing away a lot of the
     
     
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    1 dirt and underneath is glass particles and tin cans that I keep
     
    2 picking up. And every time it rains, it washes more out, so
     
    3 apparently it was a dump site before I even bought the property.
     
    4 The only burning I've done is in them three burn sites that shows
     
    5 in the picture, and most of that is just to burn up the stumps
     
    6 that I cut down. And I've got about 20 other tree stumps that
     
    7 I've cut down and I'm still cutting down trees to make it clear
     
    8 out to be where grass will grow. That's it.
     
    9 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Do you have any further questions
     
    10 about anything?
     
    11 MS. RYAN: No.
     
    12 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay, okay. Mr. Groff, you may step
     
    13 down. Now I understand you brought -- Is this gentleman, your
     
    14 father?
     
    15 MR. GROFF: Yes, that's my dad.
     
    16 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Would you like to call him to
     
    17 testify or would he like to make -- Sir, would you like to make a
     
    18 public comment? Would you like to speak at all?
     
    19 MR. ROBERT GROFF: No.
     
    20 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: You said no?
     
    21 MR. GROFF: The only thing I want to know is if it's
     
    22 against the law for people to trespass on private property, that
     
    23 is posted and they never contacted me. They come onto my
     
    24 property, trespassed onto my property without permission and my
     
     
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    1 yard is posted no trespassing. How is that possible for them to
     
    2 come on my property?
     
    3 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: You may make that argument in your
     
    4 post-hearing brief. The Board has addressed this issue
     
    5 previously. But you may certainly bring it up in your -- in your
     
    6 post-hearing brief and I'll explain to you when we're off the
     
    7 record how that is and how you can go about doing that. So if
     
    8 there are -- I think we're through with you. I don't think
     
    9 anyone has any further questions for you. Let's go off the
     
    10 record for a moment.
     
    11 (A discussion was held off the record.)
     
    12 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: We've just had an off-the-record
     
    13 discussion regarding post-hearing briefs and the parties have
     
    14 agreed to a briefing schedule as follows: First, the transcript
     
    15 of these proceedings will be available from the court reporter by
     
    16 July 28th and will be posted on the Board's website. The public
     
    17 comment deadline will be August 5th. And any public comment must
     
    18 be filed in accordance with Section 101.628 of the Board's
     
    19 procedural rules. The complainant's brief is due by August 11th
     
    20 and the respondent's brief is due by August 26th, and the mailbox
     
    21 rule will apply. Ms. Ryan, do you -- I didn't ask you, did you
     
    22 want to file a reply brief, if needed?
     
    23 MS. RYAN: If necessary, I will probably only need another
     
    24 week or so.
     
     
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    1 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Okay. How about September 2nd?
     
    2 MS. RYAN: That's fine.
     
    3 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: At this time I would like to ask --
     
    4 oh, I'm sorry, Ms. Ryan, would you like to make a closing
     
    5 argument?
     
    6 MS. RYAN: No, I'll reserve that for my brief.
     
    7 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: And, Mr. Groff, do you have a
     
    8 closing argument that you'd like to make?
     
    9 MR. GROFF: No.
     
    10 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: At this time I will ask again if
     
    11 there any members of the public that would like to make
     
    12 statements on the record? And seeing none, I will proceed to
     
    13 make a judgment as to the credibility of the witnesses testifying
     
    14 during this hearing. Based on my legal judgement and experience,
     
    15 I find all of the witnesses testifying to be credible. At this
     
    16 time I will conclude the proceedings. We stand adjourned and I
     
    17 thank all of you for your participation.
     
    18 MS. RYAN: Thank you.
     
    19 HEARING OFFICER WEBB: Thank you.
     
    20
     
    21
     
    22
     
    23
     
    24
     
     
    24
    KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY

     
     
     
     
     
    STATE OF ILLINOIS
     
    COUNTY OF FAYETTE
     
     
     
    C E R T I F I C A T E
     
     
     
    I, BEVERLY S. HOPKINS, a Notary Public in and for the
     
    County of Fayette, State of Illinois, DO HEREBY CERTIFY that the
     
    foregoing 24 pages comprise a true, complete and correct
     
    transcript of the proceedings held on the 18th day of July, A.D.,
     
    2005, at the City Hall, Marion County, Salem, Illinois, in the
     
    case of IEPA versus John Groff, in proceedings held before
     
    Hearing Officer Carol Webb, and recorded in machine shorthand by
     
    me.
     
    IN WITNESS WHEREOF I have hereunto set my hand and affixed
     
    by Notarial Seal this 24th day of July, A.D., 2005.
     
     
     
     
     
    ________________________________
    Beverly S. Hopkins
    Notary Public and
    Certified Shorthand Reporter and
    Registered Professional Reporter
     
    CSR License No. 084-004316
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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