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    1 BEFORE THE POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
    2 OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS
    3 LAND AND LAKES COMPANY (RIVER BEND )
    PRAIRIE FACILITY) )
    4 )
    vs. ) PCB 96-198
    5 )
    ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ) (Variance)
    6 AGENCY )
    7 The following is a transcript of a
    8 hearing held in the above-entitled matter, at James
    9 Thompson Center, 100 West Randolph Street, Room 11-500,
    10 Chicago, Illinois, on the 26th of July, 1996 A.D.,
    11 commencing at the hour of 10:00 o'clock a.m.
    12 BEFORE:
    MS. DEBORAH L. FRANK, Hearing Officer.
    13
    PRESENT:
    14 Mr. Emmett Dunham II, Board Member
    15 APPEARANCES:
    16 Mr. Mark V. Gurnik
    Assistant counsel
    17 Waste Enforcement
    Division of Legal Counsel
    18 2200 Churchill Road
    P. O. Box 19276
    19 Springfield, IL 62794
    appeared on behalf of the Illinois
    20 Environmental Protection Agency;
    21 Ms. Kelly A. O'Connor,
    Mr. James R. Carroll and
    22 Mr. John F. Kennedy
    Quinlan & Crisham, Ltd.
    23 161 North Clark Street
    Suite 2300
    24 Chicago, Illinois 60601
    appeared on behalf of Land and Lakes.
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 ALSO PRESENT:
    2 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
    Ms. Joyce Munie
    3 Environmental Protection Engineer
    Permit Section
    4 Bureau of Land
    5 LAND AND LAKES COMPANY
    Mr. Jay Goldstein
    6 Environmental Director
    Land and Lakes Company
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    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 INDEX
    OPENING STATEMENTS:
    2
    3 By Mr. Carroll ....................................... 6
    4 By Mr. Gurnik ........................................11
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    6
    7
    8
    9
    EXHIBITS
    10
    AGENCY
    11 EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION
    1 ...............................................12
    12
    13 AGENCY
    EXHIBITS IN EVIDENCE
    14
    15 1 ................................................13
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    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Good morning. Welcome to
    2 our hearing today in Land and Lakes versus the Illinois
    3 Environmental Protection Agency. The number is PCB
    4 96-198.
    5 I'm Debra Frank. I'm the Hearing
    6 Officer for this matter. And to my right is Emmett
    7 Dunham. He is a Board Member with the Illinois
    8 Pollution Control Board.
    9 I note for the record that it is
    10 10:45 on July 26th -- my watch is wrong -- and that we
    11 have waited the fifteen minutes because there was an
    12 objector in this matter, but seeing that there are no
    13 members of the public present, we are going to go ahead
    14 and begin. If they come in later, then they can voice
    15 whatever objection they have at that time.
    16 Noting all of that, I'll have you
    17 guys go around the room and introduce yourselves for
    18 the record and state who you're with.
    19 MR. CARROLL: My name is James Carroll. I'm with
    20 Quinlan & Crisham on behalf of Land and Lakes.
    21 MR. GOLDSTEIN: I'm Jay Goldstein. I'm
    22 Environmental Director of Land and Lakes.
    23
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    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 MS. O'CONNOR: Kelly O'Connor with Quinlan &
    2 Crisham on behalf of Land and Lakes.
    3 MR. KENNEDY: John Kennedy with Quinlan & Crisham
    4 also on behalf of Land and Lakes.
    5 MS. MUNIE: Joyce Munie, Solid Waste Unit
    6 Manager, Illinois EPA.
    7 MR. GURNIK: Mark V. Gurnik, attorney for the
    8 Illinois Environmental Protection Agency.
    9 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Why don't we go
    10 ahead then and begin.
    11 Jim, I don't know if you have -- I
    12 should say "Mr. Carroll" on the record. Do you have
    13 anything for an opening statement or how do you want to
    14 handle this?
    15 MR. CARROLL: I think maybe I'll make a short
    16 opening statement and we can go from there. How's
    17 that?
    18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay.
    19 OPENING STATEMENT
    20 BY
    21 MR. CARROLL: I think the issue that we are here
    22 before is a very narrow issue and, that is, whether
    23 Land and Lakes' Petition which seeks a variance from
    24 the filing requirements of 814.104(c) of the Illinois
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 Administrative Code should be extended for an
    2 additional period of six months.
    3 As you indicated, there was an
    4 objection from the City that was filed in this. And,
    5 for the record, we would like to renew our Motion to
    6 Strike for the purposes of the Board, not only for
    7 those records which we espoused in the motion to
    8 strike, but, also, because now we have a written
    9 document before the Board which is not subject to
    10 cross-examination, at least at this point in time
    11 because no one is here, so we would renew our motion to
    12 strike for the record.
    13 Contrary to that, I think the City
    14 did indicate that there were seven variances -- or six
    15 prior variances that were granted to Land and Lakes in
    16 this matter, and I think that's totally incorrect.
    17 This is the first variance that Land and Lakes has
    18 petitioned for in this matter. In regard to its
    19 filing, Land and Lakes feels that it has been very
    20 diligent in fulfilling the filing requirements of the
    21 Act and Regs.
    22 On March 18th, 1996, Land and Lakes
    23 did file its Petition for Variance requesting that
    24 six-month extension of time because it is currently
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 seeking and has filed, and, actually, the hearing has
    2 been completed in Dolton for local siting for a
    3 significant expansion of Land and Lakes' facility there
    4 which is known as River Bend Prairie.
    5 At the time, Land and Lakes knew that
    6 if it was going to expand that facility and file, it
    7 would be necessary for them to file a very different
    8 significant modification to its permit application, if
    9 that siting was granted.
    10 The preparation of two permit
    11 applications, both in March and subsequently, after the
    12 siting, would have involved substantial expense and
    13 justification. And possibly the second or the first
    14 filing would have become obsolete or moot, had the
    15 second one become necessary. The filing of both
    16 applications would have involved a comprehensive
    17 reengineering of the design plans for the landfill.
    18 Land and Lakes estimates that the
    19 cost of preparing a second application would have been
    20 at least $250,000, when you consider all the additional
    21 engineering costs associated with the groundwater
    22 modeling, redesigning the leachate, and gas and methane
    23 collection systems, and other major systems that would
    24 have been involved.
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 The filing of both applications would
    2 have had an affect on the Agency. The Agency would
    3 have had to review and would have had a significant
    4 increase in the amount of work because of the filing of
    5 both petitions unnecessarily, if a second one would
    6 have been filed.
    7 We are only requesting an extension
    8 of time for six months from the period of March 19th to
    9 September 19, 1996, which is now less than two months
    10 away.
    11 The granting of this variance will
    12 have no adverse impact on the environment or no adverse
    13 impact on the public health and safety.
    14 The requested variance is not
    15 inconsistent with any federal laws and regulations.
    16 The Environmental Protection Agency
    17 in its response that's present before the Board
    18 generally agrees with Land and Lakes's facts as they
    19 have set forth and is not opposed to the granting of a
    20 variance. And I think that's evidenced not only by
    21 their filing with the Board, but also a stipulation
    22 that we will enter into this morning.
    23 Whether or not Land and Lakes and,
    24 most importantly, I think whether or not Land and Lakes
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 does receive local siting for the expansion of its
    2 facility, Land and Lakes will file its significant
    3 modification for its permit on or before September
    4 19th, so we will comply with the schedule.
    5 To require Land and Lakes to file
    6 these two significant modifications within a very short
    7 six-month period of time, I think, would cause Land and
    8 Lakes to suffer an arbitrary and unreasonable hardship
    9 because of the expense and time involved, when only one
    10 application would be necessary.
    11 I believe that Land and Lakes' Dolton
    12 facility has been found to be in general compliance
    13 with all Land and Lakes's -- Agency's inspections and
    14 that there has been and there will be no prejudice to
    15 the People of the State of Illinois, the County of
    16 Cook, the City of Chicago, or the City of Dolton if
    17 such a significant modification is granted by the
    18 Board.
    19 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay.
    20 MR. CARROLL: For those reasons we would ask the
    21 Board to grant our six-month extension of time.
    22 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Mr. Gurnik, did you have
    23 any type of opening?
    24 OPENING STATEMENT
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 BY
    2 MR. GURNIK: For an opening statement, I would
    3 simply note that the Agency filed its recommendation on
    4 April 9th, 1996, and its position has not changed since
    5 that date and it will stand upon the recommendation
    6 that is given to the Board.
    7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Then, let's go
    8 ahead and begin.
    9 MR. CARROLL: I guess the only evidence that we
    10 would have in the Petitioner's case would be to stand
    11 on the petition. And, as you may recall, there is an
    12 Affidavit of Jay Goldstein, who is here, that has been
    13 attested to and notarized and we would stand on that.
    14 In addition, we would like to present
    15 to the Hearing Officer, the Statement of Agreed Facts
    16 that we have reached with -- I don't know how many
    17 copies you want, but this is the original copy. The
    18 Statement of Agreed Facts that we have reached with the
    19 Agency in this matter.
    20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: I'm going to just call
    21 this Joint Exhibit 1 for the record.
    22 And if you have extra copies, that
    23 would be great. It would save the Board from --
    24 MR. CARROLL: I would be happy to. How many more
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 would you like?
    2 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Do you have seven?
    3 MR. CARROLL: I'll check. One, two, three, four,
    4 five, six.
    5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: And we have one here.
    6 MR. CARROLL: We have seven.
    7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Great.
    8 MR. CARROLL: Seven copies for the Board, so
    9 there won't be any need for us to file it separately?
    10 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Right. And there
    11 wouldn't be, anyway, because this is an exhibit. But
    12 this way there will be copies for all of the Board
    13 members.
    14 (Whereupon, Agency Exhibit No. 1
    15 was marked for identification.)
    16 MR. CARROLL: Based on the petition that you have
    17 before us with the affidavit and the stipulation of
    18 agreed facts with the Agency that we presented before
    19 the Board today, the Petitioner would rest.
    20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay.
    21 The exhibit is entered. There is no
    22 objection, I'm assuming, since it is a Joint Exhibit.
    23 (Said document, heretofore marked
    24 Agency Exhibit No. 1 for
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 identification, was admitted into
    2 evidence, to wit, as follows:)
    3 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Does the Agency have any
    4 witnesses or anything?
    5 MR. GURNIK: The Agency does not have any
    6 witnesses.
    7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Well, it is five
    8 to eleven and there are still no members of the public
    9 here, so, at this time, unless you have any
    10 questions --
    11 BOARD MEMBER DUNHAM: No.
    12 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: -- the hearing is
    13 adjourned. Thank you all for coming.
    14 Before we do that -- Thanks.
    15 Do you guys wish to file any briefs
    16 in this matter?
    17 MR. CARROLL: I think, given the nature of the
    18 record -- Would the record close today if we said no?
    19 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Well, what I am going to
    20 do, since there was an objection and no one has showed
    21 up, I am going to have a week public comment period,
    22 just in case there is anyone who wishes to make a
    23 statement, so we will have a public comment period.
    24 If you want, what we could do is
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 reserve, maybe, simultaneous briefs that are due a week
    2 later just in case something happens in public
    3 comments.
    4 MR. CARROLL: I think that's perfectly fine.
    5 If there is no public comment, we do
    6 not anticipate filing any post-hearing briefs.
    7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Well, then, we'll
    8 close public comment on the 2nd. And we'll have
    9 simultaneous briefs due, if any, on August 9th.
    10 MR. CARROLL: Does the Agency anticipate a
    11 post-hearing brief?
    12 MR. GURNIK: At this point in time, no, the
    13 Agency does not. However, if there are any public
    14 comments that it feels need to be addressed, it
    15 appreciates the opportunity to do so.
    16 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. And the decision,
    17 deadline, I believe, it's due September 6th.
    18 MR. CARROLL: September 6th, I believe. There's
    19 a September 5th Board hearing and then --
    20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: September 5th Board
    21 meeting so that is about a month for the Board. And,
    22 since you are not anticipating filing, that should not
    23 be any problem.
    24 Also, we did not have any witnesses
    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 so I don't have a credibility statement at this point.
    2 The hearing is adjourned. Thank you
    3 very much.
    4 (HEARING CLOSED.)
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    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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    1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
    ) SS:
    2 COUNTY OF C O O K )
    3 Sally A. Guardado hereby certifies that
    4 she is the Certified Shorthand Reporter who reported in
    5 shorthand the proceedings had in the above-entitled
    6 matter, and that the foregoing is a true and correct
    7 transcript of said proceedings.
    8
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    10 Certified Shorthand Reporter
    Notary Public, County of Cook, State of Illinois
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    Sally A. Guardado, C.S.R. * (708) 614-7742

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