BEFORE THE ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD
JOSEPH BOGACZ,
)
)
Petitioner,
)
)
vs.
) No. PCB-96-47
)
COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY,
)
)
Respondent.
)
The following is a transcript of a hearing held
in the above-entitled matter taken stenographically by
MICHELLE M. DOSE, C.S.R., a Notary Public within and for
the County of Cook and State of Illinois, before JUNE C.
EDVENSON, ESQ., Hearing Officer, at the Lake Zurich
Village Hall, 70 East Main Street, Lake Zurich, Illinois,
commencing at 10:00 a.m. on the 21st day of November,
1996.
2
1 HEARING TAKEN BEFORE:
2
3
ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD, by
MS. JUNE C. EDVENSON, ESQ., Hearing Officer
4
James R. Thompson Center
100 West Randolph Street, Suite 11-500
5
Chicago, Illinois 60601
(312) 814-6930
6
7
8 APPEARANCES:
9
MR. JOSEPH BOGACZ, Petitioner
30432 North Highway 12
10
Round Lake, Illinois 60073
(815) 385-3264
11
Appearing Pro Se;
12
13
HOPKINS & SUTTER, by
14
MR. CHRISTOPHER W. ZIBART
MR. E. GLENN RIPPIE
15
Three First National Plaza
Chicago, Illinois 60602
16
(312) 558-4214
17
Appearing on behalf of the Respondent.
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
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1
I N D E X
2
COMPLAINANT'S CASE-IN-CHIEF
3
Page
Pro Se Case-in-Chief by Mr. Bogacz
15
4 Cross-Examination by Mr. Rippie
46
5
OPENING STATEMENTS
6
Page
Opening Statement by Mr. Zibart
82
7
8 WITNESS
JOSEPH BOGACZ
9
Page
Direct Examination by Mr. Rippie
84
10
11 WITNESS
LINDA S. MANNING
12
Page
Direct Examination by Mr. Rippie
91
13 Cross-Examination by Mr. Bogacz
114
14
WITNESS
15 GARY B. JOHNSON, Ph.D.
Page
16 Direct Examination by Mr. Zibart
124
Cross-Examination by Mr. Bogacz
152
17 Redirect Examination by Mr. Zibart
165
Recross-Examination by Mr. Bogacz
167
18
19
E X H I B I T S
20
(Complainant's Exhibits marked for identification.)
21
Page
22 Complainant's Exhibit No. 1
21
Complainant's Exhibit No. 2
22
23 Complainant's Exhibit No. 3
26
Complainant's Exhibit No. 4
27
24 Complainant's Exhibit No. 5
29
Complainant's Exhibit No. 6
33
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1
E X H I B I T S
(Continuing.)
2
(Complainant's Exhibits marked for identification.)
3
Page
4 Complainant's Exhibit No. 7
34
Complainant's Exhibit No. 8
35
5 Complainant's Exhibit No. 9
40
Complainant's Exhibit No. 10
41
6 Complainant's Exhibit No. 11
44
Complainant's Exhibit No. 12
79
7
(Complainant's Exhibits admitted into evidence.)
8
Page
9 Complainant's Exhibit Nos. 1-12
81
10
11
(Respondent's Exhibits marked for identification.)
12
Page
Respondent's Exhibit No. 1
48
13 Respondent's Exhibit No. 2
51
Respondent's Exhibit No. 3
53
14 Respondent's Exhibit No. 4
54
Respondent's Exhibit No. 5
57
15 Respondent's Exhibit No. 6
85
Respondent's Exhibit No. 7
94
16 Respondent's Exhibit No. 8
95
Respondent's Exhibit No. 9
100
17 Respondent's Exhibit No. 10
102
Respondent's Exhibit No. 11
104
18 Respondent's Exhibit No. 12
126
Respondent's Exhibit No. 13
130
19 Respondent's Exhibit No. 14
138
Respondent's Exhibit No. 15
148
20
(Respondent's Exhibits admitted into evidence.)
21
Page
22 Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 1-6
90
Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 7-11
114
23 Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 12-15
151
24
L.A. REPORTING
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5
1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Good morning
2
and welcome. This is a contested case hearing
3
conducted by the Illinois Pollution Control
4
Board, Case No. PCB-96-47 entitled Joseph
5
Bogacz, the Plaintiff, versus Commonwealth
6
Edison Company, the Respondent.
7
The proceeding is in the nature of an
8
enforcement action. My name is June
9
Edvenson. I'm the Board's Hearing Officer for
10
this case.
11
I will now request that the Complainant
12
party and counsel for the Respondent party
13
identify themselves for the record.
14
Would you state your name, please?
15
MR. BOGACZ: Joseph Bogacz. I'm the --
16
pro se.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very
18
much.
19
MR. ZIBART: Christopher Zibart,
20
Z-i-b-a-r-t, of Hopkins & Sutter for the
21
Respondent, Commonwealth Edison Company.
22
MR. RIPPIE: And Glenn Rippie, also of
23
Hopkins & Sutter for the Respondent,
24
Commonwealth Edison.
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
2
you.
3
Let the record reflect that a number of
4
additional persons are here in attendance at
5
our hearing. And for those that are not
6
witnesses, I would like to request that they
7
sign in on a pad of paper, which I will pass
8
around.
9
All right. I believe we have some
10
preliminary activities to discuss, and the
11
first one is a request that we received this
12
morning from Mr. Bogacz related to the use of
13
his personal tape recorder.
14
Mr. Bogacz, would you like to state your
15
request for the record?
16
MR. BOGACZ: Yes. Pursuant to Rules
17
101 -- I lost it here -- oh, pursuant to
18
the -- a rule within the Rules and Regulations
19
of the Illinois Pollution Control Board, there
20
is an allowance for tape recording of the
21
hearing providing it does not disrupt the
22
hearing itself and that it not be broadcast in
23
any way to the news media and so forth. I,
24
therefore, request to be allowed to tape
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1
record the hearing.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. And --
3
MR. BOGACZ: Can I get a glass of water
4
or something? I've got a dry throat or
5
something.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Off the record.
7
(A short recess was taken.)
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: Back on the
9
record.
10
All right. Is there a response from the
11
Respondent related to the request?
12
MR. RIPPIE: The Respondent has no
13
objection to the request with two provisos.
14
First of all, it's our understanding that
15
the request is to tape those portions of the
16
proceedings which are the official
17
proceedings, that is, the portions that are on
18
the record.
19
Secondly, under state statute and
20
pursuant to the purposes of the Board's rule,
21
the company believes that it is inappropriate
22
to tape record, to audio tape record, portions
23
of the testimony of a witness that personally
24
objects to being taped. I have not instructed
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1
our witnesses to object, I have not advised
2
them to object; however, I think it's
3
appropriate that each witness be asked whether
4
they are personally objecting to having their
5
testimony being taped at the time they take
6
the stand.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you,
8
Mr. Rippie. I agree. I would like to permit
9
the taping to occur; however, if a witness who
10
is coming onto the stand objects to that, then
11
we will go off the record to discuss whether
12
the witness should be in a position to be
13
forced to have themselves taped.
14
I have asked the witnesses preliminarily
15
when we discussed this subject off the record
16
if they wouldn't make themselves available for
17
taping in this manner under the conditions set
18
forth, and so let the record reflect that.
19
The second matter we have preliminary to
20
starting the hearing has to do with a motion
21
which is being filed by the Complainant, and
22
the motion is entitled Motion to Include
23
Evidence from Absent Subpoenaed Witness. I
24
received a fax copy of this motion yesterday
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1
afternoon -- excuse me -- two afternoons prior
2
to the hearing, and the motion has been mailed
3
to the clerk of the Board for filing at the
4
Board.
5
I believe Respondent has also received a
6
copy of the motion and have prepared for our
7
receipt today a response to the motion. That
8
response will be filed by me with the clerk of
9
the Board when I return to the Board
10
offices.
11
The Respondent opposes the motion to
12
include evidence from the absent witness. The
13
Complainant requests that the hearing officer
14
rule on this motion today at the hearing.
15
The motion proposed by the Complainant
16
requests that information that he will be
17
receiving as the result of a FOIA request to
18
the U.S. EPA be included with other evidence
19
that he is presenting in this case. It
20
appears that the evidence would be what he
21
calls documentary evidence in the nature of
22
documents which he has not yet obtained. The
23
evidence is related to a FOIA request which is
24
being processed by U.S. EPA as the result of a
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1
subpoena request that Mr. Bogacz served on
2
U.S. EPA.
3
The Respondent opposes the motion on the
4
grounds that the evidence that would be
5
received would not give the Respondent an
6
opportunity to respond, which would be a
7
violation of the hearing process, and would
8
not give them the opportunity to cross examine
9
any witness for whom the evidence was
10
admitted. The Respondent makes other
11
arguments.
12
Now, what I would like to propose is a
13
case schedule which would permit the documents
14
that Mr. Bogacz would be receiving from U.S.
15
EPA to be entertained for inclusion in the
16
record of this case as he would like and would
17
also give the Respondent an opportunity to
18
respond to those documents in writing by
19
filing with the Board.
20
I also would like to suggest that the
21
granting of the motion by Mr. Bogacz be
22
limited in certain ways. Mr. Bogacz requests
23
that, quote, any documentary evidence obtained
24
in accordance with a FOIA request to the U.S.
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1
EPA, end quote, be included with the other
2
evidence that he presents in the case.
3
I must be assured that that evidence is
4
material that is relevant to the subject of
5
this proceeding, and, therefore, I would need
6
to review it to identify its relevancy to this
7
specific proceeding before I would be
8
interested in including it in the record of
9
the case.
10
If the evidence appears to be relevant to
11
this proceeding and to the subject matter of
12
this proceeding, I would be interested in
13
having that be a part of the record of the
14
proceeding for consideration by the Board.
15
This evidence would be in the form of
16
documents. I would not be interested in
17
entertaining witnesses' testimony that are off
18
the record of a hearing, in other words.
19
Therefore, I am considering permitting
20
documents that you received from U.S. EPA be
21
entered into evidence in this proceeding, but
22
not statements by witnesses that did not
23
appear at the hearing.
24
Various forms of documents are admissible
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1
as evidence in technical proceedings and in
2
enforcement proceedings, and the Board
3
appreciates the ability to review these in
4
their consideration of the cases. Therefore,
5
I will permit such documents to be entered
6
into evidence if they are received by
7
Mr. Bogacz with respect to his FOIA request
8
from U.S. EPA.
9
Now, because we do not know when these
10
items will be received, it will be difficult
11
for us to develop a case schedule that will
12
identify the date when the record is closed
13
until we have further information on this.
14
However, at the time that we finish receiving
15
documents from U.S. EPA related to the FOIA
16
request, I would like to give counsel for
17
Commonwealth Edison an opportunity to respond
18
to those documents in writing. Therefore, any
19
briefing schedule we develop would have to be
20
developed around the conclusion of the receipt
21
of documents that the Complainant wishes to
22
propose as admissible evidence in the case.
23
I believe this answer is Respondent's
24
chief concern as noted in the response, and
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1
that it also accommodates the Complainant's
2
interest in submitting documents that have not
3
yet been received at this point in time.
4
All right. Thank you. At this point,
5
let's proceed with the order of the hearing.
6
MR. ZIBART: Madam Hearing Officer, can
7
I ask a question about the ruling or ask for a
8
clarification?
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes.
10
MR. ZIBART: First, could it be clear
11
that there would be no more FOIA requests to
12
EPA; that the documents that are covered by
13
the Hearing Officer's ruling would cover the
14
FOIA request that's already been filed?
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, that can be a
16
condition of the ruling.
17
MR. ZIBART: And my other clarification
18
would be Commonwealth Edison Company would
19
like to take a look at the documents that are
20
received by Mr. Bogacz, all of the documents.
21
And in the interest of completeness, we would
22
ask that we too be allowed to submit some of
23
those same documents into the record; in other
24
words, we would be allowed to see the
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1
documents that U.S. EPA produces to Mr. Bogacz
2
and make sure that all of the ones that we are
3
interested in are also submitted into the
4
record as well.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: I believe it would
6
be appropriate for you to be permitted to
7
submit responsive documents as well as submit
8
copies of those other documents in your
9
filing.
10
MR. BOGACZ: I see no problem with that.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Then at
12
this point in time, we will, I hope, be able
13
to accomplish today the aspects of the case
14
that need to be heard in a hearing situation,
15
and we are gathered for that purpose today.
16
In the order of the hearing, we will
17
first hear from the Complainant who proposes
18
to testify himself in this case.
19
And will the Complainant be sworn.
20
(Complainant sworn.)
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, if you
22
would like to sit at the table there with your
23
documents, that would be fine.
24
MR. BOGACZ: Okay. Thank you.
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1
(Whereupon the following is the
2
Complainant's Case-in-Chief, pro se.)
3
MR. BOGACZ: I appreciate the time that
4
you are providing a citizen to present his
5
case regarding pollution.
6
My case concerns air pollution caused by
7
ozone being produced by high voltage
8
transmission lines from the Respondent.
9
Currently, there are no permits or
10
regulations and so forth covering the
11
Respondent's high voltage lines as they relate
12
to the Clean Air Act or the Illinois Pollution
13
Control Board or the U.S. EPA or the Illinois
14
EPA.
15
I'll show a need for controlling the
16
ozone from these high voltage lines, and that
17
the ozone is an air pollutant, and that the
18
Respondent has caused or contributed to or
19
sustained the air pollution at its immediate
20
locations and/or the ambient air in the
21
surrounding area of Chicago.
22
The Respondent should stop polluting the
23
atmosphere just like everybody else is being
24
controlled in one way or another by permits
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1
and regulations. It appears that the
2
Respondent is operating without any -- or the
3
Respondent is operating arbitrarily in all its
4
operations as far as they apply to the high
5
voltage lines. And they are being
6
uncontrolled at the moment, and the Board
7
should initiate, consider, and adapt the
8
appropriate regulations applicable to the
9
Respondent; and along with that because of
10
their causing air pollution in the atmosphere,
11
penalties should be assessed against the
12
Respondent for polluting the air during the
13
period that the high voltage lines have been
14
in operation and at least until -- or from the
15
point of inception of the Clean Air Act.
16
That basically is my case. That's my
17
preliminary statement.
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. I did
19
not propose opening statements.
20
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, I'm sorry.
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: Perhaps at this
22
point I would ask if Commonwealth Edison has
23
an opening statement.
24
MR. ZIBART: We can make an opening
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1
statement now or perhaps as Mr. Bogacz's case
2
is narrative in nature, perhaps we should
3
defer the opening statement to the beginning
4
of our case-in-chief.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. That's
6
fine.
7
All right, then, Mr. Bogacz, you may
8
proceed. We would be interested in seeing any
9
documents that you have that propose evidence
10
of this, and we would also be interested in
11
any evidentuary testimony that you have to
12
give of a factual or scientific nature.
13
MR. BOGACZ: Okay. I'll start off
14
basically with documents I have submitted in
15
response to the interrogatories from the
16
Respondent and also my Answers to
17
Interrogatories from the Respondent.
18
Basically, I'd start off with
19
establishing that ozone is an air pollutant.
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: Can you refer us to
21
documents in the record as you proceed?
22
MR. BOGACZ: Yes. I'm going to try. I
23
don't know how -- I think there's a list that
24
I provided to the Respondent of all the
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1
documents that I had supplied them.
2
Well, let me start off with newspaper
3
articles, this large ad that I provided the
4
Respondent that was in reply to something in
5
the nature of documents describing whether
6
ozone was an air pollutant or something to
7
that effect. This article is --
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: Can you give the
9
title and the date of the article?
10
MR. BOGACZ: Yes. This is an article
11
published in the Northwest Herald in McHenry
12
County, and it's titled "Ozone Poses New
13
Challenge."
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record
15
reflect that this is a document that was in
16
response to Respondent's document request
17
No. 1.
18
MR. BOGACZ: It's dated July 23, 1995.
19
I'll read certain excerpts from the article
20
rather than going through all the -- Some of
21
the material in here is really not relevant,
22
but --
23
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Examiner, if
24
it is the Complainant's intention to read this
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1
article into the record and/or to offer this
2
newspaper article into evidence, the Company
3
does have an objection to it. I don't know
4
exactly what the Complainant's intention is,
5
whether he just intends to read it as
6
reference or as the basis of something else or
7
whether it's his intention to offer this as
8
substantive evidence.
9
MR. BOGACZ: My intention is to offer it
10
as substantive evidence, and --
11
MR. RIPPIE: We obviously don't have any
12
objection to the Complainant or any other
13
party submitting written materials of a
14
scientific or technical nature, studies,
15
reports and the like of scientific and
16
technical nature. This falls far short of
17
that criteria. And I might add that much of
18
what the Complainant did provide to us was
19
material that may qualify under that standard.
20
This, however, is a newspaper article by
21
an individual named Karen Rivedal. We don't
22
know what Ms. Rivedal's qualifications are.
23
She's not available to be cross-examined nor
24
are any of the other individuals named or
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1
unnamed which are referred to in the articles
2
available for cross-examination. She is
3
certainly -- The author is certainly not an
4
air pollution expert. She has no
5
qualifications stated in the article nor has
6
the Complainant attempted to offer any
7
qualifications for it nor has the Complainant
8
attempted to offer any evidence that this type
9
of material is authoritative, peer reviewed,
10
scientific, technical or is the kind of
11
material that policy makers and others rely on
12
in examining the appropriate courses of action
13
to take in regulating ozone.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you, Counsel.
15
MR. BOGACZ: May I respond?
16
THE HEARING OFFICER: I would like to ask
17
the Complainant not to read from the article,
18
and I will accept the article into evidence.
19
The Board will determine the voracity and
20
reliability of newspaper articles. The Board
21
members are frequently reading articles on
22
topics of interest to their areas of concern.
23
Mr. Bogacz, you are welcome to make
24
observations about the article --
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1
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- without reading
3
the article.
4
MR. ZIBART: Will that -- Excuse me.
5
Will that exhibit be marked or numbered in
6
some way for reference?
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: We can identify
8
that as Complainant's Exhibit 1.
9
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 1
10
marked for identification.)
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: You may continue,
12
Mr. Bogacz.
13
MR. BOGACZ: This particular article
14
explains how ozone is an air pollutant. It is
15
technical in nature in that it quotes
16
authorities from the EPA and other individuals
17
within governmental units in the Chicago area
18
and McHenry County specifically that they are
19
working on programs to resolve the ozone air
20
pollution problem because of the nonattainment
21
mandate provided to various governments and
22
companies and individuals by the U.S. EPA.
23
And, essentially, it states that -- or
24
the article covers air pollutant -- or ozone
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1
as an air pollutant in that it's harmful, it
2
affects people with lung problems and asthma,
3
and that there are certain ozone alert days
4
designated when ozone is at a very high level
5
in the Chicago area. And it is information
6
given to the general public through a
7
newspaper, and the quotes within the article
8
are made by individuals who are technical
9
specialists in their agency or company who
10
handle air pollution problems and know about
11
ozone being a very bad air pollutant.
12
The next document I'd like to submit for
13
evidence is a brochure entitled, "Is There
14
Anything I Can Do To Protect Myself From
15
Harmful -- Harmful Effects of Air Pollution."
16
This is distributed by the Lake County Health
17
Department, and it's published by the Lake
18
County Lung Association, Lake County,
19
Illinois.
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: And we will number
21
this as Exhibit No. 2.
22
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 2
23
marked for identification.)
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: Are there any
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1
observations you would like to make about this
2
document?
3
MR. BOGACZ: Within the document, it
4
describes certain pollution standards index
5
charts showing various levels of index values
6
which affect the health of persons in the
7
Chicago area.
8
It states that the Illinois Environmental
9
Protection Agency uses the highest air level
10
to -- or measured by monitors in each -- in
11
certain sectors of the Chicago area to publish
12
to the public and the news media to alert them
13
of harmful levels of air pollution; in other
14
words, ozone.
15
The article states that the air
16
pollutants measured in Illinois are -- one of
17
them is ozone. And the highest reading for
18
ozone is at a certain very high level. It
19
describes how they determine the index value
20
as described in this brochure.
21
Also within the brochure, it describes
22
people who should -- who are affected by this
23
pollution as described by these index values
24
of pollution; the elderly, infants and
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1
children, asthmatics, people with lung
2
problems, heart problems, persons with their
3
cardiovascular diseases and so forth. And
4
then there is certain characteristics that are
5
described in here that are the symptoms of
6
high pollution levels, eye and ear, throat
7
irritation and headaches, coughing, wheezing.
8
In fact, there may be air pollution in here
9
right now. I don't know.
10
But, anyway, that basically describes
11
this particular brochure.
12
The next --
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, I would
14
like to ask you not to describe the items.
15
The items are themselves in the record. I
16
asked you if you had any comments about them.
17
I would like to ask you not to describe them
18
for the record.
19
MR. BOGACZ: Any comments?
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes. Did you have
21
any testimony of your own that you wish to add
22
to the introduction of the document?
23
MR. BOGACZ: Well, I am basically adding
24
my own testimony.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Proceed.
2
MR. BOGACZ: There is another document
3
entitled, "What's in the Air" published by the
4
Chicago Area Transportation Study in Chicago,
5
Illinois.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do I have a copy of
7
that?
8
MR. BOGACZ: You should have. The
9
subtitle of the document is, "The Ozone
10
Problem in Northeastern, Illinois."
11
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, we
12
don't see that document in the materials we
13
have either.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
15
MR. RIPPIE: If we could just perhaps go
16
off the record for just a second and take a
17
look at it.
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. We'll
19
go off the record so we can share the document
20
with the Respondent.
21
(Discussion off the record.)
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record
23
reflect that neither Respondent nor Hearing
24
Officer have received the brochure item which
L.A. REPORTING
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26
1
Mr. Bogacz identified.
2
Mr. Bogacz, you are welcome to discuss
3
that if copies of it are made available to the
4
parties prior so that they can look at it.
5
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Since that has not
7
been done, are you going to forego entering
8
that document?
9
MR. BOGACZ: Am I going to what?
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Forego entering
11
that document?
12
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
14
MR. BOGACZ: The next document I have is
15
a brochure entitled, "Ozone Action Days: A
16
Special Alert for People with Asthma and Other
17
Respiratory Problems."
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: This will be
19
numbered Exhibit 3.
20
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 3
21
marked for identification.)
22
MR. BOGACZ: This is a document published
23
by the U.S. EPA in Chicago, Illinois. It
24
basically describes the ozone pollution in the
L.A. REPORTING
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27
1
area of Chicago and the difference in
2
stratospheric ozone and ground level ozone.
3
And it describes how ozone is a problem and
4
particular -- and of particular concern to
5
people of -- who have certain illnesses and
6
the general public, also people that have
7
asthma problems and lung problems, and
8
describes also how people can protect themself
9
or what they should do to protect themselves
10
from this pollution.
11
The next document I have is "What You Can
12
Do To Reduce Air Pollution."
13
Maybe to move things along, could the
14
Respondent indicate whether that is something
15
that was on the list? I don't have my list
16
right here. If you object to it --
17
MR. RIPPIE: Yes. We have that one.
18
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: That will be
20
Exhibit 4.
21
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 4
22
marked for identification.)
23
MR. BOGACZ: This is an Internet document
24
which I obtained, and it's from the United
L.A. REPORTING
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28
1
States Environmental Protection Agency.
2
It's -- Let's see. The document number is
3
EPA450-K-92-002.
4
On the front page, the first page, it
5
lists what you will learn about by reading
6
this document, and one of them is the health
7
effects of air pollution. It lists six
8
pollutants that the U.S. EPA considers their
9
responsibility, and one of them is ozone.
10
And it states basically that there are
11
health problems associated with breathing in
12
of ozone via the atmosphere. It basically
13
describes various characteristics and symptoms
14
people may obtain from breathing in the ozone
15
which involve coughing and hard breathing,
16
headaches and so forth.
17
This document also describes how the
18
plant life on earth is of harm by ozone. And
19
it also says that ozone is the most harmful
20
pollutant to plant life.
21
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, if I
22
may, I would just like to note two things.
23
First of all, the portion of the document
24
which is being offered states on its face that
L.A. REPORTING
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29
1
it is the first four pages of twenty. The
2
Respondent doesn't object to admission of
3
these four pages as opposed to the complete
4
twenty, but we do want to make it clear on the
5
record that this is not the complete document
6
that the Complainant is offering.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you, Counsel.
8
MR. BOGACZ: The next document I have is
9
a document -- or pages from a book titled, The
10
Green Encyclopedia. The authors are Irene
11
Frank and David Brownstone, 1992.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: This will be
13
numbered Exhibit 4 -- 5. Excuse me.
14
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 5
15
marked for identification.)
16
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have any
17
observations to make about this document
18
without describing it?
19
MR. BOGACZ: The document basically
20
describes ozone as an air pollutant and that
21
it is very injurious -- injurious to human
22
beings and plant life on earth.
23
Respiratory problems are prevalent by
24
breathing in the ozone, and it also describes
L.A. REPORTING
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30
1
various bad effects on lung tissue which ozone
2
apparently affects.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: I show a
4
three-page document; is that correct?
5
MR. BOGACZ: Well, yeah. The document --
6
or the book in one of the pages describes how
7
ozone is a very virulent gas.
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: Are you discussing
9
a page that is here in this document?
10
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you.
12
Do you have any observations about this
13
document?
14
MR. BOGACZ: Yes. This particular
15
document describes how ozone is a very
16
poisonous or virulent gas and is --
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, do you
18
have any comments about the document itself?
19
MR. BOGACZ: Do I have any -- the
20
comments -- As far as describing the
21
pollution, air pollution, and the fact that
22
ozone is an air pollutant, it is a very good
23
document.
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: And do you know
L.A. REPORTING
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31
1
anything about the authors of the document?
2
MR. BOGACZ: Not really, no.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
4
MR. BOGACZ: And the -- one of the --
5
some of the information within this document
6
describes how ozone is more poisonous than
7
mustard gas, which was used in World War I as
8
a combat -- during combat.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, I have
10
to ask you not to make statements about what
11
the document says without referring to the
12
specific piece of the document that says that.
13
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, you want the page
14
number?
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: Otherwise, we are
16
in a position where we cannot verify that what
17
you are saying is correct.
18
MR. BOGACZ: Okay. You want me to refer
19
to the page number then?
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: For instance, you
21
made a statement about mustard gas. Where is
22
that statement in this document?
23
MR. BOGACZ: It's listed on page 8 or
24
sheet 8. I don't know if it's the third sheet
L.A. REPORTING
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32
1
or --
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: I have three pages
3
here, and none of them are numbered page 8.
4
All right. The first page appears to have an
5
eight in the upper corner.
6
MR. BOGACZ: 231. I'm sorry.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Where on
8
page 231?
9
MR. BOGACZ: At the very top.
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
11
you.
12
MR. RIPPIE: I would also note for the
13
record, again, that this appears to be not
14
even a complete excerpt. As Mr. Bogacz just
15
noted, the first page of his submission
16
appears to terminate with an eight, and then
17
it proceeds to page 231 --
18
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
19
MR. RIPPIE: -- and an unnumbered page.
20
Also, the text on the first page does not
21
flow over to the text on the second page.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you,
23
Counsel.
24
MR. BOGACZ: The next document is a
L.A. REPORTING
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33
1
technical publication from the United States
2
Environmental Protection Agency. This was
3
obtained on the Internet. The title of it is
4
"Ozone, Good Up, High Bad, Nearby."
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be
6
Exhibit 6.
7
MR. BOGACZ: What?
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: That will be
9
Exhibit 6.
10
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 6
11
marked for identification.)
12
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, okay.
13
This is a very good document in that it
14
describes the health and environmental effects
15
of ground level ozone. It basically describes
16
the same information that was described
17
previously in the documents about ozone being
18
an air pollutant and that it's very harmful to
19
the environment and to human beings.
20
The next document I'd like to present is
21
another technical publication from NASA,
22
National Aeronautical Space Administration.
23
The title of it is "Ozone, What Is It and Why
24
Do We Care About It."
L.A. REPORTING
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34
1
THE HEARING OFFICER: That will be
2
numbered item 7.
3
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 7
4
marked for identification.)
5
MR. BOGACZ: This is another Internet
6
document. It too is a very good document in
7
that it alerts the public to ozone as being a
8
very big problem on earth and the various
9
health effects such as affecting the lungs and
10
asthma and the heart are one of the -- is one
11
of the byproducts of breathing in ozone, and
12
ozone is a bad type of gas to have in the
13
atmosphere and that it is an air pollutant.
14
The next document I have is a document
15
titled "Target Summary Air Quality Health and
16
Risk Assessment." This is a document from the
17
Electric Power Research Institute, EPRI. It
18
was obtained on the Internet.
19
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Examiner, I
20
think we have -- if we could go off the record
21
again to see if we can locate a copy of this
22
document. I cannot find it on the schedule.
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: Off the record to
24
find the document.
L.A. REPORTING
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35
1
(Discussion off the record.)
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record
3
show that we have looked at this document
4
which was not previously shared with the
5
Hearing Officer and Respondent.
6
Could you give the title of the document
7
again, Mr. Bogacz?
8
MR. BOGACZ: This is a document from the
9
EPRI, Electric Power Research Institute. It's
10
titled "Target Summary Air Quality Health and
11
Risk Assessment." This was obtained on the
12
Internet.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: That will be
14
Exhibit 8.
15
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 8
16
marked for identification.)
17
MR. RIPPIE: Mr. Bogacz, because we don't
18
have a copy of that document, could you
19
provide us with the Internet address so that
20
we could look at the full document?
21
I also, as long as we are noting this,
22
just want to note that the last two Internet
23
documents that have been marked as Exhibits 6
24
and 7 have been incomplete collections of
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
36
1
pages.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: That is correct.
3
I will also have to take the copy that
4
you have here today with me.
5
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
6
I don't know. For some reason, this one
7
does not have the Internet address on here,
8
but I'll -- It might be.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: We can make sure
10
that Respondent receives a copy of this.
11
MR. BOGACZ: Somewhere on the EPRI.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: You may proceed.
13
MR. BOGACZ: Okay. This document is
14
published by a Research Institute, the EPRI,
15
which provides advice as to environmental and
16
other factors to the electric power industry
17
which includes the Respondent. It's a very
18
good document in that it describes various
19
criteria of established air pollutants, and
20
one of them is ozone, and that the industry
21
should be concerned about it and do everything
22
in their --
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: If you would not
24
repeat what the document states.
L.A. REPORTING
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37
1
MR. BOGACZ: No, no. I mean, not word by
2
word, no.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, do you
4
have any comments about the document?
5
MR. BOGACZ: Well, the document is an
6
apparent advisement to the electric power
7
industry, and it's very good and it describes
8
the responsibilities of the electric power
9
industry to minimize or eliminate air
10
pollution in their operations.
11
The next document I have is a few pages
12
from what is called -- the title of the
13
document is entitled "Air Quality Criteria for
14
Ozone and Related Photochemical Oxidants."
15
This is a United States EPA document.
16
THE HEARING OFFICER: Has that document
17
been given to the Respondent and the Officer?
18
MR. BOGACZ: I believe so, yes.
19
MR. RIPPIE: There is an additional
20
matter which I should bring to your attention,
21
Madam Hearing Officer.
22
This is a -- This is not from the actual
23
document. It is from a preliminary draft.
24
And if you will look on the face of the
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
38
1
document --
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: I don't have the
3
document.
4
MR. RIPPIE: There isn't -- There isn't a
5
title, ma'am. And it's -- I think it was
6
attached to the copy --
7
MR. BOGACZ: I think I wrote in there,
8
you know, the title on it on the second page.
9
MR. RIPPIE: Right.
10
MR. BOGACZ: Some notes on, yeah, that
11
it's a draft.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Oh, okay. This is
13
the document which on its face simply
14
identifies itself by a series of alphabet
15
letters, AQCFOARPOII.
16
MR. RIPPIE: The Agency has, as you will
17
see, on both the pages marked 2-5 and 3-127,
18
which the Complainant has included. I believe
19
it's the second and third pages of these
20
documents. It makes it clear that what the
21
Complainant is offering are pages from a
22
preliminary review draft under the Agency's
23
designation. This draft is not for quotation
24
or citation, and I on that basis object to
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
39
1
it's admission. If he cares to admit the
2
final report, I wouldn't have any objection.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have any
4
response?
5
MR. BOGACZ: Well, it is a document
6
being considered or ultimately adopted, in
7
essence, by U.S. EPA. I have no evidence that
8
it's not going to be -- it wasn't adopted or
9
it's not going to be adopted, but I'm offering
10
it as a -- as evidence that the subject of
11
ozone is being considered by the U.S. EPA.
12
MR. RIPPIE: Would -- I'm sorry.
13
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
14
MR. RIPPIE: I would have -- Well, the
15
purpose of offering this exhibit is for more
16
than just proving that the subject of ozone is
17
under consideration by U.S. EPA. We all know
18
that to be true.
19
Administrative agencies charged with
20
enforcement of pollution regulations and
21
indeed agencies charged with all manner of
22
technical and scientific issues regularly
23
release preliminary drafts of documents for
24
review by other agencies and by the scientific
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
40
1
community. Those documents are customarily
2
designated as this one is and not for citation
3
or quotation, and the reason for that is
4
apparent.
5
If they could be cited and quoted as much
6
as the Complainant is doing here, the
7
agency's positions would be attributed to the
8
agency that were not its final position, and
9
that's why the agencies designate these drafts
10
not for quotation and citation; and on that
11
basis, we object to its use.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you,
13
Counsel.
14
The Board regularly sees drafts of
15
documents from the IEPA and the U.S. EPA, and
16
the Board can also determine the voracity and
17
the reliability of the information provided in
18
those documents.
19
I am going to permit the introduction of
20
this document into evidence, but I am going to
21
forbid its photocopying by the public. This
22
will be Exhibit 9.
23
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 9
24
marked for identification.)
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
41
1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have any
2
comments you wish to make about this document,
3
Mr. Bogacz, without repeating what is in the
4
document?
5
MR. BOGACZ: Well, it basically --
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm sorry, sir. I
7
am going to have to stop you if you are going
8
to try to tell me what the document says.
9
MR. BOGACZ: The document is a very good
10
document in describing ozone and the concern
11
of the U.S. EPA in controlling it, and that's
12
all I can say about it right now.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thanks, sir.
14
MR. BOGACZ: The next document I'd like
15
to present is a document copy from the
16
Encyclopedia of Britannica, Volume 16,
17
Copyright 1967, specifically, the subject of
18
ozone.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: And that would be
20
Exhibit 10.
21
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 10
22
marked for identification.)
23
MR. BOGACZ: This document is, well,
24
basically a dictionary definition of ozone and
L.A. REPORTING
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42
1
then all its characteristics and as to whether
2
it's harmful to human beings or the
3
environment. It's just one of many
4
definitions available to the public, and that
5
finishes that.
6
The next portion of my presentation, I'd
7
like to offer evidence of Commonwealth Edison
8
producing ozone, the air pollutant, and I'd
9
like to offer all these -- all the documents
10
that I received from the Respondent in
11
response to my interrogatory. I'd like to
12
have that entered as evidence.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Is there any
14
objection to the introduction of those
15
documents into evidence?
16
MR. RIPPIE: There are supplemental
17
responses to those as well.
18
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
19
MR. RIPPIE: Is it your intention,
20
Mr. Bogacz, to offer both the original and
21
supplemental responses?
22
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
23
MR. RIPPIE: Then we have no objection.
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. I believe
L.A. REPORTING
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43
1
the filings that we are referring to were
2
identified by the following titles; and if you
3
will assist me in identifying whether I
4
inadvertently fail to mention one, I will
5
appreciate it.
6
The first one being Commonwealth Edison's
7
Answers to Complainant's Interrogatories,
8
comma, Requests for Admissions of Fact and
9
Documents. I received that on April 2nd.
10
The second being Respondent's
11
Supplemental Answers to Complainant's
12
Interrogatory No. 2. I received that on
13
August 13th.
14
The third being Respondent's Supplemental
15
Answers to Complainant's Interrogatory
16
No. 20. I received that on October 15th.
17
And I forgot to mention one I received
18
earlier, Respondent's Supplemental Answers to
19
Complainant's Interrogatories Nos. 24 and 25,
20
which I received April 9th.
21
Are there any others I have not
22
mentioned?
23
MR. RIPPIE: That's a complete
24
identification.
L.A. REPORTING
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44
1
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
2
you, very much.
3
Those will be entered into evidence as
4
Complainant's Exhibit 11.
5
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 11
6
marked for identification.)
7
MR. BOGACZ: Now, all those documents not
8
only show that Commonwealth Edison produces
9
ozone by their generating electricity through
10
their high voltage transmission lines, but it
11
causes air pollution and sustains air
12
pollution and contributes to air pollution.
13
That essentially is my particular
14
case-in-chief right now.
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. At this
16
point in time then, Mr. Bogacz, you are
17
subject to cross-examination by Respondent's
18
counsel.
19
MR. BOGACZ: I didn't quite hear you.
20
I'm sorry.
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: I said at this
22
point in time, Mr. Bogacz, you would be
23
subject to cross-examination by Respondent's
24
counsel --
L.A. REPORTING
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45
1
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- on statements
3
that you have been made as part of your
4
testimony.
5
Before we do that, why don't we take
6
about five minutes, and then we'll come back
7
and do that.
8
And then it appears that our schedule
9
today will mean that we will take a lunch
10
break and we will come back after the lunch
11
break and have Respondent's case-in-chief.
12
And I do appreciate the fact that you
13
have a number of individuals with you today.
14
The Board is very interested in this topical
15
area, and thank you.
16
We'll come back on the record in five
17
minutes.
18
(A short recess was taken.)
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Back
20
on the record.
21
We will proceed now with the
22
cross-examination of Mr. Bogacz on his
23
testimony by counsel for the Respondent. And
24
if I have the need to ask any clarifying
L.A. REPORTING
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46
1
questions after that, then I will take that
2
opportunity for the Board.
3
So, Counsel, you may proceed.
4
MR. RIPPIE: Mr. Bogacz, my name is Glenn
5
Rippie. We've met before several years ago.
6
I'll be asking you a few questions about your
7
case on behalf of my client.
8
CROSS-EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. RIPPIE:
10
Q. It's correct, is it not, that prior to filing
11 your complaint before the Pollution Control Board, you
12 sought the advice of some other agencies on the question
13 of transmission lines and ozone?
14
A. Yes, I did.
15
Q. One of those agencies was the United States
16 Environmental Protection Agency?
17
A. I believe so. I don't know if I really sought
18 advice. I don't -- I don't understand what you mean by
19 advice.
20
Q. Well --
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: Could you clarify
22
your question?
23
MR. RIPPIE: Certainly.
24
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
47
1 BY MR. RIPPIE:
2
Q. Mr. Bogacz, am I correct that you wrote to
3 the administrator of the U.S. EPA informing her of your
4 concerns and asking U.S. EPA to provide you with
5 information and/or measurements of ozone levels that you
6 contend that were related to the transmission lines?
7
A. I believe I did, yes.
8
Q. And you also contacted the Illinois
9 Environmental Protection Agency?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. And you contacted those agencies because you
12 believe that they were authoritative?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. Now, U.S. EPA didn't respond to your letter
15 within 19 days, after which time you wrote a letter to
16 U.S. Senator Paul Simon; am I correct?
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Can we be more
18
specific about the dates of the letters in
19
question?
20
MR. RIPPIE: Sure.
21 BY MR. RIPPIE:
22
Q. Mr. Bogacz, you contacted Administrator
23 Browner in writing on July 28, 1995; is that correct?
24
A. I believe so, yeah.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
Q. And on August 17, 1995, not having heard back
2 from Administrator Browner, you wrote to Senator Paul
3 Simon requesting, quote, his assistance, unquote, in
4 obtaining a response from the Agency?
5
A. I believe so, yes.
6
Q. And the Agency provided you a response to your
7 inquiry through the offices of Mr. -- Senator Simon?
8
A. Yes.
9
Q. I'm going to show you a document which I will
10 ask to be marked Commonwealth Edison Exhibit No. 1. It's
11 a document that you have previously produced to the
12 Company. I will also provide a copy to the Hearing
13 Officer.
14
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 1
15
marked for identification.)
16 BY MR. RIPPIE:
17
Q. Mr. Bogacz, is that a copy of the document
18 which the U.S. EPA forwarded to Senator Simon for delivery
19 to you in response to your inquiries?
20
A. It appears to be, yes.
21
Q. Attached to that letter are materials that the
22 EPA presented along with its letter to Senator Simon in
23 response to your inquiry?
24
A. Yes.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
Q. And that is page 68 of a larger document?
2
A. Right, yes.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Counsel, what is
4
the relation of this avenue of inquiry to
5
Mr. Bogacz's case-in-chief testimony or isn't
6
this part of your own case-in-chief?
7
MR. RIPPIE: Well, Mr. Bogacz, I believe,
8
expressed the testimony and would be required
9
to express the testimony that ozone was
10
produced in material quantities by the
11
activities of the Respondent of which he is
12
complaining, and this goes to that question.
13
It also goes to -- Well, it goes to that
14
element of the Respondent's case.
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. I'll
16
let you proceed then.
17 BY MR. RIPPIE:
18
Q. Mr. Bogacz, have you had an opportunity to
19 review the study that the U.S. EPA referred to in its
20 September 15, 1995 letter to Mr. Simon, to Senator Simon,
21 that was forwarded on to you in response to your inquiry?
22
A. I don't quite understand. Are you asking if I
23 have reviewed all these studies that are listed on this
24 page or just this particular page?
L.A. REPORTING
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50
1
Q. Okay. You had an opportunity to review the
2 study of which this was a part, of which the third page is
3 a part?
4
A. The study. That they list? No.
5
Q. Let me try to be even clearer.
6
The third page of their response is page 68 of
7 a study, of a report. Have you reviewed that report?
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: I believe the
9
report is referred to in the letter on the
10
previous page; am I correct?
11
MR. RIPPIE: Yes.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: The report you're
13
referring to is entitled "Electrical and
14
Biological Effects of Transmission Lines, A
15
Review."
16
MR. RIPPIE: That's the study I am
17
referring to.
18
MR. BOGACZ: Wait a minute.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, have
20
you reviewed the study entitled --
21
MR. BOGACZ: No, I haven't reviewed that
22
other than this page, which is part of that
23
report apparently.
24
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51
1 BY MR. RIPPIE:
2
Q. Mr. Bogacz, I'm going to show you a document
3 which I'm going to mark Commonwealth Edison Exhibit
4 No. 2.
5
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 2
6
marked for identification.)
7 BY MR. RIPPIE:
8
Q. Can you tell the Hearing Officer and the Board
9 whether that is the study that's referred to in U.S. EPA's
10 response in your inquiry?
11
A. It appears to be.
12
Q. Now, you -- I'm sorry.
13
A. Let me check the page here.
14
Yes. It appears to be the study they refer
15 to.
16
Q. And it is fair to say that the conclusion in
17 the portion of the U.S. EPA study that the Agency referred
18 to in responding to your inquiry concluded that ozone
19 concentrations produced by transmission lines appear to be
20 too low to have any significant effects on humans, animals
21 or plants. That was the --
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Can you identify
23
the page you are reading from, Mr. Rippie?
24
MR. RIPPIE: Certainly. That is the last
L.A. REPORTING
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1
sentence on page 68. That was the excerpt
2
that the Agency sent.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you.
4 BY MR. BOGACZ:
5
A. Yes. That's what it appears to say, yes.
6
Q. Mr. Bogacz, there were also some studies that
7 U.S. EPA's document referred to. I'm, again, referring to
8 the second to the last paragraph on that page 68 that was
9 sent to you by the Agency -- the third to the last
10 paragraph. I'm sorry.
11
Do you see the paragraph I'm referring to?
12
A. Which one is that, in the joint study?
13
Q. It's the paragraph that begins -- It's the
14 third to the last paragraph of the page that the Agency
15 sent to you in response to your inquiry. It begins when
16 this review was first prepared in 1975. And then it
17 identifies some studies that were prepared in response to
18 questions about this subject.
19
A. Oh, okay. I was looking at the letter. Yes.
20
Q. Have you reviewed those studies at any time?
21
A. Other than knowing about them by this
22 document, I haven't really studied it, no.
23
Q. You were made aware of them, though, because
24 they were referred to by the U.S. EPA's response?
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1
A. Yeah.
2
Q. I will show you a copy of a document I'm
3 going to mark Commonwealth Edison Company Exhibit No. 3.
4 It's a study of the principal author of which is Barry
5 Scott-Walton, United States Department of Energy.
6
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 3
7
marked for identification.)
8 BY MR. RIPPIE:
9
Q. I ask you, Mr. Bogacz, if that is one of the
10 studies that the United States Environmental Protection
11 Agency referred to in response to your inquiry?
12
A. The United States Department -- or United
13 States Environmental Protection Agency did not refer to
14 this document. The Department of Energy did.
15
Q. Let me be clearer then.
16
U.S. EPA sent you a page of a report that
17 references this as one of the studies on the subject?
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: Are you referring
19
again to the page you were referring to
20
previously --
21
MR. RIPPIE: Yes.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- Mr. Rippie?
23
MR. RIPPIE: The third to the last
24
paragraph that I've referred Mr. Bogacz to
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1
that identifies studies on this subject.
2 BY THE WITNESS:
3
A. Would you repeat that last question again?
4
Q. Sure. Is this one of the studies that are
5 referred to --
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record
7
reflect that this appears to be one of the
8
studies that is referred to on page 68, slash,
9
69 of the document.
10 BY MR. RIPPIE:
11
Q. Mr. Bogacz, I'm going to show you a second
12 document -- or a third document, which I will mark
13 Commonwealth Edison Company Exhibit No. 4.
14
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 4
15
marked for identification.)
16 BY MR. RIPPIE:
17
Q. And I ask you, is this also one of the studies
18 identified in the paragraph of U.S. EPA's response that we
19 have been discussing?
20
A. I don't see any of these, other than the
21 names -- there's a name on there. Potential environmental
22 effects -- You're referring to this paragraph, right, when
23 this review was prepared?
24
Q. Uh-huh. And one of the studies identified in
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1 there is Janes' from 1980.
2
A. Yeah.
3
Q. It says the study prepared by David E. Janes
4 in June of 1980 on ozone production -- well, on a variety
5 of environmental effects, if any, on transmission lines.
6
A. Well, I presume that they are referring to
7 Mr. David -- or David E. Janes, but I really can't confirm
8 whether those are the documents. I mean, there's nothing
9 really identifying -- I mean, there's no number or
10 anything.
11
Q. Well, Mr. Bogacz --
12
A. Other than the name on the one document and
13 another name on another document.
14
Q. Okay. Can we at least agree that it's the
15 same name and same date?
16
A. Yes. The same dates are there.
17
Q. Okay.
18
A. Whether they are the same documents or refer
19 to the same documents, I'm not quite sure.
20
Q. It's the same name, the same date, and it's
21 also the same subject; right?
22
A. Well, the title's not listed on -- for either
23 one of these documents in this page 68 paragraph, so I
24 can't say that those -- these documents are listed in
L.A. REPORTING
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1 this -- on page 68.
2
Q. Okay. Mr. Bogacz, please, I'm trying to do
3 this as quickly as I can. It's a very precise question.
4 It's the same --
5
A. And I'm asking for a precise description.
6
Q. It's the same author, the same date, and the
7 same subject matter, namely, environmental effects, if
8 any, of high voltage transmission lines; correct?
9
A. No.
10
Q. Can you --
11
A. There is nothing in this paragraph that says
12 that whatsoever.
13
Q. Well, EPA was responding to your inquiry about
14 environmental effects of high voltage transmission lines;
15 am I correct?
16
A. Yes.
17
Q. And Com Ed Exhibit 4 is a study by Mr. David
18 Janes published in 1980 on environmental effects of high
19 voltage transmission lines, right?
20
A. I believe so, yes.
21
Q. And the EPA's response to you identifies a
22 1980 study by Mr. Janes on this subject in their response
23 to your inquiry?
24
A. I, again, must correct you. U.S. EPA did not
L.A. REPORTING
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57
1 identify. The Department of Energy has identified these
2 documents.
3
Q. The page attached to that response identifies
4 it?
5
A. The page obtained from the Department of
6 Energy and given to the United States Environmental
7 Protection Agency describes those documents.
8
Q. Okay. Thank you.
9
I'm going to show you a document that's been
10 marked Com Ed Exhibit No. 5.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: I will be happy to
12
label the exhibits, Counsel.
13
MR. RIPPIE: Oh, I'm -- Whatever is
14
simplest. I'm sorry.
15
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 5
16
marked for identification.)
17 BY MR. RIPPIE:
18
Q. Mr. Bogacz, would you agree that Com Ed
19 Exhibit 5 is a study conducted in 1991 by Drs. Bracken and
20 Gabriel, and that such a study is referred to in the U.S.
21 EPA response to your inquiry?
22
A. It appears that that's the document that is
23 referred in the Department of Energy document which was
24 provided to the U.S. EPA.
L.A. REPORTING
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58
1
Q. Mr. Bogacz, is there any doubt in your mind
2 that these four studies, Com Ed Exhibits 2 through 5, are
3 scientific or technical reports on the effects, if any, of
4 high voltage transmission lines?
5
A. It appears that they are some sort of
6 technical research and/or engineering studies.
7
Q. Mr. Bogacz, it's true, is it not, that the
8 United States Environmental Protection Agency has never
9 sent you a document that states that high voltage
10 transmission lines produce material quantities of ozone?
11
A. Well, what do you mean by material?
12
Q. The word material or significant appears in
13 their statement.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: You can answer that
15
to the best of your ability, Mr. Bogacz.
16
MR. BOGACZ: Yeah. I'm just reading
17
something.
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: You need to be
19
responsive to the question.
20 BY MR. BOGACZ:
21
A. As to material production, no.
22
Q. In fact, everything that U.S. EPA has ever
23 sent you is consistent with the conclusion on the last
24 sentence of Com Ed Exhibit 1, namely, that ozone
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59
1 concentrations produced by transmission lines appear to be
2 too low to have any significant effects on an animals,
3 plant, or humans?
4
A. I would have to object to -- I'm not -- That's
5 a conclusion at this point.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you please
7
state that as a question?
8
MR. RIPPIE: Sure.
9 BY MR. RIPPIE:
10
Q. Isn't it true that U.S. EPA has never sent
11 you any materials that are inconsistent with the statement
12 made on the last sentence of their response, namely, that
13 ozone concentrations produced by transmission lines appear
14 to be too low to have any effect on humans, plants or
15 animals?
16
A. That they haven't sent me? I don't -- I
17 didn't quite get that again.
18
Q. I'll try to make it simpler.
19
U.S. EPA has never sent you any document -- I
20 will phrase it as a question.
21
Has U.S. EPA ever sent you any document that
22 states that ozone produced by transmission lines has any
23 significant effect on humans, plants or animals?
24
A. That's correct.
L.A. REPORTING
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60
1
Q. They have not?
2
A. They have not specifically, no.
3
Q. Now, you also asked the Illinois EPA to come
4 out and make some measurements of ozone around your
5 property; correct?
6
A. Yes.
7
Q. And two environmental protection specialists
8 from the Air Monitoring Section of the IEPA Bureau of Air
9 came out and visited your property; am I correct?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. And they conducted ozone measurements on your
12 property?
13
A. Yes. It appears that they did.
14
Q. And the IEPA environmental protection
15 specialists were unable to find any elevated levels of
16 ozone on your property or near the transmission lines
17 whatsoever?
18
A. I have no information to indicate that they
19 didn't or did.
20
Q. They did not -- Mr. Bogacz, you met those two
21 individuals; am I correct?
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. And you spoke with them?
24
A. Yes.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you please
2
make your statements questions, Counsel?
3 BY MR. RIPPIE:
4
Q. And did you speak with them?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. Did you speak with them both before and after
7 they completed their measurements?
8
A. To a certain extent.
9
Q. Did those individuals tell you that they were
10 able to measure any elevated concentrations of ozone on
11 your property or near the transmission lines?
12
A. They indicated to me indefinite results and
13 that they'd probably have to come back again to verify and
14 make some other studies to come up with a final report.
15
Q. Mr. Bogacz, isn't it a fact that they told you
16 that when they were out measuring on your property, they
17 were unable to detect any elevated levels of ozone?
18
A. No.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's pursue this
20
line of inquiry by best evidence, if you wish
21
to do that at a later time. I think we are
22
talking about the statements of individuals
23
that are not before us, and we are talking
24
about an event that Mr. Bogacz did not refer
L.A. REPORTING
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62
1
to in his case-in-chief.
2
MR. BOGACZ: I know. That's -- I'll
3
object to his line of questioning because I
4
didn't mention anything at all about testing
5
or anything, so -- I thought his questions
6
were to ask me questions referring to what I
7
presented thus far. I haven't heard anything
8
yet.
9
MR. RIPPIE: Well, Mr. Bogacz made
10
allegations in his complaint to the Board
11
about levels of ozone produced by transmission
12
lines, and I am certainly entitled to question
13
him on that subject. I appreciate --
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: And you are entitled
15
to call him during your case-in-chief.
16
MR. RIPPIE: If that's your preference, I
17
will consider pursuing this line of
18
questioning further on our case.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be more
20
proper from the standpoint of the order of
21
hearing.
22
MR. BOGACZ: I mean, this line of
23
questioning is -- has nothing to do anything
24
with anything I presented specifically. Each
L.A. REPORTING
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63
1
document -- You're supposed to have a
2
question, you know, that I can respond to that
3
refers to the document.
4
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz --
5
MR. BOGACZ: I'm going off onto
6
completely different subjects here.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, your
8
objection has already been noted.
9
MR. BOGACZ: Thank you.
10 BY MR. RIPPIE:
11
Q. Mr. Bogacz, you admitted into evidence a
12 packet of brochures and other Web page materials as
13 Exhibits 1 through 10; am I correct?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Do any of those materials mention high voltage
16 transmission lines as a source of ozone?
17
A. No.
18
Q. Do any of them mention high voltage
19 transmission lines at all?
20
A. Not specifically.
21
Q. I take it then your answer is that they do not
22 mention high voltage transmission lines?
23
A. My answer --
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: To the best of your
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1
knowledge.
2 BY MR. BOGACZ:
3
A. To the best of my knowledge from the
4 information that I have seen in here, they indicate that
5 the phenomena of ozone being produced by electrical
6 discharge is within some of these documents.
7
MR. RIPPIE: It's very -- Madam Hearing
8
Officer, I'll try to pose the question again.
9 BY MR. RIPPIE:
10
Q. I'm not asking you about sparking,
11 Mr. Bogacz. I'm asking you whether any of the documents
12 that you submitted as Exhibits 1 through 10 mention
13 transmission lines at all?
14
A. Not that I can recall.
15
Q. Now, Mr. Bogacz, you also provided some
16 additional materials to us in discovery which you didn't
17 admit into evidence or didn't offer into evidence; am I
18 correct?
19
A. Could you be a little more specific?
20
Q. Sure. You provided us with some other
21 Internet pages that identify some other --
22
A. It's quite possible.
23
Q. -- sources of ozone?
24
A. Right.
L.A. REPORTING
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65
1
MR. RIPPIE: Let me ask the Hearing
2
Officer whether you would prefer that we, for
3
procedural purposes, pursued this as part of
4
the Company's case? It's -- I think it's
5
probably within the limits of what the
6
Complainant's burden of proof is in testing
7
the appropriateness of the relief the
8
Complainant requests; but if the Board is
9
going to have any procedural discomfort with
10
this at all, I am happy to do this as part of
11
the Company's case.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, what do you
13
propose to inquire about at this time,
14
Mr. Rippie?
15
MR. RIPPIE: Well, I intend to inquire of
16
the witness about the emission of ozone by
17
other sources and how the allegations of his
18
complaint that he is in some way injured by
19
what he terms to be pollution caused by
20
transmission lines relates to those other
21
sources.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, I'll let you
23
proceed.
24
L.A. REPORTING
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66
1 BY MR. RIPPIE:
2
Q. Mr. Bogacz, you are aware that ozone can be
3 produced both directly and by the action of sunlight on
4 other chemicals in the air?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. And amongst the direct sources of ozone are,
7 for example, the use of ozone gas as a means of purifying
8 drinking water?
9
A. Yes.
10
Q. And that, in fact, was a document that you
11 produced to Commonwealth Edison in discovery. There was a
12 document that referred to the use of ozone as a water
13 purification agent?
14
A. If could you show me that.
15
Q. Sure. I'll be happy to. It's a document
16 entitled "Bommersbach Marketing International, Ozone Point
17 of Entry Water Purification Systems."
18
A. Yeah.
19
Q. And you are aware that ozone is also produced
20 by photocopying machines, laser printers, and other
21 electrostatic devices?
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. Is ozone also produced by arc welding?
24
A. I believe so.
L.A. REPORTING
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67
1
Q. And is ozone produced in the manufacture of
2 white paper in the bleaching process?
3
A. I'm not quite familiar with that one.
4
Q. Okay. Putting aside white paper, are you also
5 familiar with some of the indirect sources of ozone,
6 namely, the sources of chemicals that when exposed to
7 sunlight can produce ozone in the atmosphere?
8
A. Are you speaking of the photochemical process?
9
Q. Sure, sources of --
10
A. Yeah.
11
Q. -- common --
12
A. Yes.
13
Q. Okay. And those would include -- do those
14 include both household products such as automotive
15 cleaners, waxes, polishes, hair spray, and health and
16 beauty products? If you don't know, you --
17
A. I'm not quite sure whether I'm familiar with
18 that part of it.
19
Q. Are you familiar with the fact that fireplaces
20 and wood burning stoves produce ozone precursors?
21
A. It quite possibly might.
22
Q. How about barbecue pits?
23
A. Possible.
24
Q. Small --
L.A. REPORTING
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68
1
A. You mean the burning of barbecue charcoal and
2 so forth?
3
Q. Yes.
4
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, just
5
answer the question directly whether you are
6
or are not familiar with that.
7
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
8 BY MR. RIPPIE:
9
Q. How about lawn mowers and other small gasoline
10 engines?
11
A. Oh, yes.
12
Q. Now, Mr. Bogacz, do you propose that
13 Commonwealth Edison as a result of your complaint in this
14 case be directed to -- and I believe I'm using your
15 words -- underground or otherwise keep their transmission
16 lines from having contact with air?
17
A. Am I proposing that essentially?
18
Q. Is that the relief you're asking of the Board?
19
A. It's a possible request, although there might
20 be others that they might -- the Board may think of or
21 somebody else.
22
Q. I'm just asking you, Mr. Bogacz, whether that
23 is the relief that you request from the Board?
24
A. Well, it's the most obvious relief at the
L.A. REPORTING
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69
1 moment.
2
Q. And, in fact, that was the relief that you
3 identified in response to interrogatory No. 7 of
4 Commonwealth Edison which inquired what you asked the
5 Board to do. If I'm correct, your answer was burial of
6 lines or other methods to prevent direct exposure to air.
7 Is that your answer?
8
A. I believe so, yes.
9
Q. Now, do you propose -- Let me ask the question
10 this way, Mr. Bogacz.
11
Do you believe that the use of ozone as a
12 water purification device should be prevented by the
13 Pollution Control Board?
14
A. I think I'm going to have to object to that
15 question. I mean, it has nothing to do with --
16
MR. RIPPIE: If I can respond.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Please.
18
MR. RIPPIE: Mr. Bogacz has asked the
19
Board to take specific remedial action both in
20
his complaint and his responses. It is the
21
Company's contention that there exists, and we
22
will demonstrate this in our case-in-chief,
23
studies on the subject of ozone plans and how
24
it should best be controlled and that those
L.A. REPORTING
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1
plans for the cost effective control of ozone
2
do not include transmission lines.
3
I am entitled to inquire of the
4
Complainant as to whether or not it is his
5
position that any source of ozone, no matter
6
how beneficial and no matter what the costs of
7
control are, should be regulated, and that's
8
all I'm trying to do.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a
10
response, Mr. Bogacz?
11
MR. BOGACZ: What?
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a
13
response to counsel's argument?
14
MR. BOGACZ: Well, I don't see how that
15
relates to the -- my complaint in that I'm --
16
I have nothing in my complaint about other
17
sources of ozone. I specifically mention high
18
voltage transmission lines as the polluter of
19
the atmosphere and -- by producing ozone and
20
other sources of possible ozone creation.
21
Whether it be a precursor or direct or
22
otherwise, I really can't answer anything to
23
that.
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: The objection is
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1
sustained.
2
MR. RIPPIE: May I inquire of the Hearing
3
Officer whether that ruling is a function of
4
the fact that Mr. Bogacz's -- Mr. Bogacz is on
5
cross-examination?
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes, it is.
7
In other words, Counsel, you are welcome
8
to bring evidence of this nature up in your
9
case-in-chief.
10
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, at
11
this point then, I would like to terminate my
12
cross-examination of Mr. Bogacz.
13
Just so no one is surprised, it's my
14
intention then to also call him as a witness
15
in the Company's case-in-chief to inquire
16
briefly on the regulatory policy issues.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Did you intend to
18
do that today?
19
MR. RIPPIE: Yes.
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Mr. Bogacz,
21
would you mind being asked questions again
22
today by counsel for Commonwealth Edison?
23
MR. BOGACZ: No. If that's the way it
24
works out, fine.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Procedurally, that
2
would be more correct for us to do that.
3
MR. BOGACZ: Right. I mean, let's see.
4
Well, I don't know what's next there.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: What is next is any
6
further witnesses that you might have here
7
today, which -- Do you have any further
8
witnesses here today?
9
MR. BOGACZ: Not at this time.
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Then we have
11
discussed your inquiry about receipt of
12
documents related to your FOIA request with
13
U.S. EPA, and we ruled on that this morning.
14
So, at this time, I think we will take a
15
recess for lunch, and we'll assume at this
16
time that Complainant's case-in-chief is
17
concluded. Is that correct?
18
MR. BOGACZ: Is it possible to introduce
19
more evidence -- or documents rather --
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: The documents that
21
we discussed, yes.
22
MR. BOGACZ: -- I may think of or --
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: The documents that
24
we discussed, yes.
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1
MR. BOGACZ: I don't recall -- Let's
2
see. I entered in all the documents and
3
information regarding interrogatories from me;
4
all the Respondent's answers, in other words.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: Those are now part
6
of the record.
7
MR. BOGACZ: Huh?
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: Those are now part
9
of the record.
10
MR. BOGACZ: Okay. Now, all the
11
documents that I provided in response to the
12
Respondent I wish to enter as evidence.
13
MR. RIPPIE: I'm not sure which documents
14
Mr. Bogacz is referring.
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: He's referring to
16
his responses to your interrogatories.
17
MR. RIPPIE: There is material in those
18
interrogatories which is calculated to lead to
19
the revelation of relevant and admissible
20
evidence, but which is not in and of itself
21
relevant.
22
MR. BOGACZ: Well, some of those document
23
I've -- I have been -- I presented earlier
24
this morning.
L.A. REPORTING
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74
1
MR. RIPPIE: And we had no objection to
2
the admission of relevant documents.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Excuse me. Some of
4
the documents you presented earlier this
5
morning were not the documents that you are
6
talking about right now, Mr. Bogacz.
7
What you just asked about was the
8
documents that you gave to the Company in
9
response to their questions of you.
10
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: The documents that
12
were entered as Exhibit 11 were the Company's
13
responses to your questions, not your
14
responses to their questions. Those are two
15
separate sets of documents.
16
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: What are you now
18
asking?
19
MR. BOGACZ: Well, the -- Essentially,
20
that's what I've been using, some of the
21
documents that I presented to the Respondent
22
in answer to their interrogatory.
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: We have not had
24
those documents referred to in the hearing
L.A. REPORTING
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75
1
until now.
2
Would you like to have those documents
3
entered into the record of the hearing as an
4
exhibit number?
5
MR. BOGACZ: I don't know exactly how
6
many there are, but is there a way of
7
generalizing, you know, from one number to
8
another or all of the documents that were
9
submitted?
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Could you answer
11
the question? Would you like to have those
12
documents entered into the record --
13
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- at the hearing
15
as an exhibit number?
16
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.
18
Counsel, would you have an objection to
19
entering these into the evidence of the
20
hearing?
21
And I am referring to several documents
22
which I will try to identify here on the
23
record.
24
First, Complainant's Answers to
L.A. REPORTING
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76
1
Respondent's Interrogatories. I received that
2
on April 4th. It appears that I received with
3
that a group of documents covered by a sheet
4
that says Documents in Response to
5
Respondent's Document Request No. 4, and in
6
addition a document entitled Complainant's
7
Response to Respondent's Request for
8
Documents, which I received July 1, 1996.
9
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, there
10
are a few -- Well, the problem with admitting
11
these documents in bulk is the Respondent --
12
or the Complainant has provided documents
13
which are relevant to his case along with a
14
number of documents which aren't and along
15
with some documents which I do not believe
16
under the Board's rules are admissible, for
17
example, pages out of IICLE law books on
18
environmental law.
19
There are also Web pages that do not
20
appear to be from any established
21
environmental source. They are not even
22
identified what the source of those documents
23
are. And there are certain calculation sheets
24
that have been prepared by the Complainant
L.A. REPORTING
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77
1
that the Complainant has not testified to nor
2
has he attempted to establish any
3
qualifications to prepare.
4
I am concerned and object to the
5
inclusion of those documents in the record as
6
substantive evidence. If there are specific
7
documents, if there are any specific documents
8
that the Complainant feels he has not already
9
included in the list of 10 or 11 documents
10
that he has offered, we would be happy to have
11
him identify them and we will in all
12
likelihood not have any objection.
13
I do, though, believe that the Rules of
14
Evidence as applied by the Board have to at a
15
minimum provide for the admission of only
16
evidence which is relevant material and in the
17
case of these calculations and law books have
18
to have some authority.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, do you
20
have a response?
21
MR. BOGACZ: Well, all those documents
22
were submitted as -- in response to
23
interrogatories from the Respondent. So I
24
don't see any difference in doing that again
L.A. REPORTING
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78
1
as evidence at the hearing here. I mean,
2
there was -- other than some of the documents
3
possibly being unacceptable in some way, but I
4
don't know if you can make a ruling on that
5
right now or --
6
MR. RIPPIE: I'm sorry. That's the
7
problem with doing them in bulk.
8
I suggest seriously that the way to
9
resolve this issue is perhaps even over lunch
10
to -- if Mr. Bogacz feels that there is any
11
document in here that's relevant and material
12
that he wants to have admitted into evidence,
13
to offer that document individually.
14
We must remember that our responses were
15
admissible -- our responses to his requests
16
were admissible on his offer because we
17
provided that information. But admitting his
18
responses to our request in bulk means that
19
anything he chose to send in a discovery
20
response, regardless of its actual propriety
21
or relevance, would come into the record.
22
Any legitimate document that he wishes to
23
have admitted he can offer.
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you,
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79
1
Counsel.
2
I am going to permit the Complainant's
3
Answers to the Respondent's Interrogatories to
4
be entered into evidence as Complainant's
5
Exhibit 12. I do that based on the Board's
6
general practice which is to permit the
7
parties to make the case they seek to make and
8
to judge for themselves the voracity,
9
reliability, and materiality of the documents
10
that are put before them.
11
(Complainant's Exhibit No. 12
12
marked for identification.)
13
The Hearing Officer is also encouraged
14
when there is an arguable interpretation as to
15
the admissible of evidence in Board
16
proceedings to admit that evidence.
17
Now, the documents I referred to
18
previously will be admitted into evidence as
19
Complainant's Exhibit 12; and if there is any
20
question as to what those documents are, they
21
are the documents that I now hold in my hand.
22
Respondent may check to see that the documents
23
we are discussing are, in fact, the same
24
documents Respondent did receive from
L.A. REPORTING
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80
1
Complainant.
2
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: At this time, the
4
Complainant's case-in-chief at hearing has
5
been concluded in oral testimony, and we are
6
at a point where we have several exhibits
7
identified that we have not entertained a
8
motion for admission into evidence of, I don't
9
believe. I would like to do that at this time
10
for Complainant's Exhibits 1 through 12.
11
Is there any objection to the
12
admissibility of these exhibits into
13
evidence? These have previously been
14
identified. We have heard some objections on
15
the content of some of these documents from
16
Respondent; however, I am entertaining a
17
formal admission of these documents into
18
evidence at this time.
19
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, if I
20
may, we have no objections other than those
21
which have already been addressed and
22
memorialized for the record at the time the
23
documents were first marked for
24
identification.
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
2
you.
3
Then Complainant's Exhibits Nos. 1
4
through 12 will be entered into evidence, and
5
the objections of Respondent's counsel
6
pertaining to those are preserved for the
7
record.
8
(Complainant's Exhibit Nos. 1-12
9
admitted into evidence.)
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: At this time, then
11
we will go off the record for lunch, and we
12
will return for Respondent's case-in-chief.
13
Off the record.
14
(A lunch recess was taken.)
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: On the record.
16
We are back from our lunch recess, and we
17
will proceed now with the Respondent's
18
case-in-chief.
19
MR. ZIBART: If it would please the
20
Hearing Officer, I would like to offer a brief
21
opening statement at this time.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Please.
23
24
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1
OPENING STATEMENT
2
By Mr. Zibart
3
Mr. Bogacz has filed an enforcement complaint
4 claiming that Com Ed's transmission lines cause air
5 pollution because trace amounts of ozone in the form of
6 oxygen may be formed during certain weather conditions
7 along the energized lines. Our evidence will demonstrate
8 that Mr. Bogacz's complaint is without merit.
9
Ozone is a naturally occurring gas and can be
10 formed when energy is released into the air. The major
11 causes of ozone are sunlight, lightening, automobiles, and
12 certain manufacturing operations. The evidence will show
13 that transmission lines are not a meaningful cause of
14 ozone.
15
After a few brief questions we will direct to
16 Mr. Bogacz as part of our case, we will present the
17 testimony first of Ms. Linda Manning, Com Ed's
18 transmission system vice-president who will give the
19 Board an overview of Com Ed's transmission system and
20 explain the important role that it plays in delivering
21 electric power to the people of Northern Illinois.
22
We will then present the testimony of Dr. Gary
23 Johnson, an engineer and scientist who has studied the
24 phenomenon of ozone caused by transmission lines.
L.A. REPORTING
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83
1 Dr. Johnson will report to the Board on his calculations
2 of how much ozone is created by Com Ed's transmission
3 system. Because ozone decays almost as fast as it is
4 created, Dr. Johnson has also calculated the total amount
5 of ozone present in the atmosphere due to Com Ed's
6 transmission lines.
7
We will also present the testimony of
8 Dr. Jaroslav Vostal, a medical doctor and specialist in
9 public health issues, who has spent many years
10 investigating the health effects of ozone on people.
11 Dr. Vostal has reached the conclusion that the amount of
12 ozone created by transmission lines is not a danger to
13 public health.
14
We will present the testimony of Mr. Mark
15 Lorenz, Com Ed's siting and estimating engineer, who will
16 discuss the feasibility and cost of attempting to bury Com
17 Ed's entire transmission system underground as the
18 Complainant has requested. Mr. Lorenz will demonstrate
19 that it is neither technically nor economically feasible
20 to do so.
21
Finally, we will put into the record for the
22 Board's reference copies of the studies mentioned earlier
23 that the U.S. EPA referred Mr. Bogacz to when he made his
24 inquiries.
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84
1
Upon considering the evidence, we believe the
2 Board will agree that transmission lines are not a source
3 of air pollution. Thank you.
4
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very
5
much.
6
Would the Respondent's counsel like to
7
call their first witness?
8
MR. RIPPIE: The Respondent's first
9
witness will be the Complainant, Mr. Joseph
10
Bogacz.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Mr. Bogacz,
12
at this time, the Respondent's counsel would
13
like to ask you a few questions relating to
14
their case-in-chief.
15
And can we have the witness sworn?
16
(Witness sworn.)
17
JOSEPH BOGACZ,
18 called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn,
19 was examined upon oral interrogatories and testified as
20 follows:
21
DIRECT EXAMINATION
22 BY MR. RIPPIE:
23
Q. Mr. Bogacz, do you recall some of the
24 questions that I posed to you during your
L.A. REPORTING
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85
1 cross-examination; and in particular, do you recall that I
2 asked you whether a variety of other industrial activities
3 and household activities produced ozone?
4
A. Yes, I do.
5
Q. Okay. And I don't want to go over the same
6 ground again, but let me briefly summarize.
7
We agreed, did we not, that ozone is produced
8 by drinking water purification, Xerox and photocopying
9 machines, laser printers, and arc welding?
10
A. I believe it is true.
11
Q. And we also agreed, I believe, did we not,
12 that precursors of atmospheric ozone are produced by such
13 things as barbecue pits, fireplaces, wood burning stoves,
14 and small gasoline engines?
15
A. I believe so, yes.
16
Q. I am going to show you a document, which I'm
17 going to also present a copy to the Hearing Officer.
18
MR. RIPPIE: It's a Department of
19
Commerce National Technical Information
20
Service Study.
21
I believe we are on Exhibit 6.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: Correct.
23
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 6
24
marked for identification.)
L.A. REPORTING
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86
1 BY MR. RIPPIE:
2
Q. Now, Mr. Bogacz, this is actually an excerpt
3 from the study which I'm going to ask you to, first of
4 all, just take a look at the front cover.
5
Can we agree that this is a portion of a
6 United States Department of Commerce National Technical
7 Information Service Report on identification and
8 characterization of missing or unaccounted for area source
9 categories?
10
A. Yes.
11
Q. Mr. Bogacz, I ask you whether we can also
12 agree that this report categorizes and identifies some of
13 the sources of atmospheric ozone? And probably the
14 easiest way to do this would be to refer you to the table
15 of contents that summarizes what the purpose of the
16 studies are, what the sources are.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: What is your
18
question, Counsel?
19
MR. RIPPIE: I'm just trying to establish
20
with the witness that we can agree that this
21
study, in fact, identifies and characterizes a
22
variety of other sources of ozone. That will
23
be the last foundation question I have for the
24
witness.
L.A. REPORTING
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87
1 BY THE WITNESS:
2
A. It appears it does.
3
Q. Now, Mr. Bogacz, you have asked the Pollution
4 Control Board to direct that certain things be done to Com
5 Ed's existing transmission system based on your
6 allegations that that transmission system produces ozone;
7 am I correct?
8
A. Partially, I agree to that. There may be
9 other methods of accomplishing that request.
10
Q. The methods that you identified, however, in
11 response to our interrogatories was to bury the lines or
12 to remove them from having any contact with air?
13
A. Yes.
14
Q. Now, Mr. Bogacz, do you believe that -- is it
15 your -- Strike that.
16
Is it your contention that the Pollution
17 Control Board must direct Commonwealth Edison to either
18 bury or remove its lines from air or take other action to
19 eliminate the production of ozone from its transmission
20 lines?
21
A. Is it my contention that they do that?
22
Q. That's correct.
23
A. If it's within their authority, I guess I am
24 asking them to do that.
L.A. REPORTING
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88
1
Q. Do you -- Should the Pollution Control Board
2 also prevent the production of atmospheric ozone by water
3 purification, Xerox machines, laser printers, arc welding,
4 barbecue pits, fireplaces, wood burning stoves, lawn
5 mowers, and the like?
6
A. What was the first part?
7
Q. Should the Pollution Control Board also
8 prevent the production of ozone by purification drinking
9 water, Xerox machines, laser printers, arc welding,
10 barbecue pits, fireplaces, wood burning stoves, lawn
11 mowers, and the like?
12
A. I'm not sure that this line of questions
13 really applies to the Illinois Pollution Control Board.
14 It may apply to the U.S. EPA primarily.
15
Q. Okay. Well, then let me ask you whether or
16 not you think that the U.S. EPA and/or the Pollution
17 Control Board should require the elimination of the
18 production of ozone from that list of sources?
19
A. If it's given the authority by the
20 environmental -- the relative or respective Environmental
21 Protection Acts, yes, I do.
22
Q. Is it your contention that the Pollution
23 Control Board or the U.S. or Illinois EPA should also look
24 at the benefits of those activities and the costs of
L.A. REPORTING
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89
1 eliminating that ozone?
2
A. I guess it's within their prerogative to do
3 that.
4
Q. Is it your contention that they should?
5
A. Oh, they should. If it's specified within
6 their authority, I guess they should.
7
Q. Okay. Thank you very much. That's all the
8 questions I have for you.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
10
MR. RIPPIE: At this point, Madam Hearing
11
Officer, I would offer into evidence Company
12
Exhibits -- Com Ed -- Respondent Com Ed's
13
Exhibits 1 through, I believe, 6.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: Is there any
15
objection to the introduction of these
16
exhibits into evidence?
17
MR. BOGACZ: The exhibits that -- You
18
mean the questions or -- that he was just
19
presented?
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: No, the exhibits
21
identified as Respondent's Exhibits 1 through
22
6.
23
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, the ones that -- The
24
exhibits that were presented earlier; is that
L.A. REPORTING
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90
1
what you're talking about?
2
MR. RIPPIE: Yes, sir.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Exhibit 6 was just
4
presented.
5
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Exhibits 1 through
7
5 were presented before lunch.
8
MR. BOGACZ: No. I have no problem.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Exhibits 1 through
10
6 of Respondent's will be entered into
11
evidence.
12
(Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 1-6
13
admitted into evidence.)
14
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer,
15
Respondent's next witness is Ms. Linda
16
Manning.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Will Ms. Manning
18
come forward?
19
Okay. You can arrange the witness chair
20
appropriately. Perhaps you would like to put
21
it on this side.
22
Will the witness be sworn?
23
24
L.A. REPORTING
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91
1
(Witness sworn.)
2
LINDA S. MANNING,
3 called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn,
4 was examined upon oral interrogatories and testified as
5 follows:
6
DIRECT EXAMINATION
7 BY MR. RIPPIE:
8
Q. Could you please state and spell your full
9 legal name for the court reporter?
10
A. Yes. My name is Linda, S is the middle
11 initial, Manning, M-a-n-n-i-n-g.
12
Q. Ms. Manning, can you tell me who your
13 employer is?
14
A. My employer is Commonwealth Edison Company.
15
Q. And what is your position with Com Ed?
16
A. I am the transmission system vice-president
17 for our company.
18
Q. And what in general is Commonwealth Edison
19 Company's business?
20
A. Commonwealth Edison is in the business of
21 producing and transmitting, distributing energy to
22 approximately 3 million residential, commercial, and
23 industrial customers in the northern one-third of
24 Illinois.
L.A. REPORTING
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92
1
Q. And what, Ms. Manning, are your duties and
2 responsibilities as Com Ed's transmission system
3 vice-president?
4
A. I am responsible for the design, construction,
5 maintenance, and operation of all of our transmission
6 lines overhead and underground as well as our substations
7 and our system protection activities.
8
Q. Could you summarize for the Hearing Officer,
9 please, what your educational background is?
10
A. Yes. I'm an electrical engineer since 19 -- I
11 graduated as an electrical engineering degree BSEE in
12 1972, and I am a licensed professional engineer in the
13 State of Illinois since 1976.
14
Q. Could you briefly summarize your background
15 and experience in electric utility engineering and
16 particularly in transmission engineering and operations?
17
A. Yes, I can.
18
I began with the company in 1971 and held
19 positions as an electrical project engineer in our fossil
20 generating stations. After that, I had a number of
21 positions in engineering and operations.
22
I was an equipment specialist for several
23 years with product line responsibility for large power
24 transformers, inductors, resters, bushings, and ancillary
L.A. REPORTING
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1 apparatus to large power transformers.
2
I had a number of positions in supervision and
3 in engineering departments.
4
I was the operations manager of our western
5 division, which included the responsibility of
6 construction forces as well as engineering and relay
7 testing and commissioning.
8
I was a commercial manager in one of our city
9 divisions.
10
I was the manager of our system electrical
11 engineering department. That department had the
12 responsibility for the design of substation and
13 transmission lines.
14
I was the division vice-president for one of
15 our city divisions. And just -- That was my most previous
16 position. And in 1993, I became the transmission system
17 vice-president for the company.
18
Q. Could you identify, please, any special
19 experience or participation in these special engineering
20 activities relating to the design or construction of high
21 voltage transmission lines?
22
A. Yes, I can.
23
I have been an advisor representing
24 Commonwealth Edison to the Electric Power Research
L.A. REPORTING
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94
1 Institute. Beginning in 1995, I served on the
2 transmission business unit, business council, if you will.
3 And I also served as the vice-chairman of the underground
4 working group for that industry committee.
5
Q. Have you arranged for the preparation of a CV
6 or resume that identifies in more detail your educational
7 and professional background and experience?
8
A. Yes, I have.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: We would identify
10
this as Respondent's Exhibit 7.
11
MR. RIPPIE: Thank you.
12
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 7
13
marked for identification.)
14 BY MR. RIPPIE:
15
Q. Ms. Manning, is Respondent's Exhibit No. 7 a
16 copy of your curriculum vitae?
17
A. Yes, it is.
18
Q. Ms. Manning, can you explain for the Hearing
19 Officer and the Board what the major components are for a
20 modern electric utility system?
21
A. Yes, I can.
22
It is primarily for fully integrated utility.
23 There are generating stations or production equipment, if
24 you will. There are substations. There are transmission
L.A. REPORTING
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95
1 elements, transmission lines. There are part of the
2 system referred to as the distribution system. And then
3 there are the service and meter equipment that is closest,
4 if you will, to the ultimate consumer of the electric
5 energy.
6
Q. Have you arranged for the preparation of a
7 chart or a diagram that would help you explain in greater
8 detail the role of the transmission system on delivery of
9 electric power?
10
A. Yes, I have.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. This
12
will be identified as Respondent's Exhibit 8.
13
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 8
14
marked for identification.)
15 BY MR. RIPPIE:
16
Q. Ms. Manning, is Respondent's Exhibit 8 the
17 chart to which I have just referred to?
18
A. Yes, it is.
19
Q. Referring to the chart as necessary, could you
20 explain in greater detail what the function and role of
21 the transmission system is in the operation of the
22 utilities you just described?
23
A. Yes, I can.
24
I had sort of -- I had started my discussion a
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1 little earlier about the generation aspects of a utility
2 system, and it's represented as a power station on this
3 particular chart.
4
As a matter of fact, Commonwealth Edison has
5 15 power stations. They are really remotely located for
6 the most part away from heavy population centers. There
7 are a few of those stations that are in the Metropolitan
8 Chicago area, but primarily they are located in more
9 distant counties from the City of Chicago.
10
So as we go up this chart, you'll see a
11 typical voltage that the electricity is generated at. It
12 is at 13.8 kV. And what that really represents is one is
13 one thousand -- excuse me -- it's 13,800 volts. That's
14 what the K stands for is for a thousand. So at 13,800
15 volts, the electricity is generated.
16
It goes then usually to a substation that is
17 right outside the generating station where the voltage is
18 increased. And in our example here, the substation
19 transformer in this case, the main power transformer,
20 would increase the voltage from 13,800 to 138,000 or
21 345 kV or 765 kV. It raises the voltage because there are
22 certain economics for transmitting the electric energy at
23 a higher voltage.
24
In a way, I think the overhead transmission
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1 system you can kind of think of as the interstate highway
2 system. It is bringing the power from long distance.
3 It's bringing it in bulk. It brings it to -- from a
4 distance remote from population centers. It brings it
5 closer to those population centers to be distributed.
6
So as we go along past the transmission line
7 portion of the chart, you'll see voltage reduced at
8 distribution substation. This is another substation. It
9 would contain substation transformers. It reduces the
10 voltage now.
11
Our typical distribution voltage is 12,500
12 volts. We do have a 4,000 volt system in the City of
13 Chicago. There are some variations of that voltage
14 level.
15
But then it brings it closer. It is -- I
16 would like in that distribution substation to -- perhaps a
17 distribution warehouse, if you will, because it now -- it
18 takes and breaks up the electricity into parcels that get
19 moved closer to the ultimate consumers.
20
So the electricity now moves along the
21 distribution system, and it will take -- it will have one
22 more transformation of voltage to a usable voltage for the
23 intended purpose.
24
And on our chart, we see it made to -- we see
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1 it changed to 480 to 277 volts for industrial plants, and
2 we see it at 12208 for commercial customers; 12240
3 residential.
4
So that's -- There's a number of different
5 variations the way the product can be consumed, a number
6 of different variations of the voltage. So, essentially,
7 those are the elements with respect to this chart.
8
Q. Would it be possible for a utility like Com Ed
9 or any other electric utility to provide electric power to
10 its customers without the use of a transmission system?
11
A. Generally, no.
12
Q. Now, the transmission lines that you have
13 described that Com Ed maintains at 765 kV, 345 kV, and
14 138 kV, are transmission lines of that same type
15 maintained by other utilities around the United States and
16 around the world?
17
A. Yes, they are.
18
Q. Does Commonwealth Edison also maintain
19 transmission interconnections between its own transmission
20 system and the systems of neighboring utilities?
21
A. Yes, we do.
22
Q. Why do you do that?
23
A. We really do that for several reasons. I
24 would say three distinct reasons.
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1
First of all, it's for reliability of the
2 Edison system. If we should have some unplanned outage of
3 one of the elements, whether it's a power station or
4 another transmission line, it provides some redundancy and
5 paths to bring electricity into our service territory. So
6 from a reliability standpoint, it's very handy to be
7 connected with one's neighbors.
8
The second reason would be one of economic
9 dispatch, and I can give you an example of that. For
10 instance, if one of our stations is generating at a higher
11 cost than a neighboring -- a neighboring utility station,
12 we can, in fact, elect not to dispatch our own unit, but,
13 in fact, buy from a neighboring utility. So we need those
14 interconnections to transport the purchase.
15
And then finally, the third major reason that
16 you would need a transmission system, is to engage in
17 interstate -- interstate transport, if you will,
18 electricity across our system from one -- from a buyer to
19 a -- excuse me -- from a seller to a buyer.
20
So those would really be the three main
21 reasons.
22
Q. Are the systems of the utilities that neighbor
23 Com Ed in turn interconnected with the systems of other
24 utilities around the country?
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1
A. Yes, they are.
2
Q. Is it -- How would you sort of describe or sum
3 up in a couple sentences the interconnected system
4 throughout the country?
5
A. Well, it is -- I guess for a layman, it
6 looks -- it probably looks like a spider's web, if you
7 could depict it on a diagram. There are really three
8 major system connections. There's the western system.
9 And we actually have a natural barrier of the Rocky
10 Mountains that really prevent too many interconnections
11 across the mountains. And then we have the eastern
12 interconnections which Edison is a part of. And Texas, as
13 in many cases, are sort of stand alone. They have their
14 own interconnections.
15
So there are really three major interconnected
16 systems in the United States.
17
Q. I want to now show you some diagrams, if I
18 can, which I hope will clarify that a little further.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you like to
20
enter this into evidence?
21
MR. RIPPIE: I thought I would enter them
22
all at the end of the witness' testimony.
23
Whatever your preference.
24
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. We'll
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1
identify this as Respondent's Exhibit 9.
2
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 9
3
marked for identification.)
4 BY MR. RIPPIE:
5
Q. Ms. Manning, can you tell us what
6 Respondent's Exhibit 9 is?
7
A. Yes. This is a map that depicts all of the
8 transmission lines that are -- the interconnections, the
9 utilities, that comprise the Mid-America Interconnected
10 Network or MAIN as it's well-known, MAIN.
11
Q. And is MAIN a formal regional association of
12 utilities that engage in joint transmission planning and
13 operations?
14
A. Yes, they are.
15
Q. And can you explain, just so we are clear,
16 does MAIN also then maintain interconnections to other
17 similar organizations on its borders?
18
A. Yes, they do. I can spend a little time -- If
19 you can see in Illinois and Wisconsin, the portion in
20 yellow is really -- is really the portion that is MAIN.
21 Some of these others as it spills into other states are
22 part of other interconnection associations, if you will.
23
It's interesting -- the reason the -- there is
24 such -- there is such a good reason or good reasons to be
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1 a part of one of these mutual planning associations, if
2 you will, is it allows the -- a much greater piece of -- a
3 much greater portion of electric systems to be planned as
4 a whole as opposed to individuals.
5
For instance, the part in yellow, the MAIN
6 interconnected network, Mid-America Interconnected
7 Network, plans for reserved margin in both generation and
8 in transmission of 17 -- excuse me -- 18 percent, and they
9 recently have changed that downward to 17 percent.
10
But if, for instance -- if Edison -- if the
11 Commonwealth Edison Company planned for generation of
12 transmission contingencies, if you will, by itself, it
13 would have to plan in excess of 40 percent of reserved
14 margin in generation and transmission. So there's an
15 enormous -- there's an enormous economic incentive as well
16 as reliability for planning a larger system as opposed to
17 a smaller system.
18
Q. And I'll come back to that in more detail in a
19 main.
20
Does Com Ed also maintain maps of its own of
21 the transmission system?
22
A. Yes, it does.
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: This will be
24
Respondent's Exhibit 10.
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1
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 10
2
marked for identification.)
3 BY MR. RIPPIE:
4
Q. Ms. Manning, is Respondent's Exhibit 10 a
5 true and correct diagram of Commonwealth Edison's own
6 transmission system as well as indications of its
7 interconnections with its neighbors?
8
A. Yes, it is.
9
Q. Now, I'm going to refer to a state agency
10 called the Illinois Commerce Commission. Are you familiar
11 with that agency?
12
A. Yes, I am.
13
Q. What in a sentence does the Illinois Commerce
14 Commission do with respect to Commonwealth Edison?
15
A. The Illinois Commerce Commission is the
16 regulating -- regulating body for the utility operations
17 of Commonwealth Edison. So we have many opportunities to
18 appear before the Illinois Commerce Commission in the
19 course of our utility business.
20
Q. Now, I'm going to show you the last map I'm
21 going to show you today.
22
Before I do that, let me ask you, does the
23 Illinois Commerce Commission also maintain similar
24 transmission maps of the facilities that it regulates
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1 within the State of Illinois?
2
A. Yes, it does.
3
MR. RIPPIE: Madam Hearing Officer, I
4
have to apologize to you. I only have one
5
copy of this map. The Commerce Commission
6
printed these a number of months ago, actually
7
a number of years ago, and they are somewhat
8
stingy about the number they will hand out,
9
so I only have one copy. Let me first show it
10
to Mr. Bogacz, and then I'll ...
11
MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Did you want to
13
add that into evidence?
14
MR. RIPPIE: Yes, I will. I tried to
15
have copies made, but because it's so large,
16
it's difficult to copy.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Did you
18
want to enter a copy into evidence?
19
MR. RIPPIE: The copies might not come
20
out well. I will give you my original.
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. This
22
will be Respondent's Exhibit No. 11.
23
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 11
24
marked for identification.)
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1 BY MR. RIPPIE:
2
Q. Ms. Manning, is Respondent's Exhibit No. 11
3 the most recent Illinois Commerce Commission map of the
4 transmission systems in the State of Illinois?
5
A. Yes, it is.
6
Q. Ms. Manning, could you summarize for the
7 Hearing Officer and for the Board, please, how the
8 Illinois Commerce Commission regulates the construction
9 and operation of its electric transmission lines?
10
A. Yes, I will.
11
In order to build a transmission line in the
12 State of Illinois, the utility must file an application
13 for a certificate of convenience and necessity with the
14 Illinois Commerce Commission, at which time the Commission
15 will hold a series of public hearings; they will
16 accumulate the evidence; there actually will be a whole
17 formal administrative process where members of the public
18 and interested parties can involve themselves in the
19 case.
20
The Commission looks at all aspects of the
21 proposed project. They really need to determine several
22 things. They need to determine that it's in the public
23 interest of the State of Illinois' residents to build that
24 facility, and they also need to determine that it is --
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1 it is going to be the least cost proposal, the least cost
2 alternative, in which to build a transmission line.
3
Q. Ms. Manning, is it unlawful for Commonwealth
4 Edison Company to construct a new transmission line
5 without a certificate from the Commission?
6
A. That would be unlawful, that's correct.
7
Q. What types of things about the transmission
8 line does the Commerce Commission specify in the
9 certificate?
10
A. As far as the physical things, as I mentioned
11 earlier, they are looking at the question -- really the
12 questions of is it in the public's interest to build it,
13 No. 1; is there a need for it. That is really one of the
14 major items.
15
But from a physical standpoint, they look at
16 the routing of the line; they are looking at the siting of
17 where the -- where the line is actually going to go; and
18 primarily it looks at the physical construction details of
19 the line, it is overhead, is it underground, what type of
20 structures we are using, is it double circuit, is it
21 single circuit.
22
So they really look at all aspects of the
23 siting and the physical construction of the line.
24
Q. Let me ask you specifically for one more item
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1 on that list.
2
Does the Commerce Commission also consider the
3 voltage law?
4
A. Absolutely. That is one of the design
5 elements of the project, yes.
6
Q. Is Commonwealth Edison Company's transmission
7 system also regulated by any federal agencies?
8
A. It is. It is regulated by the Federal Energy
9 Regulatory Commission because, as I mentioned earlier, it
10 is an element of interstate commerce as you conduct
11 interstate sales of electricity.
12
Q. Could you please describe to the Hearing
13 Officer and to the Board what the benefits are in the
14 State of Illinois of Commonwealth Edison's operation of
15 its existing transmission system and the provisional
16 electric service through it?
17
A. Well, we have done some interesting market
18 research and some interesting research in the public
19 opinion area. And believe it or not, electricity has been
20 heightened to the same level of air and water in view of
21 most of our customers. It has become so a part of modern
22 life that you take for granted that you could flip on a
23 light switch and you could light your home, you can heat
24 your home.
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1
So it has -- Having a transmission system
2 where we could actually bring the power from its source
3 and bring it near the ultimate consumer where they can use
4 it in their homes, their schools, their places of
5 employment is absolutely essential to modern living as we
6 know it.
7
Q. Is the operation of an adequate, reliable, and
8 efficient electric transmission system essential of
9 Commonwealth Edison to continue to provide this electric
10 service?
11
A. Absolutely.
12
Q. Can you tell us what the effect would be of an
13 order requiring Commonwealth Edison Company to place
14 underground all of its transmission system?
15
A. Yes. And there would be several reasons.
16 Actually, the effect of the order would be one that it
17 might not even be able to be carried out from a technical
18 standpoint.
19
Q. Can you tell us why it would be impossible to
20 underground the entire system?
21
A. Well, there are some of the elements of our
22 system at -- that are 765 kV transmission lines. There
23 really is some question as to whether there's an adequate
24 technology to do that in an underground fashion.
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1
But even beyond that, there's a more
2 fundamental issue, and it's -- I'm afraid I'm going to
3 have to take a minute and just talk about several physical
4 properties of operating an AC, alternating current,
5 system. There is a physical property known as
6 capacitance. And really what that is is if you have two
7 conductors that are insulated, and they could even be
8 insulated by air or they can be insulated by some
9 insulating material or even an insulating fluid, you
10 actually can generate a charge that -- between those two
11 conductors. And, typically -- So it is a phenomena
12 referred to as capacitance.
13
And when you look at the elements of a
14 transmission system, underground transmission lines have a
15 much higher level of capacity of -- of capacity of
16 reactance -- excuse me -- capacity of effect on the
17 operation of the system than overhead transmission lines.
18 And by the nature of that, you have to take some
19 mitigating steps. You have to introduce a corresponding
20 inductance in order to operate the system.
21
I'm not convinced that we would really be able
22 to regulate the power flow of our system and get power in
23 an underground transmission system to the ultimate
24 consumers if we had to underground the entire transmission
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1 system. I know it would be extremely expensive, and I
2 think another witness is going to talk about that a little
3 bit later. It would be a very expensive proposition to do
4 as well.
5
Q. Now, Ms. Manning, would it be possible if --
6 given the discussion of capacitance that you have just
7 given, would it be possible to regulate Commonwealth
8 Edison's system's role in the regional transmission grid
9 if its system was underground and the remainder of the
10 systems were designed as they are now?
11
A. It would pose tremendous challenges. I'm
12 fairly convinced it would not be possible. If you could
13 think of it this way; the Edison system would almost
14 become a giant sink hole, and we'd be trying to suck all
15 of the energy and the electricity from all of our
16 surrounding neighbors into that giant sink hole because of
17 the high capacitance effect, and I'm fairly certain that
18 our neighbors would not stand still for it.
19
Q. If Commonwealth Edison had to drop its
20 interconnections as a result of it not being feasible to
21 maintain an underground system on its own, what would be
22 the effect on the state of Com Ed?
23
A. Any -- There would be an economic effect
24 because we would now have to plan for our own reserve
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1 capacity. It would affect reliability if we had any
2 unplanned or unscheduled outage of system elements. In
3 fact, we may have blackouts of our own customers as a
4 result of that. So it would be a very significant
5 effect.
6
We have as a company 31 transmission lines at
7 138,000 volts and above connected to neighbors around us.
8 So we are -- We enjoy the very best reliability because we
9 can count on those neighbors in an unplanned situation.
10
Q. Two very brief questions to follow-up.
11
When you talked about needing to build more
12 capacity, what we're talking about, to make it simple, is
13 building a bunch of more generating stations; right?
14
A. Yes. I'm talking about building more
15 generating stations, but also building more transmission
16 lines to bring -- to connect those elements to our
17 transmission system. So we could easily be building both
18 generation as well as transmission elements.
19
Q. Given the number of generating stations that
20 we have now, would Com Ed have an adequate reliable
21 transmission system if its interconnections had to be
22 terminated?
23
A. I think not.
24
Q. Now, you've talked about interconnections,
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1 you've talked about cost, and you've talked about
2 reliability.
3
Is there any other reason why it would be
4 difficult or impossible for Com Ed to underground its
5 transmission system?
6
A. Well, as we had discussed before, before we
7 could do that, we would have to obtain regulatory approval
8 to do it. We could not alter our overhead transmission
9 line to an underground transmission line to take its place
10 without obtaining authorization from the Illinois Commerce
11 Commission.
12
Q. Does Commonwealth Edison have the real estate
13 rights necessary to underground its transmission system?
14
A. Probably not in all cases; probably not even
15 in most cases. All of those issues would have to be
16 revisited on a transmission line by transmission line
17 basis.
18
Q. Are you aware, Ms. Manning, in your experience
19 on other committees, other industry committees, of any
20 utility transmission grid anywhere in the world that has
21 been constructed all or a substantial part underground
22 because of air pollution?
23
A. No.
24
Q. Are you aware of any single transmission line
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1 anywhere in the world that's been constructed underground
2 because of air pollution concerns?
3
A. No, I'm not.
4
Q. Are you aware of any utility that's
5 constructed its transmission grid underground for any
6 reason when it passes through rural and suburban areas
7 such as we have in Northern Illinois where land for an
8 overhead system is available?
9
A. Not my knowledge, no.
10
MR. RIPPIE: That's all the questions I
11
have for Ms. Manning.
12
At this time, the Company would offer
13
into evidence Exhibits 7 through 11.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: Is there any
15
objection to the introduction of Respondent's
16
Exhibits 7 to 11 into evidence?
17
Mr. Bogacz?
18
MR. BOGACZ: Ms. Manning --
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: No. Mr. Bogacz --
20
MR. BOGACZ: Yeah.
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- is there any
22
objection to the introduction of Respondent's
23
Exhibits --
24
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, no. I'm sorry.
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- 7 to 11 into
2
evidence?
3
MR. BOGACZ: No.
4
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.
5
Respondent's Exhibits 7 to 11 are entered into
6
evidence.
7
(Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 7-11
8
admitted into evidence.)
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: At this time,
10
Mr. Bogacz, you may address any questions you
11
have to Ms. Manning which are specifically
12
related to the questions and answers that have
13
been heard here today.
14
CROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. BOGACZ:
16
Q. Ms. Manning, have you ever heard of the
17 National Environmental Policy Act?
18
A. Yes, I have.
19
Q. Do you know if Commonwealth Edison is required
20 to abide with that act in any way?
21
A. I know Commonwealth Edison is required to
22 follow the law as is any corporate citizen.
23
Q. Well, I mean, that's not what I asked you. I
24 asked you if Commonwealth Edison is -- do you know if
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1 Commonwealth Edison is required to abide by that specific
2 act?
3
MR. RIPPIE: Ms. Manning is not a
4
lawyer. She has answered the question to the
5
best of her ability given the Complainant has
6
not referred her to any provision of the
7
statute and given that her testimony has not
8
been directed to that subject.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Objection
10
sustained.
11 BY MR. BOGACZ:
12
Q. On these maps, they list Commonwealth
13 Edison's lines in various circuits and multi-circuit.
14 Just exactly what is a multi-circuit?
15
A. A multi-circuit would generally indicate that
16 there is a structure that has more than one three-phase
17 alternating current transmission line installed on that
18 structure. So you may have four transmission lines on the
19 same -- on the same structure.
20
Q. Do you know how many miles of transmission
21 lines there are within the control of Commonwealth Edison?
22
A. Yes, I do. There are in total above 69,000
23 volts. When you add both overhead and underground,
24 there's approximately 5,500 miles of transmission --
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1 circuit miles of transmission lines.
2
Q. 5,000 -- What was that?
3
A. Approximately 5,500.
4
Q. Now, is that the total lineage of lines or is
5 that just the total path of, say, four or six lines
6 running together?
7
A. It is the total lineage of the lines, but what
8 it is not is our lines -- We have a three-phase
9 alternating current system. So each transmission line is
10 comprised of three phases.
11
So if you wanted to know how many miles of
12 wire, for instance, you'd take 5,500 figure and multiply
13 by three. But the 5,500 mile figure is the -- is the
14 number of circuit miles, not the structure miles, which is
15 the other issue that you would ask about.
16
Q. I still don't quite understand that.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Bogacz, where
18
are you going with your questioning?
19
MR. BOGACZ: I'm asking how many -- what
20
is the total line -- linear length of lines in
21
the system.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: What is the purpose
23
of your question then?
24
MR. BOGACZ: Well, in their response to
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1
the -- to my interrogatory, they specified
2
that there are about 3,000 miles of lines, but
3
there was no explanation as to whether that's
4
one line or 3,000 miles of six lines running
5
together or 12 lines running together or --
6
You know, if it's 3,000 miles of six lines,
7
then it's 18,000 miles. That's what I'm
8
getting at.
9 BY MR. BOGACZ:
10
Q. So what is the linear -- the line -- the
11 linear length of the total line?
12
A. 5,500 because the 3,000 number that you quoted
13 is counting the structure miles. That number is lower
14 than the 5,500 miles because it would count one mile of
15 four circuits on the same structure as one mile. So it is
16 a lower number. If you -- The 5,500 mile figure is the
17 circuit miles of the transmission lines.
18
Q. So that includes the towers that are running
19 parallel to each other that have six lines on each path
20 running parallel with each other?
21
A. I don't believe we have any towers that have
22 six lines necessarily. But if we did --
23
Q. You have them near -- right next to my home.
24
A. Six individual wires or --
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1
Q. Yes.
2
A. Okay. That would be in our terminology a
3 double circuit line. It would have two three-phase lines
4 on those structures.
5
So the larger number, the 5,500, counts for a
6 mile of that, counts each one of those lines as one mile,
7 so you'd have two miles. If on the structure mile, the
8 one that was provided as an answer by the Company, that
9 would count that mile as one mile. That explains the
10 difference in figures.
11
Q. So you're saying that the total miles then is
12 approximately 5,200 miles?
13
A. Approximately 5,500, yes.
14
Q. Or 5,500.
15
A. Including the overhead and underground for
16 all voltages at 69,000 volts and above, yes.
17
Q. When did the overhead line construction
18 method begin to your knowledge, the best of your knowledge?
19
A. We've had it for about 95 to 100 years. We --
20 We certainly have lower voltages, but overhead
21 transmission technology has existed for a long time.
22
THE HEARING OFFICER: I'm sorry. I'm
23
going to interrupt at this point and ask
24
Mr. Bogacz, when you have questions to ask on
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119
1
cross-examination, they need to be directly
2
related to this case.
3
I can't -- We do not have the time to
4
expound on the history of electric utility
5
generation in the United States or in the
6
Midwest. We simply don't have that time.
7
This must be directly related to this
8
case or we will never conclude.
9
MR. BOGACZ: Well, I have to disagree
10
with you. I mean, what am I going to ask
11
her? She just described information about and
12
I've been writing notes here about her
13
testimony.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: I want you to
15
refer --
16
MR. BOGACZ: And you're saying I can't
17
ask questions about what she discussed?
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: I want you to refer
19
directly to the statements that she's made in
20
your question when you ask her the question.
21
I want you to refer directly to the statement
22
she made then. If you are going to ask
23
questions based on what she said, then I want
24
you to tell her what it is she said and ask
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1
her the related question.
2
MR. BOGACZ: You mean verbatim?
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: No, sir.
4
MR. BOGACZ: I don't understand what
5
you're trying to explain.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: On
7
cross-examination, you are required to limit
8
your questions to the manner which was
9
discussed.
10
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: Our witness has not
12
made it her specialty to discuss the history
13
of electric generation in the United States or
14
in the Midwest.
15
MR. BOGACZ: I'm very sorry, but I
16
disagree with you.
17
What are all these maps for? She's the
18
vice-president of transmission within the
19
company.
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you please
21
limit your questions to the statements that
22
she has made which are specifically related to
23
your complaint?
24
MR. BOGACZ: I'm asking a question
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1
regarding this map.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: What does it have
3
to do with her testimony and with your
4
complaint? Let's try to be --
5
MR. BOGACZ: She testified regarding this
6
map.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let's try to be as
8
specific as possible, sir.
9
MR. BOGACZ: I am being specific.
10
You're not going to allow me to enter
11
anymore test -- asking her questions regarding
12
the maps that they submitted?
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: I am asking you to
14
proceed as specifically as possible with your
15
questions.
16
MR. BOGACZ: I am doing it right now.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: I also am going to
18
ask you to lower your voice and not to shout.
19
MR. BOGACZ: Well, I'm asking you to
20
explain your position further and in a more
21
specific way so I can understand it.
22
Now, I don't understand why I can't ask
23
her questions regarding a matter she just
24
testified to.
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Proceed.
2
MR. BOGACZ: All these -- All these maps
3
relate to what she testified to.
4
THE HEARING OFFICER: Proceed.
5
MR. BOGACZ: I'm asking her questions
6
about the map.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: Proceed.
8
MS. REPORTER: I'm going to change my
9
paper real quick.
10
(A short recess was taken.)
11 BY MR. BOGACZ:
12
Q. Have you any knowledge regarding the ozone
13 production of transmission lines, Ms. Manning?
14
A. Yes.
15
Q. Can you explain them to me?
16
A. It's very --
17
Q. For us.
18
A. It's a result of partial discharge of our
19 transmission lines. It is a very small number.
20
Q. By small number, are you -- I mean, do you --
21 did you do any calculations to that effect or is this
22 something that you obtain through company engineers?
23
A. My staff have made those calculations.
24
Q. The Federal Energy Commission is also a
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1 regulatory body responsible for Commonwealth Edison
2 lines --
3
A. Yes.
4
Q. -- you mentioned?
5
A. Yes.
6
Q. What specifically does Commonwealth Edison
7 have to adhere to or comply with regarding the FEC?
8
A. Primarily, the ability for the interstate
9 commerce and electric energy.
10
The Federal Regulatory Energy Commission
11 approves rates for using the transmission system as it is
12 essentially a common carrier. So they have the ability to
13 set those rates, approve those tariffs, and primarily
14 provide for the interstate commerce in electric energy
15 sales.
16
Q. Well, the interconnection system between Com
17 Ed and other power companies throughout the country,
18 what -- primarily, they -- to the best of your knowledge,
19 would you say that they were constructing overhead lines
20 for the same period that you mentioned about Com Ed, 95 to
21 a hundred years ago they had started that construction
22 method?
23
A. I think it was available to them in that time
24 frame as well, yes.
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1
MR. BOGACZ: I believe that's all I have
2
for Ms. Manning right now.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you have any
4
redirect?
5
MR. RIPPIE: No, ma'am.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
7
you, Ms. Manning.
8
The Respondent can call its next witness.
9
MR. ZIBART: Madam Hearing Officer, the
10
Respondent would call Dr. Gary Johnson at this
11
time.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Dr. Johnson, would
13
you be sworn?
14
(Witness sworn.)
15
GARY B. JOHNSON, Ph.D.,
16 called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn,
17 was examined upon oral interrogatories and testified as
18 follows:
19
DIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. ZIBART:
21
Q. Dr. Johnson, are you presently employed?
22
A. Yes.
23
Q. And what is your position?
24
A. I am the -- essentially, the owner/operator of
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1 the company Power Research which does consulting on
2 various power industry systems and phenomena.
3
Q. And before you were at Power Research
4 Engineering, what did you do in your career?
5
A. Prior to that, for 16 years I was at the High
6 Voltage Transmission Research Center located in
7 New Lennox, Massachusetts, where we did a variety of
8 studies involved with transmission systems and
9 distribution systems basically focusing on the field and
10 corona impacts of those systems.
11
Q. And would you briefly summarize what your
12 educational background is?
13
A. I received my bachelor of science degree in
14 physics from the University of Illinois in 1974, master's
15 in physics from the University of Illinois in '76, and
16 then electrical engineering doctor of philosophy in 1979
17 from the University of Illinois.
18
Q. Dr. Johnson, have you prepared a curriculum
19 vitae which goes into more detail as to your professional
20 qualifications?
21
A. Yes, I have.
22
MR. ZIBART: I have just one copy of
23
this. You can use it. I just want it ...
24
Madam Hearing Officer, I have just one
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1
copy of the CV at this time. If I could use
2
it with the witness, certainly I would provide
3
it to Mr. Bogacz if he'd like to go over it
4
with the witness.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: And to me also at
6
the conclusion.
7
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 12
8
marked for identification.)
9 BY MR. ZIBART:
10
Q. Dr. Johnson, showing you what's been marked
11 now as Respondent's Exhibit 12, is that a copy of your
12 curriculum vitae?
13
A. Yes, it is.
14
Q. And if I were to ask you more detailed
15 questions about your qualifications, would you testify
16 consistently with what's on this document?
17
A. Yes, I would.
18
Q. Dr. Johnson, during your work at EPRI and in
19 the research labs, have you had an occasion to look at the
20 corona effects of high voltage transmission lines?
21
A. Yes. We've looked at several phenomena
22 associated with both high voltage AC and high voltage DC
23 transmission systems, including the electric fields, the
24 magnetic fields, and various products due to corona on
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1 those lines such as audible noise, radio noise, and ozone.
2
Q. And have you been involved in the development
3 of any mathematical models for the prediction of how much
4 corona or ozone is produced by a high voltage transmission
5 line?
6
A. One of the endpoints of our research was to
7 produce various predictive models such as the fields in
8 corona, and we produced computer code, prediction code
9 that went into a product known as the TL work station
10 which, I believe, EPRI provides that calculates along with
11 many other things the ozone levels.
12
Q. And did you have occasion to verify the
13 accuracy of those models based on imperical research?
14
A. Basically, we looked at the measured
15 quantities of ozone that we were able to detect and in
16 many cases weren't able to detect and also went back to in
17 some cases laboratory situations that were testing ozone
18 production and used all of that information in developing
19 these models.
20
Q. I'd like to ask you a few questions about some
21 background of the science of ozone.
22
We've heard some testimony earlier that ozone
23 can be created by electrical discharge in the air. Is
24 that true?
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1
A. That is true. If there is a sufficiently
2 strong electric field, it will dissociate an oxygen
3 molecule or two atoms of oxygen freeing the oxygen into
4 individual atoms. Those atoms will then react with other
5 oxygen molecules to form what's called ozone. As I said,
6 if the electric field is strong enough, that can occur.
7
Q. Is there a chemical formula that's associated
8 with that process?
9
A. You are basically having a single oxygen atom
10 along with a certain amount of energy such as 69
11 kilocalories going into molecular oxygen, which is the two
12 oxygen atoms, and that results in the ozone atom.
13
Q. Is ozone a stable compound?
14
A. Ozone is a fairly reactive molecule. It
15 quickly will decay and interact with other constituents in
16 the atmosphere. So many times after a few minutes, it
17 will react with other atmospheric quantities and basically
18 it will disappear and dissociate with the other compounds.
19
Q. Do scientists have a way of describing the
20 rate at which ozone decays?
21
A. There are different decay half-lives or time
22 constants. Typically, in terms of the transmission
23 system, we might look at those in terms of half-lives
24 under wet foul weather conditions and fair weather
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1 conditions, and that would describe how quickly the ozone
2 is going to decay into other products.
3
Q. Dr. Johnson, are you familiar with typical
4 levels of ozone that are found in the absence of
5 transmission lines?
6
A. As part of our monitoring, we would often
7 measure the -- we call them ambient background levels of
8 ozone with all of our transmission test lines turned off,
9 and there were no other transmission lines within the area
10 that would be affecting those measurements. So we had
11 direct recordings of the ozone levels in the absence of
12 transmission lines. We also received records periodically
13 from other monitoring stations within the area of the
14 ozone levels that they were tracking.
15
In general terms of the levels, those would
16 vary oftentimes between about 10 parts per billion at
17 night to daytime levels ranging from 40 or 50 parts per
18 billion to about 90 to a hundred parts per billion during
19 the sunny daytime hours.
20
Q. And would you rely on any treatise or other
21 document to document the levels that you're talking about?
22
A. In addition to our own direct measurements, as
23 I said, there were some measurements by some of the local
24 monitoring stations which, I think, are run by the
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1 Atmospheric Science Center.
2
There is also some documentation provided in a
3 standard utility reference which is the -- oftentimes
4 referred to as the red book or the 345 kV transmission
5 line design book.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Are you just
7
introducing this now?
8
MR. ZIBART: Yes.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. It is
10
entitled Transmission Line Reference Book.
11
And this is part of that book?
12
MR. ZIBART: Yes. It's an excerpt. I
13
have the full -- I have the full book here if
14
anyone would like to look at it.
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. The excerpt
16
will be entitled -- will be numbered
17
Respondent's Exhibit No. 12 -- excuse me --
18
Exhibit 13.
19
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 13
20
marked for identification.)
21 BY MR. ZIBART:
22
Q. Dr. Johnson, looking at what's now been marked
23 as Respondent's Exhibit 13, is that an excerpt from the
24 reference book to which you just referred?
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1
A. Yes. It's the section of the reference book
2 that deals with ozone.
3
Q. Okay. And was there any particular page of
4 that book that specifically described the levels of ozone
5 in the absence of transmission lines?
6
A. Okay. On what is labeled page 200 in that
7 excerpt, there are two graphs there; the bottom one known
8 as figure 4.7.2 is a measure of the ambient ozone
9 variations over roughly a 10-day period.
10
What can be seen in looking at the graph, it
11 varies essentially in a diurnal cycle or a daily cycle
12 with nighttime lows in the range actually getting down to
13 about five parts per billion to about ten parts per
14 billion. Then the peaks up at around 80 to 90 parts per
15 billion are essentially during the daylight hours when the
16 sun is out.
17
There's also toward the latter half of the
18 graph three days when the ozone concentrations are only in
19 the roughly 35 to 45 parts per billion range during the
20 daylight hours or daytime. On those days, it was
21 basically overcast and you did not have sunny conditions.
22 At no time was there a transmission line on during this
23 period.
24
Q. And so what explains why the cloudy days would
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1 have different levels than the sunny days?
2
A. It's my understanding that the interaction of
3 the sunlight with other atmospheric particles, basically
4 volatile organic compounds in the atmosphere -- you get
5 into a wide range of sources -- interact with the sunlight
6 to form ozone. And what you are seeing is that daily
7 cycle between sunshine interacting with these volatile
8 organic compounds producing ozone and the nighttime hours
9 where you don't have that sunlight; and, therefore, the
10 ozone decays, goes away, and you have very low levels.
11
Q. Now, I'd like to ask you some questions about
12 transmission lines and corona.
13
What is transmission line corona?
14
A. Transmission line corona is basically an
15 electrical discharge that forms at the surface of the
16 conductor for the very high voltage transmission lines.
17 Essentially, the transmission lines are designed so that
18 they are corona free; however, atmospheric conditions,
19 basically bugs, debris, nicks in the conductor, scratches
20 on the conductor, essentially small protrusions on the
21 conductor when they are at this high voltage can produce
22 points and form corona at the surface.
23
Now, in fair weather, that generally is not a
24 problem. However, in foul weather conditions when you
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1 have the raindrops, if you think of the conductor, the
2 raindrops form on it and produce nice little droplet
3 points on it, and those will grow into corona.
4
So basically corona phenomena transmission
5 lines basically occur during these foul weather
6 conditions; and the higher the voltage the line, in some
7 respects it's a little more likely to occur in foul
8 weather.
9
Q. You mentioned voltage. Do other -- other
10 electrical features of a line such as the load on the line
11 or the amperage on the line, do those affect the corona?
12
A. No, not -- not the corona. The corona is
13 basically a surface phenomena on the conductor due to its
14 voltage.
15
The other things that are important is the
16 exact geometry of the line, how far above ground it is,
17 how far it is from the other conductors, but not the load
18 or the current through the conductor.
19
Q. And how is ozone created by the corona?
20
A. When you have the corona discharge or the
21 small electrical discharge into the surrounding air, you
22 have what can be thought of as like a small amount of sort
23 of leakage current into the air which then is sufficient
24 with the high electric field strength on the surface of
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1 the conductor to split the oxygen molecule, and then it
2 recombines to form the ozone.
3
So, first, you go through the corona process.
4 You can measure the amount of certain energy that's being
5 lost from the corona as a corona loss. You then have a
6 factor that relates that corona loss produced by a
7 transmission line to the amount of ozone that's going to
8 produce.
9
Q. How efficient is corona at creating ozone?
10
A. Very inefficient. A rough estimate as far as
11 in terms of the corona loss to ozone produced, it's maybe
12 about anywhere from .04 percent to -- oh, under sort of
13 ideal laboratory conditions, you might get up to about, I
14 believe, .7 percent; typically, about .15 percent.
15
Q. And do scientists and engineers have formulas
16 for calculating the amount of ozone that would be
17 associated with the particular transmission line in a
18 particular condition?
19
A. Given the geometry and the voltage of the
20 transmission line, we can calculate the corona loss it
21 would produce under various weather conditions and then
22 from that the amount of ozone that would be produced.
23 That's one of the things that we put into some of the
24 calculating predictive formulas.
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1
Q. And could you describe without giving us all
2 of the numbers and details because I know they will be in
3 some of the documents -- can you sort of describe the
4 formula, how the formula works doing that calculation?
5
A. Well, starting at the beginning, as I said, if
6 you have the geometry of the line, basically the height of
7 the conductors, the size of the conductors, the voltage on
8 the conductors, that is then used to calculate the corona
9 loss from that particular transmission line.
10
Once you have the corona loss, you have a
11 conversion where you predict the number of grams of ozone
12 produced per kilowatt hour of corona loss. That will give
13 you the grams of ozone. Then you can calculate from that
14 how that ozone will disperse from the conductor down to
15 ground and put it in terms of the ozone concentration at a
16 ground level and parts per billion.
17
Q. Given these formulas and the variables that go
18 into them, is there anything that an electric utility like
19 Commonwealth Edison can do to significantly reduce the
20 ozone from corona losses?
21
A. As I said, it's basically a foul weather
22 phenomena and the number of raindrops. The lines are
23 already designed so that in fair weather, they are
24 essentially corona free.
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1
When you have these raindrops hanging on the
2 conductor, that's the point that's going into corona.
3 One -- I guess one obvious way would be to take the
4 transmission lines and remove them from the weather. It's
5 already been mentioned here today; underground it.
6 Another possibility might be to make the conductors
7 extremely big; so big that even with the raindrops, they
8 wouldn't go into corona. But instead of conductors maybe
9 an inch or two in diameter, my guess might be it would
10 require conductors 10 times that size.
11
Q. And in your experience, would that be
12 practical?
13
A. No. It would be -- you'd have to have much
14 larger towers; much larger right-of-way; the questions of
15 supporting the conductors would be a problem; along with
16 all the questions of, I suppose, visual impact.
17
Q. I'd like you to discuss now some of the
18 calculations you performed regarding the ozone from
19 Commonwealth Edison's transmission lines.
20
Can you tell us and tell the Board where
21 you -- sort of what the starting point was for those
22 calculations?
23
A. Okay. Essentially, the calculations that were
24 performed looked at the question of -- tried to address
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1 the question of what was the ozone produced by the
2 Commonwealth transmission system. In that regard, the
3 system was broken up into voltage classes for the three
4 voltage levels of lines in the transmission system, 765 kV
5 transmission lines, 345 kV transmission lines, and 138 kV
6 transmission lines.
7
It was then recognized that these transmission
8 lines, at least for the 138 kV and 345 kV, would occur in
9 typically two different configurations, either a single
10 circuit where you had the three main conductor bundles or
11 in some cases a double circuit where you had two circuits
12 within the same structure.
13
So calculations were done for single circuit
14 138 kV lines, double circuit 138 kV lines, single circuit
15 345 kV lines, double circuit 345 kV lines, and then just a
16 single circuit 765 kV line since that's all they have in
17 their system at the moment.
18
So the calculations were done to determine the
19 corona loss for these five different classes of lines and
20 structures.
21
Q. And what did you -- What did you use in terms
22 of a computer model to calculate that corona loss?
23
A. To determine the corona loss, we used what's
24 called the TL work station, specifically the AC/DC line
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1 module which part of the output of that does determine the
2 corona loss for the various line designs.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record show
4
we are referring to what I'm going to number
5
as Respondent's No. 14.
6
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 14
7
marked for identification.)
8
MR. ZIBART: Okay. I will show that to
9
the witness.
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Corona Loss Results
11
of AC/DC Line Program, Corona.
12
MR. ZIBART: I believe there's -- As part
13
of that same package, Madam Hearing Officer,
14
it goes on to show the rest of Dr. Johnson's
15
calculations. So perhaps the name of the
16
document could be the Corona Loss and Ozone
17
Calculations.
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you.
19 BY THE WITNESS:
20
A. Once we have the corona loss calculated for
21 essentially three weather conditions, fair weather,
22 typical average rain conditions, and heavy rain
23 conditions, we went to a model that's used by the EPA and
24 as referred to in their document which specifies a method
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1 for going from corona loss to both the amount of ozone and
2 the concentration of ozone, maximum concentration of ozone
3 at ground level on an annual basis.
4
Within that model then, we took the corona
5 loss in fair weather and foul weather, applied the factor
6 that goes from kilowatt hours of corona loss to grams of
7 ozone. Under those two weather conditions, the EPA
8 prescribes a mix of weather conditions with 20 percent
9 foul weather, 80 percent fair weather. From that, we
10 determined the basically pounds of ozone per hour being
11 produced for a certain voltage class of line and the
12 number of miles for that type of line.
13
Q. Dr. Johnson, if I could show you what's been
14 previously marked Respondent's Exhibit No. 6, I believe it
15 is -- and I'm referring to pages 226 and 227 of that
16 document -- are those the -- My question to you, sir, is
17 are those the EPA formulas to which you were referring?
18
A. Essentially, the example and the procedures
19 that the EPA refers to those are outlined on page 227 is
20 the same example and method that we use in going from our
21 corona loss to the ozone concentration at ground level.
22
MR. BOGACZ: Excuse me. Where -- Where
23
is this in reference to, which document?
24
MR. ZIBART: This was Respondent's
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140
1
Exhibit No. 6, which was previously admitted
2
into evidence. And it was on page -- I
3
believe the witness said 227.
4
THE WITNESS: 227.
5
MR. BOGACZ: Transmission line reference
6
book?
7
MR. ZIBART: No. Here.
8
(A brief pause.)
9 BY MR. ZIBART:
10
Q. Dr. Johnson, I think you were describing how
11 you calculated the concentration of ozone at ground level;
12 is that right?
13
A. Right. Once we had the amount of ozone
14 produced per hour, that then acted as what we call the
15 source term in a diffusion model to describe how that
16 ozone diffuses out away from the conductor and is
17 transported down to the ground level.
18
Now, in the EPA model, it basically prescribes
19 a somewhat simplification of the more complex diffusion
20 formula so that what you end up is simply the maximum
21 concentration. So it simply solves the equation looking
22 for the maximum ground level concentration. We took our
23 ozone source being produced at the conductor, took the --
24 a typical heighth of the conductor, a wind speed of one
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1 mile per hour which is also described in the EPA
2 documents, and then used that to calculate the
3 concentration of the ozone at ground level.
4
In the case of the 765 kV line, the average
5 annual mix of weather conditions resulted in an annual
6 ozone level at ground of about .56 parts per billion.
7
Q. Can you tell us to what page of Respondent's
8 Exhibit 14 you are referring?
9
A. It's about the seventh page in. It's the page
10 labeled page 1, 8-9-96. And it's the page in the upper
11 left-hand corner also as identified by the 765 kV.
12
Q. And on the following pages, did you do a
13 similar calculation for the other voltages common in
14 Commonwealth Edison's transmission system?
15
A. Yes, we did. We then looked at the other line
16 configurations and voltage levels. Page 2 of that
17 document -- what's labeled as page 2 of that document is
18 the 345 kV double circuit configuration in the case where
19 we had two 345 lines on the same tower configuration.
20
Q. And what was the result of your calculation?
21
A. The maximum ground level concentration for the
22 year results at about .34 parts per billion.
23
The next page is for the 345 kV single circuit
24 situation going through the same procedures that resulted
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1 in about a .13 part per billion maximum ground level for
2 the year.
3
Q. What about the 138 kV double circuit
4 information?
5
A. Okay. Going on to the next page, on page 4 of
6 that document, what's labeled page 4 of that document, for
7 138 kV, double circuit, that resulted in a .0024 parts per
8 billion ozone level.
9
As I said, as we get into the lower voltage
10 lines, there is less voltage and also much less corona and
11 ozone being produced.
12
For the single circuit 138 kV line, an even
13 lower level of ozone; the calculated amount being .0009
14 parts per billion.
15
Q. And to clarify, do these calculations that you
16 did as to the concentrations, these parts per billion --
17 do those calculations take into account the constant decay
18 of ozone that you described earlier?
19
A. No, they don't. In a somewhat simplified EPA
20 model, the decay of the ozone is not considered. And,
21 again, it is simplified just to determine the maximal
22 level of ozone at ground level.
23
Q. Okay. What would you conclude about the
24 actual amount of ozone that one would experience at ground
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1 level?
2
A. That, if anything, these numbers are somewhat
3 higher than what the actual levels would be for these line
4 configurations.
5
Q. Dr. Johnson, have you done any other
6 calculation regarding the total amount of ozone from
7 Com Ed's transmission lines?
8
A. Yes, I have.
9
Since these calculations really did not take
10 into the question of the ozone decay, and that would be a
11 strong factor in foul weather conditions since the typical
12 half-life of ozone in foul weather precipitation type
13 conditions is only about five minutes compared to about an
14 hour or so in fair weather.
15
What we did was went back and looked at the
16 situation considering the ozone decay to determine what
17 would be the total amount of ozone in the atmosphere due
18 to the entire Commonwealth Edison system at any one time
19 for different weather conditions, fair weather and foul
20 weather and then extreme foul weather, very heavy rain
21 conditions. Those calculations are shown later on in
22 Exhibit 14.
23
Q. Okay. What was -- What was your result for
24 the fair weather condition?
L.A. REPORTING
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1
A. Essentially, there would be no contribution in
2 fair weather. The lines would not be in corona and
3 producing ozone.
4
Q. And what about foul weather?
5
A. In foul weather, because of the ozone decay,
6 we would essentially hit an equilibrium level of ozone.
7 And looking at the entire Commonwealth Edison system and
8 using a decay of the ozone in these foul weather
9 precipitation type conditions of 10 minutes, the total
10 amount of ozone existing in the atmosphere at any one time
11 was about 154 pounds.
12
Q. And that would be the entire Com Ed system all
13 over Northern Illinois?
14
A. Right. That was considering census, all the
15 circuit miles of 765, 345, and 138 kV transmission lines.
16
Q. Did you also do a calculation for that heavy
17 rain situation?
18
A. Yes, we did. That's considering very heavy
19 rain, also assuming that those same conditions would be
20 present over the entire system at the same time, which is
21 extremely unlikely.
22
But for those calculations for the entire
23 Commonwealth Edison system, the total amount of ozone
24 existing would be about 156 pounds. In those heavy rain
L.A. REPORTING
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1 conditions, we had an ozone half-life of about five
2 minutes.
3
Q. Okay.
4
A. So it was more intense corona, but a shorter
5 half-life; and the end result was that it stablized at
6 about 156 pounds.
7
Q. So which of the three scenarios had the
8 highest ozone levels?
9
A. The extremely heavy rain conditions.
10
Q. Okay. And what would be the least?
11
A. Fair weather.
12
Q. Okay. Can you compare those numbers to when
13 you would expect the ambient levels not due to
14 transmission lines to typically be their highest and
15 lowest?
16
A. Okay. As I mentioned earlier when I referred
17 to the one figure showing the daily variation of the
18 ozone, you had peak levels without transmission lines of
19 about 80 to 90 parts per billion essentially on very
20 clear, sunny days.
21
On days when it was overcast, but not raining,
22 your levels dropped down about 40 to 50 parts per billion,
23 and that compares with the different transmission line
24 scenarios occurring under rain and foul weather conditions
L.A. REPORTING
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1 where the levels were less than one part per billion.
2
Q. Dr. Johnson, based on your studies, would you
3 conclude that someone living near a right-of-way, a
4 transmission line right-of-way, a Commonwealth Edison
5 transmission line right-of-way, would experience
6 significantly increased ozone exposure?
7
A. No.
8
Q. And do you conclude that the Commonwealth
9 Edison transmission lines are significantly increasing
10 overall ozone in the Chicago area?
11
A. Just to make sure I understood that correctly,
12 could you repeat it again?
13
Q. Okay. Actually, I'll rephrase it.
14
Do you conclude that Commonwealth Edison's
15 transmission lines are significantly increasing overall
16 ozone in the Northern Illinois area?
17
A. No.
18
Q. Dr. Johnson, I want to go back to your
19 calculation on the highest concentrations at ground level,
20 that first calculation that you did.
21
A. All right.
22
Q. I just want to be clear on what that
23 calculation results in in terms of a maximum
24 concentration.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
Is that the -- Could you describe what that
2 means, the distance from the line, or what the -- what the
3 maximum concentration means of that calculation?
4
A. What the diffusional equation that the EPA is
5 discussing, what it is set up to determine is, in
6 actuality, if you have a transmission line and you're
7 looking at a wind transverse to it, the ozone will diffuse
8 out from the transmission line; and if you can envision it
9 as sort of a plume moving out from the conductor.
10
As that moves out and downwind at ground
11 level, if you're moving along, you will at the first as
12 you move away from the line see nothing because the ozone
13 is not diffused down to it.
14
As you go further and further away from the
15 line, you finally reach a distance at which the ozone is
16 just beginning to reach the ground. And so then you see
17 the ozone concentration due to the line start to increase
18 from zero.
19
As you go further downwind, essentially more
20 of that ozone is reaching the ground; your concentration
21 will go up. At some point, you hit your highest value
22 downwind of the line. If you go down even further, by
23 that point, the ozone has dispersed even more, and the
24 concentrations start dropping.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
So the model that the EPA uses in its approach
2 is determine the position downwind where that highest
3 level of diffuse ozone will be reached and what that level
4 will be. So it's a -- essentially the maximal level of
5 that profile of the ozone as you move downwind.
6
Now, it's for the conditions also -- that
7 level is then figured for the various weather conditions
8 in terms of the fair and foul weather.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: This will be
10
Respondent's Exhibit No. 15.
11
(Respondent's Exhibit No. 15
12
marked for identification.)
13 BY MR. ZIBART:
14
Q. Dr. Johnson, I'm showing you what's been
15 marked now as Respondent's Exhibit 15. Do you recognize
16 that document?
17
A. Yes, I do.
18
Q. And what is it?
19
A. It's a document describing the ozone levels
20 that were measured downwind of a transmission line
21 basically adjacent to the 765 kV line. I believe this is
22 here part of the Commonwealth Edison system, study
23 commission with Commonwealth Edison and IITRI.
24
Q. And what is IITRI?
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1
A. Illinois Institute of Technology Research
2 Institute.
3
Q. Is it fair to say this is a technical research
4 or -- I guess it's a technical research paper?
5
A. Yes. It is a technical paper by its markings.
6 It was submitted to the IEEE Transmission and Distribution
7 Committee as part of the -- essentially peer review
8 literature.
9
Q. And --
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Can you identify
11
the date of the document?
12
THE WITNESS: From the information that's
13
on it, it was made available for printing in
14
December of -- Actually, I believe December of
15
'73 and was presented at the IEEE Power
16
Engineering Society winter meeting in
17
January/February of 1974.
18
THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you.
19 BY MR. ZIBART:
20
Q. Based on your review of this document, would
21 you agree with the conclusions that it reaches?
22
A. Yes.
23
MR. ZIBART: Madam Hearing Officer, I
24
have no further questions for Dr. Johnson at
L.A. REPORTING
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1
this time on direct examination.
2
At this time, I would move for the
3
admission of Respondent's Exhibits 12 through
4
15.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. With respect
6
to the exhibits --
7
MR. ZIBART: Oh, I'm sorry.
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- I have a
9
question on Respondent's Exhibit 13.
10
What is the date of that exhibit? That
11
is the one entitled Transmission Line
12
Reference Book, and it includes a short
13
number of pages from that book.
14
MR. ZIBART: I am handing Dr. Johnson at
15
this time the original of his dog-eared red
16
book.
17
THE WITNESS: I apologize for that.
18
The second edition was published in 1982.
19
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
20
you.
21
And then we need to clear up whether a
22
blank page in Respondent's Exhibit 14 was
23
intended to include information that it does
24
not include.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
Counsel, do you want to look at my copy
2
of that?
3
THE WITNESS: I have the same thing, I
4
think.
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Is that a
6
page which did not include information which
7
does not need to be in this exhibit?
8
THE WITNESS: It's an extra page and does
9
not need to be included by any means.
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: It is an extra
11
page?
12
THE WITNESS: It's an extra page.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Then is
14
there any objection by Mr. Bogacz to the
15
introduction of these exhibits into evidence?
16
MR. BOGACZ: No.
17
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. These
18
exhibits are entered into evidence.
19
(Respondent's Exhibit Nos. 12-15
20
admitted into evidence.)
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: At this time,
22
Dr. Johnson, Mr. Bogacz is given an
23
opportunity to cross-examine you on your
24
testimony here.
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1
Do you want to proceed?
2
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
3
CROSS-EXAMINATION
4 BY MR. BOGACZ:
5
Q. Dr. Johnson, have you ever contracted with the
6 United States U.S. EPA for any work or consulting?
7
A. No, sir.
8
Q. What is the under -- your understanding of the
9 U.S. EPA in regards to ozone production by transmission
10 lines or otherwise?
11
THE HEARING OFFICER: Could you be more
12
specific in your question?
13
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
14 BY MR. BOGACZ:
15
Q. Well, what is the responsibility of the EPA
16 basically?
17
A. I think -- I don't really feel qualified to
18 answer that for the EPA.
19
Q. Well, I mean, it's basic -- Everybody knows
20 it.
21
THE HEARING OFFICER: If you don't know,
22
sir, you could say you don't know.
23 BY THE WITNESS:
24
A. I don't know.
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1
THE HEARING OFFICER: If you do know
2
something about it, then I think that the
3
question is asking you to tell us what it is.
4 BY THE WITNESS:
5
A. My understanding of the EPA -- and this is a
6 personal observation -- is it is interested in basic air
7 quality and pollutants amongst many other things.
8
Q. I have a question about these calculations. I
9 forget which one. The one with the table. I don't
10 remember now. I didn't mark down which number it was.
11
A. Okay. We are talking about this one?
12
Q. Yeah. The results of AC/DC line program?
13
A. Right. Exhibit 14, I believe.
14
Q. Okay.
15
THE HEARING OFFICER: Correct.
16
MR. BOGACZ: Thanks.
17 BY MR. BOGACZ:
18
Q. On page -- Starting on page 1 in the back
19 dated 8-9-96 --
20
A. And with 765 in the upper left-hand corner?
21
Q. Yes. In the left-hand bottom corner, it says
22 Brian S. Cramer, P, period, E, period.
23
A. Right.
24
Q. Are you -- Did you make these calculations
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1 along with Mr. Cramer or --
2
A. Yes. Brian Cramer is a professional engineer
3 with Commonwealth Edison. He had the detailed information
4 in terms of the line design and lengths of line, and the
5 calculations were performed with -- in conjunction with
6 him and basically directing him as far as the types of
7 calculations and what calculations to perform. He had
8 ready access to the information.
9
Q. So you did not do these calculations?
10
A. No. I did the calculations. I guess I'm not
11 sure -- In terms of preparing this exact page?
12
Q. Right.
13
A. Brian Cramer prepared it; but in terms of the
14 calculations and the actual numbers, I directed Brian
15 Cramer.
16
Q. Were any of these calculations submitted to
17 the United States EPA or the Illinois EPA at any time that
18 you know of?
19
A. These calculations being presented here in
20 Exhibit 14, to my knowledge, no.
21
Q. What are the byproducts of ozone deteriorating
22 in the rain?
23
A. In many cases, that will go back into the
24 constituent parts of the oxygen. Basically, you'll get a
L.A. REPORTING
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1 reaction with the water droplet, the exact chemical
2 species that are produced. I don't know specifically.
3 Perhaps Dr. Vostal can speak to that.
4
DR. VOSTAL: That's correct.
5 BY MR. BOGACZ:
6
Q. In your -- With your knowledge, would you say
7 that acids were formed?
8
A. I don't know.
9
Q. Would the oxygen -- or the ozone when it
10 deteriorates, does it combine with any possible other
11 pollutants in the atmosphere?
12
A. I'm sure it's possible.
13
Q. Dr. Johnson, do you know what acid rain is?
14
A. In general terms, I believe so.
15
Q. How is that form in the atmosphere?
16
THE HEARING OFFICER: Sir, could you
17
please state the relationship of this question
18
to the doctor's testimony?
19
MR. BOGACZ: Yes, the deterioration of
20
ox -- ozone.
21 BY MR. BOGACZ:
22
Q. As I asked you before about the byproducts,
23 would you say this acid rain is a byproduct of the
24 deterioration of ozone?
L.A. REPORTING
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1
A. I don't know.
2
Q. Has the document -- The large document here
3 with the EPA description, identification, and
4 characterization of missing or unaccounted for area source
5 categories --
6
A. Right.
7
Q. -- you're familiar with that?
8
You're utilizing the page 226?
9
A. 227.
10
Q. And 227. The information -- The information
11 obtained from sources by the EPA to compile this
12 particular section is listed on 229.
13
MR. ZIBART: I don't think the witness
14
has a copy of the document in front of him.
15 BY MR. BOGACZ:
16
Q. Oh, you don't?
17
A. You said page 229?
18
Q. Yes.
19
A. All right. Okay. I have it.
20
Q. There are references 1 through 7.
21
A. Correct.
22
Q. Basically, they are all sources of information
23 compiled by the IEEE; would you agree with that?
24
A. That's correct. The reference list appears
L.A. REPORTING
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1 that all of them are technical papers appearing in the
2 literature of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic
3 Engineers or IEEE.
4
Q. Do you know of any BPA studies regarding ozone
5 production?
6
A. BPA has made measurements and reported on
7 their attempts to measure the ozone downwind of some of
8 their transmission lines. And I am aware of probably one
9 or two documents in that respect, one of -- or both of
10 which I think were presented this morning.
11
Q. In your description of these calculations
12 utilizing this page 226 and 227, you were referring to
13 fair weather and foul weather; is that correct?
14
A. That's correct, yes.
15
Q. Are there any studies that you know of
16 indicating what the ozone emissions would be during fair
17 weather?
18
A. Essentially, from the information that I know
19 of, ozone emission by transmission lines in fair weather,
20 high voltage AC transmission lines simply aren't in corona
21 emitting ozone in fair weather.
22
Q. And why is that?
23
A. Mainly because of the design of the
24 conductors and the fact that you don't have the
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1 precipitation or the raindrops on conductors going into
2 the corona.
3
Q. So would you say that moisture has a lot to do
4 with the production of ozone?
5
A. For transmission lines, yes; mainly in the
6 terms that it's producing the protrusions or the points
7 sticking out on the conductor. If you had a very severe
8 scratch or nick, something that would also form a
9 protrusion or drop on the conductor similar to a raindrop,
10 I suppose that also would cause corona.
11
Q. So would you agree that high humidity without
12 rain would still produce corona and ozone without rain?
13
A. High humidity without rain, it is very
14 unlikely because you're not getting the droplet, the
15 precipitation droplet forming on the conductor.
16 Generally, you are looking more for the snow, rain, ice
17 type conditions.
18
Under extreme high humidity, saturation type
19 conditions, 100 percent type humidity, then I suppose it
20 might be possible depending on the exact temperature and
21 heating at the line.
22
Q. Do you know of any studies in that regard?
23
A. We have tried to make measurements of the
24 ozone from some of our transmission lines in a variety of
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1 weather conditions, some of which include fog. I believe
2 the BPA has also tried to look at some of their
3 transmission lines under various weather conditions.
4
Essentially, it's been focusing on
5 precipitation because if you are going to see something,
6 that's when you are more likely to be able to detect it.
7 In general, even fair or foul weather, either weather
8 condition, at ground level they have not been able to
9 detect any significant difference between the ambient
10 levels.
11
Q. Can you list any specific numbers, EPA
12 document or reports regarding this phenomena, you know,
13 the fair weather, high humidity?
14
A. At this moment, I couldn't list any EPA
15 documents. I believe there was the one BPA document that
16 was referred to this morning along being supplied by the
17 DOE that did in a limited extent say that attempts were
18 made to measure the ozone and it was not seen.
19
Q. Are you acquainted with a Mr. James A. Raub,
20 R-a-u-b, of the U.S. EPA, Office of Research and
21 Development --
22
A. No, I am not.
23
Q. -- Reserve Triangle Park?
24
A. No, sir, I am not.
L.A. REPORTING
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1
Q. You've never submitted any documents to
2 Mr. Raub?
3
A. Not to my knowledge.
4
Q. On page -- let's see -- 228 --
5
THE HEARING OFFICER: You're referring to
6
exhibit what?
7
MR. BOGACZ: Wait. Am I reading the
8
right one? Oh, 226. I'm sorry.
9
THE HEARING OFFICER: What exhibit number
10
are you referring to?
11
MR. BOGACZ: Oh, I'm sorry. It's the
12
same document.
13
THE HEARING OFFICER: Six? Respondent's
14
Exhibit 6?
15 BY THE WITNESS:
16
A. On page 226 --
17
Q. Yes.
18
A. -- of the EPA --
19
Q. Yes, of the extra high voltage transmission
20 line designation at the top.
21
At the bottom of the page, the sources of
22 direct ozone production are not covered in typical SIP
23 inventories. The corona developed around EHV power lines
24 produces ozone. Do you know what that designation means,
L.A. REPORTING
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1 SIP inventories, that term?
2
A. I would have to say no, I don't. Could --
3 Could that be defined?
4
Q. In regard -- in reference to the EPA, it can
5 be, I guess. I believe it's an abbreviation for
6 stationary something or other.
7
But you're not familiar with that, SIP?
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: The acronym has
9
several identifications. One of them is State
10
Implementation Plan. I don't think that
11
applies here.
12 BY MR. BOGACZ:
13
Q. On page 228, methodology, it says presently no
14 methodology exists for estimating ozone emissions from EHV
15 transmission lines.
16
THE HEARING OFFICER: What is your
17
question?
18 BY MR. BOGACZ:
19
Q. Is that a term or -- Would you agree with
20 that?
21
A. No, I would not. I don't believe that is true
22 at the present time. I think possibly since this document
23 has been -- or at least since that paragraph was initially
24 written, there has been methodology developed and a number
L.A. REPORTING
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1 of tests done to look at the question of ozone created
2 from transmission lines and attempts to calculate and
3 estimate what those levels are.
4
In fact, within the own document, they give a
5 methodology that can be used to estimate that ground level
6 ozone concentration.
7
Q. But you don't know of any major study by the
8 EPA that defines any kind of emission standards from
9 calculations or laboratory experiments and so forth?
10
A. For transmission lines?
11
Q. Right.
12
A. Not to my knowledge. In general, the levels
13 from transmission lines are so low at this point, that
14 they have not really come into question.
15
Q. You agree that Commonwealth Edison and the
16 IEEE, the Electric Power Research Institute, and other
17 private engineering or research laboratories, including
18 yourself, they are not responsible for determining whether
19 or not pollution is created by ozone being produced by
20 high voltage transmission lines?
21
A. Okay. I'm not sure if I understand the
22 question. Could you repeat that?
23
THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you mean are
24
they legally responsible?
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1
MR. BOGACZ: Right.
2
THE HEARING OFFICER: You mean are they
3
legally required to do that, to test that?
4
MR. BOGACZ: Uh-huh, are they legally
5
required to determine these -- do they have
6
legal standing in any way.
7
THE HEARING OFFICER: That's a different
8
question, Mr. Bogacz.
9
MR. BOGACZ: What?
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: That would be a
11
different question.
12
MR. BOGACZ: Oh.
13 BY MR. BOGACZ:
14
Q. Well, do any of these private groups or
15 individuals, companies, including the United States
16 Department of Energy, the Bonneville Power
17 Administration -- are any of these groups or individuals,
18 companies, administrations legally responsible for
19 enforcing the pollution laws of the country?
20
A. If I understand the question right, you're
21 asking if a number of entities such as Commonwealth
22 Edison, EPRI, IEEE, BPA --
23
Q. No, no, not the EPA. I didn't say EPA.
24
A. BPA, Bonneville Power Administration.
L.A. REPORTING
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164
1
Q. Right. Oh, BPA, right.
2
A. (Continuing.) -- are legally charged with
3 enforcing --
4
Q. The pollution laws for determining whether
5 there is pollution in the environment.
6
A. They would have to abide by whatever rules and
7 regulations there are.
8
I know that IEEE and EPRI are basically
9 organizations that really would have no opportunity or
10 role to even be in that arena.
11
As far as the other agencies I believe you
12 mentioned, as I said, they have to abide by the rules and
13 regulations that are out there.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: I believe the
15
witness has answered your question to the best
16
of his ability.
17
Do you have any further questions for the
18
witness on cross-examination?
19
MR. BOGACZ: Yes.
20
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you please
21
limit your questions to the statements that
22
Dr. Johnson made during his testimony?
23
MR. BOGACZ: Are you objecting to the
24
last one?
L.A. REPORTING
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165
1
THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you please
2
limit your questions to clarifications or
3
challenges of statements that Dr. Johnson made
4
during his testimony.
5
MR. BOGACZ: I think I asked that
6
question already.
7
I think that's about it for now.
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: Does that conclude
9
your questions of Dr. Johnson? Does that
10
conclude your questions of Dr. Johnson?
11
MR. BOGACZ: Yes, at this time.
12
THE HEARING OFFICER: Is there any
13
redirect?
14
MR. ZIBART: Just very briefly.
15
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
16 BY MR. ZIBART:
17
Q. Dr. Johnson, Mr. Bogacz asked you about some
18 of the Bonneville Power Administration studies that -- or
19 whether you were familiar with any of them.
20
And that's -- I guess Bonneville Power
21 Administration, that's what you referred to by the --
22
A. BPA.
23
Q. -- BPA. All right.
24
I show you what's already been admitted into
L.A. REPORTING
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1 evidence as Respondent's Exhibit 2. Take a look at that
2 one and see if that's one of the documents to which you
3 were referring.
4
A. Yes. That's the one I was referring to as far
5 as the document earlier this morning, one of them.
6
Q. All right. And would you take a look at
7 Respondent's Exhibit 5.
8
Is that also a Bonneville Power Administration
9 study?
10
A. Yes, it is. It's basically a BPA report
11 typical of what they file for the various research
12 projects dealing with their 1,200 kV high voltage line.
13
Q. Would you tell -- In case some of the people
14 here or members of the Board aren't familiar with
15 Bonneville Power Administration, what is that
16 organization?
17
A. Bonneville Power Administration is a --
18 essentially one of two government utilities, the other one
19 being the Tennessee Valley Authority. Both were set up
20 originally to administer and take advantage of the
21 hydroelectric facilities, the river potential along the
22 Columbia River in the case of Bonneville Power
23 Administration and a similar role for Tennessee Valley
24 Authority.
L.A. REPORTING
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167
1
But they essentially are government associated
2 utilities. Bonneville Power Administration is in the
3 pacific northwest along the Columbia River.
4
MR. ZIBART: I have no further questions
5
for Dr. Johnson.
6
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
7
MR. BOGACZ: I have some questions.
8
THE HEARING OFFICER: The only question
9
you could ask him at this point, Mr. Bogacz,
10
would be a question that would challenge his
11
answer related to what Bonneville Power
12
Administration was --
13
MR. BOGACZ: Yeah.
14
THE HEARING OFFICER: -- or whether those
15
two exhibits that were identified as
16
Respondent's Exhibits Nos. 2 and 5 were, in
17
fact, the ones that he was referring to.
18
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
19 BY MR. BOGACZ:
20
Q. The BPA is required to obey or comply with
21 environmental regulations set by the U.S. EPA; is that not
22 so?
23
A. I would have to assume that they are like any
24 other agency; that they have to abide by the rules and
L.A. REPORTING
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168
1 regulations that affect their operations.
2
Q. Thank you.
3
THE HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank
4
you very much.
5
At this point, we'll take a five-minute
6
recess and discuss the remainder of the
7
hearing schedule.
8
Off the record.
9
(Discussion off the record.)
10
THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. We are back
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on the record just briefly, and it's a little
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after 4:00 p.m. The building that we are in
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closes at 4:30, and we have arranged
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previously for the use of this room tomorrow
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should we need it.
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At this point in time, Respondent, you
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will have some additional witnesses, I
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believe?
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MR. ZIBART: That's right.
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THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay.
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And so I think that what we've decided to
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do is conclude our proceedings for today, and
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we will come back into session tomorrow
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morning at 10:00 a.m. at this same location.
L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
169
1
Thank you very much.
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MR. ZIBART: Thank you.
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MR. BOGACZ: Okay.
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(Which were all the proceedings
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had in this matter at this time.)
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L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292
170
1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )
) SS.
2 COUNTY OF C O O K )
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4
I, MICHELLE M. DOSE, C.S.R., do hereby state
5 that I am a court reporter doing business in the City of
6 Chicago, County of Cook, and State of Illinois; that I
7 reported by means of machine shorthand the proceedings
8 held in the foregoing cause, and that the foregoing is a
9 true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken
10 as aforesaid.
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__________________________________
MICHELLE M. DOSE, C.S.R.
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Notary Public, Cook County, IL
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19 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO
before me this______day
20 of_________, A.D., 1996.
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________________________
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Notary Public
•
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L.A. REPORTING
(312) 419-9292