1
1 BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD OF THE
STATE OF ILLINOIS
2
3
4 IN THE MATTER OF: )
PROPOSED NEW AND UPDATED RULES FOR )
5 MEASUREMENT AND NUMERICAL SOUND ) No. R03-9
EMISSIONS STANDARD AMENDMENTS TO )
6 35 ILL. ADM. CODE 901 and 910 )
)
7
8
9
10
11 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS held in the
12 hearing of the above-entitled matter, taken
13 stenographically by Maria E. Shockey, CSR, before
14 MARIE E. TIPSORD, Hearing Officer, at the
15 James R. Thompson Center, 100 West Randolph Street,
16 Room 8-033, Chicago, Illinois, on the 10th of
17 February, A.D., 2004, at 10:06 a.m.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
2
1 A P P E A R A N C E S:
2
3 ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD,
100 West Randolph Street
4 Room 8-033
Chicago, Illinois 60601
5 (312) 814-6983
BY: MS. MARIE E. TIPSORD, HEARING OFFICER;
6
OFFICE OF THE ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL,
7 188 West Randolph Street
20th Floor
8 Chicago, Illinois 60601
(312) 814-5393
9 BY: MR. HOWARD O. CHINN, P.E., CHIEF ENGINEER
ENVIRONMENTAL BUREAU NORTH;
10
11 OFFICE OF THE ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL,
188 West Randolph Street
12 20th Floor
Chicago, Illinois 60601
13 (312) 814-5393
BY: MR. JOEL J. STERNSTEIN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY
14 GENERAL, ENVIRONMENTAL BUREAU NORTH.
15
16 PANEL OF BOARD MEMBERS:
MR. G. TANNER GIRARD, LEAD BOARD MEMBER
17 MR. ANAND RAO
MS. LISA LIU
18
19
ALSO PRESENT:
20
MR. JOHN P. McGILLIVRAY, MANAGER OF
21 SCOT FORGE SAFETY & ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
22
23
24
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
3
1 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Good
2 morning. My name is Marie Tipsord, and I've
3 been appointed by the Board to serve as
4 hearing officer in this proceeding entitled:
5 In the Matter of Proposed New and Updated
6 Rules for Measurement and Numerical Sound
7 Emissions Standard Amendments to 35 Ill. Adm.
8 Code 901 and 910. The Docket Number is
9 R03-9.
10 To my right is Dr. Tanner Girard,
11 the lead board member assigned to this
12 matter, and to my immediate left is
13 Anand Rao, the head of our finance technical
14 unit, and to his left is Lisa Liu, also a
15 member of our scientific and technical unit.
16 This is the third hearing to be
17 held in this proceeding and is being held
18 because the Board received a request for a
19 third hearing from Boughton Trucking
20 Materials, Inc., and the Illinois Association
21 of Aggregate Producers.
22 The purpose of today's hearing is
23 to allow anyone who wishes to testify. And I
24 see one person here to testify,
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
4
1 Mr. McGillivray. We'll have you sworn in and
2 let you give your testimony.
3 MR. GIRARD: Maybe I should --
4 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Oh, wait.
5 I'm sorry.
6 Dr. Girard?
7 MR. GIRARD: Thank you.
8 On behalf of the Board, I'd like
9 to welcome everyone to the hearing today.
10 The Board is very serious about updating our
11 noise rules. These rules have not been
12 updated since the 1980s and so we're very
13 pleased to be involved in this process, and
14 we're pleased that we're getting some
15 participation from some of the affected
16 groups.
17 We hope maybe more people can be
18 roped into coming in and testifying and
19 helping us make the very best noise rules we
20 can put together. So I am pleased that
21 John McGillivray from Scot Forge is here
22 today and, of course, I'm pleased to see
23 Howard Chinn and Joel Sternstein from the
24 Attorney General's Office, they've been with
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 us since the beginning.
2 And so we look forward to hearing
3 testimony and comments and hope that you
4 could get other members of the business
5 community involved so that we have good rules
6 crafted. Thank you.
7 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Go ahead and
8 swear him in now.
9 THE REPORTER: Okay.
10 (Witness sworn.)
11 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Thank you.
12 Go ahead.
13 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I'd like to submit
14 the following handout just for reference
15 purposes.
16 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: If there's
17 no objection, then we'll admit this as
18 Exhibit 1.
19 (No response.)
20 Seeing none, this will be admitted as
21 Exhibit 1.
22 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I'd like to
23 introduce myself. My name is John
24 McGillivray. I'm the manager of safety and
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 environmental affairs for the Scot Forge
2 Company. I've been in this position for
3 approximately six years.
4 I'd like to give a brief overview
5 of our company and discuss why we are in
6 favor of updating the rules and make it
7 concurrent with our current operations.
8 Scot Forge has been in operation
9 with the greater Chicagoland area for
10 111 years. It started out as brothers coming
11 across on the boat from Scotland and being
12 blacksmiths in the town of Chicago and then
13 later moved to Cicero.
14 Currently, we are an
15 employee-owned company. We've been that way
16 for 25 years. All of us have a stake as
17 employee owners in the continued operation of
18 our company. We have approximately $145
19 millions in annual sales with expected annual
20 sales of $154 million in 2004.
21 Our business is booming. We have
22 locations in Franklin Park, Illinois; Spring
23 Grove, Illinois] And Clinton, Wisconsin. Our
24 primary products are open-die and metal
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 forges.
2 We operate both steam drop hammers
3 at the Franklin Park facility, and the
4 Clinton, Wisconsin and Spring Grove, Illinois
5 facilities operate hydraulic presses.
6 The reason that we're here
7 today -- or that I'm here today is to discuss
8 our consolidation from our Cicero, Illinois
9 plant to our Franklin Park location, which
10 occurred in 1993.
11 At that point, in late '92, our
12 sales had increased to the point where we had
13 outgrown our Cicero operation, and that is
14 the facility that is covered under Section
15 901.118 of the Scot Forge Company located in
16 Cicero, Illinois.
17 In 1993, we purchased the
18 Hellstrom Corporation, which was another drop
19 hamper shop that was located in Franklin
20 Park, Illinois, and began the process of
21 consolidating assets to that location. In
22 our Cicero operation, we operated three drop
23 hammers.
24 The Hellstrom Corporation had
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 eight drop hammers standing, although, they
2 did not operate -- they only operated six, I
3 believe. So in 1993, again, we consolidated,
4 and in 1994, we closed our Cicero operation.
5 Most of the Hellstrom employees were retained
6 by Scot Forge in addition to transferring our
7 Cicero employees to the new location.
8 After the consolidation, we had
9 been currently running on and off six hammers
10 at that facility, and when we submitted our
11 request to update the current section of
12 Code 118 on August 28, 2003, we had requested
13 to operate no more than six forging hammers
14 at any one time.
15 At this board meeting, I would
16 like to request that it be increased to seven
17 at any one time. Again, our business outlook
18 for 2004 to 2005 may dictate at any given
19 time we may have to operate seven.
20 We can get by on six, but I think
21 that if our business continues to grow, it
22 will become a definite necessity. And rather
23 than taking anymore time with the Board, I'd
24 like to build into the permit the option of
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 operating that seventh permit.
2 So I guess in summary, Scott Forge
3 is requesting that the updated permit read
4 that we operate no more than seven hammers at
5 any one time for the period of 6:00 a.m. to
6 11:00 p.m., Monday through Saturday at our
7 current location of
8 9394 West Belmont Avenue in Franklin Park,
9 Illinois.
10 One thing about this location, it
11 is adjacent to the Wisconsin Central Railroad
12 line, which is one of the largest and busiest
13 railroads in the area. The noise levels in
14 that area already because of the train
15 traffic are exceptionally high.
16 When we're having a meeting in our
17 building and a train comes to the crossing on
18 Belmont Avenue, we have to stop our meeting
19 waiting for the whistles to stop. So noise
20 level-wise inside the building, you can get
21 up to 110 to 114 decibels in terms of impact
22 noise levels.
23 Once you get outside the structure
24 at the facility perimeter, it's typically
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 down to the 92 to 93 level and, again, we're
2 in an industrial site with the railroad right
3 next to us. To my knowledge, in the six
4 years that I've been in this position, I've
5 never received noise complaint from our
6 facility.
7 We are also bordered by Nelson
8 Steel. Our two facilities are kind of
9 intermingled, you know, we own one building
10 and they own one building. It's kind of
11 patchworked together, and I'm not sure
12 whether they have received any complaints of
13 noise.
14 We work very strongly with the
15 community of Franklin Park, Illinois to
16 ensure that, you know, any issues are
17 resolved that may come up at any given time.
18 But as I said, in the six years that I've
19 been in this position, I've never had a
20 complaint come forward to my desk.
21 Are there any questions from any
22 of the Board members?
23 MR. CHINN: Where is the nearest
24 resident?
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 MR. McGILLIVRAY: The nearest resident
2 would be approximately probably 125 yards to
3 the west of our facility.
4 MR. CHINN: 125 yards?
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yeah, something in
6 that neck of the woods, maybe 100 yards.
7 One hundred yards is probably more accurate.
8 MR. CHINN: And that's to the west?
9 MR. McGILLIVRAY: To the west.
10 MR. CHINN: Has there been any noise
11 survey or noise measurements around the
12 facility?
13 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We have brought the
14 on-site consultation program from the State
15 of Illinois from the OSHA side in to do noise
16 studies within our facility, yes.
17 MR. CHINN: That's within. How about
18 any noise survey conducted external to the
19 plant?
20 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to my knowledge,
21 sir.
22 MR. CHINN: The noise that is
23 transmitted through the air, are there any
24 vibrations to the ground?
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yes, sir.
2 MR. CHINN: Has that been monitored or
3 measured?
4 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to my knowledge,
5 sir.
6 MR. RAO: The current rules that you
7 want to be amended, are those rules adopted
8 for your Cicero facility? Were they
9 site-specific rules?
10 MR. McGILLIVRAY: They were
11 site-specific, and Section 118 was
12 site-specific to Scot Forge.
13 MR. RAO: And so you want that rule to
14 be replaced by a site-specific rule for your
15 Franklin Park facility?
16 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yes, sir.
17 MR. RAO: And you mentioned the noise
18 measurements taken inside your building and
19 also outside and you gave some rough
20 estimates. Are they A-rated decibel levels?
21 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yes, sir. But that
22 was done by myself as opposed to an outside
23 independent person. And, again, inside the
24 building, we have taken noise levels with the
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
13
1 State of Illinois's on-site consultation
2 program.
3 MR. CHINN: Can you describe the type
4 of instruments that you used for that?
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: For --
6 MR. CHINN: The noise survey.
7 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Just a dosimeter,
8 noise dosimeter.
9 MR. CHINN: Who's the manufacturer?
10 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I've got it sitting
11 in my office. I don't know who manufactured
12 it. I can certainly provide that information
13 to the Board if requested.
14 MR. GIRARD: I have a question. Do
15 many of your workers live in Franklin Park?
16 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I know several are
17 within five minutes. I don't think that they
18 are within the town limits of Franklin Park,
19 certainly the surrounding communities, yes.
20 There's a lot of people from
21 Berwyn, the City of Chicago, Park Ridge, I
22 believe, Hoffman Estates, so there are
23 several within the general vicinity, but I
24 don't know of any that directly live in the
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 Franklin Park area.
2 There are -- at this particular
3 location, we have approximately 60 employees
4 at this site and 480 that's listed in the
5 handout that's corporate company-wide.
6 MR. GIRARD: Thank you.
7 When you talk about being
8 100 yards from the nearest residence, are
9 there any trees or anything in between?
10 MR. McGILLIVRAY: The Nelson Steel
11 Factory is between us and the nearest
12 residence. We have Nelson Steel to the west
13 and then you go into a residential area. To
14 the east, you have the railroad line and then
15 some additional industrial facilities.
16 And across the street to the north
17 -- or excuse me, across the street to the
18 south, we have a bakery. So generally
19 speaking, that specific area is also
20 industrial.
21 MR. GIRARD: Thank you.
22 MR. CHINN: How many employees does
23 the plant have?
24 MR. McGILLIVRAY: At that particular
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 location, approximately 60.
2 MR. CHINN: How many?
3 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Sixty.
4 MR. CHINN: Is that on one shift?
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We operate three
6 shifts. We have -- I'm going to do this
7 backwards. On third shift, we have two
8 individuals. We have five individuals on
9 second shift, and the remaining balance is on
10 the first shift.
11 MR. GIRARD: So in terms of your
12 operation, you say you're operating the
13 hammers from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m., so your
14 third shift is -- no hammers?
15 MR. McGILLIVRAY: That's correct. We
16 have been a first-shift operation with the
17 hammers only for the last approximately three
18 and a half years. The reason that we want to
19 have the flexibility of going to a second
20 shift is, again, if business continues to
21 build, as we hope it does, we want the option
22 of being able to run a second shift if
23 necessary.
24 Certainly from the workers' point
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 of view everyone being on day shift
2 primarily, it is the ideal situation for
3 them. The second shift personnel only run
4 the machine side and heat treat operations,
5 and then third shift is a -- one maintenance
6 person and one heat treat operator. So
7 those, generally speaking, are noiseless
8 operations.
9 So the majority of our noise comes
10 between the hours of 6:00 a.m. and
11 approximately 3:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.
12 MR. GIRARD: Thank you.
13 MR. RAO: When Scot Forge got the
14 site-specific relief back in 1984, there was
15 a lot of testimony that was presented about
16 your forging operations and what it would
17 take for your forging operation to come into
18 compliance with the Board regulations which
19 were found to be unreasonable at that time.
20 Have you had a chance to look at
21 that Board opinion where all of these, you
22 know, factors were discussed to see if some
23 of them still apply or --
24 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I have not seen that
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 documentation, sir.
2 MR. RAO: Okay. Would it be possible
3 for you to take a look at that and, if not
4 today, provide some comments as to -- if the
5 things that were discussed or the factors
6 that were discussed at that time whether, you
7 know, with changes in technology, everything
8 has changed in the last 20 years so that you
9 can do some things or if it's still the same
10 where, you know, to come into compliance
11 would not be a reasonable thing to do?
12 MR. McGILLIVRAY: The equipment that
13 we operate, generally speaking, is not even
14 produced anymore commercially. Most of these
15 hammers are probably in the neighborhood of
16 30 to 50 years old, so we are certainly
17 dealing with dated equipment.
18 But I would be happy to take that
19 back and work with my client's staff to see
20 if there's anything that -- any other
21 concerns that we could address in that.
22 MR. RAO: That would be helpful.
23 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: You can pick
24 up a copy of that upstairs in our offices
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 before you leave today. We'll get you a copy
2 of that --
3 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Okay.
4 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: -- because
5 I'm not sure it's linked on the Web. It's an
6 old enough opinion that it may not be linked
7 on the Web.
8 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Is there a --
9 MR. RAO: The docket number is R83-34.
10 MR. McGILLIVRAY: And that was from
11 19 --
12 MR. RAO: December 20, 1984. It's the
13 Board's final opinion and order.
14 MR. McGILLIVRAY: When would you like
15 your response back by?
16 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: At the close
17 of the hearing, I'm going to be talking about
18 the potential of closing the comment period
19 or even holding another hearing, and we'll
20 set a time frame and I'll send a hearing
21 officer order out letting you know what that
22 is, but no sooner than 60 days.
23 MR. STERNSTEIN: Mr. McGillivray, a
24 couple of questions: Regarding the homes
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 that are in the general vicinity of the
2 Scot Forge plant, how old did you say that
3 most of those homes are? And I realize
4 you're not an expert on the type the
5 construction but --
6 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I would guess most
7 of those homes are 40 years, plus in age.
8 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay.
9 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Brick construction.
10 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay. Have any of
11 the homes in the general vicinity been built
12 within, say, the last five years?
13 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to my knowledge.
14 MR. STERNSTEIN: Are there any vacant
15 or large vacant parcels of property within,
16 say, 200 or 300 yards of the plant?
17 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to my knowledge.
18 MR. STERNSTEIN: And there's been no
19 discussion in the community of new home
20 constructions in that area?
21 MR. McGILLIVRAY: That area is
22 completely full of either businesses or
23 existing homes.
24 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay. Thank you.
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 MR. RAO: Just as a follow-up, is that
2 area generally zoned industrial, commercial
3 or are there any residential areas in the
4 same vicinity like within 500 yards?
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: To the east of us,
6 there are residential homes. The Scot Forge
7 plant fronts on Belmont Avenue. Belmont
8 Avenue has businesses all along it in that
9 particular area.
10 And then once you get behind the
11 first row of businesses, typically the -- on
12 the side streets, the residential areas start
13 picking up. It's mostly single-family homes.
14 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Anything
15 further?
16 MR. CHINN: Does the plant utilize any
17 acoustical material to attenuate sound
18 emissions from the inside of the plant to the
19 outside of the plant or within the internals
20 of the plant?
21 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Specific acoustic
22 baffling, no, sir. I mean, there is
23 insulation certainly on some of the walls and
24 in some of the ceiling areas and things like
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
21
1 that, but specific acoustic baffling
2 materials, no.
3 MR. CHINN: The seventh hammer, that's
4 a new one?
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We have several of
6 our old hammers sitting out in mothballs and,
7 again, we are considering resurrecting it
8 because most of the parts that we are being
9 asked to build at that facility now are
10 larger in nature.
11 Those hammers that we have are
12 relatively smaller, so this would actually
13 match our second largest -- if we put this
14 seventh hammer in, it would match our second
15 largest hammer that we have in operation
16 currently.
17 MR. CHINN: So the seventh hammer is
18 larger than the other six?
19 MR. McGILLIVRAY: The seventh hammer
20 would be larger than five and equal in size
21 to one and smaller than our largest hammer.
22 It would be a 4000-pound drop hammer.
23 MR. CHINN: I see. Are there
24 specially designed foundations for the new
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 hammer?
2 MR. McGILLIVRAY: There would be, yes,
3 sir. It's a combination of concrete and
4 timbers that are laid in a kind of a
5 patchwork that help absorb the shocks. These
6 products that we produce on these hammers
7 are -- it's the energy of the dropping that
8 forces the hot steel into the tools that we
9 use to form the parts.
10 And so with that shock, if you
11 were on a rigid foundation, you would crack
12 that very quickly. So it's actually a very
13 specialized wood that we import to actually
14 lay in the foundation of these hammers.
15 MR. CHINN: The foundation is
16 independent and not in physical contact with
17 the floor?
18 MR. McGILLIVRAY: It is a separate
19 entity to itself.
20 MR. CHINN: Okay.
21 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Certainly, there's
22 flooring around it, but there's a direct
23 column of support underneath these hammers.
24 And the soil in that area, generally
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
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1 speaking, is clay in nature.
2 MR. CHINN: Clay?
3 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Clay, so it deadens
4 things very, very quickly.
5 MR. CHINN: Did you mention that OSHA
6 has inspected the plant?
7 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We use the Illinois
8 on-site consultation program, the
9 consultation arm of OSHA. Since I have been
10 in this position six years, OSHA has not been
11 in our facility.
12 MR. GIRARD: Who were the major
13 customers for your products?
14 MR. McGILLIVRAY: At the Franklin Park
15 plant, it is a variety of gear manufacturers.
16 You have original equipment manufacturers,
17 OEM companies that utilize a lot of the
18 parts. It's generally a heavy industry,
19 power generation-type transportation
20 industry.
21 We make a tremendous amount of
22 parts for Caterpillar, railroad companies,
23 you know, that's the gamut. We have
24 somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800 active
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
24
1 customers, and we do a tremendous amount of
2 government work in our larger facilities, so
3 we have a wide spectrum of work.
4 And that's certainly helped us in
5 the last few years. We've been able to
6 weather the storm rather well of, you know,
7 downsizing and things like that because our
8 customer base is so diverse.
9 MR. CHINN: Are any of your neighbors
10 aware of your proposal to add a seventh
11 hammer?
12 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We have not made it
13 public knowledge. Currently, it would be our
14 intention to -- you know, at this point, we
15 only have four operating crews. It's more
16 of -- not that we're going to operate seven
17 continuously at any given one time, we just
18 want to make sure that the Board understands
19 that we will have seven hammers erected at
20 any one time.
21 And if we need to, we could
22 operate seven, but typically, it takes three
23 to four people to operate a hammer if you
24 have a hammer driver and you have people that
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
25
1 are positioning the part on the dye itself.
2 And so right now we have 28 -- or
3 excuse me, we have four crews of four and
4 three kind of floating people, so you've got
5 a total of 15 personnel that could operate.
6 Again, if business continues to
7 increase, we'll continue to have to add
8 staff, and we may start operating five
9 hammers or six hammers or split some of those
10 crews and work with the floating staff as
11 well.
12 At this point, we've made no
13 proposal to the Board -- or to the Village
14 Board to erect the hammer. What we're trying
15 to do is build in some additional spaces into
16 the permit that we wouldn't have to come in
17 and alter the permit, you know, six months
18 from now.
19 MR. CHINN: Insulation of the seventh
20 hammer requires a building permit from the
21 village?
22 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to my knowledge,
23 but that is something I would certainly look
24 into. Typically, the plant manager would
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
26
1 handle that aspect of the operation.
2 MR. RAO: I was about to ask the same
3 question. Are there any other permits that
4 you need to obtain from the IEPA or --
5 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Not to our
6 knowledge. And, again, when Scot Forge took
7 over the facility, there were eight
8 operational hammers at that point, so we're
9 not even back to where the facility was
10 operating in 1992.
11 MR. RAO: Are you aware of whether,
12 you know, Hellstrom Corporation, if they had
13 any site-specific relief from the Board?
14 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I looked through
15 Section 901, and I did not see Hellstrom
16 having any site-specific relief from the
17 Board.
18 MR. STERNSTEIN: Mr. McGillivray,
19 was it Section 901.118, is that where the
20 site-specific relief is?
21 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yes, sir.
22 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay. And I'm sorry,
23 I don't have that in front of me, but you're
24 requesting that your hours of operation be
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
27
1 allowed from 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. Did the
2 former site-specific rule set the hours of
3 operation?
4 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Yes, sir.
5 MR. STERNSTEIN: What were those hours
6 of operation?
7 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I believe it was
8 6:00 to 11:00 as well.
9 MR. STERNSTEIN: 6:00 to 11:00 as
10 well.
11 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Here
12 (indicating.)
13 MR. STERNSTEIN: Thanks, Marie.
14 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Uh-huh.
15 MR. STERNSTEIN: Actually -- well,
16 wait. It says here -- I'm reading 901.118B:
17 Operate its forging hammers only between the
18 hours of 6:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m., Monday
19 through Saturday.
20 So in a sense, you would be asking
21 for additional time in the new regulation?
22 Can I show this to
23 Mr. McGillivray?
24 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Uh-huh.
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
28
1 (Mr. McGillivray perusing
2 the document.)
3 MR. McGILLIVRAY: We're asking for
4 additional time. My apologies to the Board.
5 MR. STERNSTEIN: Another couple of
6 questions: You're not asking for any
7 relief -- or site-specific relief for your
8 facility in Spring Grove?
9 MR. McGILLIVRAY: No, sir.
10 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay. Are there
11 steamdrop hammers or hydraulic drop presses
12 at your facility in Spring Grove?
13 MR. McGILLIVRAY: They are hydraulic
14 presses, they are not drop presses. They're
15 essentially silent in nature.
16 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay. So you
17 wouldn't -- the relief requested here
18 wouldn't be necessary for the Spring Grove
19 facility?
20 MR. McGILLIVRAY: No. This is
21 Franklin park only.
22 MR. STERNSTEIN: Okay.
23 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Anything
24 else?
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1 (No response.)
2 Mr. McGillivray, I would like to note
3 that Section 901.118 is not currently open in
4 this rulemaking. And what that means is
5 under the Illinois Register -- Illinois
6 Administrative Code, if we don't propose a
7 first notice of rule, we can't do anything in
8 second notice with it.
9 So at this point, quite honestly,
10 the only way that we could possibly give you
11 what you're asking for is to re-first notice
12 the rule -- or first notice that section
13 under the Administrative Procedure Act.
14 My question is if the Board were
15 to decide that your argument has some merit
16 and that we would like to see that happen, if
17 we opened another docket and proposed for
18 first notice your site-specific rule, would
19 you be willing to testify and provide
20 additional information to the Board as
21 requested to support that rule?
22 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Absolutely.
23 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: And, again,
24 I would note that at this point, the only
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
30
1 option we would have would be to start over
2 with the whole rule, start over with your
3 section or re-first notice. And quite
4 frankly, re-first notice may not be out of
5 the question at this point.
6 MR. McGILLIVRAY: Okay.
7 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Anybody
8 else?
9 (No response.)
10 Thank you very much. You've been very
11 helpful and it's been very informative.
12 MR. McGILLIVRAY: I appreciate your
13 time.
14 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Mr. Chinn,
15 Mr. Sterstein, do you have anything to add
16 today?
17 MR. CHINN: No, thank you.
18 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Before I
19 close, I do want to note that Mr. John
20 Henriksen of the Illinois Association of
21 Aggregate Producers contacted me on Friday.
22 He indicated that they had not received the
23 notice of this hearing.
24 A check of the Board's records
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
31
1 indicate that, in fact, no notice was sent to
2 the Illinois Association of Aggregate
3 Producers. I want to apologize to
4 Mr. Henriksen and the association for the
5 oversight. It has been corrected.
6 Mr. Henriksen did indicate a
7 willingness to perhaps make comments as part
8 of the public comment process if he was given
9 sufficient time; however, the Board is
10 currently examining his request and the
11 record of this proceeding and we may, in
12 fact, hold another hearing in Springfield on
13 this matter.
14 We will make that decision
15 sometime between now and when the transcript
16 of this hearing is available, and I will
17 issue a hearing officer order at that time
18 either setting the matter for an additional
19 hearing or setting the close of the public
20 comment period.
21 And I'll be in contact with you,
22 Mr. Sternstein and Mr. Chinn; you've been
23 very active. And I'll also be in contact
24 with you, Mr. McGillivray, and let you know
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
32
1 what we're doing.
2 Do you have anything else?
3 MR. GIRARD: Can we go off the record?
4 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Sure. Let's
5 go off the record.
6 THE REPORTER: Okay.
7 (Whereupon, a discussion
8 was had off the record.)
9 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: We'll go
10 back on the record.
11 Did you have anything further?
12 MR. GIRARD: No.
13 Thank you for coming. It's been
14 very informative, and we look forward to
15 carrying out the process.
16 HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD: Seeing
17 nothing further, we're adjourned. Thank you
18 very much.
19 (Whereupon, the hearing of the
20 above-entitled cause was
21 adjourned.)
22
23
24
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292
33
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
2 ) SS.
3 COUNTY OF DUPAGE )
4
5
6 I, MARIA E. SHOCKEY, CSR, do
7 hereby state that I am a court reporter doing
8 business in the City of Chicago, County of DuPage,
9 and State of Illinois; that I reported by means of
10 machine shorthand the proceedings held in the
11 foregoing cause, and that the foregoing is a true
12 and correct transcript of my shorthand notes so
13 taken as aforesaid.
14
15
16 _____________________
Maria E. Shockey, CSR
17 Notary Public,
DuPage County, Illinois
18
19 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO
before me this ___ day
20 of ________, A.D., 2004.
21
_________________________
22 Notary Public
23
24
L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292