ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD

PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF )

ILLINOIS, )

)

Complainant, )

)

vs ) No. PCB 97-010

)

ALLSTEEL, INC. )

)

Respondent. )

The following is the transcript of a hearing held in

the above-entitled matter, taken stenographically by

Geanna M. Iaquinta, CSR, a notary public within and for

the County of Cook and State of Illinois, before Mr. John

Burds, Hearing Officer, at 1300 South Broadway,

Montgomery, Illinois, on the 19th day of November, 1997,

A.D., scheduled to commence at 2:00 o'clock p.m.,

commencing at 2:10 p.m.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

A P P E A R A N C E S:

HEARING TAKEN BEFORE:

ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD

100 West Randolph Street

Suite 11-500

Chicago, Illinois 60601

(312) 814-4925

BY: MR. JOHN BURDS

ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL MEMBERS PRESENT:

Ms. Deborah L. Feinen

ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY MEMBERS

PRESENT:

Mr. Donald L. Gimbel

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

I N D E X

PAGES

GREETING BY HEARING OFFICER.............. 4

OPENING BY MR. MACKOFF................... 5

OPENING BY MS. LANDOW-ESSER.............. 7

QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION............. 10

TESTIMONY BY JOHN DuROCHER.............. 12

CLOSING BY HEARING OFFICER.............. 14

NO EXHIBITS MARKED

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record reflect

that today's date is November 19th, 1997. It's

approximately ten after 2:00 p.m. on that date.

I am Jack Burds. I am a hearing officer with the

Illinois Pollution Control Board. I will be conducting

the hearing in Pollution Control Board 97-010, the

parties being the People of the State of Illinois as

complainant versus Allsteel, Incorporated as respondent.

I would note for the record that members of the public

are present. I would like at this time the parties'

counsel if they are present to identify themselves for

the record.

MR. MACKOFF: Mike Mackoff, M-a-c-k-o-f-f,

assistant attorney general on behalf of the complainant.

THE HEARING OFFICER: And, Mr. Mackoff, do you

have anybody with you today?

MR. MACKOFF: Mr. Hearing Officer, we have Don

Gimbel from the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you.

For Allsteel.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Janine Landow-Esser,

J-a-n-i-n-e, L-a-n-d-o-w, dash, E-s-s-e-r, with the law

firm of Holleb & Coff for Allsteel.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Are there any

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

other attorneys representing parties that would like to

enter an appearance at this time?

MR. EDWARDS: I represent the Village of

Montgomery, but the Village of Montgomery is not a party.

THE HEARING OFFICER: I understand. Would you

state your name, sir?

MR. EDWARDS: James Edwards.

THE HEARING OFFICER: And you represent?

MR. EDWARDS: The Village of Montgomery.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Okay. Again,

I would note that members of the public are present.

I'm going to go through the litany of the enforcement

process. At this time, would anybody like to make a

statement on the record, an opening statement?

Mr. Mackoff?

MR. MACKOFF: Mr. Hearing Officer, do you mind

if I do it from here or do you --

THE HEARING OFFICER: Wherever is convenient

for the court reporter.

MR. MACKOFF: The court reporter. If you'd

like, I can stand out here.

Good morning, Mr. Hearing Officer. On July 11th,

1996, the State of Illinois filed a 14-count complaint

against Allsteel, Incorporated for numerous RCRA

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

violations at their facility located on Allsteel Drive in

Kane County, Illinois.

The violations cited in the complaint occurred on --

from August 20th, 1993, through January 20th, 1994.

On June 25th, 1997, the parties entered a negotiated

stipulation, a proposal for settlement, in front of the

Board. As noted in the documents, the parties have come

to this agreement voluntarily.

The respondent does not admit to the factual or legal

allegations made by the complainant and that in

settlement of the case, the company will make a civil

penalty payment to the State of Illinois.

It is also noted in the stipulation the fact that the

parties posit the fact that Allsteel has shut down its

operations in the State of Illinois and has moved

elsewhere.

At this point, we would -- we are asking the Board to

approve the stipulation as negotiated by the parties and

without any -- I guess without any further statement.

THE HEARING OFFICER: I am correct, am I not,

Mr. Mackoff, that that document has been filed with the

Board and is on file with the Board now?

MR. MACKOFF: Yes, Mr. Hearing Officer.

THE HEARING OFFICER: And has not been amended

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

or changed in any way?

MR. MACKOFF: It has not.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Landow-Esser, do you

have any objection to that, or is that your

understanding?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: That's my understanding, and

I would simply second the fact that we support the

settlement and would like to see it finalized.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Mackoff, anything

else that the state would like to add?

MR. MACKOFF: No. Actually, one -- just one

small, I guess, bookkeeping matter. The -- I noticed

this as I was preparing for the hearing. In Section 4C

where it just repeats the alleged violations in the

complaint, I noticed that Count 14 there is -- it was

actually a 14-count complaint. Count -- the allegations

of Count 14 were left out of this list. It is a

typographical error, and it has no bearing on the

substance of the stipulation.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Landow-Esser?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: I can't remember what Count

14 was, but I don't think it will have any bearing.

MR. MACKOFF: That's the stipulation. I'll

give you the --

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Right. Fourteen is not in

here, right?

THE HEARING OFFICER: Am I correct,

Mr. Mackoff, that's just -- this is just repeating the --

MR. MACKOFF: Exactly, your Honor. It has no

substantive effect at all. It is just a drafting error

that I caught this morning.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Noted.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: I can't really respond,

although assuming it's as counsel suggested, it wouldn't

bear on the --

THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, let me ask you

this, Ms. Landow-Esser. Your understanding was that it

was a 14-count complaint?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: That's my recollection.

It's been quite a while since we had this in front of us.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Well, why don't we do

this?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Don, do you have --

THE HEARING OFFICER: If there is --

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: You've got -- that was the

complaint.

MR. MACKOFF: This was the complaint. It's

file stamped.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Yeah.

THE HEARING OFFICER: I have a copy of the

complaint.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Yeah. I just didn't bring

it with me. I brought the stipulation.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Do you want a moment to

verify that, Ms. Landow-Esser?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Yeah. Why don't I just do

that?

MR. MACKOFF: Sure.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Let's do that, and

then we'll make our record.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Sorry.

MR. MACKOFF: It's the last page.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Right. It says Count 14 on

it. It was a 14-count complaint. Okay.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. For the record, I

believe Ms. Landow-Esser has had an opportunity to review

the complaint.

Ms. Landow-Esser, do you have any comment regarding

Mr. Mackoff's representations regarding the failure of

the stipulation settlement to include Count 14?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: It doesn't include Count 14,

and as long as I understand him correctly that there --

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

that should we include that, it would have no bearing on

any other portion of the settlement, then I think it's

just a typographical error that can be corrected.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Mackoff, anything

else that the state would like to provide?

MR. MACKOFF: No, sir.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Landow-Esser,

anything on behalf of the respondent?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: No.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. At this time, what

I would ask from any interested citizens or other members

of the public are any statements that they may have at

this time.

MR. EDWARDS: Question?

THE HEARING OFFICER: Yes.

MR. EDWARDS: When and where will this

stipulation be presented to the Board?

THE HEARING OFFICER: This stipulation was

filed with the Board I believe, in fact, I have a filing

date of June 25th of 1997.

MR. EDWARDS: When will it be acted on?

THE HEARING OFFICER: That I can't guarantee

you with any certainty, but the Board has regular

scheduled meeting dates. The next date would be December

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

4th. That -- I apologize. The next date is tomorrow,

November 20th.

After that would be December 4th, and I believe the

next date then is either the 18th of December or the 20th

of December. I don't recall what the third date is. I

can certainly get that information.

Which date they will choose to act upon the settlement

of stipulation and dismissal, I'm not sure, but I

would -- if I was to pose a guess, I would assume before

the end of the year, but I can't guarantee that either.

MR. EDWARDS: Where can we get a copy of this

stipulation?

THE HEARING OFFICER: Perhaps -- well, the

Board would obviously provide a copy for you. I don't

know -- you can certainly make a copy of the one that

I've been provided today if you wish.

MR. EDWARDS: Thank you.

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: Do you want to make a copy?

MR. DuROCHER: If this is the same one.

MR. EDWARDS: Oh, you've got it.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Let the record reflect

that Ms. Landow-Esser has provided a copy to Mr. Edwards

who has represented himself as the attorney for the

Village of Montgomery.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Now, are there any other statements from concerned

citizens or other interested parties?

MR. DuROCHER: May I?

MR. EDWARDS: Sure.

MR. DuROCHER: John DuRocher, I'm the village

administrator for the village.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Would you spell your last

name for the record?

MR. DuROCHER: D-u, capital R, o-c-h-e-r.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. DuRocher, please

raise your right hand and be sworn in. We'll have the

court swear you in. I apologize, the court reporter

swear you in.

(Witness sworn.)

WHEREUPON:

J O H N D u R O C H E R,

called as a witness herein, having been first duly sworn,

deposeth and saith as follows:

MR. DuROCHER: Back in the late 1980s, Allsteel

had a chemical spill or a leaking underground storage

tank that leached into the groundwater.

The Village of Montgomery has a water treatment

facility located across the street from the Allsteel

plant, and it was our firm belief that the contaminants,

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

the VOCs, the volatile organic compounds that were in the

groundwater leached into the groundwater supply and

forced the Village of Montgomery to add an extra step to

our water treatment process.

Basically, we added what's called an air stripper to

our water treatment process to take out some of the

chemicals that were in the ground, and this is part of --

was part of an IEPA investigation.

It was our understanding that there was some linkage

between what's going on now with this hearing and the

prior leakage, and that's why the village asked for a

public hearing because we wanted to find out if there was

a relationship and what the status of the prior leak

was.

So that's why we're here now. In conversation with

the attorney general, there is no real direct connection

between the complaint that was -- is being acted on now

and the prior leak, but we wanted to know what the status

is of the prior complaint and how it impacts the

village. That is the essence of our request for the

hearing.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Mr. DuRocher, what is

your position?

MR. DuROCHER: I'm the village administrator.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

THE HEARING OFFICER: Anything else,

Mr. DuRocher?

MR. DuROCHER: No. That's all.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Any other comments from

members of the public or other concerned parties?

Okay. I'm going to ask at this time if anybody has

any closing statements that they'd like to make.

Mr. Mackoff?

MR. MACKOFF: No.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Landow-Esser?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: No, no statement.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Okay. I'd like to thank

you all for -- I think this will be unnecessary, but what

I would like to do at this point is ask if there is any

intention of a briefing schedule if you'd like to have an

opportunity to brief these issues or brief the

stipulation of settlement at this point? Mr. Mackoff?

MR. MACKOFF: No, we don't.

THE HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Landow-Esser?

MS. LANDOW-ESSER: I think it's unnecessary.

THE HEARING OFFICER: All right.

What I'd like to do is obviously thank you for

appearing here before us today and giving us an

opportunity to come out to Montgomery.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

As far as the record is concerned, if you need or if

you want a copy of the transcript, you can contact the

court reporter here or if you'd like to obtain a copy

from the Board, and at this time, I would close the

hearing in this matter PCB 97-010.

Thank you.

(Which were all the proceedings

held in the above-entitled

matter.)

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

STATE OF ILLINOIS )

) SS.

COUNTY OF C O O K )

I, GEANNA M. PIGNONE-IAQUINTA, do

hereby state that I am a court reporter doing business in

the City of Chicago, County of Cook, and State of

Illinois; that I reported by means of machine shorthand

the proceedings held in the foregoing cause, and that the

foregoing is a true and correct transcript of

my shorthand notes so taken as aforesaid.

__________________________

Geanna M. Pignone-Iaquinta

Notary Public, Cook County, IL

Illinois License No. 084-004096

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO

before me this_____day

of__________, A.D., 1997.

___________________________

Notary Public

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292