1 BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
2
3 IN THE MATTER OF:
4 MICHAEL D. LOGSDON, DARRELL E. MANN,
RUSSELL SPILLMAN, MARILYN SPILLMAN,
5 RITA MARTIN, ALVIN W. ABBOTT, KATHY
ABBOTT, DIANA COLLINS, and DAVE COLLINS
6
Complainants,
7
vs. No. PCB 00-177
8
SOUTH FORK GUN CLUB,
9
Respondents.
10
11
12
13 The following is a transcript of the
above-entitled matter taken stenographically before ANN
14 MARIE HOLLO, CSR, RPR, RMR, a notary public within and
for the County of Montgomery and State of Illinois.
15 Said hearing was taken on the 26th day of September
A.D., 2002, commencing at 10:00 o'clock a.m. at the
16 Christian County Courthouse, County Board Room, 101 Main
Street, Taylorville, Illinois.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
1
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 APPEARANCES:
ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
2 600 South Second Street
Suite 402
3 Springfield, Illinois 62704
By: Steven C. Langhoff, Hearing Officer
4
Webber & Thies, P.C.
5 202 Lincoln Square
P.O. Box 189
6 Urbana, Illinois 61803
By: Phillip R. Van Ness, Esq.
7 Appearing on behalf of the Complainants
Rabin, Myers & Hanken, P.C.
8 1300 South Eighth Street
Springfield, Illinois 62703
9 By: Mark Rabin, Esq.
Appearing on behalf of the Respondent
10
I N D E X
11 Michael D. Logsdon Page
Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 15
12 Examination by Hearing Officer. . . . . . 32, 79
Alvin W. Abbott
13 Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 82
Kathy Abbott
14 Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 98
Darrell Mann
15 Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 105
Examination by Hearing Officer . . . . . . 127
16 Dave Collins
Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 131
17 Brett Rahar
Examination by Mr. Van Ness. . . . . . . . 149
18 E X H I B I T S
Marked Admitted
19 Complainant's Exhibit No. 1 16 16
Complainant's Exhibit No. 2 33 33
20 Complainant's Exhibit No. 3 37 38
Complainant's Exhibit No. 4 49 50
21 Complainant's Group Exhibit No. 5 54 54
Complainant's Exhibit No. 6A 58 58
22 Complainant's Exhibit No. 6B 62 81
Complainant's Exhibit Nos. 7A and 7B 81
23 Complainant's Exhibit No. 8 72 73
Complainant's Exhibit No. 10 87 88
24 Complainant's Exhibit No. 12 114 114
Complainant's Exhibit No. 13 136 136
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Good morning,
2 everyone. My name is Steven Langhoff. I'm the
3 pollution control board hearing officer who is handling
4 this matter, and we will be holding the hearing today.
5 This is PCB 00-177, Logsdon, et al. versus Southfork Gun
6 Club.
7 For the record, it is Thursday, September
8 26, 2002, and we are beginning at 10:03 a.m.
9 I want to note for the record that there
10 are several members of the public present. Members of
11 the public are encouraged and allowed to provide public
12 comment if they so choose.
13 On April 25, 2000, the complainants filed a
14 complaint alleging that the Southfork Gun Club violated
15 Section 24 of the Illinois Environmental Protection Act
16 in Sections 900.102 and 901.104 of the board's noise
17 regulations.
18 Section 24 of the Act states that no person
19 shall emit around boundaries of property any noise that
20 unreasonably interferes with the enjoyment of life or
21 with any lawful business or activity so as to violate
22 any regulation or standard adopted by the board under
23 this Act.
24 The Southfork Gun Club is located in
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 Kincaid, Christian County. The complainants allege that
2 the noise from the firing of shotguns at the gun club
3 has caused an unreasonable interference with the use and
4 enjoyment of their properties. The complainants request
5 that the board order the gun club to cease and desist
6 further violations of several laws and regulations, and
7 discontinue use of the site where the club is now
8 located.
9 I want to take a brief moment to let you
10 know what is going to happen today and after the hearing
11 today. You should know that it is the pollution control
12 board, and not me, that will make a final decision in
13 this case. My job as a hearing officer requires that I
14 conduct today's hearing in a neutral and orderly manner
15 so that the board has a clear record of the proceedings
16 here today in which to base its decision.
17 It is also my responsibility to assess the
18 credibility of any witnesses giving testimony today, and
19 I will do so on the record at the conclusion of the
20 proceedings.
21 During the course of this hearing today,
22 please feel free to call me either Mr. Langhoff or
23 Mr. Hearing Officer.
24 We will begin with opening statements from
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 the parties, and then we will proceed with the
2 complainants' case, followed by the gun club having an
3 opportunity to put on a case on its behalf. We will
4 conclude with any closing arguments that the parties
5 wish to make. And then we will discuss off the record
6 the briefing schedule, which will be set on the record
7 at the conclusion of the proceedings.
8 The board's procedural rules and the Act
9 provide that members of the public shall be allowed to
10 speak or submit written statements at the hearing. Any
11 person offering such testimony today shall be subject to
12 cross examination by both of the parties. Any such
13 statements offered by members of the public must be
14 relevant to the case at hand. I will call for any
15 statement from members of the public at the conclusion
16 of the proceedings.
17 This hearing was noticed pursuant to the
18 Act and the board's rules and regulations, and will be
19 conducted pursuant to sections 101. 600 through 101. 632
20 of the board's procedural rules.
21 Before beginning, I will caution everyone
22 that the board hearing is much the same as being in a
23 court. And everyone should act appropriately and with
24 the proper decorum towards each other.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 At this time, I'll ask that the parties to
2 make their appearances on the record beginning with the
3 complainants.
4 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
5 Officer. My name is Phillip Van Ness with the law firm
6 of Webber and Thies in Urbana, and I'm here today on
7 behalf of the complainant.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
9 Mr. Van Ness.
10 I would like to note for the record that
11 the attorney for the respondent, Gregory B. Grigsby,
12 withdrew from representation of the gun club on May 28,
13 2002.
14 Section 101.400 of the board's procedural
15 rules require that Southfork Gun Club be represented by
16 an attorney for the board, which brings us to our first
17 preliminary matter that we need to discuss on the
18 record.
19 Mr. Rabin?
20 MR. RABIN: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
21 Officer.
22 As I had informed counsel for the
23 petitioners and the hearing officer prior to the formal
24 opening of the proceedings, I have just been contacted
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 by members and officers of the Southfork Gun Club
2 seeking my help in representation of them. I'm an
3 attorney. I practice law in Springfield, Illinois.
4 Because of my schedule and the schedule of
5 some of the individuals who are contacting me, we could
6 not meet until yesterday morning. I was contacted last
7 week by phone by one of the members.
8 I am not prepared to proceed on behalf of
9 the respondent in this case. I have no pleadings, no
10 discovery. I don't know -- I know the factual issue is
11 that there's an allegation of violation of the noise
12 rules and regulations. That's all I know.
13 I am in a position where I don't know
14 anything about the case in terms of the merits of it to
15 allow me to go forward representing the respondent if
16 this matter is not continued. I am appearing at this
17 point solely for the purpose of asking for a continuance
18 to allow me to get into the case to familiarize myself
19 with it and to prepare. Absent that opportunity, I
20 cannot go forward on the merits, because I have no idea
21 what the case is about factually. I haven't had a
22 chance to interview my clients in reference to specifics
23 of any complaint and so forth.
24 And to give you an example, I mean, I have
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 just been handed this morning a reference to Illinois
2 Revised Compiled Statutes Chapter 111 and 1/2, which has
3 a provision in it for grandfathering skeet and
4 trapshooting clubs chartered prior to a particular
5 date. I only make reference to that, because I have no
6 idea whether that exception applies to the Southfork Gun
7 Club. I have not had any time to get into this.
8 So on behalf of the Southfork Gun Club -- I
9 understand that this is the eleventh hour, or
10 worse -- I'm asking that this matter be sent over to
11 give me ample time to prepare.
12 I am prepared to -- I brought my calendar
13 with me. I'm prepared to find a date that's open for
14 the hearing officer and for opposing counsel to revise
15 my schedule to meet whatever the hearing officer would
16 set, and to get ready and be ready at the next hearing.
17 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Thank
18 you, Mr. Rabin.
19 Mr. Van Ness?
20 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
21 Officer.
22 I truly have sympathy for Mr. Rabin's
23 situation. However, I have much less sympathy for the
24 defendant in this situation. As you pointed out a few
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 moments ago, the defendant discharged its previous
2 attorney in this matter back in May. That's three plus
3 months ago. They have had ample opportunity to secure
4 counsel. And the fact that they've ambushed Mr. Rabin
5 at the last minute speaks volumes about their
6 willingness to go forward with this case in my view.
7 In any event, these plaintiffs are ready to
8 go forward today. And they have spent a considerable
9 amount of their resources and their energy. They have
10 taken time off from work and all of that in order to be
11 here and present the case. They have been prepared to
12 proceed.
13 It is the defendants who are now working on
14 their third attorney. And, frankly, it does not rise to
15 the level of anything other than a self-inflicted wound
16 if their counsel is not prepared to represent them
17 today.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay.
19 MR. VAN NESS: We would oppose the motion.
20 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
21 Mr. Van Ness.
22 I want to note that in April 22, 2002, that
23 a hearing officer order of mine that the president of
24 the gun club, Mr. Binegar -- I noted in that hearing
9
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 officer note that the president of the gun club,
2 Mr. Binegar, contacted me and represented that the
3 attorney for the gun club was withdrawing from the
4 case. I noted in that hearing officer order that the
5 gun club must be represented by an attorney before the
6 board.
7 In another hearing officer order, May 20,
8 2002, I again noted that the gun club must be
9 represented by an attorney for the board.
10 And on May 28, 2002, the attorney for the
11 gun club, Mr. Greg Grigsby, withdrew.
12 I'm going to deny your motion for the
13 continuance, Mr. Rabin.
14 MR. RABIN: Okay.
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
16 MR. RABIN: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
17 Officer.
18 As I stated when I asked for the motion, I
19 am not going to take part on the hearing on the merits.
20 I'm totally unprepared to do so. And I think it would
21 be in error -- and I hate to use the word, but I think
22 it would be "malpractice" for me to try to proceed on
23 the merits of the case.
24 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I want to note,
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 Mr. Rabin, that I will be asking for the submission of
2 briefs after this case. Although I haven't come to any
3 kind of briefing schedule, of course, I had thought to
4 give the complainants 30 days to file a brief, and then
5 the gun club 30 days after that brief to file a brief.
6 That's just something you may want to consider, the gun
7 club may want to consider, where you can argue legal
8 positions and argue the weight of the evidence.
9 MR. RABIN: If I may, if the hearing
10 officer will enter that order and then serve a copy on
11 the gun club, then if they want me to review it and file
12 a brief, I'll be glad to discuss that with them and see
13 if arrangements can be made.
14 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I will add you
15 to the service list, and I'll go ahead and put that in
16 the order.
17 MR. RABIN: Thank you.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Usually I just
19 do it at the end of the transcript, but we'll go ahead
20 and get you notified and get you served.
21 MR. RABIN: I appreciate that.
22 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: No problem.
23 Thank you.
24 MR. RABIN: The members -- some of the
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1 members of the gun club are here. I'm going to ask them
2 to step out in the hallway with me and talk with me for
3 just a couple of minutes. But subject to the approval
4 of the hearing officer, I'm going to depart.
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. And in
6 fact, I will -- we'll just go off the record for about
7 three minutes so you can talk to all the members of the
8 gun club that you want to, and we'll come back in the
9 record when you come back in the room. I'll ask you to
10 come back as quickly as you can. Three or five minutes
11 please.
12 [Brief break.]
13 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: We're back on
14 the record.
15 Are there any other preliminary matters,
16 outstanding motions or pre-hearing motions that you'd
17 like to present before we proceed?
18 MR. VAN NESS: None that I'm aware of, Your
19 Honor.
20 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
21 Would the complainants like to give a brief
22 opening statement?
23 MR. VAN NESS: Yes, we would.
24 For the record, this case is, in the first
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 instance, about noise pollution. The complainants will
2 show overwhelmingly and beyond all reasonable doubt that
3 the Southfork Gun Club, an Illinois corporation, founded
4 to operate trapshooting activity on land leased from the
5 Village of Kincaid, has repeatedly and egregiously
6 violated the State of Illinois Laws and board
7 regulations thereunder against noise pollution; imposing
8 untold and unreasonable suffering upon the complainants
9 and unreasonably interfering with the enjoyment of their
10 homes.
11 Complainants will amply demonstrate that
12 this noise pollution consisted primarily of furious and
13 frequent shotgun blasts often numbering in the hundreds
14 per hour conducted only a few hundred feet from the
15 complainants' private residences, drove the complainants
16 from their yards, tortured them in their homes, denied
17 them sleep, endangered their health, endangered their
18 coworkers on the job, strained their emotions and
19 negatively impacted their families, their social life
20 and their property values.
21 But this case is also about deceit,
22 arrogance and disdain for the public welfare and the
23 welfare of their neighbors.
24 For this respondent accomplished this
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 pollution through deceit, fraud, and relies on the
2 political "Good Ole' Boy" system that deceived or
3 attempted to deceive the attorney general, the County of
4 Christian and indeed this pollution control board.
5 We are here before the board today,
6 notwithstanding that we recently obtained a permanent
7 injunction against the respondent, because that
8 "Good Ole' Boy" network threatens to once again release
9 the sounds of war on Respondent's neighbors and thumb
10 its nose at this board and the rule of law.
11 In short, Complainants will show that
12 absent the sternest monetary penalties and absolutely
13 unambiguous order from this board mandating this
14 respondent to cease and desist from emitting noise
15 pollution in any form, this respondent will not ever
16 willingly comply with the laws and regulations governing
17 noise pollution in this state.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
19 Mr. Van Ness.
20 Would you like to call your first witness
21 please.
22 MR. VAN NESS: Yes. The complainants call
23 Mr. Michael Logsdon.
24 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Mr. Logsdon, you
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 can come up right here and have a seat please.
2 [Witness sworn.]
3 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
4 MICHAEL D. LOGSDON
5 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
6 the part of the Complainants, testifies and says:
7 EXAMINATION
8 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
9 Q. Mr. Logsdon, for the record, can you state
10 your full name.
11 A. Michael D. Logsdon.
12 Q. And where do you live?
13 A. 1571 North 900 East Road, Taylorville,
14 Illinois.
15 Q. And when did you move in?
16 A. August of 1996.
17 Q. Now, could you describe the nature of the
18 area that you moved into when you moved in there?
19 A. Yes. It's a rural area. It's quite
20 pleasant. I have about an acre and a half right next to
21 the Kincaid City Lake. And it's a really beautiful area
22 there, quite peaceful; friendly neighbors.
23 Q. When you moved in, was there a home there,
24 or did you build your home?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. There was a home there.
2 Q. I see. So it had been there for some time
3 before you moved in?
4 A. Yes.
5 MR. VAN NESS: I'm going to -- this is
6 going to be a little difficult for me, but I'll produce
7 it.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Sorry.
9 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 1 was
10 marked for identification.]
11 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to hand you
12 what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit Number 1 for
13 identification.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you recognize that, sir?
16 A. Yes. It's a map of the area there by where
17 I live, including the area where I live.
18 Q. And why don't you describe generally some
19 of the features that you see there. For instance,
20 there's an irregular shape, sort of in the left center
21 of the photograph -- of the map, isn't there?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And this is labeled Lake Kincaid; is that
24 correct?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Now, are you familiar with Lake Kincaid?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. In fact, you've used it for recreational
5 purposes, haven't you?
6 A. When we first moved in there, yes.
7 Q. I see. And do you recall where you
8 obtained this map?
9 A. I believe originally I received a copy from
10 the previous owner, and I also obtained copies from the
11 county on a Freedom of Information Act.
12 Q. Under the Freedom of Information Act?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And is a portion of the map from the zoning
15 office; is that a fair statement? I mean, I assume
16 that's where you went in the county to get the map?
17 A. Yes, yes, yes.
18 Q. I'm going to hand you a blue pen, if you
19 will.
20 A. Okay.
21 MR. VAN NESS: And, first of all, let me
22 move for admission of this into evidence.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: It's admitted.
24 Exhibit 1 is admitted.
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1 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 1 was
2 admitted into evidence.]
3 MR. VAN NESS: Okay.
4 Q. Can you indicate in
5 writing -- and I will note for the record that you're
6 utilizing a blue pen, blue ink pen. Will you indicate
7 in writing on Complainant's Exhibit 1 who and what
8 occupies each of the parcels of land that are indicated
9 on that map. Let's start with the smallish parcel at
10 the lower right middle of the map. Do you see that,
11 sir?
12 A. No. I'm not sure what you mean there.
13 Q. I'm looking at the parcel that has a little
14 notch taken out of the lower left-hand side of it, and
15 it has the number 5.02 in the middle of it.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Do you recognize that, sir?
18 A. Yes, I do.
19 Q. And do you know who lives there?
20 A. Yes. I believe that is the Martin
21 residence.
22 Q. That would be Rita Martin?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. One of the complainants?
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1 A. Should I write that on the map?
2 Q. Yes, please. Write "Martin" on that
3 please.
4 A. [Witness indicated.]
5 Q. And does Rita Martin live -- does she have
6 a residence there --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. -- on that property? Okay.
9 Now, moving up from there. There's another
10 parcel that indicates 5.00 in the middle of that
11 parcel. Can you indicate whether you're familiar with
12 that property?
13 A. Yes. That's Mr. Zini's property.
14 Q. Why don't you write that name in there
15 please.
16 A. [Witness indicated.]
17 Q. Now, I see there are two parcels
18 immediately north of the Zini property; is that correct?
19 A. That's correct. One of those being
20 Mr. Abbott's, and the one behind it being mine.
21 Q. Now, why don't you label the one that
22 belongs to Mr. Abbott.
23 A. Okay.
24 Q. And for the record, is that the one that
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1 has the number 008 and then 1.50 underneath it?
2 A. Yes, that's correct.
3 Q. All right. But that would be Mr. and
4 Mrs. Abbott's property; is that correct?
5 A. Yes, that's correct.
6 Q. And you've written that in there?
7 A. Yes, I have.
8 Q. Why don't you mark now your residence or
9 your property.
10 A. All right.
11 Q. And for the record, is that not the parcel
12 that is marked 011 and then has 1.50 AC below that?
13 A. Yes, that's correct.
14 Q. I'm assuming that refers to 1.5 acres?
15 A. Yes, it does.
16 Q. Now, immediately north of your property and
17 the Abbotts' property, there is another longer piece of
18 property, is there not?
19 A. The 10 acres or --
20 Q. No, sir. I'm looking at a piece of
21 property that has .0 -- 007, rather, and 4.79 AC?
22 A. Yes. That would be the Collins' property.
23 Q. I see. Would you label that please.
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. Now, the Collins' property, there's another
2 larger piece of property. Can you describe whose
3 property that is?
4 A. That's Mr. Mann's property.
5 Q. And you're referring to Darrell Mann?
6 A. Darrell Mann who is also a complainant.
7 Q. Thank you. Would you label that please.
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And for the record, that's the parcel
10 that's indicated by a "dash" 005 and it shows 10.00
11 acres?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. Now, can you describe the property in the
14 opposite side of the Lake Kincaid from your property?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Let me call that back.
17 Why don't you describe the property across
18 the lake from you as it appeared to you when you moved
19 in, in 1996.
20 A. When I moved in, in 1996, it was -- well,
21 the property, first of all, belonged to the Village of
22 Kincaid. And there's a nice lake there, and it's all a
23 wooded area all around. And the area directly across
24 and in the center was kind of like a big park on the
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1 city property over there, an open park, not mowed very
2 often, but there for public use and stuff.
3 Q. To the best of your recollection, were
4 there any above-ground structures in place on that
5 property when you moved in?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Has the character of that property that
8 we're discussing now changed since you moved in?
9 A. Yes, absolutely.
10 Q. What was the first time you observed the
11 first of those changes?
12 A. You mean as far as activity on the
13 property, or just physical changes to the property?
14 Q. When did you notice that there was some
15 changes over there?
16 A. Well, in August in '98 towards the end of
17 August, there started to be a lot of shooting on the
18 property over there. Previous to that, it was a few
19 rabbit hunters, people squirrel hunting and stuff like
20 that in the two years previous. But like I say, towards
21 the end of August, the last couple of days of August and
22 from there on for quite some time, there was shooting on
23 almost an everyday basis on the property.
24 Q. How did you know that the shooting that was
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1 going on there was not just some more squirrel hunters
2 over there?
3 A. You could observe the people doing the
4 shooting from walking down to Mr. Collins' property.
5 There's so much shooting going on, that I walked down
6 there to see what was going on, and I also drove over
7 there and observed the shooting, too.
8 Q. Can you describe the kind of firearms that
9 were being used?
10 A. Shotguns.
11 Q. Did you observe anything else out there
12 besides shotguns?
13 A. In the line of weaponry?
14 Q. No, just in terms of any structure or
15 building.
16 A. Eventually, there was a rather large
17 building put on the property there, yes. I can't recall
18 the exact date of when the building was put there. But,
19 yes, they began construction several months later on,
20 after the shooting began of a rather large facility.
21 And then I learned that it was the property that had
22 been leased to the Southfork Gun Club, and they were
23 putting up the structure. Previously to that, myself
24 and the neighbors assumed that the village was actually
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1 putting up a structure there.
2 Q. Describe the structure. What does it look
3 like?
4 A. I don't know. I would guess it's a 20 -- I
5 don't know the exact measurements, but I would guess 24
6 by 50 or 60 foot building, with a few windows and a
7 couple of doors.
8 Q. Okay. Anything else -- was anything else
9 erected on that property?
10 A. Yeah. Eventually after a period of time,
11 there were quite a few light poles and lights installed
12 for the purpose of shooting at night.
13 Q. I see.
14 A. By the gun club.
15 Q. Can you characterize -- I'm sorry.
16 A. It lights up like a ballpark.
17 Q. Ballpark lighting?
18 A. Ballpark lighting, yes. It can be observed
19 five miles a way, four miles a way in Taylorville, in
20 the fall when the leaves are off the trees, you can
21 observe it from the Wal-Mart, which is four miles away.
22 Q. So for the record, to draw a picture for
23 the pollution control board, would these lights be
24 similar to the kind of the standards you might have at
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1 an outdoor football game?
2 A. Same as Wrigley Field.
3 Q. Okay. Do you recall when those lights were
4 put up?
5 A. They were put up over a period of time, a
6 few at a time. I don't recall the exact date when they
7 began. But at first, there was just a couple, and then
8 they added to it until there was several. I don't know
9 the exact number.
10 Q. I'm going to ask you to use this pink
11 highlighter. We're colorful today. I'm going to ask
12 you to indicate roughly on the map where the shooting
13 activity that you're referring to had taken place.
14 A. Would you like me to position the structure
15 in their line of fire?
16 Q. No. You don't have to draw that. Just
17 draw a blob, if you will, whatever turns you on, in
18 order to represent where the shooting activity took
19 place.
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. I am going to give you a red pen now.
22 We're going to have lots of fun with this. Would you
23 indicate with the red pen by a couple of straight lines
24 perhaps the general direction of gunfire as you've
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1 observed it.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Let the record show that the witness has
4 indicated with some straight lines emitting from the
5 area that he's marked with pink the direction of fire.
6 Now, using the dimensions shown on the map,
7 can you, and in your own experience, of course, as a
8 resident, can you estimate the distance from the
9 shooting area that you've indicated with the pink marker
10 to your property.
11 A. Yes. Using the 1,320 feet on here and
12 measuring to my residence, it's about -- approximately
13 600 feet to my residence, 600 to 700 feet.
14 Q. And is that to your residence or to your
15 property line?
16 A. That would be about, I would say, 600 to
17 the edge of my property, and probably another 150 feet
18 to my residence.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 A. Just guessing.
21 Q. Now, you mentioned earlier when you were
22 doing that, that you said something about 1,320 feet.
23 What were you referring to? Were you referring to a
24 marking on the map?
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1 A. Yes. I was referring to a marking on the
2 map of 1321.37, which was 1321.37 feet.
3 Q. So you were using that as a reference
4 point?
5 A. Yes, for a form of measurement.
6 Q. Do you recall when you first and how you
7 first became aware of organized activity at the area
8 you've indicated, the shooting area?
9 A. Well, after they started shooting at the
10 end of August, it was pretty regular shooting, and it
11 happened on a fairly regular basis. As far as organized
12 meets, etcetera, I'm not sure exactly when those
13 organized meets began. I am aware that the club became
14 incorporated in January of '99, about five months after
15 the shooting started in August.
16 Q. Were there any other manifestations,
17 advertisements in the newspaper or anything of that
18 sort?
19 A. Yes. They did advertise in the newspaper.
20 Q. And what kind of advertising was it?
21 A. I believe they advertised looking for
22 membership and advertised open shoots and different
23 competitive shoots, inviting people to come and shoot,
24 etcetera. And they also, after their organized shooting
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1 began, they -- I know they posted their shooting scores
2 in the newspaper on a regular basis from the different
3 members.
4 Q. Do you recall seeing any posted scores
5 previously to that?
6 A. No. I don't get the newspaper on a regular
7 basis, but some of our neighbors do, and they had made
8 me aware of the posting of the scores, etcetera.
9 Q. What was the noise like?
10 A. Miserably obnoxious.
11 Q. But in exactly what way was it miserably
12 obnoxious to you?
13 A. Well, there was -- it was so loud and
14 constant and overbearing, I mean, their shooting varied
15 at different hours. Sometimes they would start -- well,
16 they had advertisement shoots where they would start and
17 open the club at 8:30 in the morning. And, you know,
18 shooting would start thereabouts around 8:00, 8:30 when
19 they did open, and sometimes continue on until 10:00,
20 11:00, 12:00 at night. And there's no pleasure in being
21 outside with thousands of rounds of ammunition being
22 fired off 600 feet away from you. It's just
23 overwhelming.
24 Q. It was typically heavier volume of shooting
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1 at some hours than others?
2 A. Yes. It varied. When they first opened,
3 there were people coming and going. And you could tell
4 due to the limited shooting, that there was only a
5 couple of people practicing at various times.
6 And then, of course, when they had their
7 regular shoots, well, I took the meter readings and kept
8 track of the shooting, and sometimes there was as many
9 as, you know, 16 or so rounds per minute being fired off
10 for several hours at a time. They'd have intermediate
11 breaks that they would take.
12 Q. How many -- normally how many people would
13 be shooting at the heaviest time of volume? I mean, how
14 many people would be out there with firearms actually
15 discharging?
16 A. Well, I believe with the way their traps
17 were set up, there was probably maybe three or four
18 people shooting at one time. I'm not positive about
19 that, but they'd line up. We took some videos where
20 they had several people lined up shooting as the clay
21 pigeons were put out for them to shoot.
22 Q. So it was more than one or two individuals?
23 A. Yes, except during their practice.
24 Sometimes there would be one or two people -- two people
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1 coming out practicing at times.
2 Q. Did you ever have occasion to record the
3 sounds that you were hearing from the gun club?
4 A. Yes, I did. I have a tape in my tape
5 player, I believe.
6 Q. Do you have a tape in your tape player?
7 A. Yes, correct.
8 Q. For the record, I'm holding a small
9 personal tape player that holds a mini-sized tape. And
10 is it your testimony that this tape was used by you in
11 order to record the sounds coming from the gun club?
12 A. Yes, yes.
13 Q. Do you recall the circumstances under which
14 those sounds were recorded?
15 A. I believe it was after it was requested by
16 you to record those.
17 Q. Roughly what year?
18 A. I believe those were made in 2000, if I
19 remember correctly. I'd have to look at my notes.
20 Q. Does it say -- do you say on the tape when
21 these shots were taken?
22 A. I believe I do. On one of my tapes, not
23 knowing that it would be drawn out for so many years, I
24 believe I left the year out and just give -- stated the
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 date, month.
2 Q. On this particular tape, though, sir, this
3 tape in this machine, do you recall what date that was?
4 A. I'd have to --
5 Q. Roughly.
6 A. -- look at it and see.
7 Q. Okay. Let me hand it to you.
8 A. Thanks.
9 MR. VAN NESS: Mr. Hearing Officer, I have
10 a label for it, that we can put on it.
11 THE WITNESS: Okay. This tape was taped
12 while I was using the meter. I believe I do have the
13 date on here.
14 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Okay. It would be on
15 the audio portion of the tape?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Did you record that particular tape -- go
18 ahead and put it back in the machine if you want. Did
19 you record that tape on that machine?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. So did you do anything with that machine to
22 increase the volume so that the noise would appear
23 louder than it would normally?
24 A. No, absolutely not. It's a normal
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1 recording.
2 MR. VAN NESS: Mr. Hearing Officer, I'd
3 move the acceptance of that tape into evidence as
4 Complainant's Exhibit 2 for identification, and for
5 admission. And I have a label for that, that we can put
6 on it after we play it.
7 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I have one
8 question before we admit it.
9 EXAMINATION
10 QUESTIONS BY HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF:
11 Q. And that is, you took that standing on your
12 property?
13 A. Yes. Well, actually, I have a picnic table
14 off of my back porch. And I took my sound meter
15 readings from there. And I have read the documentation
16 from the pollution control board on being at least 25
17 feet away from any structures and stuff. So I moved out
18 away, onto the picnic table in the middle of my back
19 yard.
20 Q. In between the property line and your
21 house?
22 A. Yes.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I'll admit
24 Exhibit Number 2.
32
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 2 was
2 marked and admitted into evidence.]
3 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
4 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Did you want to
5 play just a little bit of it?
6 MR. VAN NESS: I'd just like a minute or
7 two.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay.
9 MR. VAN NESS: From our understanding from
10 last week, we are not going to play the entire tape.
11 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: No. Thank you.
12 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) So if you would, sir,
13 just go ahead and play it.
14 A. I did some narrating on here. I could just
15 fast-forward it to just shooting.
16 Q. Why don't you just fast-forward to the
17 shooting. And indicate, if you will, your marker
18 setting when you start to play and fast-forward it.
19 A. Okay.
20 Q. What's the meter reading, sir? Oh, still
21 talking?
22 A. It's talking.
23 Q. What's the meter reading, sir?
24 A. Excuse me?
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1 Q. What's the --
2 A. The meter is reading?
3 Q. The tape counter.
4 THE WITNESS: Could you help me there,
5 Mr. Langhoff? I don't have my reading glasses.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Yes. 038.
7 MR. VAN NESS: Okay. Thank you. Go
8 ahead.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Why don't you
10 just play it for 30, 15 seconds, whatever you're
11 comfortable with.
12 [Listening to the audio tape.]
13 MR. VAN NESS: That's fine.
14 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And what's
15 the -- I'm sorry. May I have the tape please?
16 And for the record, we ended on 044. Thank
17 you. Are you finished with that?
18 MR. VAN NESS: I'm finding my place,
19 Mr. Hearing Officer.
20 Q. I was going to ask you, and
21 then I will -- even though you've already responded to
22 the hearing officer, if you would be so kind as to mark
23 where you were standing when you took that recording.
24 A. On the map?
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1 Q. Go ahead and use the red pen and just mark
2 that.
3 A. Okay. I've indicated the "X" is the
4 approximation of where my picnic table was where I took
5 the readings.
6 Q. Okay, thank you. Now, did you have
7 occasion to measure the sound levels of the noise that
8 you heard coming from the gun club?
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. And how did you do that?
11 A. I purchased a analog sound meter from Radio
12 Shack and took readings with that and wrote them down.
13 Q. Did you make a record of those readings?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Why don't you describe your methodology,
16 the methodology that you used to make those readings.
17 A. Well, I went -- when I took the meter
18 readings, I had read the instructions from the pollution
19 control board after communicating with them about how
20 far to take the readings. I had also spoke with a
21 Mr. Greg Zak with the EPA, who is a noise specialist,
22 and he was helpful in telling me how to take the
23 readings and stuff and get proper readings.
24 And so I would take the meter, sit on my
35
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 picnic table, and jot it down while taking the
2 readings. After setting the meter where it was -- the
3 needle was bouncing in the middle at the range where
4 they're shooting at the noise level.
5 Having read the instructions that also come
6 with the meter, and as I recall, I took it -- there's
7 two different types of settings on the meter, I believe,
8 and I had taken it both ways. I believe there's a fast
9 and a slow setting, if I remember correctly, or fast
10 response.
11 Q. Well, here. Here's the meter itself.
12 A. Yes. There's the fast and slow, and then
13 there's the A, C weighting. And I believe when I took
14 those readings, I took them both ways and recorded
15 those.
16 Q. And when you changed the way you were
17 recording, in other words, when you said from fast to
18 slow or from A to C, did you indicate that on your
19 notes?
20 A. I believe I did.
21 Q. You're not sure?
22 A. I'm not sure.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. I'm not sure. I did notice that the only
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 difference between the fast and the slow was actually
2 the response of the needle while I took the readings.
3 That if it was on slow, the needle responded running
4 back down to it at a slower pace. And when it was on
5 fast -- when it became necessary to have it on fast to
6 take the readings is when they were shooting one shot
7 after another in order to get a correct reading.
8 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 3 was
9 marked for identification.]
10 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to hand you
11 what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit Number 3 for
12 identification and ask if you recognize that.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Would you describe it.
15 A. Excuse me?
16 Q. Is that not in fact the record of the sound
17 meter readings that you mentioned previously?
18 A. Yes.
19 MR. VAN NESS: I move for admission,
20 Mr. Hearing Officer. I have the original. Do you want
21 the original? I can give you the original. I just have
22 a photocopy. I figured that would be easier.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I'll admit it.
24 Exhibit 3 is admitted for the record.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 3 was
2 admitted into evidence.]
3 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to ask you to
4 look at the first page of what's been marked now as
5 Complainant's Exhibit 3, and ask you if you can explain
6 to me the entries that you've placed there.
7 A. Yes. I wrote down the time that shooting
8 was occurring. First I wrote it down at 1:30 p.m. And
9 that there was during that approximate minute there,
10 there was one, two, three, four, five, six, seven shots
11 fired, and the meter reading that was put out at 72 DB,
12 72, 72, 77, 72 and 72.
13 Q. So the numbers reflect the decibel readings
14 that you record?
15 A. The decibel readings on the meter I was
16 using, correct.
17 Q. Before we get to that, did you not indicate
18 the date at the top of that sheet?
19 A. Yes, I did. It was May 30th of 2000.
20 Q. And that was the date upon which these
21 readings were taken?
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. Now, there's an entry also on the upper
24 right-hand corner on the page?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Would you read that into the record
3 please.
4 A. Recorded at Collins' residence.
5 Q. And would you indicate please where you
6 were standing when you were taking these readings.
7 A. I was at the edge of Mr. Collins' property
8 facing towards the gun club.
9 Q. Why don't you use your red pen again and
10 indicate on Mr. Collins' property where you were
11 standing.
12 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Use the blue
13 pen, Mr. Logsdon, and just write a little "X" where you
14 were, just like you did with the red pen on your
15 property, except now you're on Mr. Collins' property.
16 THE WITNESS: All right. I've indicated
17 with a blue "X" approximately where I was at.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
19 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Okay. Now, let's skip
20 around. I see an entry for several minutes running
21 between 1:30 p.m. and 1:39 p.m.; is that correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Why don't we look at the readings for 1:39
24 p.m. Can you describe those for the record please?
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1 A. Yes. I was taking the readings one minute
2 at a time and recorded how many shots were fired. And
3 at 1:39, during that one minute, there were one, two,
4 three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven
5 rounds fired that I could hear. And recorded from the
6 meter at 70, 68, 72, 72, 70, 70, 70, 68, and 72, 68
7 decibels according to the meter I used.
8 Q. Now, turn to the second page of Exhibit 3.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Mr. Van Ness --
10 MR. VAN NESS: Yes?
11 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: -- will you
12 approach? I want to go off the record for just a
13 second.
14 [Off-the-record discussion.]
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Back on the
16 record. Thank you.
17 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Mr. Logsdon, I see
18 readings also on the second page, do I not?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. And you've indicated on that second page
21 midway down the page on the left side, it says
22 A weighting fast response?
23 A. Correct. That was the setting that I used
24 on the sound meter.
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1 Q. To what readings on this page does the
2 A weighting fast response refer?
3 A. All the readings on this page.
4 Q. Including the one under 7:15? At 7:15
5 p.m.?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. All of the readings on this page were taken
8 on A weighting fast response basis?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. Now, were these readings on the second page
11 taken at the same location as the readings on the first
12 page?
13 A. No, they were not. These were taken from
14 the picnic table off of my back porch.
15 Q. And that is signified at the top of the
16 page, is it not?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Would you read that into the record
19 please.
20 A. "Radio Shack analog sound level meter
21 readings taken from Logsdon back porch."
22 Q. So now from the time you've taken the
23 readings at the Collins' residence property, you had
24 moved over to your own back porch area?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Yes. It was about five or six hours later,
2 five hours later, yes.
3 Q. Is it your testimony that you were still 25
4 feet away from the structure?
5 A. Yes. I was on the picnic table.
6 Q. Now, I see some of these readings range
7 from the very low 70s -- I don't see any 60 readings
8 here -- to the upper 60s. I'm sorry. Upper 70s.
9 A. Yes, that's correct.
10 Q. And I'll ask you whether in the course of
11 taking those readings, you had to adjust the setting on
12 your sound meter in order to get an accurate reading?
13 A. Yes. In order to read the meter of
14 anything below 70 for instance, if the needle was to
15 drop down to the negative 10, you'd have to reset it
16 down to 60 in order to get a correct reading. If it
17 read between -- if it was set on 70 and it read plus 2,
18 then of course it was 72 decibels. If it read minus 2,
19 then that would have made it 68.
20 Q. If the sound was consistently down to the
21 60s, would you have had to move the dial?
22 A. Yes. You'd have to reset -- if it was
23 consistently in the 60s, you would set it on 60, and
24 then it would show what range in the 60s above the zero
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 mark that they were shooting at. And then if it dropped
2 below, then of course it was in the 50 range, which that
3 didn't happen.
4 Q. I think that's all I'll ask you about
5 that. Thank you.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And while we
7 have a second, may I have the meter please?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
10 For the record, this is Radio Shack sound
11 level meter, and on the back it's listed as catalogue
12 number 33-2050. And I'm sure the board is very familiar
13 with this kind of Radio Shack meter. I've seen it
14 several times myself in hearings. Okay.
15 MR. VAN NESS: We were going to put that
16 in, but thank you for doing it for us.
17 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
18 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Let's go in a little bit
19 different direction now.
20 What effect has the shooting activity that
21 you've recorded that you've told us about had on the
22 quality of your life?
23 A. It's changed it quite a bit. Like I said,
24 the first couple of years I moved there, it was a lovely
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1 place. It was quiet. Good fishing in the lake, enjoyed
2 being outside, picnicking and such. And after the
3 shooting started, and the more constant it was on a
4 daily basis, the more miserable I became. There's no
5 enjoyment outside.
6 The constant -- like I said, sometimes it
7 started at 8:00 in the morning and shoot until midnight,
8 and there's no resting.
9 You know, and they advertise these shoots
10 that started at 8 o'clock in the morning or 8:30 in the
11 morning. And they would invite all kinds of people to
12 come throughout the day. And people would come and go
13 constantly. And so there was a range of shooting. I
14 doubt very much that anyone there shot from 8:30 in the
15 morning until midnight. I doubt if they could hold a
16 shotgun that long, but the people come and go
17 constantly.
18 For instance, we recently had a barbecue at
19 Mr. Mann's house. I was speaking to a young lady that
20 shot at the club, and she said that they would come out,
21 her and her husband, and they would shoot their, I
22 believe, 50 rounds, or something like that, however many
23 they shoot, and then they'd leave, you know. And that's
24 how -- people were coming and going constantly, and
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 there was no joy.
2 When they first started, I went over there
3 on one occasion. My children were out fishing in a boat
4 and come running up through the yard. "Dad, Dad, Dad,
5 they're shooting at us." I said, "What do you mean
6 they're shooting at you?" Well, "A buckshot landed on
7 us in the boat." I said, "Well, I don't think they were
8 shooting at you, but I'll go talk to them."
9 And I went over there, and there were just
10 four gentlemen there. And I asked them, and they were
11 just using a small hand trap thing that they were
12 loading up and cocking it by hand. And I asked them to
13 please not shoot in the direction of the lake because
14 the kids were out there fishing. And they said, you
15 know, that they didn't think they shot that way, but
16 that they'd be sure they didn't.
17 And so that was my first encounter,
18 actually, with anyone at the club is those gentlemen. I
19 don't know who they were. They were polite about it.
20 This was before there was any structure there or
21 anything. Once the structure was up, and the daily
22 shoots or regular shooting started on a daily basis,
23 there was just no peace or enjoyment in my life.
24 I retired from the railroad in '96 and
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1 bought the -- my log home there for the purpose of
2 retirement and enjoying the fishing and the outdoors
3 there, and all that was taken away from me.
4 Q. When you -- strike that.
5 Has the noise coming from the gun club
6 affected your sleep?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. In what way?
9 A. When they're shooting, you can't sleep.
10 Q. You can hear the sounds inside your home?
11 A. Absolutely.
12 Q. To the best of your knowledge, is the noise
13 coming from the gun club area affected your physical
14 health?
15 A. Yes. A lack of sleep. The whole situation
16 has been so overwhelming with the way it's been handled
17 through the course in the last couple of years since I
18 first wrote a letter, and I think it was November of
19 2000. I think I wrote a letter to the village and stuff
20 and to the county and several other people. As I
21 recall, I sent copies, you know, trying to work
22 something out with them as far as controlling the hours
23 of the shooting and stuff. And, of course, there was
24 just no response from anyone in regards to that. So
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 then we pursued the legal courses that we've taken. I
2 got in touch with the EPA.
3 Q. You're getting a little afield with my
4 question.
5 A. I'm sorry.
6 Q. But that's fine. Would you have an opinion
7 as to whether the noise has affected your emotional
8 health?
9 A. Yes, it has.
10 Q. In what way?
11 A. In quite a few ways. Since all this began,
12 I do my -- I have my medical provided by the Illinois
13 Veterans Department of Veterans Affairs, and I've been
14 on antidepressants, anxiety medication. The whole
15 situation has just been constantly overwhelming.
16 And at one stage, you think you've got it
17 solved and everything is over with. For instance, a
18 temporary injunction. We got a little peace. And even
19 after that, there was the anticipation of shooting and
20 stuff.
21 And then to get a permanent injunction, and
22 then you think you've got it solved. And then here we
23 are going at it again with filing for reconsideration on
24 what's already been determined to be illegal and stuff.
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1 And it's just a constant mental strain and stress of
2 having to deal with it.
3 Q. Now, when I'm asking about mental stress,
4 I'm specifically asking about any stress occasioned by
5 the noise itself.
6 A. Oh, the noise is overwhelming. The kids
7 couldn't play in the yard. They weren't safe out in the
8 boat. I can't put it into words.
9 Q. Thank you. When the shooting started, did
10 you and or your neighbors take any action?
11 A. Yeah. I wrote a letter -- that was my
12 first course of action -- I believe to the gun club and
13 the village. I'm not sure I addressed it to both of
14 them. I think I did.
15 And, you know, I asked them if we could
16 work something out in regard to their hours and stuff
17 and the shooting, and tell them how bothersome it was
18 and that. I just handwrote a letter and I had several
19 of the neighbors sign it. You know, they were in
20 agreement with me that something needed to be done at
21 that point.
22 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 4 was
23 marked for identification.]
24 MR. VAN NESS: I'm going to show you
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1 what's been marked -- it's marked Claimant's Exhibit 4.
2 But, Mr. Hearing Officer, the label is on
3 the last page for obvious reasons. The writing on the
4 first page would be covered up in part if the label were
5 placed there.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay.
7 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Do you recognize that,
8 sir?
9 A. Yes, I do. It's the letter I wrote
10 November of '99. That was before they became
11 incorporated and stuff. It was after they started
12 shooting in August, and they'd been shooting for
13 the -- well, at that time, the four months or
14 three -- actually closer to three months. September,
15 October, August.
16 Q. That is a letter that you referred to that
17 you wrote?
18 A. Yes, it is.
19 Q. And that is the letter that you referred to
20 that you and other individuals signed; is that correct?
21 A. Yes, several individuals that lived around
22 signed it, yes.
23 MR. VAN NESS: Mr. Hearing Officer, I'd
24 move for admission of Exhibit 4.
49
KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 4 is
2 admitted.
3 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 4 was
4 admitted into evidence.]
5 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Do you have the date of
6 that letter?
7 A. November 8th of 1999.
8 Q. Can you identify those other individuals
9 that were referred to a moment ago that signed the
10 letter together with you on the same page?
11 A. Before I proceed, I'd like to correct
12 myself. They started shooting in August of '98. So
13 this letter wrote in '99 would have been a year and two
14 months into the shooting.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 A. Yes. Question again please?
17 Q. Just if you would identify, if you will,
18 the individuals who also signed that sheet of paper.
19 A. Yes. Timothy Zini, Darrell Mann, Kathy
20 Mann, Alvin Abbott, Buddy Gismey (sp), Dave Collins,
21 Diane Collins, Jim Wicker, Rita Martin and Kathy Abbott.
22 Q. Who are those individuals?
23 A. Neighbors.
24 Q. They all live in an area depicted on the
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1 map?
2 A. I don't -- I am not familiar with the
3 Mr. Jim Wicker. I believe Alvin might
4 have -- Mr. Abbott might have had him sign that.
5 Q. All right. And we'll ask Mr. Abbott when
6 we get to him. Can you tell me how the village and the
7 gun club responded to your letter of complaint?
8 A. They didn't.
9 Q. There was no response at all?
10 A. No.
11 Q. You received no correspondence from them?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you receive a phone call from them?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Now, when you didn't receive any response
16 from the city and the village, what did you do?
17 A. That's when I believe I got in touch with
18 Mr. Zak, Greg Zak with the EPA. He's a pollution
19 control specialist. And he recommended that I take up
20 the matter, and he provided me with the information and
21 phone numbers and stuff and some charts on sound, and
22 suggested that I write a letter to the pollution control
23 board and request a hearing. So I pursued that avenue.
24 Q. Did you pursue any other avenues?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Yes. Actually, eventually we came to talk
2 to you about the situation.
3 Q. I see. Did you know -- but I mean, in
4 regard to any other governmental official, did you refer
5 to anyone else?
6 A. Yes, I did. I actually contacted the
7 state's attorney at that time, Theresa Phillips. And
8 she responded with a letter saying that she wouldn't
9 pursue anything, and referred me to the attorney
10 general's office in Springfield to a Mr. Tom Davis. I
11 believe he's the chief of the environmental bureau with
12 the attorney general's office.
13 And upon being referred to him, I called.
14 And the state's attorney here, Theresa Phillips, had
15 given me his phone number to call him. And she had
16 stated, I believe, in her letter that she spoke with
17 him. So I called and he agreed to assist. And Mr. Mann
18 and myself went to Mr. Davis's office and met with him.
19 And there was a Ms. Debbie -- Deborah
20 Barnes, who was also an assistant to the attorney
21 general. And we discussed the zoning issues and the
22 shooting, and presented all that to them.
23 And then their response was -- they wrote a
24 letter, I believe, to the gun club and to the village.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 I know for sure to the village. I don't know about to
2 the gun club, but for sure to the village, stating that
3 it appeared that they were in violation of the zoning,
4 and they should correct the matter so that to avoid the
5 attorney general pursuing the legal courses of action
6 against them.
7 Q. How do you know that Mr. Davis sent a
8 letter to the gun club and the village?
9 A. I received copies of that from Mr. Davis.
10 Q. I see. Do you know whether the gun club or
11 the village responded to the attorney general?
12 A. Yes, they did. Their attorney, Mr. Fines,
13 and, obviously, I believe they did write the gun club
14 also, because Mr. DePaepe at that time was the gun club
15 attorney. And he wrote a response to the inquiry by
16 Mr. Davis in regards to it.
17 Q. And, again, how do you know that?
18 A. Because I received copies of the letter.
19 Q. I see. You received those copies from
20 Mr. Davis?
21 A. From Mr. Davis's office, yes.
22 [Complainant's Group Exhibit Number 5
23 was marked for identification.]
24 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to show you
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 what's been marked Complainant's Group Exhibit 5 for
2 identification. May I ask if you recognize those
3 documents?
4 A. Yes, I do. This was the explanation given
5 to Mr. Davis by Mr. DePaepe, the attorney for the gun
6 club.
7 MR. VAN NESS: I move to admit, Mr. Hearing
8 Officer.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: So admitted.
10 [Complainant's Group Exhibit Number 5
11 was admitted into evidence.]
12 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to ask you to
13 look at the first document, which happens to be -- at
14 the back, Group Exhibit 5. What's the date of that
15 document? At the back of Group Exhibit 5.
16 A. April 6th of 2000.
17 Q. And who is the author of that letter?
18 A. The author of the letter?
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. It is Mr. Fines.
21 Q. And Mr. Fines is?
22 A. He is the Village of Kincaid's attorney.
23 Q. I see. Would you read the third sentence
24 of that letter in the record please.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Beginning with "per my conversation"; is
2 that correct?
3 Q. Yes.
4 A. "Per my conversation with Mr. DePaepe on
5 April 3, 2000, it is my understanding that he will be
6 supplying me with information confirming the fact that
7 the Southfork Gun Club has been a chartered organization
8 in good standing far before January 1, 1994."
9 Q. Thank you.
10 A. You're welcome.
11 Q. I'm going to ask you to look at the second
12 document, which is actually the document on top, and ask
13 you to describe that for me please.
14 A. You're speaking of the letter of April 19,
15 2000?
16 Q. And to whom is that written?
17 A. It's wrote to Mr. Davis from Mr. DePaepe.
18 Q. And Mr. DePaepe was?
19 A. He was the attorney for Southfork Gun Club
20 at the time, I believe.
21 Q. Now, I need to back up for a second.
22 The first letter that you read a portion
23 of, who was that addressed to? I asked you who the
24 author was, but I didn't ask you who it was addressed
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 to.
2 A. It's addressed to Mr. Thomas Davis, the
3 chief of the environmental bureau at the attorney
4 general's office.
5 Q. So both letters were addressed to
6 Mr. Davis, one from the attorney for the village and one
7 from the attorney for the gun club?
8 A. Yes, they were.
9 Q. All right. I'm going to ask you to read
10 the first two sentences of the second paragraph of the
11 letter from Mr. DePaepe.
12 A. "First, you state that the relevant inquiry
13 is whether the Southfork Gun Club was an operator of a
14 firearm range on January 1, 1994. My response is that
15 this fact is undisputed."
16 Q. Thank you. Would you agree that in each
17 case, counsel for the gun club is asserting or appears
18 to be asserting the gun club was in existence in 1994?
19 A. Yes. That's what they are saying there.
20 Q. Did you not also file a complaint against
21 the gun club with the pollution control board around
22 this time?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 Q. Did the gun club respond to your pollution
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 control board complaint also?
2 A. Yes. It was rather strange how I found out
3 about the response. Because myself and Mr. Mann and
4 Mr. Abbott had delivered papers that I filled out from
5 the pollution control board to the gun club one day when
6 they were shooting, and we also mailed by certified mail
7 a copy to the president of their gun club. However, he
8 didn't pick it up. I got it back from the post office
9 after several weeks and as being not delivered.
10 And when I called and spoke to the clerk of
11 the board in regards to my papers and stuff, that's when
12 I was informed that the gun club had already responded
13 and had asked for it to be dismissed, I believe, for
14 being duplicitous and frivolous, or something like
15 that. And I responded to that myself.
16 Q. Did you have an opportunity to read the
17 response that was provided to the board by the gun club?
18 A. I believe I did.
19 [Complainant's Group Exhibit Number 6A
20 was marked for identification.]
21 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Well, I'm going to hand
22 you what's been marked as Complainant's Group Exhibit 6A
23 for identification, and ask you if you recognize that
24 document.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Yes. Yeah, I recognize all of these
2 documents.
3 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And I believe I
4 do, too. Is that already part of the record?
5 MR. VAN NESS: That is already part of the
6 record, Mr. Hearing Officer, it being the respondent's
7 motion to dismiss and an attachment thereto.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
9 MR. VAN NESS: Well, first of all, I'll
10 move it into evidence, if necessary.
11 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: It will be
12 admitted.
13 [Complainant's Group Exhibit Number 6A
14 was admitted into evidence.]
15 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to ask you to
16 look at the second of the two cover letters. Do you see
17 that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What's the date of that letter please?
20 A. April 10th of 2000.
21 Q. I see. And that is on the letterhead
22 stationary, is it not?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And could you describe the letterhead that
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 it's on?
2 A. It's the Law Office of DePaepe and Davison.
3 Q. I see. Mr. DePaepe you indicated
4 previously was the attorney for the gun club?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to read the
7 second and third paragraphs of that letter into the
8 record.
9 A. "There are two reasons for immunity."
10 Q. No, I'm sorry. The second and third.
11 A. I'm sorry?
12 Q. The second and third.
13 A. The second paragraph? I apologize.
14 "It is the position of Southfork Gun Club,
15 Incorporated, which is in fact engaged in trapshooting
16 activity in the southwest quarter of the southeast
17 quarter of the northeast quarter of Section 13, Township
18 13 N, Range 2, west of the third principal meridian in
19 Christian County, Illinois; that the complaint should be
20 dismissed and the pollution control board lacks
21 jurisdiction as a result of the grant of immunity
22 applicable to the club under the Illinois Premises
23 Liability Act 740 IL CD 130/5.
24 There are two reasons for immunity. First,
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 the club was issued articles of incorporation and was in
2 existence as far back as 1968, as evidenced by the
3 attached articles of corporation, issued by the Illinois
4 Secretary of State. Attached is a statement from the
5 Secretary of State, dated January 5, 1999, indicating
6 that the club exists as a legally recognized entity.
7 According to the Premises Liability Act,
8 Section 5B, immunity applies to the owner or operator of
9 a firearm range in existence on January 1, 1994."
10 Q. Would you agree that in this letter from
11 the counsel for the gun club is once again implicitly
12 asserting that the gun club was in existence in 1994?
13 A. I agree that that's what he's saying, but I
14 disagree with the facts.
15 Q. While you were still representing the
16 complainants on this case, did you conduct an
17 investigation of that assertion?
18 A. Yes, I did. I served the Freedom of
19 Information Act and gathered all the information that I
20 possibly could in regards to the club. I also
21 communicated with the secretary of state's office,
22 Mr. Maurice Ogden, and spoke with him in regards to
23 their corporation.
24 And at first he informed me that they
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 weren't on the record. And then he did some more
2 research and come up with the fact that they were
3 involuntarily dissolved, I believe, in 1981.
4 Q. Do you recall whether the state's
5 attorney's office -- I'm sorry, the secretary of state's
6 office had provided you any document to reflect that
7 fact?
8 A. Actually, yes. First, the information -- I
9 had spoke with Sheriff Kindermann in regards to the
10 noise issue and stuff for several days. For a period
11 there, we spoke on almost a daily basis. And he,
12 himself, called the secretary of state's office and
13 obtained a copy of the dissolving -- involuntary
14 dissolving of the gun club, and ordered certified copies
15 of that. He provided me a copy, and I also got a copy
16 myself from the secretary of state's office
17 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 6B was
18 marked for identification.]
19 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to hand you
20 what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit 6B for
21 identification.
22 And, Mr. Hearing Officer, by way of
23 inclination, I decided to break this larger bunch into
24 two parts so that we have a 6A and a 6B.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 So I ask you to look at the Complainant's
2 Exhibit 6B and ask you if you recognize this as one of
3 the documents, as the document -- one of the documents
4 you received? I'll get it straight.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. From the secretary of state's office?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Can you describe that for the record
9 please?
10 A. Yes.
11 It states, "Whereas it appears that
12 Southfork Gun Club, being a corporation under the laws
13 of the State of Illinois, relating to domestic
14 corporations, has failed to file an annual report as
15 required by the provisions of Not For Profit Corporation
16 Act of the State of Illinois in force January 1, A.D.
17 1944; and all acts mandatory thereof in whereas said Act
18 provides that upon failure to file an annual report, the
19 secretary of state shall dissolve the corporation
20 pursuant to Section 50A effective July 1, 1974.
21 Now, therefore, I, Jim Edgar, Secretary of
22 State of the State of Illinois, hereby dissolve the
23 aforesaid Southfork Gun Club in pursuance of the
24 provisions of the Act."
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 Q. What's the date at the bottom of that?
2 A. First day of July 1981.
3 Q. Thank you. I want you to briefly look at
4 the back side of that document. Do you see a stamp
5 there in writing?
6 A. There's a certification and there's also an
7 expedited secretary of state, June 2, 2000, and then it
8 states expressed and copy of certification fee.
9 Q. Thank you. With respect to the other
10 documents that you may have received from the secretary
11 of state's office, did you observe or obtain or receive
12 any documentation at all that suggested that the
13 Southfork Gun Club corporation existed after July 1,
14 1981 and prior to January 5, 1999?
15 A. No, they didn't exist.
16 Q. Okay. There was nothing in there that
17 indicated that the corporation had been reinstated prior
18 to January?
19 A. Not during that period of time.
20 Q. Thank you. Now, in the course of
21 representing the plaintiffs, did you inquire as to
22 whether the gun club had obtained zoning permission to
23 operate the trapshoot facility in the County of
24 Christian?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. Yes, sir. I served the Freedom of
2 Information Act on the county zoning officer, Mr. Rahar,
3 or Ra-har (phonetic). I'm not sure how to pronounce it,
4 but I did receive copies from his files.
5 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 7 was
6 marked for identification.]
7 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I see. I'm going to ask
8 you to look at what's been marked as Complainant's
9 Exhibit 7A. And I'm going to ask you if that is not in
10 fact the documents that you received from the county.
11 A. Yes, it is one of the documents that I
12 received.
13 Q. Would you read the third paragraph of the
14 application.
15 A. That being, begins with "that the zoning
16 law enforces"?
17 Q. Beginning with, let's say, beginning with
18 that Petitioner would like to --
19 A. "Petitioner states that the aforesaid real
20 estate"?
21 Q. "Now that Petitioner would like to" --
22 A. Oh, could you please point that out to me
23 here, sir? It's in the middle of the page, sir?
24 "That the petitioner would like to use
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 said land for trapshoot purposes."
2 Q. Thank you. That's fine.
3 A. Okay.
4 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to skip down to
5 the bottom of the page. Do you see where "Petitioner
6 prays for relief"? After the "wherefore"?
7 A. Yes. That the board supervisor will grant
8 petitioner's permit from AG1 district to special use and
9 parenthesis (33.055.) It's hardly legible. Private
10 pistol or rifle ranges.
11 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with the
12 Special Use Zoning Ordinance for Christian County that
13 was in existence in 1968?
14 A. Yes, I am.
15 Q. And how did that come to be?
16 A. Well, I obtained a copy from Mr. Rahar's
17 office of the zoning that was in effect at that time.
18 And I looked into the section in regards to special use
19 permits. And I looked up the ordinance applications
20 that they had used here. And the 33.055 actually in
21 their ordinance, the Christian County ordinance book,
22 referred to artificial lakes. And then there was
23 another numerical heading for private pistol or rifle
24 ranges, which was not on this document, even though they
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 wrote it in.
2 And then also in the zoning, was an
3 application, of which no numerical application was put
4 down here, but refers to skeet and trapshoot if not
5 closer than 1,320 feet from a residence or farm group.
6 MR. VAN NESS: I'm going to move for
7 admission of Complainant's Exhibit 7A being the 1968
8 application of the gun club for the special use
9 variance.
10 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 7A is
11 admitted.
12 [Complainant's Exhibit 7A was admitted
13 into evidence.]
14 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to hand you
15 what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit 7B for
16 identification, and ask you if that is not in fact the
17 zoning ordinance for Christian County to which you've
18 just referred.
19 A. Yes. This was one that was in effect at
20 this time in '68.
21 Q. And how do you know that, sir?
22 A. According to Mr. Rahar, and then I believe
23 the document is dated.
24 Q. I see. I'm going to ask you to turn to
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1 section 33 of the ordinance, section 33 of the
2 ordinance, sir. And I am going to ask you to read the
3 heading of that section. I believe you'll find it on
4 page 20.
5 A. Yes. Section 33 states special uses in the
6 AG1 agricultural district, and parenthesis, (a public
7 hearing required).
8 Q. And following that section 33, are there
9 not a number of subsections, 33.01, etcetera, etcetera?
10 A. Yes, there are.
11 Q. And does not each one of those subsections
12 refer to a different kind of activity?
13 A. Yes, they do.
14 Q. Following up on what you stated earlier,
15 would you read into the record please what section
16 33.055 refers to being -- I'm sorry. Just go ahead.
17 A. Lakes, in parenthesis, artificial over
18 three acres.
19 Q. I asked you whether in fact Southfork Gun
20 Club has installed a artificial lake over three acres on
21 the gun club property?
22 A. Not to my knowledge.
23 Q. I'm going to ask you to find a section in
24 the ordinance that relates to private pistol or rifle
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 ranges. What is the number of that section?
2 A. The proper number on that would be 33.061.
3 Q. And what page do you find that on, sir?
4 A. I find that on page 23.
5 Q. And what does 33.061 say?
6 A. Private pistol or rifle ranges.
7 Q. And, now, I'm going to ask you whether, to
8 the best of your knowledge, has Southfork Gun Club
9 installed a private pistol and rifle range on the site?
10 A. Not to my knowledge.
11 Q. Have you ever seen anyone discharging a
12 rifle instead of a shotgun there as part of the
13 activities out there?
14 A. Personally, no, I have not personally.
15 Q. Thank you. Now, I'm going to ask you to
16 find the section of the ordinance that actually relates
17 to skeet or trapshooting?
18 A. That would be section 33.071.
19 Q. Is that also on page 23?
20 A. Yes. It is on the same page.
21 Q. And would you read that in the record
22 please.
23 A. "Skeet or troopshooting if not closer than
24 1,320 feet to any residence or farm group."
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1 Q. Is it your testimony that the Southfork Gun
2 Club is in fact within 1,320 feet of a residence or farm
3 group?
4 A. It's closer than 1,320 feet. That would be
5 correct, yes.
6 Q. Does either of the sections you previously
7 read, the 337.061 and 33.055, do either of them mandate
8 a 1,320 feet setback?
9 A. No, they do not.
10 Q. Does any document provided to you by the
11 county zoning office relative to the gun club rezoning
12 application in 1968 reflect any attempt to demonstrate a
13 1,320 foot setback?
14 A. No. I would say that they adamantly
15 avoided it from the descriptions that they give.
16 Q. Does any document provided to you by the
17 county zoning office in response to your Freedom of
18 Information Act reflect the specific finding by the
19 county that 1,320 feet setback existed?
20 A. Not that I recall.
21 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to look at a
22 legal description at the top of what's been marked
23 Complainant's Exhibit 7A.
24 A. Yes, sir.
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1 Q. I believe you previously read that into the
2 record.
3 A. The southwest one quarter, southeast one
4 quarter, northeast one quarter, of section 13, T13 N,
5 R2 W, Christian County, Illinois.
6 Q. Now, sir, do you know what R2 W refers to?
7 A. Yes. That would be the range in the
8 description.
9 Q. And approximately how wide is a range, a
10 statutory range?
11 A. Around six miles.
12 Q. I see. Do you have any information to
13 suggest that this legal description as set forth in the
14 application is incorrect or correct?
15 A. Yes. I live in R3, which that's where the
16 gun club is also located in range 3. So the legal
17 description is actually approximately six miles off.
18 Q. Okay. When did you discover that
19 particular error?
20 A. You, yourself, had sent me information to
21 go over. And in reading over it, I
22 discovered -- actually, it was on documentation. It was
23 to be presented in court, and I looked over it. And
24 being familiar with this document, the R2 W had been
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 actually scribbled out, and an R3 wrote in. And I
2 brought that to your attention. And then it was my
3 understanding that you investigated it, and said, yes, I
4 was correct, and had brought that up.
5 My understanding is that was brought up in
6 a conference call in regard to a hearing with
7 Judge Spears, because we had -- or you had, as our legal
8 representative, protested, and actually was going to ask
9 for sanctions, I believe, in regards to it. And
10 Judge Spears said that it would not be admitted in this
11 conference that you had. That was my understanding.
12 Q. So what did the plaintiffs do after they
13 realized there was a significant error in the legal
14 description? Did you file suit in the court?
15 A. Yes, we did.
16 Q. I heard you refer to Judge Spears. I
17 assume you --
18 A. Yes. We appeared before Judge Spears back
19 in January. I believe it was around January 9th of 2002
20 of this year. He issued a temporary injunction, and
21 that was followed up by a hearing for summary judgment,
22 which resulted in a permanent injunction because of them
23 being off on their legal description and not in line
24 with the laws of the state.
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 Q. Did you have occasion to be present when
2 the court orally entered the permanent injunction?
3 A. Yes, I was.
4 Q. And have you had an opportunity since then
5 to look at and read the Court's permanent injunction
6 order?
7 A. Yes.
8 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 8 was
9 marked for identification.]
10 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) And I'm going to hand
11 you what's been labeled Complainant's Exhibit 8, and ask
12 you if you recognize that document as the permanent
13 injunction order entered by Judge Spears.
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. What's the date of that order? Would you
16 look on page 5 please.
17 A. 5? September the 6th of 2002.
18 Q. So about three weeks ago?
19 A. That would be correct.
20 MR. VAN NESS: Mr. Hearing Officer, I move
21 for admission of that, of Exhibit 8.
22 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 8?
23 Exhibit 8 is admitted.
24 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 8 was
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 admitted into evidence.]
2 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to ask you,
3 Mr. Logsdon, to read paragraph 17 and 18 of that order
4 for the record.
5 A. Paragraph 17 reads as follows:
6 "That the said action of Defendant
7 Christian County's Board of Supervisors in granting the
8 said petition for special use to the Southfork Gun Club,
9 Incorporated, was therefore void ab initio."
10 And paragraph 18 reads: "That the
11 Defendant Southfork Gun Club and Defendant Village of
12 Kincaid therefore had and have no authority to conduct
13 or allow skeet or trapshooting on the gun club's
14 property."
15 Q. Thank you.
16 A. You're welcome.
17 Q. Since the Court entered its permanent
18 injunction three weeks ago, what has been the gun club's
19 response?
20 A. In court, I believe they have filed for a
21 reconsideration. At the facility last Friday night, we
22 were entertained with a rock concert.
23 Q. When you say you were entertained by a rock
24 concert, what are you describing? What do you mean?
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 A. The village -- well, Friday night around a
2 quarter to 9:00 this past Friday, I started hearing very
3 loud music playing at the gun club.
4 Q. What kind of music?
5 A. Rock.
6 Q. Okay.
7 A. Rock 'n roll.
8 Q. Would you characterize it as louder in your
9 opinion?
10 A. Well, I was sitting in my house, and I
11 couldn't believe how much louder it was than the
12 shooting itself. That kind of surprised me that the
13 music was actually louder in my living room than the
14 shooting.
15 And I went outside. It started out with
16 drum beating is how it started. And then next there was
17 a whole band playing after they beat the drum for a
18 while. And there was talking over a loud speaker. And
19 like I said, it started around quarter till 9:00.
20 I called the Christian County Sheriff's
21 Department who referred me to the Kincaid police
22 officer. And actually they called him and he called
23 me. And told me that the Village of Kincaid had issued
24 a permit from 9:00 to 12:00 for the Southfork Gun Club
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 to have a picnic or party, whatever, over there. I
2 don't believe he elaborated on the specific use, but
3 said that it would be over at midnight.
4 At 12:25, the band was still playing that
5 night, 25 minutes past the permit issued.
6 Q. And after the band quit playing, did the
7 sound stop?
8 A. No. They had stereo music that lasted
9 until about 1:25 in the morning.
10 Q. And that was just this last Friday; is that
11 correct?
12 A. That's correct. I have a tape of that.
13 Q. That's not necessary.
14 What other responses has the gun club made?
15 You mentioned the motion for reconsideration now pending
16 in court. You mentioned the rock concert last Friday.
17 Anything else?
18 A. Not off the top of my head that I can think
19 of.
20 Q. You're not aware of any attempts to rezone
21 the location?
22 A. Oh, well, yes, absolutely, in regards to
23 the attempt of rezoning, yes.
24 I actually attended a -- it wasn't a full
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 board meeting, but a partial -- it was the zoning
2 committee meeting, and they had an attorney representing
3 them there, a Mr. Day. And he presented a proposal to
4 the county zoning commission that he wanted passed on to
5 the full board.
6 And I spoke there, and some of my neighbors
7 spoke there at the meeting also. And they decided to
8 write to the attorney general for an opinion as to
9 whether or not it would be legal to rezone or to spot
10 zone that specific site.
11 Q. Do you recall anyone referring to it as
12 spot zoning or special legislation?
13 A. I believe Mr. Day did, and he made
14 reference to some zoning issues in Springfield and
15 referred to that as an example.
16 Q. Okay. So as we sit here today, the gun
17 club continues to emit noise and continues its efforts
18 to be allowed to emit noise? Is that a fair statement?
19 A. Yes, it is.
20 Q. Now, when the officer told you that the
21 rock concert was authorized by the village -- first of
22 all, do you recall who that officer was?
23 A. No, I do not.
24 Q. And he was an officer of the Kincaid Police
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KEEFE REPORTING COMPANY
1 Department?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Would you happen to know who on behalf of
4 the gun club might have applied for that permit?
5 A. No, I don't have that information.
6 Q. Mr. Logsdon, what do you want the board to
7 do at the conclusion of this proceeding?
8 A. Give me back my life, stop the noise, stop
9 the battle, stop all the emotional trauma, stop the
10 trespassing nuisance on my property. Stop what the
11 county refuses to stop, even regardless of an
12 injunction. I want enforcement of the laws of the State
13 of Illinois.
14 Q. Do you think a monetary penalty would be
15 appropriate?
16 A. I think it would be more than appropriate.
17 I'd like for the board members to sit and
18 listen for 12, 16 hours a day to constant shooting.
19 It's enough to drive you crazy for a couple three years
20 when you just retired and you're trying to enjoy your
21 life.
22 And you can't go fishing in your lake. You
23 can't enjoy anything outside.
24 I don't think you can fine them enough, not
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1 by my standard, for allowing them to get away with it,
2 and knowing from the injunctions, they've been illegal.
3 Q. To the best of your knowledge, has the
4 Southfork Gun Club or the Village of Kincaid ever
5 erected a device or structure of any kind to limit the
6 noise emitting from the property?
7 A. No. They have never spent a dime on
8 anything like that. That's why I said they should be
9 fined severely.
10 I mean, how much can anybody take to ruin
11 your family life, to ruin the enjoyment? Would you take
12 a thousand dollars a day or would you take $5,000 a day
13 to allow people to trespass on your property? To have
14 noise that drives you nuts all the time? How much could
15 it possibly be worth? And then to put up with it seven
16 days a week over and over and over again for over a
17 year, or almost a year and a half, before we get some
18 kind of relief in restricting their hours, and even then
19 they violated the restrictions on their hours.
20 I don't think they could be fined enough.
21 I don't know how much you could sell your life for a day
22 for putting up with the misery that we've all had to put
23 up with. And then have to battle like this and the
24 expense of it all.
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1 MR. VAN NESS: No further questions.
2 I want to make sure that all of the
3 exhibits --
4 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: 1 through 8.
5 They're not, and I want to address that in just a
6 minute.
7 I have one question for Mr. Logsdon.
8 EXAMINATION
9 QUESTIONS BY HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF:
10 Q. When was the last time that shotguns
11 were -- did you hear the shotguns fired?
12 A. I believe it was the night before the
13 permanent injunction -- or the temporary injunction.
14 Excuse me. Back in January.
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
16 THE WITNESS: You're welcome.
17 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: You can have a
18 seat.
19 AUDIENCE MEMBER: Could I ask a question as
20 a citizen?
21 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: No, sir. You're
22 allowed to give testimony at the end of the hearing
23 later today.
24 MR. LOGSDON: Should I leave these items?
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Yes, please.
2 You have to have an attorney representing
3 the gun club in order to ask them questions.
4 AUDIENCE MEMBER: I can't ask questions as
5 a citizen?
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: That's right.
7 You're allowed to give written and verbal testimony
8 today.
9 MR. VAN NESS: Mr. Hearing Officer, it's a
10 quarter till. Do you want to take a break now? Or do
11 you want to --
12 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I think that's
13 up to my court reporter.
14 THE REPORTER: I don't need a break.
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I want to keep
16 going.
17 MR. VAN NESS: Do you want to keep going?
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: There are a
19 couple of things with the exhibits we need to take care
20 of. Do you have an audio tape over there? And I want
21 to put a label on it.
22 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: For the record,
23 I haven't admitted 6A. I think I just said 6. 6B
24 hasn't been offered.
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1 MR. VAN NESS: We offer it now.
2 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: It will be
3 admitted. And the same thing goes for 7B.
4 MR. VAN NESS: We would offer that.
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And 7B is
6 admitted.
7 [Complainant's Exhibit Numbers 6A, 6B,
8 7A and 7B were admitted into
9 evidence.]
10 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: For the record,
11 Exhibits 1 through 8 includes 6A, B, and 7A, B are
12 admitted and part of the record. Let's go off the
13 record for just a second.
14 [Off-the-record discussion.]
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Call your next
16 witness please.
17 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
18 Officer.
19 The complainant will call Mr. Alvin Abbott.
20 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Mr. Abbott, you
21 can have a seat right up here please.
22 [Witness sworn.]
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
24
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1 ALVIN W. ABBOTT
2 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
3 the part of the Complainants, testifies and says:
4 EXAMINATION
5 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
6 Q. Mr. Abbott, will you state your full name
7 please for the record.
8 A. Alvin W. Abbott.
9 Q. Where do you reside?
10 A. 1569 North 900 East Road, Taylorville.
11 Q. How long have you lived there, sir?
12 A. 20 years.
13 Q. Since when?
14 A. 1982. September 30th of 1982, I purchased
15 that property.
16 Q. Thank you. What was the nature of the area
17 when you moved there?
18 A. It was very peaceful and quiet. Nice
19 little lake behind the house there. We used to go
20 fishing all the time.
21 Q. Was your home an existing home or did you
22 have it built?
23 A. It was an existing home.
24 Q. An existing home? Do you know how old it
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1 was when you moved in?
2 A. I think it was 1976.
3 Q. So it was five years old or so when you
4 moved in?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And I'm going to ask you to look at what's
7 been marked as People's Exhibit 1. Please look the map
8 over and tell me whether you agree that it is a fair
9 representation of the area.
10 A. Yes, it is.
11 Q. You heard Mr. Logsdon's testimony earlier,
12 did you not?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. Would you agree that the markings indicated
15 thereon by Mr. Logsdon are generally accurate?
16 A. Yes, they are.
17 Q. Do you need to make any changes?
18 A. No, I don't. Pretty much everything is
19 covered on it.
20 Q. Regarding the area that's been marked with
21 the pink marker, do you recognize that as the gun club
22 area?
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 Q. Regarding that area, when you moved in, in
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1 1982, do you recall whether there were any above-ground
2 structures visible at that location?
3 A. The only thing that was on that property
4 was a lot of weeds, a lot of grass, and what they call
5 trapshoots that were deteriorated away and filled full
6 of dirt.
7 Q. Do you recall whether they were in regular
8 use at that time?
9 A. They were not in use at that time.
10 Q. Has the gun club area changed since you
11 moved in?
12 A. Yes. They built all the new buildings in
13 1999. They built new buildings. I think they built
14 three, but I know for a fact that they built two. And
15 they took a bulldozer and they come in with a Cat and
16 cleaned all this property down, smoothed it all down.
17 There was a bunch of trees on that property at that
18 time, because over a 20-year period, a lot of trees have
19 grown up on that property, trees and weeds and grass.
20 Q. And it's your testimony that all this
21 bulldozing and so forth took place in approximately
22 1999?
23 A. Early '99, yeah.
24 Q. Thank you. When is the first time, to the
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1 best of your recollection, that you observed gun club
2 activity on that site?
3 A. Well, I did hear approximately three times
4 over 20 years a little gun noise over there somewhere on
5 that side of the lake. Whether it was on this property
6 or not, I'm not sure. I don't know.
7 Q. You just heard the gunfire?
8 A. Yeah, I heard gunfire noise.
9 Q. Now, since then, have you personally
10 witnessed, actually seen shooting activity at the
11 property across the lake?
12 A. Yes, in 1999. Right off of Dave Martin's
13 yard -- I mean Dave Collins. I'm sorry.
14 Q. Would you agree with the markings made by
15 Mr. Logsdon as to the general area where the shooting
16 took place? That's the area indicated by the pink
17 highlighter.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Would you agree with his representation as
20 to the general direction of gunfire?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Using the dimensions on the map that
23 Mr. Logsdon had done earlier for his property, can you
24 estimate the distance from the gun club shooting area to
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1 your property?
2 A. I'm going to say approximately 850, 900
3 feet, max.
4 Q. Certainly not 1,320 feet?
5 A. No way.
6 Q. Do you recall Mr. Logsdon's testimony about
7 the frequency in duration of shooting?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you have anything to add to that?
10 A. Well, it went on for a lot of hours.
11 Sometimes it went on for 12, 14 hours a day, and they
12 did it to 11:00, 12:00 at night.
13 Q. So you agree with his characterization?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Are there any observations that you would
16 add to Mr. Logsdon's statements regarding the frequency
17 and duration of shooting?
18 A. Not other than the fact it was just almost
19 unbearable. I mean, I work a swing-shift job seven days
20 a week.
21 Q. Let me ask you whether you ever had
22 occasion to videotape the shooting activity at the gun
23 club.
24 A. Yes, I did. Me and my wife videotaped it.
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1 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 10 was
2 marked for identification.]
3 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I see. I'm going to
4 show you what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit 10,
5 and ask you whether you recognize it? If you can.
6 A. Yes, I recognize it.
7 Q. I'm going to ask you whether you recognize
8 that as a tape recording of the activity at the gun
9 club.
10 A. I do.
11 Q. Now, is this a cartridge that was placed in
12 your video camera? Or did you import the material over
13 from your video camera to your tape?
14 A. It was transferred from the video camera
15 over to the tape.
16 Q. I see, okay.
17 I'm going to -- Mr. Hearing Officer, I'm
18 going to ask for its admission into the record.
19 And I'm also going to ask Mr. Logsdon, I
20 guess, to put it in the tape recorder.
21 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay.
22 MR. VAN NESS: Tape player. We will
23 talk --
24 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Is it a
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1 120-minute tape?
2 MR. VAN NESS: It is. We will not play it
3 for 120 minutes. I will tell you how long we will play
4 it for. I have arbitrarily selected five time frames
5 totalling approximately five minutes.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Is that
7 the only video tape you have today?
8 MR. VAN NESS: Yes.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Exhibit
10 10 will be admitted.
11 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
12 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 10 was
13 admitted into evidence.]
14 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Mr. Van Ness, if
15 you're talking as you do the tape, make sure the court
16 reporter can hear you, so she can hear.
17 MR. VAN NESS: Why don't I stand over here
18 and it will also make this work better. We've got it in
19 there, and it's supposed to start playing.
20 Okay. For the record, I'm going to run it
21 from the beginning of the tape being, 00.00 on counter
22 to one minute subsequent to that, being 00.1.00.
23 [Viewing of video tape.]
24 MR. VAN NESS: Now, Mr. Hearing Officer,
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1 I'm going to forward it to 2.301 counter. Okay. I'll
2 stop it there.
3 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And that was 3?
4 MR. VAN NESS: That will be at 3.30 at the
5 counter.
6 I'm now going to fast-forward to another
7 spot that I picked at random, being 11.30 on the
8 counter. Actually, 11.320.
9 [Viewing of video tape.]
10 MR. VAN NESS: I'll stop it there at 12.10,
11 and skip next to the last time to the mark 15.0, as
12 close as I can get to it.
13 [Viewing of video tape.]
14 MR. VAN NESS: And I stopped at 16 on the
15 counter, 16.00.
16 And we'll move now some considerable
17 distance to 37.01 on the counter.
18 [Viewing of video tape.]
19 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I would like to hold at
20 this point to ask the witness to verify the date shown
21 on the lower right-hand corner of the screen. Would you
22 read the date on the lower right-hand corner of the
23 screen? It's kind of hard to read.
24 A. I can't read it from here, yes.
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1 Q. I believe it is June 9, 2000. Does that
2 sound about right?
3 A. Yes. That sounds about right.
4 [Viewing of video tape.]
5 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Can you, Mr. Abbott, can
6 you describe the first set of scenes we were watching?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Can you tell us the condition under which
9 that recording was made?
10 A. Yes. We were about 28 to 30 foot from the
11 side of this house, in his yard, to the south side of
12 his house to the lake.
13 Q. Let me give you a purple pen, Mr. Abbott,
14 and ask you to mark where you were standing when that
15 tape was made.
16 A. [Witness indicated.]
17 Q. Thank you. Now, as you were standing there
18 taking the shots, I couldn't help but notice that it was
19 dark outside. Do you have an idea what time of day it
20 was?
21 A. Somewhere around 7:30, 8:30 at night.
22 Q. The nighttime shots were?
23 A. Oh, it was shortly after that. Whatever
24 the tape said there is what time it was.
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1 Q. Do you know whether -- well, never mind.
2 Would you describe now the shots that were
3 taken in the evening -- I mean -- I'm sorry. During
4 daylight hours? Were you standing in roughly the same
5 place there?
6 A. Yes, very close to the same place.
7 Q. Pretty much the same place when you were
8 taking that shot? Okay.
9 A. It might have been a little further back to
10 the east.
11 Q. Further away from the gun club?
12 A. Yeah, a little bit further -- closer to the
13 east, before it gets to Mike's property.
14 Q. Okay, all right. Who was with you when you
15 were taking the shots?
16 A. My wife.
17 Q. Thank you. And you're referring to?
18 A. Kathy Abbott.
19 Q. Thank you. Would you agree that the tape
20 excerpts are representative of the events you witnessed
21 that day?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. To the best of your knowledge, did you or
24 anyone else doctor the sound in any way --
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1 A. No.
2 Q. -- to bring up the sound?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Now, I notice you were using a sound meter
5 there?
6 A. Yes, I was.
7 Q. Is that the same sound meter that
8 Mr. Logsdon used earlier and testified to earlier?
9 A. If that's the one that he gave me, then
10 that is it, correct.
11 Q. I'm going to ask you to describe the
12 effects of the shooting activity on your quality of
13 life. Has the noise coming from the gun club affected
14 your sleep?
15 A. Yes, it has.
16 Q. What kind of employment do you have, sir?
17 A. I work at a chemical plant, Formosa
18 Chemical Plastics. I've been there for 21 years.
19 And there's been many nights I'm working
20 12-hour swing-shift nights. I get an hour of sleep.
21 And I went to work and worked 12 hours, and got off
22 afternoon the next day. And you sleep for an hour or
23 two, and the noise would start, and I'd be awake from
24 when I got to work until the time I got home from work
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1 the next day.
2 Q. Does the lack of sleep affect your work?
3 A. Sure it does.
4 Q. Do you believe that the lack of sleep
5 imposes a safety hazard for you or your fellow
6 employees?
7 A. Sure. When you're around heavy equipment
8 and you have no sleep, I'm more apt to get hurt than
9 what you are if you have a lot of rest and go to work.
10 Q. How about the use of your home, has the
11 noise from the gun club affected the use of your home?
12 A. It was so bad, that we tried to stay away
13 from our house. We closed the swimming pool down for
14 two summers because the noise was so loud.
15 Q. Has the noise coming from the gun club
16 affected your physical health?
17 A. Yes, it has.
18 Q. In what way?
19 A. I got -- my hearing has been -- I'm real
20 hard hearing the last two years. I've had physicals at
21 work. And I wear earplugs at work everyday that I'm
22 there. And this noise is unbearable.
23 Q. Has the noise affected your emotional and
24 mental health in your opinion?
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1 A. Sure it has.
2 Q. In what way?
3 A. Well, you get a -- you get grouchy fast.
4 You don't want to be around nobody. You just want to
5 just kind of get away, you know, get away from the
6 people.
7 Q. Have you received any kind of medical care?
8 A. I go to a doctor on a couple occasions, and
9 they did give me some medicine to take to calm my nerves
10 and try to get some rest. And I did do that.
11 Q. Has the noise coming from the gun club
12 affected your family members' well-being?
13 A. Sure it has. I got a boy who used to go
14 fishing all the time for one thing, but of course he's
15 not allowed on the lake because of the noise and pellets
16 going every direction.
17 Also, when he was at home in the house
18 trying to his homework on the computer and typing tests
19 he had to do, he couldn't sit in his room and
20 concentrate and do good work. That's how bad the noise
21 was inside the house.
22 Q. Now, how old is your son?
23 A. He's 16 now.
24 Q. Did you hear the rock music coming from the
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1 gun club area last Friday?
2 A. Yes, I did. I got home at approximately
3 5 after 12:00. I was working second shift. As soon as
4 I got home, my wife called me, and she was calling me
5 from work, because she had gone to work at 11:30. So I
6 called Christian County police officers. They called it
7 in. And they called one of their deputies and sent him
8 out there, which was Roy Wilbur, but he didn't get out
9 there. It was a lot later until he got there.
10 Q. Who?
11 A. Roy Wilbur. He's a Christian County police
12 officer that responded to this call. This Jim Baker,
13 who is a police officer in Kincaid, he also responded to
14 this earlier and went over to the gun club. And he had
15 called my wife at home and talked to her a minute. And
16 they had a legal permit to shoot until 12 o'clock at
17 night.
18 Q. I see. And now, you say you got home about
19 5 minutes till 12:00?
20 A. 5 after 12:00.
21 Q. 5 after 12:00? Was the noise still coming
22 from the site at that time?
23 A. Yes, it was.
24 Q. And how long after that did it continue?
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1 A. It was pretty loud until 25 after, or 20 or
2 25 after 12:00. It was really loud. They had a band
3 going on, a lot of loud music. And then one of the
4 officers arrived over there, and the band quit. And
5 then they started turning their own tunes on, their own
6 stereo on, and it lasted until about 1:25. And one of
7 the officers was sitting in my driveway listening to
8 that noise. That also was Roy Wilbur.
9 Q. That was Officer Wilson?
10 A. Roy Wilbur.
11 Q. Roy Wilbur? And he is a sheriff's officer?
12 A. Yeah. He's a Christian County --
13 Q. Christian County?
14 A. -- police officer.
15 Q. Sheriff?
16 A. Sheriff.
17 Q. Okay. What effect did that noise have on
18 you personally?
19 A. Well, you know, when you can't even get in
20 your own house and lay down and go to sleep and rest, I
21 mean, it's pathetic. And a person don't realize how bad
22 it is until you listen to it. And day in and day out,
23 night after night, year after year, month after month.
24 Q. I'm going to ask you what I asked
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1 Mr. Logsdon earlier. What do you want the pollution
2 control board to do about this situation?
3 A. You know, what I asked them to do is
4 protect the innocent people that are victims in this
5 mess. You know, there's no amount of money you could
6 ever give to a person for something like this. Them
7 people know they're wrong and they just flat didn't care
8 about nobody else. And they still don't, and they
9 proved that fact just last Friday night doing what they
10 did.
11 MR. VAN NESS: I have no further
12 questions.
13 I think we have the tape already admitted.
14 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Yes, that's
15 correct.
16 MR. VAN NESS: No further questions.
17 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
18 Mr. Abbott.
19 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
20 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Next witness?
21 MR. VAN NESS: Plaintiff calls Kathy
22 Abbott.
23 [Witness sworn.]
24 KATHY M. ABBOTT
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1 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
2 the part of the Complainants, testifies and says:
3 EXAMINATION
4 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
5 Q. Mrs. Abbott, will you state your full name
6 for the record please.
7 A. Kathy M. Abbott.
8 Q. Where do you live?
9 A. At 1569 North 900 East Road, Taylorville,
10 Illinois.
11 Q. And I assume you moved in the same time
12 your husband did back in '82?
13 A. Yes, I did.
14 Q. You've had the opportunity now to hear both
15 Mr. Logsdon and your husband's prior testimony; is that
16 correct?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Based on your own observations, do you
19 agree with their characterizations?
20 A. Yes, I do.
21 Q. Are there any observations that you would
22 add?
23 A. Basically what they said. It's bad stuff.
24 It's unbearable.
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1 Q. Do you have any -- you had opportunity
2 earlier to watch the excerpts from the video tape; isn't
3 that right?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Being Complainant's Exhibit 10.
6 And at some time you were the one actually
7 holding the camera, correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. I see. Would you agree that the tape
10 excerpts that we've just played accurately portrayed
11 what you observed with your own eyes?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And with your own ears?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. To the best of your knowledge, did you or
16 anyone else doctor the tape in any way to bring up the
17 sound or otherwise distort it?
18 A. No.
19 Q. I'm going to ask you about the effects of
20 the shooting activity on your life. Has the noise
21 coming from the gun club affected your sleep?
22 A. Oh, yes.
23 Q. In what way?
24 A. I work midnights. I take care of
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1 handicapped people here in Christian County, and I was
2 getting no sleep.
3 Q. Normally when would you go to sleep?
4 A. Well, I go to sleep between 5:00 and 6:00
5 at night. I leave home at 10:30. They would still be
6 shooting when I left home.
7 Q. Has the lack of sleep affected you at work?
8 A. Yeah, because at times some of them get up,
9 you know, and I have to help them, and it just wasn't a
10 good thing.
11 Q. Why don't you describe your job briefly for
12 us.
13 A. Well, I take care of handicaps. And
14 basically we do their laundry, their cleaning, their
15 cooking. And sometimes they get up through the night
16 and need help with stuff. So we help them.
17 Q. What's the nature of the residents that you
18 have there?
19 A. The handicapped?
20 Q. Right.
21 A. They live there, and then they go to work
22 every day. We have to get them up the next morning and
23 get them ready for their job.
24 Q. Are these people physically handicapped?
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1 A. Both.
2 Q. Mentally handicapped or both?
3 A. Both.
4 Q. I see. So at times and during the course
5 of your work, you're assisting them physically to get
6 around the facility?
7 A. Yes. We've got two in wheelchairs and we
8 have to do almost everything for them. Dress them. We
9 don't feed them. They feed their selves, but we have to
10 help them get dressed, and we have to help them to the
11 bathroom.
12 Q. It's important that you have your sleep
13 when you take on that position?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Would you say that the noise coming from
16 the gun club area has affected your physical health?
17 A. Yes. I'd be laying in bed at night. And I
18 mean, it would drill right into my eardrums until it
19 would just go right in your head and stay there.
20 Q. How about your emotional and mental health?
21 Would you kind of lump those all together?
22 A. Oh, yeah. I was not a good mood person.
23 No, I wasn't. You just didn't want to be around me.
24 Q. Had you seen a physician about the
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1 conditions brought on by the gun club?
2 A. No. I kind of just lived with it, tried to
3 anyways.
4 Q. How has the noise coming from the gun club
5 area affected your use of the home?
6 A. Well, we can't enjoy our yard. Like he
7 said, we shut our pool down for two summers. You can't
8 have no friends and family over.
9 Q. Why is that?
10 A. Because of the shooting in the back yard.
11 Q. Is the shooting in the back yard when you
12 have guests over sufficient to interrupt or interfere
13 with normal conversation?
14 A. Yes, it is. I mean, it sounds like you're
15 in Beirut, the war zone out there in your back yard is
16 what it sounds like.
17 Q. Has the noise coming from the gun club area
18 affected your family members' well-being?
19 A. Yes. My husband and my son both have
20 been -- their lives have been miserable because of it
21 and so has my pet's.
22 Q. Did you hear the rock music coming over
23 last Friday night?
24 A. Oh, yes. I was in bed. I went to bed at
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1 6:30 that night, and I was awake at quarter to 9:00 that
2 night of beating on drums, and then loud music. And I
3 had to be at work at midnight. So I had to leave at
4 quarter to 12:00 because I didn't want to leave my son
5 alone. So I didn't get no sleep from quarter to 9:00 to
6 quarter to 12:00. And I went to work that night, last
7 Friday night.
8 Q. Do you know someone by the name of Vickie
9 Moses Abbott?
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. Is she related to you?
12 A. She used to be. She was married to one of
13 my brothers-in-law.
14 Q. She is married to one of --
15 A. Alvin's brother.
16 Q. One of your husband's brothers?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. I see. How long have you known her?
19 A. I don't know. I've been married to him for
20 21 years, so.
21 Q. Did you know her before then?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Do you know where she resided? I mean,
24 where does she reside now? Where does she live?
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1 A. She lives in Georgia now.
2 Q. She lives in Georgia now? Do you know
3 where she lived before that?
4 A. A long time ago?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. Yeah. She lived right next door to me, but
7 I didn't live there then, but she lived where the Manns
8 live, where the Manns live now.
9 Q. Her middle name is Moses?
10 A. Her maiden name.
11 Q. Is that a maiden name?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. When she was not a married woman, just
14 Vickie Moses, did she live in the area around where you
15 live now?
16 A. Her father did, yes.
17 Q. Her father did?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And did in fact he live there prior to the
20 formation of the Southfork Gun Club in 1968?
21 A. Yes, he did. He lived there then in '68.
22 MR. VAN NESS: I think that's all the
23 questions I have for you. Thank you.
24 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
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1 Ms. Abbott.
2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
3 [Lunch break.]
4 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: We're back on
5 the record. For the record, it's 1 o'clock.
6 And you may please call your next witness.
7 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
8 Officer. Complainants call Mr. Darrell Mann.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
10 [Witness sworn.]
11 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
12 DARRELL E. MANN
13 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
14 the part of the Complainants, testifies and says:
15 EXAMINATION
16 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
17 Q. Mr. Mann, for the record, will you state
18 your full name and will you spell it for the court
19 reporter please.
20 A. My name is Darrell Eugene Mann. First
21 name, D-a-r-r-e-l-l; Eugene, E-u-g-e-n-e; Mann, M-a-n-n.
22 Q. Thank you. Mr. Mann, where do you live?
23 A. I live at 1577 North 900 East Road,
24 Taylorville, Illinois.
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1 Q. Are you employed outside the home?
2 A. Yes, I am.
3 Q. And what is the nature of your position?
4 A. I work in an underground coal mine, Turris
5 Coal, in Williamsville, Illinois.
6 Q. And now how long have you been living at
7 the address you mentioned ago?
8 A. We moved there in April of 1997. So
9 approximately a little over five years, five and a half
10 years.
11 Q. What was the nature of the area when you
12 moved in?
13 A. Well, when we looked at the location, my
14 wife and I thought it would be the ideal place to build
15 because we enjoyed the country, and it was quiet.
16 Actually, the first year, year and a half we were there,
17 there was nothing but sounds of birds, and we watched
18 deer and everything else on our property.
19 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to look at what's
20 been labeled Complainant's Exhibit 1. Do you recognize
21 that, sir?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. Do you agree that that map is generally
24 accurate?
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1 A. Yes, it is, other than the 3.666 acres
2 that's just west of what they have marked around here as
3 Mann, that's also my property, which runs right up
4 against the lake.
5 Q. Do you see where they -- where Mr. Logsdon
6 has indicated that you live? Is this a correct
7 representation of your lot?
8 A. Yes, it is.
9 Q. So you own that lot?
10 A. Plus the other 3.666 acres.
11 Q. Now, I'm going to ask you to look at the
12 map again at the area that was marked by Mr. Logsdon
13 with the pink highlighter, and ask you whether you
14 recognize that as the gun club area.
15 A. Yes, I would say that's an accurate
16 location.
17 Q. And the red ink mark, does that indicate
18 the general direction? Do you concur with those as
19 well?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. When you moved in, in April of 1997, do you
22 recall whether there were any above-ground structures in
23 place on that property across the lake?
24 A. All I seen -- I fished that lake. All I
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1 seen was just weeds and timber growing over there.
2 There was no above-ground structures as far as man-made
3 buildings or anything else. It was just natural things
4 there.
5 Q. To the best of your recollection, when was
6 the first time you heard gun club activity at that site?
7 A. I would say approximately it would have
8 been in late 1998, year of 1998.
9 Q. And what was the nature of that activity?
10 A. I heard a few gunshots starting, and then
11 it gradually increased as time went on towards the end
12 of the year in early 1999.
13 Q. Do you recall Mr. Logsdon's testimony
14 earlier today about the frequency and duration of the
15 shooting at the gun club?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Would you concur generally with the remarks
18 he made?
19 A. Yes, I would.
20 Q. Do you have anything that you would add to
21 the comments?
22 A. Other than besides the shooting, there was
23 never any type of signs as far as safety, no trespassing
24 signs or anything else, warning people about the
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1 shooting activities at the gun club, which I
2 believe -- of course, this is a noise hearing, but also
3 that was supposed to be required by law as far as the
4 zoning was concerned.
5 Q. Now, Mr. Mann, you've already indicated
6 your employment. Do you also have other employment
7 history?
8 A. Yes, I do. I was chief of police of
9 Mt. Auburn for 10 years. I hold a county commission for
10 a sheriff's deputy, but I took an extended leave of
11 absence. And I also raise cattle and horses.
12 Q. So you are on a leave of absence as a
13 deputy sheriff of Christian County?
14 A. Yes, that's correct.
15 Q. Have you personally witnessed shooting
16 activity at the gun club site?
17 A. Yes, I have.
18 Q. What were the first time, if you recall,
19 the first time you witnessed such shooting activity?
20 A. The first time would have been, as I stated
21 before, probably in late 1998, somewhere around that
22 area, that time period. I went down to my property. I
23 could observe my property. And I also went down to
24 Mr. Collins' property and watched them shoot from there.
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1 Q. When you were down visiting Mrs. Collins,
2 did you observe gunfire coming from the gun club area?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did the gunfire appear to be directed in
5 the general direction of Mrs. Collins' property?
6 A. When they first started shooting, some of
7 the traps would travel in that area. I mean, some of
8 the shots. I mean, not all of them, but some of them
9 would travel in that location. I don't know if it would
10 be exactly at his residence, but it would be in the
11 close vicinity as far as where the projectiles would be
12 going.
13 Q. Would you say that the noise levels were
14 higher there in Mrs. Collins' property than, say, at
15 your property?
16 A. I would say, yes, they were, but they were
17 still very loud at my property.
18 MR. VAN NESS: Did I say Mrs. Martin's
19 property?
20 MR. LOGSDON: Collins.
21 MR. VAN NESS: I'm sorry.
22 Q. I meant Mrs. Martin's
23 property.
24 A. Yes. Mrs. Martin was actually my late
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1 wife's stepmother. So she was my mother-in-law. And we
2 had -- my daughter and some of her cousins and friends
3 would go back in her back pasture, but the beebees were
4 falling on her property actually from the gun club.
5 They said that they couldn't carry that far, but they
6 were actually pelting the children, plus me and a couple
7 of the other neighbors back there. And we were also
8 getting hit with pellets.
9 Q. Did Mrs. Martin complain to you about the
10 noise?
11 A. Yes. She didn't like it either, but she
12 was scared to take any type of action because she feared
13 of what might happen to her, repercussions from the gun
14 club members.
15 Q. Now, you've already testified that you
16 agree with Mr. Logsdon's testimony about the frequency
17 and duration of shooting at the gun club; is that right?
18 A. Yes, that's correct.
19 Q. Did you ever have an occasion to measure
20 the sound levels of the noises you heard?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Were you basically using the same kind of
23 sound meter that Mr. Logsdon was using?
24 A. Actually, it was the same sound meter.
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1 Q. The exact same one?
2 A. Yes, it was.
3 Q. Before you used it, did you inform yourself
4 as to how noise measurements should be made?
5 A. Yes. I was instructed by reading the
6 instructions from the sound meter. Also kind of -- I'm
7 not familiar with the chart right now because it's been
8 so long, but I also read some literature that was given
9 to us from the Illinois Pollution Control Board.
10 Q. I see.
11 A. Mr. Zak, I believe it was.
12 Q. From the EPA?
13 A. Yes. That's when he was with the EPA.
14 Q. You heard Mr. Logsdon testify this morning
15 as to the methodology he used to measure the sound?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. Did you employ the same methodology or did
18 it vary in some aspect?
19 A. I used the same method, but most of mine
20 were on the quicker response.
21 Q. You were on the A weighted fast response?
22 A. The fast response, yes.
23 Q. Now, you heard Mr. Logsdon say earlier this
24 morning that he made a record of his sound meter
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1 readings?
2 A. Yes, that's correct.
3 Q. Did you not? Did you also make such a
4 record?
5 A. I wrote my readings down on legal paper,
6 legal pad paper. Actually, it was yellow paper, I
7 believe.
8 MR. VAN NESS: Now, Mr. Hearing Officer, I
9 have here the Complainant's Exhibit Number 12 for
10 identification. I would ask you, Mr. Hearing Officer,
11 to permit me to use the copy of the original, but I do
12 have the original yellow copy if you desire.
13 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: That's fine.
14 The copy is fine.
15 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
16 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 12 was
17 marked for identification.]
18 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Now, Mr. Mann, I ask you
19 to look at what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit 12
20 for identification, and ask you if that is in fact the
21 recorded gunshut reports that you mentioned a few
22 moments ago.
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 Q. And that is in your handwriting?
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1 A. Yes, this is my handwriting.
2 MR. VAN NESS: I move for admission.
3 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 12 will
4 be admitted.
5 MR. VAN NESS: Exhibit 12?
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 12 will
7 be admitted.
8 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 12 was
9 admitted into evidence.]
10 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
11 Q. Now, Mr. Mann, for the
12 record, why don't you read the very, very top of the
13 third page.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. What does it say there?
16 A. It says Rita Martin, 5-28, 2000.
17 Q. Now, I take it from that, that these
18 observations that are recorded below were recorded at
19 Mrs. Martin's residence?
20 A. Yes, they are.
21 Q. Would you indicate -- go ahead and use one
22 of the pens there. Use the blue pen, I guess, and
23 indicate roughly where you were standing when you took
24 these readings.
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1 Mr. Hearing Officer, do you want him to
2 initial it or something?
3 THE WITNESS: Do you want me to put an "X"
4 there?
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Put an "X" there
6 and let me read it into the record.
7 THE WITNESS: I put an "X" right there.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Let the record
9 reflect that Mr. Mann put an "X" on the Martin property
10 where he made those readings.
11 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
12 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: A blue "X."
13 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
14 Q. And I'm going to very
15 briefly ask you to explain generally the record that
16 follows that heading on that page. Say, for instance,
17 the time apparently expressed 1618 and so forth. I'm
18 assuming you're using the 24 hour clock?
19 A. Right. That's actually military time and
20 also time that we used, well, actually when I was in law
21 enforcement.
22 Q. For those members of the board who were not
23 in the military or in law enforcement, 1616 correlates
24 to what?
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1 A. 1616 correlates to 4:16 p.m. in the
2 afternoon.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 A. Anything afternoon is considered -- like,
5 1 o'clock would be 1300 hours, 2 o'clock would be
6 1400 --
7 Q. That's fine. Thank you.
8 A. -- and so forth.
9 Q. Now, I note that the readings on this page,
10 like those on the page that were produced by
11 Mr. Logsdon, are expressed in two digit numbers; is that
12 correct?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. And do those correlate to the readings that
15 you were taking off the meter?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. And it's your testimony that the readings
18 that you took were accurate?
19 A. Yes, they were.
20 Q. Now, I noticed that under 1619 --
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. -- for example, I see readings ranging from
23 70 to 86. How did you determine 86? Was it necessary
24 for you to recalibrate the machine or --
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1 A. I had the machine calibrated at the 70
2 level, but it went way above. I mean, it measured past
3 the required marker on the readings. I did recalibrate
4 on some of the different ones, like the 60s and stuff,
5 because of the sound. They were using different type of
6 shots at the gun club. Some were using heavier loads
7 than others. So sometimes it wasn't necessary to
8 recalibrate the machine.
9 And, actually, some of the smaller amounts
10 of readings that I did take was because I
11 couldn't -- you couldn't get the readings quick enough.
12 So there were several shots that I did not record on
13 this.
14 Q. So it's your testimony that the reports
15 that are reflected here on this sheet, for instance, do
16 not comprise all the reports heard in that time frame?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Those which simply reflect the reports that
19 you were able to reset the machine and calibrate and
20 then record?
21 A. And read correctly, yes.
22 Q. All right, thank you. Now, I see the
23 report continued to a second page; is that correct?
24 A. That's correct.
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1 Q. And all of these are taken in the same
2 place in the same way at the same time except as noted?
3 A. These were taken from mine on the second
4 page.
5 Q. From your home?
6 A. From my home.
7 Q. So the second page are reports from your
8 house?
9 A. My house, yes.
10 Q. And that's a little bit further away than
11 Mrs. Martin's?
12 A. That's a little bit further away from
13 Mrs. Martin, from the gun club, yes.
14 Q. Now, I note the numbers that are reflected
15 on the second page tend to be somewhat lower than the
16 numbers on the first page.
17 A. They are lower because I'm a little bit
18 further away than Mrs. Martin, yes.
19 Q. And also you're on the opposite direction
20 from the gunfire; is that fair?
21 A. That's correct. It was not projected in my
22 way, actually. It was from the side.
23 Q. You mentioned that a load was different for
24 some guns than others that were being used at the gun
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1 club.
2 A. Yes, they were.
3 Q. How did you know that?
4 A. You could tell by the sound. And also we
5 had set a sheet down in the corner of my mother-in-law's
6 property, and we gathered different pellets, and the
7 pellets were different in size also.
8 Q. Oh.
9 A. So with the sounds and the pellets and
10 everything, you could tell the difference. Anyone that
11 has shot a gun or fired a gun, which I've been
12 acquainted with guns for most of my life, I could tell
13 the difference in the loads that they were shooting from
14 the guns.
15 Q. Thank you. I'm going to ask you, Mr. Mann,
16 the same questions I've asked the other witnesses
17 today. The effects of the noise from the gun club on
18 your quality of life.
19 A. On my quality of life? It's kind of
20 rough. I did work several jobs. I had to take a leave
21 of absence from the law enforcement because of all the
22 activity going on in the gun club. Lack of sleep.
23 Concern for my children, concern for their schooling,
24 for their rest.
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1 It's affected me at work, since I didn't
2 have enough sleep. I work at a dangerous occupation in
3 the underground coal mine with heavy equipment. You
4 have to watch the roofs, the top and stuff because of
5 the falls. My coworkers, I probably put them in more
6 danger than I should have. And it's all due because of
7 the tension and lack of sleep and psychological effect
8 it's had on my life.
9 Q. Has it affected your use of your home?
10 A. Yes, it has. We, up until January, we was
11 deprived the use of any outside activities of our home.
12 We tried to sit and watch a television
13 program. We turned the television up so loud, it would
14 just about shake the windows in your house. You
15 couldn't hear your television because of the gunshots.
16 You couldn't enjoy your home none
17 whatsoever. I mean, to get any type of enjoyment and
18 peace, you would have to leave and go somewhere just to
19 get a little bit of peace and quiet.
20 Even after they were proved that it was
21 unlawful to be shooting over there, they continued. And
22 we could not get any type of help from any, any type of
23 legal system in this county, from the Village of
24 Kincaid, or did we get any type of a relief from the gun
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1 club. They had no sympathy for anyone that lived out
2 there as long as they got to do what they wanted to do.
3 And the statement that was made to me from
4 Mr. Binegar is that he did not care what we wanted to do
5 or what we wanted, but they were going to do what they
6 wanted to do, and there was nothing we could do about
7 it. And, apparently, he was correct.
8 Q. Do you recall when he said that to you?
9 A. That was back whenever they first started,
10 probably in the early 1999 period.
11 Q. Have you spoken to Mr. Binegar since?
12 A. No, I haven't.
13 Q. Would you say the noise from the gun club
14 affected your physical health then?
15 A. It has also, yes, it has. I mean --
16 Q. Your emotional health?
17 A. And emotional. The emotional, huh?
18 My wife passed away in January. They
19 deprived her the use of our home or any type -- any type
20 of a good life the last two and a half years of her
21 life. Up until the week before she died, they were
22 shooting over there and she didn't get to enjoy the
23 house even the last week of her life because she was in
24 the hospital dying.
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1 She was on nerve medication,
2 antidepressants. I was taking her to the hospital,
3 coming home listening to the gunshots. She had brain
4 tumors.
5 The gunshots -- I don't know how to explain
6 it. They were tearing her up so bad, and there was
7 nothing I could do about it.
8 Q. Did you consult a physician on your own
9 behalf, sir?
10 A. Yes, I have.
11 Q. Has your doctor prescribed any medication?
12 A. I'm on Paxil.
13 Q. And what is that?
14 A. 25 milligrams of Paxil. It's an
15 antidepressant. And I'm also on Xanax, which is a nerve
16 medication.
17 Q. Were you on those medications prior to the
18 breakout of shooting at the gun club?
19 A. No, I wasn't.
20 Q. And you already mentioned your wife. And I
21 know you have children as well; is that correct?
22 A. Yes, I do. I have a 14-year-old daughter
23 at home.
24 Q. Has the noise, to your knowledge, had any
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1 effect on her?
2 A. Yes, it had. She couldn't sleep at night
3 when they were shooting. I mean, of course, they're not
4 shooting now. So she gets her rest. But before that,
5 she could not get to bed until the shooting stopped.
6 I'd go back there, and she'd still be
7 awake. And she didn't want to get up to go to school in
8 the morning because she would still be tired.
9 It affected actually some of her school
10 activities. And she's always been a straight "A"
11 student, and some of her subjects had dropped down to
12 "Bs" and stuff, but since they've quit, she's a
13 straight "A" student again.
14 Q. You mentioned earlier that the
15 difficult -- let me rephrase that.
16 You mentioned earlier that you could not
17 receive any relief from the county or the village; isn't
18 that correct?
19 A. Yes, that's correct.
20 Q. What makes you think that?
21 A. Because we've complained.
22 We went to the court system. We had it
23 proven they were wrong. And even when they knew that
24 they were wrong, it's just like some of the zonings and
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1 stuff. We could get no assistance from the state's
2 attorney. He was going to leave it up to the judicial
3 system and to the Illinois Pollution Control Board
4 before he made a decision on what he was going to do,
5 even though he knew they were in the wrong.
6 The Village of Kincaid, we made
7 presentations to them also at the different board
8 meetings. In our presentation, we showed them facts and
9 stuff where they weren't complying with their agreement
10 with the village or with the zoning laws and stuff. And
11 they would not do anything about it because most of the
12 board members at the Village of Kincaid are either
13 related to one of the gun club members or belong to the
14 gun club or have friends that shoot at the gun club.
15 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Binegar, who is
16 president at the gun club, is also a member of the
17 county board?
18 A. Yes. He is also on the zoning board.
19 Q. Did you hear the rock music coming from the
20 gun club area last Friday?
21 A. Yes, I did.
22 Q. Do you want to tell us about that?
23 A. Well, at approximately -- like my neighbor
24 said, it started about 15 until 9:00, the drums. My
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1 daughter was on the trampoline at the time. I told her,
2 I said, "I don't know where this music is coming from,
3 but it sounds like a band."
4 Mr. Zini has a band, but it's never been
5 that loud. And the way it was coming, we knew it wasn't
6 coming from his house. It was coming from the direction
7 of Mr. Collins' and Mr. -- and Michael's place. And I
8 didn't see any lights on over there. So I knew it
9 probably wasn't Michael. I mean, a band and everything,
10 because normally if we have any type of function, we
11 invite each other anyway.
12 And then I figured out it was coming from
13 the gun club. I mean, it was echoing off the lake, and
14 when it echoes off the lake, it just projects a little
15 bit louder noise anyway.
16 Q. And could you hear it inside your home?
17 A. Yes, I could.
18 Q. What effect did it have on you personally?
19 A. It was very aggravating, and it
20 started -- it started getting to me again because they
21 were just -- actually, I knew they were doing it to
22 aggravate us. I don't know any other reason why they
23 would have done it, even after they were shown they
24 couldn't shoot over there. And they were going to show
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1 us that they could cause some sort of noise or something
2 to cause us -- to just to be rude, actually.
3 Q. Now, you heard Mr. -- you heard Mr. Abbott
4 and you heard Mr. Logsdon earlier talking about their
5 attempts to respond to the rock music. Did you do
6 anything in response to that?
7 A. Well, at approximately around 9:30, my
8 daughter had an accident. She broke her arm on the
9 trampoline. So I had to leave. I didn't return home
10 until about 10 o'clock Sunday morning because my
11 daughter had to have an operation. She broke her arm so
12 bad.
13 Q. Were you surprised to hear that the gun
14 club had obtained a permit from the Village of Kincaid
15 to operate the rock music?
16 A. Actually, it was a surprise about the music
17 and stuff, but as far as being surprised that they would
18 do something like that, no.
19 Q. Are you aware of any efforts underway at
20 present that involve both the gun club and the village
21 and the county?
22 A. Yes. I believe they have submitted some
23 paperwork to the attorney general to see if it's legal
24 for them to rezone the area for them to shoot legally.
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1 They are making an attempt to have the permit
2 injunction, of which we have against them, overturned in
3 the judiciary system.
4 And they're also trying to get added to the
5 zone -- the zoning. Everything we had in the permanent
6 injunction, they stated that what they wanted to have
7 added to the zoning overturned in which would make them
8 legal to shoot and they could be rezoned.
9 Q. And that would be not withstanding the fact
10 that your homes are all well within the distance?
11 A. Yeah, regardless of whether our homes are
12 there or not.
13 Q. Would it surprise you if the village were
14 to issue a permit for tomorrow night?
15 A. It would not surprise me in the least.
16 MR. VAN NESS: No further questions.
17 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Thank
18 you.
19 Actually, Mr. Mann, I do have one question,
20 I think, that would be helpful for the board in
21 rendering its decision in this case.
22 EXAMINATION
23 QUESTIONS BY HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF:
24 Q. Could you briefly describe the difference
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1 in your life from the time in 1998, or whenever the gun
2 club started really cranking up, and to the time it
3 ended, I guess, the day before the preliminary
4 injunction and since the time of the preliminary
5 injunction to, I guess, right before the time of the
6 loud rock music last Friday night when there was, I take
7 it, really no shotgun blasts there?
8 A. So you would like, like, '98 when they
9 started?
10 Q. Can you compare the two times?
11 A. The two times, with the exception that
12 there's a lot of things happened in my life since then,
13 I mean, like I said before, my wife died approximately a
14 week after they had issued it, the temporary
15 injunction.
16 But as far as being at peace where I can
17 rest more, I can rest more now since there has been no
18 shooting. We have been able to use our outside for,
19 say, even just having a few friends over to cook out. I
20 mean, you can enjoy the peace.
21 The deer have started coming back in my
22 back yard. You can go back and you can see wildlife
23 again. When they were shooting, all the wildlife left
24 the area. You wouldn't see a deer. I used to have twin
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1 fawns there every year, and you wouldn't see a deer.
2 Actually, you wouldn't hardly see a raccoon or any type
3 of animal because they would scare them away, they were
4 shooting so loud. And since they have ceased to shoot,
5 the wildlife have came back. The geese have came back
6 to the lake. There are ducks on the lake. I would see
7 cranes and that, and I see deer out my back pasture.
8 Q. Do you feel better?
9 A. I'm starting to feel better, yes, unless
10 they start their music now. And I know that they're
11 going to try to find ways with noise just to aggravate
12 us. I know they will.
13 And what they're using -- since I believe
14 the permit injunction stated no shooting, firearms
15 activity or gun club activity, they're going to try to
16 get around it and issue picnic permits and everything
17 else for them to use some sort of band or loud music or
18 any type of noise just to aggravate us.
19 I know these people, because I grew up in
20 this area all my life. And I know how the friends will
21 stick together and families will stick together in that
22 area. And I know exactly what they will do.
23 Q. Okay. Thank you. I would ask you to, if
24 you could, draw an "X" where you took the second page of
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1 measurements on your own property. I don't think that's
2 been done.
3 A. Okay. It would be approximately right.
4 Q. And that's close to your house?
5 A. That's close to my house, probably 30, 40
6 feet away from my house.
7 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Let the record
8 reflect that Mr. Mann put on "X" on his property that's
9 labeled Mann on Exhibit 1.
10 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mann.
11 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you, Mr. Hearing
12 Officer.
13 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
14 MR. VAN NESS: We've got Exhibit 12 in?
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Yes.
16 MR. VAN NESS: All right. You should not
17 have an Exhibit 11.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: There's two
19 gaps. Let me check. I believe I have no Exhibit 9 and
20 no Exhibit 11.
21 MR. VAN NESS: All right. Let me go back
22 and look in my notes to see where that is. No, that's
23 correct.
24 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Good. Next
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1 witness.
2 MR. VAN NESS: The plaintiff calls David
3 Collins.
4 [Witness sworn.]
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
6 DAVID L. COLLINS
7 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
8 the part of the Complainant, testifies and says:
9 EXAMINATION
10 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
11 Q. Mr. Collins, can you state your full name
12 for the record please.
13 A. David L. Collins.
14 Q. Mr. Collins, what is your address?
15 A. 1573 North 900 East Road, Taylorville,
16 Illinois.
17 Q. Mr. Collins, are you employed outside the
18 home?
19 A. Yes, I am.
20 Q. What's the nature of your employment?
21 A. I'm the environmental director of Doctors
22 Hospital in Springfield, Illinois.
23 Q. And what does the job entail?
24 A. This job entails keeping the hospital clean
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1 more or less. I have a day shift staff and I have a
2 second shift staff.
3 Q. What are your hours of that employment?
4 A. Usually my hours is from 4:30 in the
5 morning to 4 o'clock at night.
6 Q. What time do you normally get up on a
7 workday?
8 A. 3 o'clock.
9 Q. Pardon?
10 A. 3 o'clock.
11 Q. So you would normally go to bed at what?
12 A. Usually around 8:30, quarter to 9:00,
13 9 o'clock at night. A long day.
14 Q. I'm going to ask you to look at
15 Plaintiff -- Complainant's Exhibit 1. Do you have that
16 in front of you?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. Do you know what that is?
19 A. Yes. This is a map, I guess.
20 Q. Do you recognize that as the map of the
21 area in which you live?
22 A. Mm-hmm.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: That's "yes"?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: You have to
2 answer "yes" or "no" so the court reporter can get it.
3 THE WITNESS: All right.
4 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
5 Mr. Collins.
6 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Do you agree that this
7 map is generally accurate?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And do you agree that the markings
10 indicated thereon by Mr. Logsdon and I believe Mr. Mann
11 and Mr. Abbott are generally accurate and correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. I'm going to ask you to look at the area
14 that's marked with the pink highlighter. Do you
15 recognize that as the gun club area?
16 A. Yes, I do.
17 Q. Do you recall when you -- back up.
18 When did you move into your home,
19 Mr. Collins?
20 A. I moved in there in 1986 March.
21 Q. What month?
22 A. March 13th of 1986.
23 Q. Do you recall whether there were any
24 above-ground structures in place in that property when
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1 you moved in?
2 A. No, there was not.
3 Q. Now, you testified that you lived in the
4 area since 1986. During that time, have you observed
5 changes in the area across the lake?
6 A. Yes, I have.
7 Q. Can you just very generally describe those?
8 A. Well, when I moved there in 1986, there was
9 nothing on the other side of the lake but brush, trees,
10 timber. And since that time, why, there has been a gun
11 club started over there. There's been buildings erected
12 over there, light standards put in over there.
13 Q. Now, did you ever have occasion to take
14 photographs of the -- of what we're calling the gun club
15 area?
16 A. Well, yes, I did. We were out one winter
17 there. I had bought my wife a very expensive camera,
18 and she was outside taking pictures for the photo
19 album. And it just so happens one of the pictures she
20 took back then was a picture across the lake where the
21 gun club is now.
22 Q. Were you intentionally taking a picture of
23 that area across the lake?
24 A. No, I was not.
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1 Q. There was no particular reason, was there?
2 A. No.
3 Q. What were you actually taking a picture of?
4 A. We were taking a picture of the lake, okay?
5 And just the surrounding area, all right? And also west
6 of me, we were taking pictures of that.
7 Q. So you were taking a picture of your yard
8 and the lake? You were more or less accidentally taking
9 in the area across the lake from you?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. And that would be the area where we've
12 referred to here then as the gun club area?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. I'm going to ask you, do you remember what
15 Christmas you bought that for your wife?
16 A. Yes. Let's see. Those pictures were taken
17 in '97. So it was in '96 when I bought her the camera.
18 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 13 was
19 marked for identification.]
20 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) I'm going to show you
21 what's been marked Complainant's Exhibit 13.
22 And again, Mr. Hearing Officer, I have the
23 original photograph, and then I have digital
24 reproductions.
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: The color copy
2 is fine.
3 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) And I'll ask you,
4 Mr. Collins, if that is a picture which you referred to
5 moments ago?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 MR. VAN NESS: And move for its admission.
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Exhibit 13 is
9 admitted.
10 [Complainant's Exhibit Number 13 was
11 admitted into evidence.]
12 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Now I'm going to ask you
13 to kind of describe what you see there. Can you
14 identify the property in the foreground?
15 A. Yes. On this side of the lake, which would
16 be the north side, is my property. And that's where I'm
17 standing taking the pictures of the lake. And if you go
18 across south to the lake, that is the area now where the
19 gun club exists as of now, where it was not before.
20 Q. I'm going to ask you to take that blue pen
21 that you're holding in your hand and basically indicate
22 with an "X" and a small arrow both the location where
23 the pictures were taken and the direction from which the
24 picture was taken.
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1 A. You want it on the map, sir?
2 Q. Yes, please. Let the record show that the
3 witness is placing a mark on Complainant's Exhibit
4 Number 1.
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Where did you
6 put your mark?
7 [Witness indicated.]
8 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Why don't you
9 put a "P" by that so that way we'll denote that that's
10 the photo. There's so many "Xs" on there.
11 MR. VAN NESS: All right.
12 [Witness indicated.]
13 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
14 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Thank you, Mr. Collins.
15 Now, I'm going to ask you, is the body of
16 water in the middle of the picture, I presume that is in
17 fact a piece of Lake Kincaid, is it not?
18 A. Yes, it is.
19 Q. Now, the picture appears to have been taken
20 in the wintertime; is that correct?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. That's snow on the ground, right?
23 A. Yes, it is. It was very cold.
24 Q. And I note that the trees for the most part
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1 do not have leaves on them anymore; is that correct?
2 A. No, they don't.
3 Q. So you can see pretty well, can you not,
4 through the property line across the lake from you?
5 A. Yes, most definitely.
6 Q. If you were to take a picture today at that
7 same exact same location, would it appear the same?
8 A. No, it would not.
9 Q. What would appear in that picture now?
10 A. If you were to take a picture today, you
11 would see one, two -- you'd see three buildings and four
12 big tremendous light standards over there is what you
13 would see.
14 Q. And those are the buildings and light
15 standards previously referred to by other witnesses
16 today?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Now, I'd ask you to look at the back of the
19 photograph. Do you see two sets of numbers there, sir?
20 A. Yeah, yes.
21 Q. What do you see on the left side?
22 A. I see a 04.12.97.
23 Q. And do you understand that to be the date?
24 A. Yes.
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1 Q. That would be the date the photograph was
2 developed?
3 A. Yes, it was.
4 Q. To the best of your recollection, what were
5 the first time you heard gun club activity at that site
6 across the lake?
7 A. Are you speaking of a lot of gunfire?
8 Q. I'm talking organized activity by the gun
9 club of any kind.
10 A. I'd say in '98 is when the noise of gunfire
11 started over repeatedly.
12 Q. Now, did you hear gunfire previous to that?
13 A. Maybe three to four times since I had lived
14 there since 1986. Like on a Saturday, maybe a Sunday,
15 you might hear it maybe for a half hour to an hour, and
16 then it would just disperse. And then other times you'd
17 hear people over there rabbit hunting or maybe pheasant
18 hunting.
19 Q. So three or four times in the last -- in
20 the 15 years prior to the gun club coming on the scene,
21 you might have heard some gunfire?
22 A. Yes, yes.
23 Q. Have you personally witnessed shooting
24 activity at the gun club site?
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1 A. Yes, I have. I can stand out right in my
2 yard and see them shoot over there. That's how close I
3 am.
4 Q. I am sorry?
5 A. That's how close I am.
6 Q. Have you had -- well, using the dimensions
7 on the map, I'm referring again now to Complainant's
8 Exhibit 1. Can you estimate the distance from the gun
9 club shooting area to your property?
10 A. Yes. From my property line to where
11 they're shooting is approximately 400 feet.
12 Q. 400 feet?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And from your residence, say --
15 A. I'm saying from my residence would probably
16 run maybe 425 to 450.
17 Q. And what lies between your property line
18 and the gun club?
19 A. Not a thing except a body of water.
20 Q. Do you recall Mr. Logsdon's previous
21 testimony about the frequency and duration of shooting
22 at the gun club?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Based on your own observations, do you
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1 agree with his characterizations?
2 A. Yes, I do.
3 Q. Are there any observations that you would
4 wish to make in addition to his, relative to the
5 frequency and during of shooting?
6 A. No, except just it's horrible. I mean, the
7 noise would drive you up a wall when they were doing
8 that over there, shooting constantly. And shooting all
9 times of day, all times of night. It didn't make any
10 difference to them people.
11 Q. Now, you indicated to me that your work
12 required that you go to bed around 8:30 in the morning
13 on a normal day?
14 A. Yes, it does.
15 Q. Do you get up around 3:30 in the morning?
16 A. 3 o'clock, sir.
17 Q. 3 o'clock. Has the noise coming from the
18 gun club affected your sleep?
19 A. Most definitely.
20 Q. In what way?
21 A. I don't get any sleep, period. I get up at
22 3 o'clock. I come home and like at 4:00 of an evening,
23 I go to bed. They start shooting until 11, 12 o'clock
24 at night. That affects you, my home life, okay?
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1 That affects my working style that I have
2 to -- where I work at, okay? Because you have to be
3 very bright and alert at what you're doing there, the
4 different kind of chemicals that we handle there. That
5 just is bad. It's really, really bad.
6 Q. Would you say that the sleep deprivation
7 places you or your coworkers in some additional danger?
8 A. Yes, it does. Not only my coworkers, but
9 also the patients of the hospital.
10 Q. And in what way?
11 A. In the different kind of chemicals that we
12 use, sir.
13 Q. Has the noise coming from the gun club
14 affected your use of your home?
15 A. Very much so. We used to have quite a few
16 people come out and visit us. We used to have
17 cookouts. We used to have card parties, and that just
18 don't exist.
19 Q. Why is that?
20 A. On account of the noise. They don't want
21 to come out there and sit and try to talk above the
22 noise. They don't want to sit there and play cards and
23 stuff.
24 Q. Has any one of your guests told you that?
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1 A. Yes. Yes, they have.
2 Q. Do you believe the noise coming from the
3 gun club area has affected your health, your physical
4 health?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. In what way?
7 A. Stress.
8 Q. Stressed out?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Have you taken any medication to deal with
11 stress?
12 A. Yes. I had taken some for a while, and
13 then I finally got off of it. My wife is still taking
14 medicine.
15 Q. I presume these medications were prescribed
16 by a physician?
17 A. Yes, they were.
18 Q. Were you taking such medications prior to
19 the gunfire breaking out --
20 A. No, I was not.
21 Q. -- at the gun club?
22 A. No. I'd never taken any medicine in my
23 life.
24 Q. You mentioned your wife a few moments ago.
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1 Has the noise coming from the gun club affected your
2 other family members' well-being?
3 A. Yes. It has not only affected, you know,
4 myself. It has affected my wife.
5 It has affected our grandchildren when they
6 would come out and they'd want to go fishing. And
7 they'd start shooting over there. My grandsons would
8 start crying, "Well, Grandpa, let's go in. I'm
9 afraid." Any time I would get them in the house, the
10 poor little old guys would be shaking.
11 Q. How old is he?
12 A. They were four and five years old. And
13 then they would never come back and ask Grandpa if he
14 could take them out fishing again.
15 Q. Do you go fishing now?
16 A. No, I do not, sir. I do not fish that lake
17 no more, and I used to fish it constantly.
18 Q. Did you hear the rock music last Friday
19 night?
20 A. Oh, yes. Wonderful, wonderful music.
21 Q. How did it affect you?
22 A. Well, I had went to work at 3 o'clock
23 Friday morning. I went to bed at 8:30 Friday morning.
24 At 9 o'clock, I was brought out of that bed like someone
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1 had a shotgun in my bedroom, because where our bedroom
2 sits is next to this gun club, okay? And it woke me
3 up. I thought, oh, my God, what is going on?
4 I called Mike. I said, "Okay, Michael.
5 How long are we going to have to listen to this?" He
6 said, "Well, they got a special permit until midnight."
7 Q. Do you recall what time of night it was
8 when you spoke to Mr. Logsdon?
9 A. It was around 10 o'clock.
10 Q. 10 o'clock?
11 A. A little after 10:00. Very disturbing.
12 Q. Pardon? Very disturbing?
13 A. Very disturbing. Just ungodly loud. Our
14 windows in our house were actually rattling from what
15 they were doing. And the wife suggested that we go,
16 lock the house, and go by and go get a hotel room for
17 the night.
18 Q. Did you?
19 A. No, I did not.
20 Q. You thought about it, though, didn't you?
21 A. Pardon?
22 Q. You thought about it, though, didn't you?
23 A. Yes, I did. And if it happens tomorrow
24 night, that's exactly what I will do.
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1 Q. Do you think it will happen tomorrow night?
2 A. Yes, I do.
3 Q. Why?
4 A. Because that's just how belligerent these
5 people are. They don't care for anyone else but
6 themselves.
7 Q. Have you ever talked to anyone from the gun
8 club about reducing the noise level?
9 A. No, sir, I have not. I don't believe I
10 could talk to them. I believe it would be more than
11 talking.
12 Q. From your observations, have you ever seen
13 them do anything to limit or reduce the amount of noise
14 coming off their property?
15 A. No, sir, they have never. They have never
16 done nothing whatsoever over there to reduce the sound
17 of the noise.
18 MR. VAN NESS: I have no further questions.
19 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
20 Mr. Collins.
21 Mr. Van Ness, are you going to be calling
22 Mr. Rahar?
23 MR. VAN NESS: I'm going to call
24 Mr. Binegar first.
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay,
2 excellent.
3 MR. VAN NESS: And Complainants do call
4 Mr. Binegar pursuant to his subpoena.
5 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: And I note that
6 Mr. Binegar is under subpoena. And Mr. Binegar was here
7 this morning. And Mr. Binegar is the president of the
8 gun club and left at approximately 11 o'clock and has
9 not returned and is under subpoena.
10 MR. VAN NESS: We would move for any and
11 all sanctions that the Court may deem appropriate.
12 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I can't give any
13 sanctions, but I'm sure the record will be very clear
14 that the complainants are asking for sanctions. And
15 I'll give that for the board to decide.
16 MR. VAN NESS: I should like to make a
17 statement at this time since Mr. Binegar's not
18 appearing.
19 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Go ahead,
20 Mr. Van Ness.
21 MR. VAN NESS: I'll keep it brief,
22 Mr. Hearing Officer.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
24 MR. VAN NESS: We have heard time and time
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1 again today how these complainants characterized the
2 tactics of the complainant -- of the defendant or
3 respondent, and in particular, Mr. Binegar. And I
4 should submit to the board that Mr. Binegar's absence
5 here is part and parcel and wholly consistent with his
6 disdain for both the pollution control board and the
7 rule of law in general.
8 Now, I will ask for a few minutes' time,
9 Mr. Hearing Officer, in order to bring Mr. Brett Rahar
10 to the stand.
11 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you. And
12 for the record, I'd like to echo Mr. Van Ness's
13 painting, I guess, of Mr. Binegar's actions today, based
14 on his actions during the hearing and prior to the
15 hearing.
16 We're off the record for however long you
17 need to get him.
18 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
19 [Brief break.]
20 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: We're back on
21 the record. I want the record to reflect that we've
22 been joined by Mr. Rahar. And also I'd like to have
23 these gentlemen just state their appearance.
24 MR. MARTIN: My name is David Martin,
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1 Christian County State's Attorney. And this is Brett
2 Hellinga, Assistant State's Attorney.
3 [Witness sworn.]
4 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
5 BRETT RAHAR
6 of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined on
7 the part of the Complainants, testifies and says:
8 EXAMINATION
9 QUESTIONS BY MR. VAN NESS:
10 Q. Mr. Rahar, will you state your full name
11 for the record please.
12 A. Brett Rahar.
13 Q. And what is your job title, sir?
14 A. Christian County zoning consultant.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 I'm going to show you what's been marked
17 Complainant's Exhibit Number 1, Mr. Hearing Officer.
18 Do you recognize the area depicted on that
19 map, sir?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Let me ask you, Mr. Rahar, whether the area
22 that's shown there marked with the pink highlighter,
23 whether you recognize that as the area where the
24 Southfork Gun Club operations are in place?
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1 A. I would say, yeah, approximately. It might
2 not be the best, but, yes.
3 Q. When was the first time you became aware of
4 the gun club operation at that site?
5 A. The first time I was aware of that site?
6 Q. Yes, uh-huh.
7 A. I was probably in high school. I mean, as
8 far as my official capacity, it would have been
9 when -- I'm trying to think of the exact date. I don't
10 have the exact date with me. But it's been there for a
11 while.
12 Q. Three or four years, two or three years?
13 A. Probably three or four, I'd say now.
14 Q. Do you recall when the activity at the
15 Southfork Gun Club site, the activity commenced?
16 A. Probably around that same time.
17 Q. '98, '99?
18 A. Somewhere in there.
19 Q. When did you first become aware of
20 complaints about noise coming from that area?
21 A. It would have been probably shortly
22 thereafter, the first complaints would have been.
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. You can check with the sheriff's office.
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1 They're the ones that actually took a lot of the
2 complaints to begin with.
3 Q. You did not take any complaints yourself?
4 A. I took complaints, but not -- --.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. Not at the time that this was going on.
7 Q. Let's just talk about the ones that you
8 took.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. So you received some '98, '99?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. What did you do about those?
13 A. Nothing, because the gun club, to my
14 understanding, was under a special use at the time.
15 And, you know, there's going to be noise involved with
16 the trapshooting.
17 Q. Would you describe for the record the
18 standard procedure your office uses for dealing with a
19 zoning ordinance violation.
20 A. Normally we send a letter of violation, and
21 then they contact the office, and we go from there.
22 Q. And what do you do then?
23 A. Either correct the problem or turn it over
24 to the state's attorney.
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1 Q. When you get a letter from a complainant
2 then, do you investigate?
3 A. Yes. I mean, yeah, we investigate it.
4 Q. That involves going out to the site?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And then if you find a violation, then what
7 do you do?
8 A. Talk to the state's attorney on how we're
9 going to handle the violation as far as whether we're
10 going to take them to court or whatever needs to be
11 done.
12 Q. I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you.
13 A. No, that's okay.
14 Q. In this case, did you seek legal advice
15 about whether the county could enforce the ordinance
16 against the gun club?
17 A. Yes. I mean, I sought advice back when
18 they started back up from the state's attorney at the
19 time.
20 Q. And the state's attorney at that time was
21 the one who told you that they were permitted?
22 A. Yes. I mean, the special use was still in
23 place.
24 Q. So did you ever actually go out to the site
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1 and investigate the noise?
2 A. No. The sheriff's office had went out
3 there numerous times, and I'd talked to the deputies
4 involved and the sheriff.
5 Q. But never you?
6 A. No. They never -- my office is open from
7 8:00 to 4:00, and most of the complaints on noise were
8 10:00 and after to my knowledge. I mean, that's when
9 most of the noise complaints were coming in.
10 Q. Now, are you aware that the injunction had
11 been issued in the case involving the gun club?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Could you answer
14 out loud for the court reporter, Mr. Rahar?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
16 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
17 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Do you understand that
18 the court order indicates that the 1968 attempt to
19 rezone the property was in fact void?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether any
22 residential property currently lies within 1,320 feet --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- of the gun club?
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1 A. Yes, they do.
2 Q. They do?
3 A. I'd say so from the map.
4 Q. Are you aware that the president of the
5 Southfork Gun Club is a member of the county board?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Have you ever discussed the gun club with
8 that gentleman?
9 A. Back when he first started back up, yes.
10 Q. And he first started back up again in?
11 A. '98, '99, somewhere around in there.
12 Q. Are you aware of any proposal by the gun
13 club or the village to actually mitigate noise pollution
14 on the site?
15 A. No.
16 Q. I'm sorry?
17 A. Not to my knowledge.
18 Q. If they were to propose to erect a barrier
19 or put up a berm or construct a building or anything of
20 that sort, would they have to come to your office for a
21 permit?
22 A. For building, yes; a berm, no.
23 Q. There is a building on that property now;
24 is that correct?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And did they obtain a permit from you for
3 that building?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. When did they apply for that?
6 A. I'd have to look at the records. I don't
7 have it with me when they built it. I don't think it's
8 in the file.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. I don't think I threw anything extra in
11 here, other than that was there. No.
12 Q. Do you have the file with you?
13 A. Yes, from the Southfork Gun Club.
14 Q. Yeah, thank you.
15 A. You should have that also.
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. The permit from the --
18 MR. VAN NESS: For the record, Mr. Hearing
19 Officer, referring to the fact that during discovery, we
20 did do a discovery deposition of Mr. Rahar. They did
21 provide several documents out of the file.
22 Q. And I believe at the time,
23 that was all the documents that were in the file?
24 A. Yes, that was everything.
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you. It's
2 noted.
3 Q. (By Mr. Van Ness) Are you aware of
4 recurring efforts by the county to have the gun club
5 property rezoned again now?
6 A. It's not by the county. It's by the gun
7 club. They sent the letter, I think, to Mr. Martin.
8 Q. Mr. Martin would be the state's attorney?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. I see.
11 A. And we had a zoning committee meeting on
12 that. And I believe they're trying to get an opinion on
13 whether what they were asking is even legal. That's it,
14 the last I knew.
15 Q. And that's all you know, right?
16 A. Yeah. I mean --
17 Q. Have you received any noise complaints
18 about the gun club within the last week?
19 A. Me personally? No.
20 Q. Do you know if anyone else has?
21 A. Not to my knowledge. I mean, like I said,
22 the sheriff's office is the one who gets most of the
23 complaints. That's who you'd need to talk to if there's
24 been anything there.
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1 Q. Okay. I take it, that the gun club
2 property is properly within the Village of Kincaid?
3 A. No. It's not in the village. It's on
4 village owned property. It's not in the village limits.
5 Q. If I were to conduct a rock concert or some
6 other activity emitting a considerable amount of noise,
7 would I come to -- at that property, I'm talking about
8 the gun club property -- would I come to your office for
9 a permit or would I go to the Village of Kincaid?
10 A. There is no such permit in the county for
11 rock concerts or anything else of that nature that I've
12 ever known of.
13 Q. I see. If I wanted to have a rock concert
14 in my back yard, I can do so?
15 A. In the county, there's no permit that I'm
16 aware of that would stop you, or you'd have to obtain
17 it. That's to my knowledge. I mean, I'm not saying
18 that there's something through the county clerk or some
19 other office, but not through mine.
20 Q. Does your office issue permits?
21 A. Building permits.
22 Q. Just building permits?
23 A. Special use is issued through a hearing
24 process, that type of stuff, but, yeah, that's it.
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1 Q. Do you agree that a skeet or trapshoot
2 activity, a special use for skeet or trapshooting
3 activity must have a 1,320 foot setback?
4 A. That's what our ordinance reads.
5 MR. VAN NESS: No further questions.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
7 And, Mr. Rahar, since you don't have
8 another attorney to rehabilitate you, if it was needed,
9 but I'll let you testify if you think you need to add
10 anything at all.
11 THE WITNESS: None.
12 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Thank
13 you, Mr. Rahar.
14 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
15 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you,
16 Gentlemen.
17 MR. MARTIN: Thank you.
18 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Mr. Van Ness,
19 any further witnesses?
20 MR. VAN NESS: No, Mr. Hearing Officer.
21 At this time, Complainants conclude their
22 case and are prepared to make a final statement.
23 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: If you want to
24 make that now, you --
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1 MR. VAN NESS: Yes.
2 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. I'll open
3 it up for you to make a closing argument.
4 MR. VAN NESS: I'll make it very brief.
5 Thank you, Mr. Hearing Officer.
6 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Thank you.
7 MR. VAN NESS: We believe that the record
8 today, as we indicated it would this morning, fully
9 confirms that the situation in Christian County with
10 respect to Southfork Gun Club is as bad as we say it
11 is. That is to say, that the Southfork Gun Club has
12 exhibited no interest, has expended no funds and has no
13 intention to comply with the noise laws, and has given
14 to the contrary every reason to believe that they will
15 do the opposite.
16 We fully expect that there will be a rock
17 concert tomorrow and Friday after that and the Friday
18 after that. If they do not, we'll all be shocked.
19 But the fact of the matter remains that as
20 we speak, as Mr. Rahar just noted, there is an effort
21 underway by the gun club with the collaboration of the
22 county to see to undo by special legislation what has
23 been accomplished by the Court's permanent injunction.
24 That is to say, they intend to go back and draw a
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1 regulation or an ordinance amendment so narrow as to
2 affect only a single piece of property, and solely for
3 the purpose of allowing gunshot and noise to continue as
4 it has in the past without further interference from the
5 pollution control board or anyone else.
6 You've also seen that there are persons
7 among the complainants who are intimidated and who are
8 very reluctant to come forward because of what they
9 believe to be bullying tactics by the gun club, such as
10 the rock concert music and blatant disregard of these
11 people's rights and quiet enjoyment of their homes.
12 I ask the pollution control board again to
13 impose a substantial monetary penalty, to construct a
14 very specific and enforceable cease and desist order
15 that will give these people the quiet enjoyment of their
16 homes back. This is what the law says they are entitled
17 to, and this is what the board is obligated to provide.
18 Nothing further.
19 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Okay. Thank
20 you, Mr. Van Ness.
21 Before we conclude, I do want to make sure
22 that I have all the exhibits. We've gone over it once.
23 I have admitted Exhibits 1 through 13, with the
24 exception of --
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1 MR. VAN NESS: 9 and 11.
2 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: 9 and 11, and
3 that's correct?
4 MR. VAN NESS: I believe that is correct.
5 I did have a couple of exhibits that I was going to use
6 potentially with Mr. Binegar, but since he's not here,
7 that is probably not necessary. I don't think I need to
8 ask to have them necessarily put in.
9 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: At this time,
10 I'd like to read into the record the results of our
11 off-the-record discussion concerning the filing of
12 briefs in this matter.
13 The transcript of these proceedings will be
14 available from the court reporter by October 9, 2002. I
15 will establish a public comment period of 14 days. The
16 complainant's brief will be due by October 31, 2002, and
17 the Mailbox Rule will apply.
18 MR. VAN NESS: October 31st?
19 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: Yes.
20 MR. VAN NESS: Thank you.
21 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: The respondent's
22 brief, if any, will be filed -- must be filed by
23 November 21, 2002, and the Mailbox Rule will apply.
24 The transcript of these proceedings is
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1 usually put on the board's web site within the day of
2 its availability.
3 Just, I'd just like to note briefly that
4 our web site address is www.ipcb.state.il.us.
5 All post-hearing comments must be filed in
6 accordance with section 11.628 of the board's procedural
7 rules.
8 Public comments must be filed by October
9 10, 2002.
10 The Mailbox Rule is set forth at
11 35 Illinois Administrative Code 101.102D and 101.144C
12 and will apply to any post-hearing filings.
13 Is there anything further from the parties
14 before we conclude?
15 MR. VAN NESS: No. Mr. Hearing Officer, on
16 the off chance that the respondents do in fact file a
17 brief, the complainants would request seven days in
18 which to reply.
19 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: I'll give you
20 seven days to file a reply.
21 MR. VAN NESS: A reply.
22 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: If they do file
23 from the date of their filings.
24 MR. VAN NESS: Right, right.
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1 HEARING OFFICER LANGHOFF: At this time, I
2 want to note that there are no members of the public
3 present that want to make any statements on the record.
4 I am required to make a statement as to the
5 credibility of the witnesses who testified during this
6 hearing. This statement is to be based on my legal
7 judgment and experience.
8 And, accordingly, I state that I found all
9 of the witnesses testifying to be extremely credible
10 today. Credibility is not an issue for the board to
11 consider in rendering a decision in this case.
12 At this time, I will conclude the
13 proceedings. It is Thursday, September 26, 2002 at
14 approximately 2:20 in the afternoon. And we stand
15 adjourned. I thank everyone for your participation, and
16 I wish everyone to have a good day.
17 [End of hearing.]
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1
COURT REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
2
I, Ann Marie Hollo, Certified Shorthand
3 Reporter, Registered Professional Reporter, Registered
Merit Reporter of the State of Illinois and Notary
4 Public, do hereby certify that said hearing before the
Illinois Pollution Control Board and Illinois Pollution
5 Control Board Hearing Officer Steven C. Langhoff, took
place on the 26th day of September A.D., 2002, and held
6 at the Christian County Courthouse, 2nd Floor,
Taylorville, Illinois.
7
I do hereby certify that I did take
8 stenographic notes of the proceedings and that said
notes were reduced to typewritten form under my
9 direction and supervision.
10 I do further certify that the attached and
foregoing is a true, correct and complete copy of my
11 notes and that said testimony is now herewith returned.
12 I do further certify that I am not related
in any way to any of the parties involved in this action
13 and have no interest in the outcome thereof.
14 Dated at Litchfield, Illinois, this 29th
day of September, A.D. 2002 and given under my hand and
15 seal. My commission expires April 5, 2006.
16 ____________________________
Ann Marie Hollo, CSR, RPR, RMR
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