Page
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
)
RECEIVED
CLERKS
OFFICE
COUNTY
OF C 0 0 K
)
FEB
27
2009
STATE
OF
IWNOIS
ILLINOIS POLLUTION
CONTROL BO”
ControIBoar
February 17, 2009
IN
THE
MATTER OF:
WATER QUALITY STANDARDS AND
)
R08-9
EFFLUENT LIMITATIONS
FOR THE
CHICAGO AREA WATERWAY SYSTEM
AND
)
(Rulemaking -
LOWER DES PLAINS RIVER PROPOSED
)
Water)
AMENDMENTS TO
35
ILL. ADM.
CODE
301, 302, 303, and 304
TRANSCRIPT
OF PROCEEDINGS held in the
above-entitled
cause
before Hearing
Officer
Marie
Tipsord, called by the Illinois Pollution
Control
Board, pursuant
to
notice,
taken before Rebecca
Graziano, CSR, within and for the
County of Cook
and
State of Illinois, at the Thompson Center, 100
West
Randolph, Room 2-025,
Chicago,. Illinois, on the
17th
Day of February, A.D., 2009,
commencing
at
10:00
a.m.
.
Page 2
1
APPEARANCES
2
ILLINOIS POLLUTION CONTROL BOARD:
3
Ms. Marie Tipsord, Hearing
Officer
4
Ms. Alisa Liu, P.E., Environmental
Scientist
Dr.
Tanner Girard, Acting Chairman
5
Mr. Anand Rao
Mr. Thomas Johnson
6
Dr. Shundar
Lin
Ms. Andrea Moore
7
8
ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION AGENCY:
9
Ms. Stefanie Diers
Ms. Deborah Williams
10
Mr. Robert Sulski
Mr.
Scott
Twait
11
Mr. Roy Smogor
12
ENVIRONMENTAL LAW AND POLICY CENTER:
13
Ms. Jessica Dexter
14
METROPOLITAN
WATER RECLAMATION DISTRICT OF
15
GREATER CHICAGO:
Mr. Fredric Andes
16
Mr. Marcelo Garcia
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Page 3
1
MS.
TIPSORD:
Good morning.
My name
2
is
Marie Tipsord, and
I’ve been appointed
by
the
3
Board to
serve
as
hearing officer in this procedure
4
entitled
Water Quality Standards and
Effluent
5
limitations
for the Chicago
Area Waterway System and
6
Lower Des Plaines
River Proposed Amendments
to
35
7
Ill. Adm. Code
301, 302, 303, and 304. The
docket
8
number
is R08-9.
9
With me today to
my left is acting
10
chairman,
G. Tanner
Girard, the presiding Board
11
Member. To his
immediate left is Board Member
12
Andrea
Johnson -- Andrea
Moore, and
to
her left is
13
Board Member Dr.
Shundar Lin. To my far right is
14
Board Member
Thomas Johnson.
To my
immediate right
15
is
Anand Rao, and to
his right, Alisa Liu from our
16
technical staff.
In addition,
today
we have
Brian
17
Lambel,
who is our etern this semester
from Kent.
18
This
is the ninth
set
of hearings
19
to be
held in
this proceeding, and I
believe we’re
20
on days
24 and 25. The purpose of today’s
hearing
21
is to
continue hearing
testimony from the
22
participants,
other than the proponent, the Illinois
23
Environmental
Protection Agency. At
the close of
24
hearing
on December 3rd,
2009, we had finished with
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Page
5
1
preconceived notion or bias. We will
go
until
2
around 5:00 p.m.
today
with
a
lunch break, and then
3
we’ll start again tomorrow morning
at
9:00 a.m.
4
Also, I have heard from some of
5
you about
future
dates, and at this time, I plan
to
6
continue
this hearing on the record.
The
plan
was
7
to go
for March 3rd and 4th. I have rooms in the
8
building across the street and here, and
lTd
like
to
9
finish the witnesses from the District
at that time.
10
Mr.
Andes,
you
indicated before we went
on
the
11
record that those
days
might not work for the
12
District?
13
MR. ANDES: I believe that’s right,
14
but
I will
get
back
to
you later today
to
nail that
15
down.
16
MS. TIPSORD: All right.
Because my
17
intent,
fraiikly,
at
this point is if the District is
18
not
available, then I would
be
inclined
to, since we
19
have rooms for those
days,
move ahead and come back
20
to
the District when they
are
available. Because of
21
the
difficulty
of
the scheduling that I’ve already
22
seen from the IEPA and others, that would, sort of
23
-- I would, kind of, like to try
to do
that. So if
24
you
could
get back to
me later in the
day,
that
Page 6
1
would
be
very helpful.
2
MR. ANDES:
I will.
3
MS. TIPSORD:
So I can give notice
to
4
whoever else can
be available on those
days.
Thank
5
you.
6
I also received
a motion from Corn
7
Products seeking
to
withdraw their testimony of
both
8
James Huff and Alan
Gerick (phonetic). I think
9
they’re going
to
withdraw and
then re-file. I
10
didn’t, frankly, read the motion.
I just saw it and
11
I spoke briefly with Katherine Huff. Citgo also,
in
12
conversations with Jeff Ford,
would also like
to,
13
perhaps, amend their testimony with some
additional
14
information.
15
Given this
-- these, sort
of,
16
developments, and given that it has been awhile
17
since
we’ve
talked about the schedule,
as
far
as who
18
would
be
testifying next and where
we’re going, I
19
would like
to
schedule
a
pre-hearing conference for
20
-- I picked
February
27th, which is
a
week from
21
Friday. If people can’t
be available that day, we
22
can
do
it the afternoon of the 26th. But check
your
23
calendars and
get
back with me, and I will
put a
24
hearing
officer
order out on Thursday reflecting the
Page 7
1
additional hearings and the pre-hearing conference,
2
which would talk
about
where we’re going, who we’re
3
proceeding with, and
based
on an email I
got
from
4
Ms. Dexter,
too,
I also understand that the
5
environmental groups might want
to
decide what order
6
their witnesses are
presented as
well.
7
So that will
be
what we’ll talk
8
about.
We’ll talk
about
who’s going next, where
9
we’re
going, after we’re
finished with the District.
10
MS.
DEXTER:
Did
you
say,
Marie, that
11
those would
be
in the afternoon on either of those
12
dates,
or at any time?
13
MS. TIPSORD:
It could
be at
any
time
14
during the
day
on the 27th and the afternoon of the
15
26th. It
would have
to be
the afternoon of the
26th
16
because
we have
a
closed session in the morning.
17
MS. DEXTER:
All right.
Thanks.
18
MS. TIPSORD:
So I
won
Tt
be available
19
until afternoon until the 26th. And with that, Dr.
20
Girard.
21
DR. GIRARD:
Thank
you.
Good
morning.
22
On
behalf of the Board, I welcome everyone
to
23
another
set
of hearings in this rulemaking. The
24
Board is very grateful
for
the amount of
time
and
Page 8
1
effort that everyone is putting into both preparing
2
testimony and also preparing questions and
3
continuing the questions in
the
cross
examination
of
4
the
hearings. It helps
us
immensely in putting
5
together a
record, especially in these
days
of,
you
6
know, lean governmental
budgets
and lean staffing.
7
We really do need the help, so we appreciate
8
everything
you’re doing. We realize this is
a
very
9
extensive
rulemaking,
but
this,
you
know, is
a
very
.10
complicated
topic.
So
we look forward
to
the
11
testimony and questions today.
Thank
you.
12
MS. TIPSORD:
And with that, Mr.
13
Andes, I think we’re ready to
swear in
your witness.
14
(Witness sworn.)
15
MR. ANDES:
This is a
copy
of
16
Dr. Garcia’s
testimony.
17.
MS. TIPSORD: And it is Dr. Garcia?
18
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
19
MS.
TIPSORD:
Just
wanted
to
check.
20
DR. GARCIA:
Yes,
yes.
21
MS. TIPSORD: And you’re going to have
22
to
speak
up.
I can tell already.
They’re not
going
23
to be
able
to
hear
you
in the back of the room.
24
DR. GARCIA: Don’t worry about that.
Page
9
1
MS. TIPSORD: If there’s no objection,
2
we will mark the pre-filed testimony of Dr. Garcia
3
as
Exhibit 139. Seeing none, the testimony and
4
attachments are
marked
as Exhibit 193.
Thank
you.
5
And I believe the Agency had pre-filed some
6
questions.
7
MS. DIERS:
Yes.
Good morning, Dr.
8
Garcia.
My name is Stephanie Diers,
and
ITil
be
9
asking questions on behalf of Illinois EPA, and I’ll
10
begin with our pre-filed question one. How might
11
density occurrence affect water quality and
12
transport little oxygen, sediment laden water,
and
13
contaminants for long distance? And I think this
14
refers
to
on Page
3
of your pre-filed testimony.
15
DR. GARCIA:
Right.
Okay.
Let me
16
first explain
what
is a density current. A density
17
flow is
a
name given
to a
flow that happens when
you
18
have differences in density between two fluids.
So
19
the best and
simplest way
to
imagine this,
imagine
a
20
lake, and imagine that
you go
through the winter,
21
and all of
a
sudden spring comes along, and there’s
22
no
-- and
all
the
water
-- all the runoff finds
its
23
way into the river, and eventually the water in the
24
river flows into the lake.
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Page
13
1
current once it reaches the basin in the south
2
branch.
3
We have modeled that. We have
a
4
paper that is going
to be
presented
at a
conference
5
in May
in Kansas
City. We will
be
happy
to
share
6
copies with
you
with my students,
and
what we
see is
7
that, indeed --
8
MR. ANDES: Actually, should we
-- do
9
you
want
to use
the chart?
10
DR. GARCIA:
Yeah,
sure.
11
MR. ANDES:
Okay.
Well, I think
you
12
have
one here.
I
can pass them
out.
13
DR. GARCIA:
Yeah.
We -- I had made
a
14
poster,
which
was -- the idea was
to be
able
to
show
15
it
to you, but
last night I was trying
to
catch
a
16
train and the poster --
17
MR.
ANDES:
Well, let me take those.
18
DR. GARCIA:
Sure.
19
MR. ANDES:
We have two reports and
a
20
chart
that we can introduce
that are relevant to
21
this issue.
22
DR. GARCIA:
This is the one
you --
23
MR. ANDES:
That’s the one
you
want
to
24
use
right now?
Page 14
1
DR. GARCIA: The density current one.
2
MR. ANDES:
Okay.
Just
a
moment.
3
DR. GARCIA: Essentially,
what we have
4
done with the model,
to
answer
your question, is
to
5
try to
explore different
scenarios
that have the
6
potential to
generate density current in the south
7
branch of the Chicago River.
8
MR.
ANDES:
Let
me
stop you
there.
9
We’ll
introduce the reports, and then we can
go
on.
10
We
have
a
report entitled Upstream Intrusion Effect
11
of CSO Events in Bubbly Creek,
Illinois.
12
MS. TIPSORD: If there’s no objection,
13
we’ll mark this report, Upstream Intrusion Effect of
14
CSO Events
in Bubbly Creek, Illinois,
as
15
Exhibit 194. Seeing none, it’s Exhibit 194.
16
MS.
DIERS:
Can I ask just a
quick
17
clarifying
question on this? IS this the paper
that
18
you’re
referring
to
that you’ll present in Kansas
19
City?
20
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
21
MS. DIERS:
Okay.
Thank you.
22
MR. ANDES:
And then we have
a chart
23
with
the title Upstream Intrusion Induced
by
CSO
24
Events.
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Page 18
1
one
step
further -- and
this
is
getting
to
the
2
question,
which is that -- one of the questions --
3
depending
on how much water is coming down the south
4
branch
-- and there is
a
table here. If
you
go
to
5
table
two, okay, which is
about
the fourth page in
6
the
paper, these are the
cases
that
we have
tested.
7
So
we say
the flow
coming
down the main channel of
8
the
south branch, it can range, let’s
say,
anywhere
9
from not moving
at
all,
but
let’s just put a
low
10
flow,
a
kilometer per second -- that’s about
11
1,000 liters.
That’s
about
250 gallons per
12
second
-- all the way
to
30 kilometers per second,
13
and we
see
the amount
of water, with sediments,
14
coming out
of Bubbly Creek.
15
And then what
we
see
is that
when
16
the water
gets
to
the junction, it actually takes
17
off as a
density current, and it tries
to
actually
18
go
upstream into the south branch. So it’s almost
19
like the
river has lost its memory. You know, it
20
remembers
that 100 years
ago
it
used to
flow that
21
way, and the water of the river is
still
sloped in
22
that
way.
The water
surface may slow the other way
23
depending on what we
do to
the river.
24
So what it does is it tries to
go
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Page
20
1
you
the idea of how far this phenomenon can go.
2
So if
you
have
a
water
intake
3
there,
it’s not very
good
for New
Orleans
because
4
you’re going
to
be pumping in salty
water. In our
5
case,
we
want
to
understand what is the role played
6
in this
phenomenon. Because wherever it
goes,
it’s
7
going
to
deposit materials there, and
it’s also
8
going
to
bring in the
BOD
that was
in there, in the
9
CSO, not just
the sediments.
10
So
anybody who -- or anything that
11
is
transported in low oxygen water is
going
to
come
12
with it as part
of the flow itself. So it’s going
13
to
take it
to
different places. As you go to the
14
other side -- and
I know this is long.
15
MS. DIERS:
That’s fine.
16
DR.
GARCIA:
But upstream
is trying
to
17
intrude, but it’s
facing
the
flow coming down the
18
south
branch,
but
then it’s also going
to
try to
go
19
with the flow,
and what
we find out
is that it mixes
20
up
more
with the flow that is going down the south
21
branch.
22
So what we have
been trying
to do
23
is model
-- in particular we have concentrated
a
lot
24
on
Bubbly Creek
because
early on,
as
part of
a
phase
Page
21
1
one study,
between Grand
Avenue,
Lake Michigan
and
2
Cicero
Avenue, we
said,
“Okay.
Let’s
do a
3—D model
3
of
all these,”
and then
it became quite
apparent
4
that the
role played
by
Bubbly
Creek was not
only
5
unique,
but it has
a
large impact
on the
system
6
depending
on
flow
conditions.
7
So
that’s what
steps
have
been
8
taken
as to try
to
model this type
of
phenomenon.
9
And
I
have
to
say
that -- I’m
not sure
if we
have it
10
in the testimony,
but also
the city,
the
water
11
department
for the
city, they’re
known as two
12
outlookers,
which
are sensors
that basically
send
13
acoustic
waves
and they
measure how
much water is
14
moving
on the south
branch.
So
we can
put one
in
15
correlation
with
a
geological
survey.
There is
one
16
upstream
of the junction
between Bubbly
Creek
and
17
the south
branch and
there is
one downstream.
18
And
what
we’re trying
to
see
if
we
19
can catch
these events
in the acts,
basically,
not
20
just
model
them.
You
know,
modeling is
just
a tool.
21
But
to see actually,
you
know, when they
happen,
how
22
often they
happen,
you
know, what
is the
frequently,
23
you
know, how
much
water
you’re
actually
getting
24
into it.
Page
22
1
MS. DIERS:
When
did you
start
doing
2
that?
3
DR.
GARCIA:
This
we
started
about
a
4
year
and
a
half ago,
yes.
5
MS. DIERS:
And
is it currently
6
ongoing?
7
DR.
GARCIA:
We are
going
full
force,
8
yes.
9
MS.
DIERS:
And
I think
you
said
that
10
you have
three
scenarios
that
you
looked
at.
How
11
did you
decide
the
scenarios?
12
DR.
GARCIA:
Basically
we decided
it
13
was based
on what
the
range
of
flows
is
from
the
14
Racine
Avenue
pumping
station,
and also
the
range
of
15
flows
that
we know
can come
down
the
south
branch.
16
MS. DIERS:
And
on
Exhibit
194,
17
Figure
5,
you
have
CSO particle
concentration
equals
18
1,000
milligrams
per
liter.
Is that
measured
or
19
assumed?
20
DR. GARCIA:
That’s
--
it’s
an assumed
21
value,
but
based
on
records
taken by
the
history.
22
You’re
talking
--
can you
clarify
which
one
is
the
23
one
you’re
looking
at?
24
MS.
DIERS:
I
have a
report.
It’s
Page
23
1
Exhibit 194.
2
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
3
MS. DIERS:
And I’m looking
at
4
Figure 5. I’m not
sure what
page.
5
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
This is --
6
MS. DIERS:
I thinks it’s the sixth
7
page.
8
DR.
GARCIA:
This is an assumed
value
9
for the purpose of the
modeling exercise. It
10
doesn’t mean -- therefore,
it doesn’t mean that all
11
the CSO5
that
come
out
of
a
scene are going
to come
12
out
are going
to
have
35 millimeters per second
and
13
are
going
to
have
a
concentration of
1,000. But
14
that’s
a
value that we
estimated
to be a reasonable
15
value for the purpose of modeling.
16
MS.
DIERS:
And I know
you mentioned
17
the Mississippi River.
So have
you
measured
density
18
current in other places?
Outside of the Chicago
19
River area, have
you measured in the Mississippi
20
River?
21
DR. GARCIA:
No.
22
MS. DIERS:
Have
you
measured
anywhere
23
else?
24
DR. GARCIA:
I, myself, cannot
Page 24
1
measure,
but
I did my PSE on density currents a long
2
time
ago
at the University of Minnesota. And the
3
motivation
for
that was actually a
problem in Lake
4
Superior,
and it had
to do
with mining and disposal
5
of
mine tailings. And that’s according
to
this
6
topic, because
the tailings were going into Lake
7
Superior. This was near Duluth, and
people
thought,
8
“Well,
we’ll dump it into the lake, and this
goes
9
and
takes the tailings all the way
to
the
deep
end
10
of
Lake Superior.”
11
And
at
the
time, I calculated
that
12
they
could travel for
80
kilometers, these flows.
13
But
there was -- there was an issue, and
the
issue
14
was
that depending on the time of the year, Lake
15
Superior would stratify, and that would mean that
16
the density of the water column,
particularly in
the
17
summer, it
wouldn’t
be
the same.
So
what these
18
flows were doing, they were coming down, and when
19
they found
a
layerof water that
had the same
20
density,
they made an intrusion there.
21
But,
see,
the lake was
22
circulating. It was taking the water all
the way
to
23
the
water intake
of
Superior, Wisconsin, and the
24
People in superior, Wisconsin, they didn’t like
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Page 26
1
another professor, Jack Lucat
(phonetic), who is
a
2
geotechnical engineer,
to
try
to figure out
a
way
to
3
move the pipes that
put
the tailings into the
lake
4
so
that, first of all, the particles circulate,
they
5
are
not on
the surface,
because
it’s
a
lake
used for
6
recreational purposes, and
then the particles don’t
7
go
sideways.
8
MS. DIERS:
And
do you
know what the
9
impact of the density
currents are on aquatic life?
10
DR. GARCIA:
The impact -- we don’t
11
know much
about
what the impact is,
but
I can
12
imagine
a
situation
in which
you
could have these
13
density flows reaching
out to
places
on a hot summer
14
day
where fish
might seek refuge,
you
know, what
15
people call thermal refuge,
you know. You go there
16
because
it’s cold, the water is colder than the
17
surface of anywhere else. nd since these flows
are
18
always trying
to
reach
a
point
of lowest elevation,
19
they might reach that, and that might not
be good
20
for the fish.
21
MS. DIERS:
But
you don’t know for
22
sure, correct?
23
DR.
GARCIA:
I don’t know for sure,
24
but
I have seen this
happen
when
somebody makes
a
Page
27
1
mistake at a nuclear power plant, and all of
a
2
sudden
they release
very cold water into
a
lake
that
3
is using for cooling
purposes,
you get a
density
4
flow, and it
goes
all the way under
the water and
5
you get
fish kill.
So
the answer is I
don’t know
6
for sure, but
you
are going
to get
water of poor
7
quality
to a
place
where it might affect it.
8
MR. ANDES:
If I can
follow
up
on that
9
for a
moment,
I think it might help
to
-- this
is
10
Exhibit 1 to
Dr.
Garcia’s testimony. I
just thought
11
this map might
be
helpful
for people
to
visualize in
12
addition
to
the color maps,
just to
make sure
people
13
have that.
14
So Doctor, I
see
-- is
your point,
15
looking
at
the map
of Bubbly Creek, that the
density
16
current leads
to
potential impacts
during wet
17
weather events
up
in the south fork?
18
DR.
GARCIA:
No -- yeah.
Part of my
19
conclusion is that, that
you
have the
potential
to
20
have density flows and that they are going
to
21
impact --
22
MR. ANDES:
Beyond
Bubbly Creek?
23
DR. GARCIA:
They are going
to impact
24
Bubbly Creek,
and they could impact beyond Bubbly
Page 28
1
Creek, too,
depending on the impact in the
south
2
branch.
3
So, for
instance, if
you
have no
4
flow down the south
branch -- let’s assume that we
5
call that
the freshwater flow, which comes
down
the
6
south
branch -- the chances of having an
intrusion
7
going upstream are going to be
larger, of course,
8
and the extension of it
is going
to be
larger. But
9
also, you
could have
a
flow going downstream
on the
10
south
branch.
11
Now, one
thing I want
to
clarify
12
is that it
doesn’t mean that all the flows
emanating
13
from the scene are going to
lead -- all the CSOs are
14
going to
lead
to
density currents, okay? But the
15
potential is there, and that’s why
we are doing the
16
modeling, that’s
why we are studying, and that’s why
17
we’re
trying
to
measure
this.
18
MS. DIERS: Do you
know if it’ll
19
•affect any other segments
besides tte south branch?
20
DR. GARCIA:
Well, nobody’s
coming
out
21
of here. I think what is coming out
of here has the
22
potential to affect
the south branch itself.
Now,
23
one
question that someone may ask is whether
-- how
24
far down the south branch is
this going
to go,
and I
Page 29
1
imagine that it could
go
pretty far.
2
However, having said that, when
3
these
flows happen,
at the interface, what we call
4
the ambient water and the water that makes
it flow,
5
this is constantly mixing
too. So
the flow keeps
6
diluting as it travels. So the further away
you go
7
from the source of
the flow or where the flow plans
8
and it went underneath, the turning basin
-- after
9
the turning basin, the impact is going
to
diminish
10
with distance.
11
One thing I want
to clarify is
12
that -- which I mentioned before, is that if
you
13
look at
this exhibit, this
figure,
you see
all these
14
leaps across. So what that means is if
you
have
a
15
flow going up
the
south branch, okay, the minute it
16
finds an open door there on this
leap, it’s going
to
17
try
to go
in there, and it’s probably going
to
it
18
there, and it’s going
to
deposit whatever the hazard
19
is. Then the river has no other mechanism
to
20
actually
get
this
out
of there, whatever it is that
21
the density
flow
put on the bottom of those leaps,
22
and that obviously brings other questions probably
23
into your mind
too.
24
MS. DIERS:
I’m going to
go
back
to
Page 30
1
our pre-f lied question three.
2
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
3
MS. DIERS:
And on Page
3
of your
4
pre-filed testimony,
you’re talking
about -- you say
5
your recommendations
have been implemented. Are
you
6
referring
to
MWRDGC
accepting those recommendations?
7
DR. GARCIA:
You mean accepting,
8
right?
9
MS. DIERS:
Mm-hmm.
10
DR.
GARCIA:
Because the question
says
11
accepting. But which one is
at
-- I need some
12
clarification on
that.
13
MS. DIERS:
I’m sorry.
On Page
3 of
14
your pre-filed testimony,
“Our recommendations have
15
been implemented.” And question -- the
pre-filed
16
question three is asking who -- what
recommendations
17
are you
referring
to, and who did
you
make them
to?
18
MR. ANDES:
So
you’re referring --
19
DR. GARCIA:
Oh, yeah.
20
MR.
ANDES:
So you’re referring to
21
recommendations
about
the SEPA stations.
22
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
23
MS.
DIERS:
I think -- yeah.
I think
24
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Page
35
1
specifically with
respect
to
number six, when
did
2
your research begin with
the density currents you
3
were looking
at
in the system?
4
DR. GARCIA:
In the system? A long
5
time ago. You mean the Chicago River System?
6
MS. DIERS:
Mm-hmm.
7
DR. GARCIA:
Almost ten years
ago,
8
nine years ago.
9
MS.
DIERS:
Okay.
And then with
10
respect to
Bubbly
Creek?
11
DR. GARCIA:
Bubbly Creek
a
year and
a
12
half ago, as
I
stated before.
13
MS. DIERS: And when will your
study
14
be
completed?
15
DR. GARCIA:
I think in
about a year.
16
MS. TIPSORD: For clarification, the
17
study
on
Bubbly
Creek.
18
DR. GARCIA:
On Bubbly Creek,
yes.
19
This I have
to
-- I think it’s in the testimony.
20
MR. ANDES:
This is the
study to
21
develop the 3-D model. Am I correct?
22
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
We -- this -- what
23
we’re doing now is part of
a
larger project with
the
24
idea of being able
to
model the Chicago waterways
Page
36
1
and develop a 3-D model of the waterways, and
what
2
we’re
doing
right now is what we call phase one,
and
3
it entails the
Chicago River from Grand Avenue in
4
the north branch
all the way
to
the dock
by
the lake
5
in the main stem, and then
all the way down the
6
south branch
to
Cicero Avenue
just upstream of
7
Stickney.
8
And the
reason why we broke this
9
down in phases is
because
originally,
I wanted
to do
10
the whole 80 miles in one shot, and something
called
11
me
to
my senses, and
I said, “Well, isn’t that
a
12
little bit
too
much?” And
as it turns out, yes. If
13
you
try
to do everything
at
once, it’s
a
lot.
14
So what we
are doing now -- this
15
is phase one, like I explained -- and inside
phase
16
one is Bubbly Creek.
This project, phase one, is
a
17
36-month project, and I think
that we started
to
18
work on it somewhere in June of 2007. We finally
19
got
everything going in 2007.
20
MS. DIERS:
Okay.
And phase
one is
21
not completed?
22
DR. GARCIA:
Phase one is the one
that
23
we are working on, and
you
can
say
we
are halfway --
24
a
little
bit more than halfway.
Page 37
1
MS. DIERS:
Okay.
And what would
2
phase
two
be?
3
DR. GARCIA:
Phase
two is
going to
4
build the north branch. It’s going
to
include --
5
excuse me
a
second,
because
I don’t want
to --
6
MR. ANDES:
I believe we’re referring
7
to a
progress report
that was attached
to
the
8
testimony. That would
be
attachment three
to
the
9
testimony.
10
DR. GARCIA: No. Actually, this is --
11
MR. ANDES:
That’s
a
progress
report
12
on phase one.
13
DR. GARCIA:
Just a second.
14
MR. ANDES:
Let me clarify.
The
15
document
that Dr. Garcia
is referring to is not
16
attachment three. The progress report is
a separate
17
document, which is the research proposal, and we
can
18
provide
copies.
So this would be a new exhibit.
19
It’s
titled Research Proposal, the Chicago
Waterway
20
System, Environmental Modeling, Phase One, Chicago
21
River Main Stem, South Branch,
South
Fork
(Bubbly
22
Creek) and Sanitary and Ship Canal.
23
MS. TIPSORD: If there’s no objection,
24
we
will mark this research
proposal as Exhibit
Page
38
1
No. 196. Seeing none, it’s
Exhibit 196.
2
DR. GARCIA: So
this -- this proposal,
3
just
for clarification,
because
I think it’s
a
lot
4
easier to
read the document, this was the original
5
proposal we prepared for the District
to
develop
6
this 3-D
model
of the waterways,
okay? The proposal
7
was
written in mid-2006,
but because
of different
8
circumstances,
things didn’t start until mid-2007.
9
If you
go to
-- this
explains
what
10
we are doing and what we
were doing. It talks
about
11
density
currents, what we knew
about
density
12
currents
at
the time, which was the main stem
of
the
13
Chicago
River, the motivation for doing the 3-D
14
modeling. And then if you
go
to Page 12 of the
15
proposal,
it tells
you
what are the different phases
16
of
this project.
So you
have the phase one, which
17
is the one that we are on right now, and it says
18
this
proposal is one I was trying
to
explain, that
19
goes
from the main stem of the Chicago
River,
and
20
then the
north
branch;
and then the south branch of
21
the
Chicago River, the Sanitary and Ship Canal, and
22
the
south fork of the south branch of the Chicago
23
River -- that
would
be
Bubbly Creek -- and if
you
24
can see
there in parenthesis, we said Bubbly Creek
Page 39
1
will be initially
modeled with -- it’s
a
model
2
that -- a
2-D model.
3
We decided that there
was no point
4
in
trying
to
throw the kitchen sink
initially
at --
5
in terms of modeling Bubbly
Creek,
because
we knew
6
very little about
it.
So
we said why don’t we --
7
you
know, people
got
one model of it,
that was
a
8
Marquette University model
of it. We said, “Why
9
don’t
we
go 2-D
and try
to see
what happens on
a
10
plane
before we try
to see
what happens on the
11
column,” which we have already
done,
but
we started
12
with a 2-D
model. That’s another paper that will
be
13
presenting in Kansas that we can
also enter.
14
But let’s continue with this right
15
now. So you
can
see
here, the
proposal called for
16
that 36-month study, and
that’s what we have done,
a
17
little bit
more than halfway into it, and then we
18
have a
phase two, which is 24 months,
and then we
19
have a phase
three.
20
One thing that is
important
to
21
mention is that together,
with this proposal, they
22
use a
logical
survey, and also submitted
a
proposal
23
to
do
synoptic measurements, that is
measurements
of
24
flow and water quality at
different locations,
Page 40
1
including the symmetry of the water elevation in the
2
river
so
that we can
put
that into the mathematical
3
model
to
run it, basically,
to do
the model
4
predictions. And those are still ongoing, and
5
they’re going to -- they’re going to
continue.
6
So
that, in
a
way -- if we
go back
7
to
your question, when did the research begin, it
8
began mid-2007. Who is involved in this
research?
9
Well,
the University of Illinois, our group, and
10
also
the geological survey is involved with
a
few
11
measurements, along with the District
as
well.
12
They’re monitoring
at
the research branch. They
are
13
also working with
us
on the mission. We need
to
run
14
them
all.
15
MS. DIERS:
After the 3-D model
16
results become available,
how
will these results
be
17
used to
determine the aquatic life potential for
the
18
south fork, south branch of the Chicago River?
19
DR. GARCIA: What is
that question?
20
MS. DIERS:
It’s
a
followup
based on
21
what we’ve been talking about.
22
DR. GARCIA:
Oh, okay.
23
MR. ANDES:
Can
you
repeat the
24
question?
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Page 42
1
happens when
you don’t -- just normal operations of
2
the
river, what
goes on in the river, that’s what
3
makes Bubbly Creek kind
of unique,
because
it’s in
4
two completely different
stages. You
know, one
were
5
there’s practically no flow, and one were there’s
6
flow.
7
So the
answer
to -- your question
8
is how are we going
to use a
model. I think the
9
model
is
going
to
help people that want
to
figure
10
out
or want
to assess water quality in the Chicago
11
waterways determine -- how
do you say -- if not with
12
more precision, in
a
more
educated
fashion, I would
13
say,
what are the true
conditions in the river.
14
MS. DIERS: I’ll
go to
pre-filed
15
question eight. What
other options were there
16
besides the environmental fluid
dynamics code? I
17
guess
I should also ask first what is
the
18
environmental fluid
dynamics code?
19
DR. GARCIA:
Yeah.
The environmental
20
dynamics code -- yeah. We have
a
-- if
you
want,
we
21
can give
you
the --
22
MR. ANDES:
We have
an exhibit, which
23
is
titled
Environmental Fluid Dynamics
Code,
EFDC.
24
MS. TIPSORD:
If there’s no objection,
Page
43
1
we
will mark
Environmental Fluid Dynamics
Code,
2
EFDC, as
Exhibit 197.
Seeing none, it’s
3
Exhibit 197.
4
DR.
GARCIA: The environmental fluid
5
dynamics
code, as
the name indicates,
is
a
6
three-dimensional
code
that can
be used to model
7
dynamic sediment
transport, and it also has
8
nitrification components,
for example, and it was
9
available
by
Dr. Joe Hambrick (phonetic)
when he was
10
a
professor at the Virginia Institute of Marine
11
Science in the early
‘90s, and it was there
12
originally for rivers going into
estuaries. But
13
it’s a
model that
has received wide application --
14
MR. ANDES:
If
I can
stop you
there,
15
Marcelo,
we have
another exhibit, which is
a list of
16
known EFDC
applications as of January 2004.
17
MS. TIPSORD:
If there’s no objection,
18
we
will mark
the list of known EFDC
applications
as
19
Exhibit 198. Seeing
none, it’s Exhibit 198:
20
MR. SUISKI:
Two from
200.
21
DR.
GARCIA:
So what
you
can
see from
22
this second -- if we were
in class I would
say a
23
handout -- exhibit, is
because
it’s
been widely
used
24
in places like
the Everglades, and it’s
a code that
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Page 45
1
I
also had the opportunity
to
have
2
been
exposed
to
this
code as part of a five-year
3
review panel, and this was
a case
between General
4
Electric and U.S. EPA, and I was part of the review
5
planning
of
the modeling, and one of the models that
6
they use
is
a
river model,
and
a
fish dynamics
7
model, and
a
risk of human exposure
to
model, and
8
the model that they had
used at
the time was the
9
EFDC.
And in that
particular
case,
the model
10
struggled a
little
bit, because it was a natural
11
river, very different from what they have in this
12
particular case.
13
But that’s how
you
begin
to
14
intimate
with
the EFDC. And
so
when the time came
15
to
choose
a
tool, I thought the learning
curve, if
16
we
go
with this model, is going
to be a
lot shorter
17
than
if we try
to start
to
work with another model,
18
commercial or public, or if we try
to develop it on
19
our
own.
-
20
MS. DIERS: Okay.
Pre-filed question
21
number nine, which I think we might have talked
22
about, but
Ill
go
ahead and ask it, what conditions
23
might
cause
the south branch
of the Chicago River
to
24
act as a barrier
to
the flow coming
out
of
the south
Page
46
1
fork
of the
south branch
of
the
Chicago River?
2
DR.
GARCIA:
Right.
Yes.
What
I --
3
what
I tried
to
-- when I
referred to
that
on the
4
testimony,
the way
to
visualize
this is that
5
depending
on
what the
water
levels
are in
the south
6
branch
of
the Chicago
River,
you
know that
the
7
models of
the waterways
is that when
there
is
a
8
storm on
the
way,
at
Rockport
they open
up the
9
gates,
and
they
say,
“Okay.
We need
to
lower the
10
water
surface elevation
in the waterways
in
11
anticipation
of the rain
that we
are going
to
get.”
12
So
the
idea
is that
you
remain
some storage
capacity
13
by
doing that.
14
Now,
there
are other instances
in
15
which
you do that,
but
still
it starts to
rain,
the
16
water level
in the river
starts to go
up. So
17
depending
on
what the
water elevation
is
compared to
18
the water
coming out
of Bubbly
Creek, you
are going
19
to
have
what
we call
a
backwater
effect.
20
Essentially,
the
south branch
is going
to
back
up
21
the water coming
out
of Bubbly
Creek.
22
Now, that
is
going
to depend on
23
how
much Racine
Avenue is pumping,
and
how
much is
24
coming out of
the storm outfalls,
the ones
that
you
Page
47
1
can
see
in Exhibit 1 right here.
So
all
of those
2
are going to contribute water, particularly during
a
3
storm
event, and
depending on what the south branch
4
is
doing in terms
of water surface elevation, this
5
is
going
to
backup, more
or less, water into Bubbly
6
Creek, and that’s what I meant
by
that.
7
It’s
a
dynamic situation, and
the
8
way this works
-- because Bubbly Creek has an
9
inoperative flow -- all it
does
is
get all the
10
kinetic energy, or the water coming
out
of
the
11
pumps, transforms
that kinetic energy
to
potential
12
energy, essentially, and raises the
water level,
13
into
then Racine,
you
know, the pumping station,
14
until the water starts
to
flow
towards the south
15
branch. Now, if the water in the south branch
is
16
too
high, well, it’s
going to flow less.
17
And the effect
of that, if I could
18
elaborate more, is that
at
times, you’re going
to
19
have Bubbly Creek moving with
a certain regime of
20
flow velocity. The flow discharge is going
to
be
21
the same,
but depending on what the south branch
is
22
doing, the water is
going to move faster, more
23
slowly, in Bubbly Creek, and it could work.
24
Depending on the
effects, sometimes it could work
as
Page 48
1
a
settling tank, and
sometimes it could actually
2
transport
-- you
could
be swift enough
to
resuspend,
3
and move whatever came in,
plus
whatever
it can pick
4
up
from the bottom of the creek.
5
So what the south branch
does,
6
it’s
important
to the dynamics of the CSOs in Bubbly
7
Creek. And therefore, that’s
the
need
to have a 3-D
8
model, because the only thing
you
can
do
is
-- I can
9
come
here and
try to explain this,
but
the only way
10
you
can
do
this
is through direct observation, doing
11
as
many measurements
as you
can.
12
MR. ANDES:
If I can follow
up
on
13
that.
So
if
you
have these wet
weather events where
14
the flow may
be
coming
out
of Bubbly Creek and
going
15
into the south branch, if
one, then, were
to add
16
flow augmentation, supplemental aeration
to address
17
issues, what effect could that have, in. terms
of
18
changing the phenomenon?
What impacts would that
19
have outside of Bubbly Creek?
20
DR. GARCIA:
You’re asking me now?
21
MR. ANDES:
Yes,
yes.
22
DR. GARCIA:
Well,
you know, there is
23
consideration
of,
as
Fred is saying, increasing
the
24
amount of flow,
particularly in dry weather
Page
49
1
conditions, so that the water moves, injecting
air
2
and
so
forth. We
have more than that
as
well with
3
our 2-D model, and what
we have found is we need
to
4
know more about the
sediments along the bottom of
5
Bubbly Creek.
6
And the reason why we need
to know
7
more is
because, as you know, there is
a
legacy
8
there of material that was
-- that found its way
9
into Bubbly Creek for many, many years from
the
10
stockyards and the packing -- the meatpacking
11
houses, and there is
always buildup, and then on
top
12
of that buildup there is
a contemporary -- and I
13
call it contemporary
for lack of.a better word --
14
the contemporary sediments
have found their way
15
there
from the
outfalls and the water coming
out of
16
the pumping station.
17
MR. ANDES:
Should we use your report
18
on
that issue?
19
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
Yeah, we can
use
20
that.
21
MR.
ANDES:
We have an exhibit on
this
22
issue. It’s titled Two
Dimensional BOD and D.O.
23
Water Quality Model for Engineering
Applications,
24
the
Case
of Bubbly
Creek in Chicago, Illinois.
Page
50
1
MS. TIPSORD: If there’s no objection,
2
I
will mark the report
as
described
as
Exhibit 199.
3
Seeing none, it’s Exhibit 199. There are extra
4
copies of these last four exhibits,
too,
that are
5
still up
here on
the front table if somebody needs
6
one.
7
DR. GARCIA: So if
you
-- this is also
8
another word
with
my graduate students -- here what
9
we tried to do
was model
the
water quality in
Bubbly
10
Creek,
and
to
try
to
understand what was going on.
11
And
the main -- the main thing coming
out
of it, if
12
you
look at
figure
-- don’t look at the equations,
13
because
you’re not going
to
like the equations. But
14
if
you
look at Figure 4, there we
have
the symmetry
15
of
Bubbly Creek, and then we look
at
the flow
16
velocity field in different colors.
17
So what we
were
trying
to do here
18
is figure out
how fast
does
the water move in Bubbly
19
Creek when the Racine Avenue pumping station is
20
discharging
water
at a certain
rate.
So
if
you look
21
at
this figure, it corresponds
to a
rate of
about
22
69
cubic meters per second. And then what we try
to
23
do
is, besides
modeling
the
flow velocity,
you can
24
see
that near the pumping station the flow moves
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Page 54
1
But also, if
you’re trying to
do
2
any type
of
-- or you’re considering any
type of
3
remediation
alternative
to
try
to
keep dissolved
4
oxygen levels
at the certain value, then
you
have
to
5
take that into account,
the possibility that, “Okay.
6
We could recirculate the water, which
is one of the
7
things
that we
can look
at.
Besides pumping
water
8
from the south branch,
besides adding oxygen
to
that
9
water, we also have
to
look
at
what
if we
just
10
recirculate and we increase, we pump
in air.” Well,
11
this seems to
work
on the surface,
but
we still
have
12
this question of all the
solids, the sediments in
13
the water. So there’s that.
14
MR. ANDES:
So to follow
up, does
that
15
mean that if
you
apply these methods, the
aeration,
16
recirculation, but
you
don’t
do
it correctly,
you
17
could
actually
worsen
the problem?
18
DR. GARCIA:
That would
be
correct,
19
yes.
20
MR. ANDES:
And you
would
need to
do
21
these additional 3-D modeling and further
studies in
22
order to determine what
to do
and what levels
you
23
could
get to.
Am I
correct?
24
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
Besides the 3-D
Page 55
1
modeling, what we are in the process of doing now is
2
basically turning Bubbly Creek into
a
lab, an
3
experimental lab, in the sense that we are trying
to
4
add
more
sensors to the ones that the District
5
already
has, the water quality sensors that we have.
6
We are going
to
have flow sensors
as
well,
but
also
7
we just build
a
gizmo, which is
just
half a pipe --
8
and
I saw it yesterday. It’s not done
yet, but
we
9
follow the experience of the Illinois
state
water
10
survey with Tom Butts. He did
a
lot of measurements
11
of sediment oxygen in demand on the waterways of
12
Illinois. This is
a
report that people can download
13
from the web.
14
But basically, they
use
what is
15
called
a
ventichamber that
you
lower it, you put it
16
on the bottom of a
stream
or lake,
and then
you run
17
water
through
it, and
you do a test,
and
you
can
18
figure
out
how the sediment oxygen demand changes.
19
We can modify that, and
now we
are
building -- in
20
our shop, in the department, we are building
a
new
21
flow with the idea that was
used
before of
this
22
ventichamber, but it’s a little
bit optimized from
a
23
highly dynamic point of view.
24
So we are going
to
lower
it in
the
Page
56
1
water of Bubbly Creek in different locations,
2
because
there is
a
lot of spacial variability on the
3
quality of the sediments, we think, and then we are
4
going to do a test where we are going
to
run with
a
5
pump from
a pontoon.
We
are going to
recirculate --
6
and this is in collaboration with
a
geological
7
survey with the District -- we are going
to
8
recirculate the water, and
we are going to get water
9
that is in sediment oxygen demand
at
different
10
locations in Bubbly Creek for different flow
11
conditions.
12
So
you
may
say,
“Well, that’s
13
fine. What is going to come
out
of it?” Well, what
14
is going
to
come
out
of it is going
to
allow
us
to
15
obtain, experimentally, laws that is basically in
16
equation,
that then we
are going to be able to
put
17
irto our l-D model, like the Marquette Model, or
18
you’re going
to
be able
to put
this in
a
3-D model
19
that gives
you
all the -- what
could be
potentially
20
the resuspension
at
different locations, and what is
21
going to
be
the sediment oxygen demand as
a
function
22
of flow velocity
at
different locations in Bubbly
23
Creek.
24
MS. TIPSORD: Dr.
Garcia,
you referred
Page 57
1
to a
report
that could
be
download from the
web.
2
Could you
please tell
us
the website where
that’s
3
available?
4
DR. GARCIA:
Yes.
I can give you
a
5
copy
of the report, but
I only have one
copy.
6
MS. TIPSORD:
If it’s --
7
DR. GARCIA:
If you do -- yes.
8
MS.
TIPSORD: If it’s available on the
9
web, I
think if
you
could
just
give us a
citation of
10
what --
11
DR. GARCIA:
It’s the Illinois State
12
Water Survey.
13
MR. ANDES:
We can
provide
a
link
14
later.
15
MS. TIPSORD:
Okay.
That would be
16
great.
17
DR. GARCIA: I can’t tell you
what it
18
is
now,
because
all the surveys
have
just
been
19
transferred to
the University.
20
MS. TIPSORD: Yes.
That’s all right.
21
If
we can
get
it later that’s
fine.
22
DR. GARCIA: But if you do
Illinois
23
State
Water Survey and
you
type
Butts, B-u-t-t-s,
24
Thomas Butts
was
the
author of the report.
Page
58
1
MS.
TIPSORD:
Thank
you.
2
DR.
GARCIA:
And
this
is
ISWS,
3
Illinois
State
Water Survey
dash
74-R --
like
in
4
Robert
-- I
-- like
in Irwin
--
no pun
intended
--
5
dash 76.
So
ISWS-74-R176.
And
there
are
other
6
reports
of
interest
by
this
same person,
7
coworkers
--
8
MS.
TIPSORD:
Thank
you.
9
DR.
GARCIA:
--
on
the
subject.
10
MS. flIERS:
With
respect
to
11
Exhibit
199
-- and
I’m
going
to
ask
a question
about
12
Figure
4 in
your
report.
13
DR. GARCIA:
199
is -- did
--
14
MS.
TIPSORD:
The
two
dimensional
BOD.
15
MS.
DIERS:
The
two
dimensional
BOD.
16
DR.
GARCIA:
Yes.
17
MS.
flIERS:
The
numbers
that
you
have
18
in
your
Figure
4,
are
they
measured
or
modeled?
19
DR.
GARCIA:
Figure
4,
these
are
20
modeled.
But
we
have
to
put
it under
the
condition
21
at the
Racine
Avenue
pumping
station.
22
MS.
flIERS:
So based
on
this
modeling,
23
is
it -- are
you
assuming
fl.O.
won’t
go
below
8.1?
24
DR.
GARCIA:
Well,
what
this
shows is
n
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p
Page 60
1
in
this
case.
2
While if
you go to
the other
3
monitoring station, the
one on 36th Street, which
is
4
a
lower
set
of curves than
the red one, then
you see
5
that the oxygen
goes
down,
and it has a hard time
6
coming back and making it
up
above two milligrams
7
per liter, even after
72 hours. So after --
8
72 hours after this
CSO
event
happened, according
to
9
our model and according
to
the measurements
taken
by
10
the District,
you
can
see
that it takes awhile
to go
11
back.
12
So what this is telling
us is that
13
even though Bubbly
Creek is relatively short
14
compared
to
the rest of the waterways,
it doesn’t
15
behave the same. You know, in its first half,
if
16
you
want
to
call it, in
the first portion that it
17
does -- as you get
closer
to
the south
branch.
18
Therefore,
we go back
to
what we said before,
the
19
dynamics of what happens
both aerodynamically and
20
intensive water quality in the creek is
influenced
21
by
what the south
branch is doing.
22
MS. DIERS: I have nothing
further.
23
Thank you.
24
MS.
TIPSORD:
Miss Dexter?
Page 61
1
MS. DEXTER: Jessica Dexter with the
2
Environmental Law and Policy Center.
3
MR. JOHNSON:
Before
you get
started,
4
Jessica, just
a
quick question.
5
Dr. Garcia, our
environmental
6
engineering
students
at U
of I are lucky,
because
7
clearly
you enjoy
teaching and have done
a
great
job
8
today.
9
DR. GARCIA:
Thank
you.
10
MS. TIPSORD:
You
say
in your
11
conclusions here that
you
think additional study is
12
essential
prior
to us
setting water quality
13
standards.
Do
you
think the District and the Agency
14
and
us,
ultimately,
will have enough information
to
15
do
that
by
the end of phase one, or
do you
think
16
each of the proposed additional phase two
and
phase
17
three would be --
18
DR. GARCIA: Well, with regards
to
19
Bubbly Creek, I would hope that yes,
we are going
to
20
have
enough --
21
MR. JOHNSON:
Okay.
22
DR. GARCIA:
-- at the
end of phase
23
one.
24
MR. JOHNSON: Which is a little
over
a
Page 62
1
year down the line?
2
DR. GARCIA:
About,
yes.
3
MR. JOHNSON:
Thank you.
4
MS. DEXTER:
One second. All right.
5
Most
of my
pre-filed questions
have been answered
6
during IEPA’s questions,
but
I
do
have
a
few
7
followups
about
the density currents. The density
8
currents
that
your
model
is
predicting,
just so it’s
9
clear to
me, are those
due to
increased sediment
10
density, or is there
a
temperature density factor
11
also?
12
DR. GARCIA:
It could
be a
combination
13
of all of them.
14
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
15
DR. GARCIA: And we have found, after
16
awhile, when
we look
at
the density currents
that we
17
started
in the -- around 2000, we found
out
that
the
18
north branch at times, particularly in the winter,
19
it could be
denser in the main stem, and this had
to
20
do
with the diversion from Lake Michigan. We
21
submitted that, you
know,
this would be the
wind
22
blowing, but
it could also
be a
stratified flow.
At
23
the beginning, we thought the temperature was the
24
main cause
of this,
because it
was in winter
so we
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Page
64
1
contribute.
2
But for clarification,
for
Bubbly
3
Creek, from what
we know
so
far,
now
we are
going to
4
do
more measurements,
and
this
creek
is going
to
5
measure
exactly -- you’re
going
to
see what’s
coming
6
out
of the pumps.
7
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
Does the
8
temperature
of the flow
coming
out
of Bubbly
Creek
9
tend
to be
warmer
or
cooler
than that in
the south
10
branch?
11
DR. GARCIA:
That’s
a good question.
12
If
I had
to guess,
I
think
it’s going
to
be cooler
13
than what
is
there on
a
hot
summer
day.
You
know,
14
things
are sizzling
pretty
good.
That’s
why
it’s
15
called
Bubbly
Creek in the
summer.
So
I
come and
16
look at
it
-- we have
bodies of
temperature,
and now
17
we’re
going
to
measure
more,
but
I think
if
we look,
18
we’re probably
going
to
find
out
that
it’s
going
to
19
be
cooler.
20
Now, having
said
that,
if
you
look
21
at
a
diagram
-- and
if
I could
just
take
a moment
22
here
-- if
you
plot
temperature
versus density,
it
23
looks
like
-- something
like
that.
24
MS. TIPSORD:
I’m sorry.
Dr. Garcia,
Page 65
1
you’re going
to
have
to
explain that for the
record.
2
DR. GARCIA:
Oh, okay.
3
MS. TIPSORD:
Remember, people will
be
4
reading
the transcript and they won’t know what --
S
DR. GARCIA: Well, let me
just say,
6
then, in simple words: To create
-- to
create the
7
density current, just based
on temperature
8
differences, you
need
to
have very large temperature
9
differences.
10
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
And you don’t
11
think
that those temperature differences
12
currently --
13
DR. GARCIA:
I don’t.
14
MS. DEXTER:
There’s not
a
great
15
difference that you
know of?
16
DR. GARCIA:
Not in the summer.
17
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
18
DR. GARCIA:
But if
you
probably
have
19
a CSO today,
it would probably float in Bubbly
20
Creek.
21
MS. DEXTER:
All right.
22
DR. GARCIA:
It will
be
lighter. So
23
you
will
have,
like,
an
overflow
instead of an
24
underf low.
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Page 67
1
undeveloped. If
you don’t have enough density
2
difference,
just
the
motion or the water itself will
3
disrupt the formation of
the density current, and
4
you’ll just have
a
regular river flow,
or what we
5
call
an open
channel flow or
a
free surface flow.
I
6
don’t
know if this
clarifies it.
7
MR. GIRARD:
Yes,
it did.
Thank
you.
8
DR. GARCIA:
The
difference would have
9
to be
large.
10
MS.
DEXTER:
Okay. And if that
-- if
11
there was such
a
large difference
and there -- let’s
12
see.
Let
me
back
up
one
step.
13
How often
throughout the year
14
would you expect a density current
to
occur?
Do
you
15
know that from your model?
16
DR. GARCIA:
You mean
in Bubbly Creek?
17
MS.
DEXTER:
Yes.
In Bubbly Creek,
18
how -- is this
a
constant
problem?
19
DR. GARCIA:
We haven’t
done a long
20
term analysis of it
because we’re still working
on
21
the model,
but
depending on
the conditions of the
22
CSO, there’s a sediment. You’re going
to
have --
23
you
could have
a density current when -- amidst
24
Bubbly Creek,
but you
could
also have
-- you
know,
Page 68
1
Bubbly
Creek is going
to
mix
up
pretty
good, too,
2
but
it’s small compared
to
the amount of water that
3
comes
in.
4
But
at
the junction
with the south
5
branch,
depending what
is
below the sediment, the
6
flow
might
get
there and
just say,
“I’m going
to
7
continue
as a
regular flow,”
but
the conditions
8
could
be
such -- that’s why
we’re showing one of the
9
exhibits
-- that it made plans and may become
a
10
density
flow.
11
So the answer to your question is
12
I don’t
know,
because
it’s going
to
depend on the
13
frequency of CSO events and the characteristics of
14
CSO events,
and that’s why now we’re going back with
15
the
District, and we are going
to
measure exactly --
16
not
just
the
flow, how
much
is coming
out, but
what
17
are
the characteristics of what is coming
out
of
18
there in terms of suspended solids, BOD, D.O., and
19
so
forth, and other parameters.
2Ô
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
21
DR. GARCIA:
So the answer is going
to
22
vary.
It’s going
to depend
on -- and the whole
23
purpose is,
you
know, things are optimized, and TARP
24
gets
bigger. The frequency
of this flow is going to
Page 69
1
go
down, and the characteristics
of the flows are
2
going
to be
bigger. But as
long
as you
pump, the
3
possibility
of having the phenomenon are going to be
4
there.
5
MS. DEXTER: Would you
characterize it
6
as
being
a
rare occurrence
or
a
common occurrence
7
that
-- from -- can
you
tell right now if this
is
8
something
that
you
think happens quite
frequently,
9
or
is this something that happens
more or less --
10
DR. GARCIA:
I
don’t know how
11
frequently
it happens,
but
I think thepotential is
12
there
for this to happen each
time
you
have
a
CSO
13
event.
14
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
15
DR. GARCIA: The potential is there.
16
It
doesn’t mean that it’s going
to
happen
each time,
17
but
it’s there.
18
MS. DEXTER:
Okay.
I think that
19
covers
my followup questions, and
now I’ll
just
ask
20
my pre-filed
questions four and five. Do
you
know
21
if
the District or the University of
Illinois,
22
Urbana-Champaign, or anyone else to
your knowledge
23
has studied
fish
passage
through the CAWS?
24
DR. GARCIA:
Fish passage?
Page 70
1
MS. DEXTER:
Fish
passage.
You
2
mentioned something
about
fish
passage
standards in
3
your testimony.
4
DR. GARCIA: Right.
I
can tell
you
5
what U
of I is doing right now. We haven’t studied
6
fish
passage
in Bubbly Creek, okay? That’s number
7
one. What we are doing right now is
we are
looking
8
at
a
small dam located in the northbranch of the
9
Chicago River
just
before the junction with the
10
north shore channel, and the Friends of the Chicago
11
River
wanted
to
look
at the
possibility
of
modifying
12
the
dam and
put
in
a
fish way there, something they
13
call
a
fish
way,
a fish passage.
14
At that time, we were contacted
by
15
the District. U of I was contacted
by
the District
16
to
see, you
know, if we had any experience with
17
these, and we had done work in the mid-90s. We
did
18
a
substantial
amount
of work for the state,
19
actually. First from IDOT, and then when
the
20
division of water resources went from IDOT
to
the
21
Illinois Department
of National Resources
-- I
think
22
that was with Governor Jim Edgar.
23
We were asked
to
look
at a
way
to
24
prevent drowning accidents
at
low hit
dams,
and
the
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Page
74
1
DR. GARCIA:
So what we did then --
2
this
is how we
get
into the fish passage analysis.
3
So
now what we are trying to do in the lab,
we build
4
a
model.
We
have to
remove the model that we have
5
of the
Chicago River. We have
a
model there, and if
6
you
go to
Wilkie and
you say
density currents
in
the
7
Chicago River, you’re going
to
find it, because
it’s
8
going
to
take
you there to a
picture of the model.
9
We had to
take it
out because
we have no more room,
10
and
now we built
a
model of
a
little bit of
the
11
north shore branch, the
north shore channel, and
12
whatever space
we have for the north branch.
13
And that -- we
have this very old
14
structure,
and
as you
know in September there was
a
15
lot
of flooding there,
so
all of a sudden
the model
16
became very important,
and what we are trying
to do
17
is
see
if
we can modify
-- you
can’t remove it,
18
because
it’s
a
great control structure,
meaning that
19
it controls the
grading of the bottom of the river.
20
So
if
you
take that
out,
the river is going to
try
21
to
level itself again,
and
all these
buildings that
22
you
have encroaching
on the river, they’re -- you’re
23
going
to
have structural problems.
24
But what we’re trying to do
is
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Page
76
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
SS
2
COUNTY
OF
COOK
3
4
5
REBECCA
A.
GRAZIANO, being first
6
duly
sworn on oath
says
that she is
a
court reporter
7
doing
business in the City of Chicago; that she
8
reported in shorthand the proceedings
given
at
the
9
taking of
said hearing and that the foregoing is
a
10
true
and correct transcript of her shorthand notes
11
so
taken
as
aforesaid and contains all
the
12
proceedings
given
at
said hearing.
13
14
15
REBECCA
A.
RAZIANO, CSR
16
29 South LaSalle Street, Suite 850
Chicago, Illinois 60603
17
License
No. :
084-004659
18
19
SUBSCRIBED
AND SWORN
TO
before
me this 17th
day
20
of February, A.D., 2009.
21
Notary Public
22
23
1
Not&yPubIIe-
stteof
HIhb
24
MyComEXPlrè5A7.
2009
Page 77
A
37:1041:23
almostl8:18
answered62:5
7:1840:16
ability 10:14
48:1 52:18,19
35:7
anticipation
41:443:957:3
11:12
54:17
70:19
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46:11
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adapt44:14
16:4 40:11
anybody20:10
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13:1435:24
add48:1555:4
49:4
anyone4:13
15:12,1717:20
56:16,18
adding 54:8
already 5:21
69:22
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22:14
about 5:5 6:17
addition 3:16
8:22
34:23
anything 17:18
36:3,6 46:23
7:2,8,8 8:24
27:12
39:11 55:5
20:1052:15
50:1951:9
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additional
6:13
alternative 33:3
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23:22 26:17
awarded66:13
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alternatives
apparent2l:3
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30:4,21 34:19
address48:16
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34:24 35:15
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always 26:18
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60:10
62:16
38:10,11 39:6
Adrian 4:4
49:11
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71:7
40:21 45:22
aeration 48:16
ambient 29:4
applications
axis 59:19,19
49:450:21
53:8,1654:15
amend6:13
43:16,1849:23
A.D1:1876:20
58:11 62:2,7
aerators 52:7
Amendments
apply54:15
a.ml:19 5:3
70:2 71:13
aerodynamica...
1:9 3:6
appointed 3:2
72:10 75:18,20
60:19
amidst 67:23
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above
33:13
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60:6
27:7 28:19,22
16:23 18:13
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6:23 8:23
above-entitled
affects 53:17
31:8 34:5
40:17 41:5,7
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area 1:8
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accepting3o:6,7
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68:2 70:18
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analysis 53:6
23:19 34:17
60:18 63:12
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44:22
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Page 78
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70:873:16
74:11,12
break 5:2 75:22
breeding
33:17
Brian 3:16
briefly 6:11
bring 20:8
bringing
19:7
brings 29:22
broke 36:8
brothers 71:18
Bubbly 11:7,11
12:11,22 14:11
14:14
15:13,19
16:4 18:14
20:24 21:4,16
27:15,22,24,24
35:10,11,17,18
.36:1637:21
38:23,24
39:5
42:3 46:18,21
47:5,8,19,23
48:6,14,19
49:5,9,24 50:9
50:15,18 51:18
55:2 56:1,10
56:22 60:13
61:19 63:12
64:2,8,15
65:19 67:16,17
67:24 68:1
70:6
budgets
8:6
Buenos 32:5,10
build 4:23 37:4
55:7
71:22
74:3
building
5:8
55:19,20
buildings 74:2 1
buildup 49:11
49:12
built 33:3,6
71:11 72:2
74:10
business 76:7
Butts 33:1 55:10
57:23,24
B-u-t-t-s 57:23
C
C 1:3 2:1
Ca131:13
calculated 24:11
calendars 6:23
call
10:10 17:4
19:1,14 26:15
28:5 29:3 36:2
46:19 49:13
53:1
60:16
67:5 70:13
called
1:13
36:10 39:15
55:15 63:17
64:15 75:8
came 32:6,14
45:14 48:3
51:19
71:6,10
camp
71:15
Canada
25:9,19
canal
34:16
37:22 38:21
canoe 71:2 72:1
72:4,7,14,16
72:21,22 75:1
75:5
canoes 72:1,8,9
capacity 46:12
captured
33:19
careful 52:16
carrying
10:15
case 10:11 11:21
19:17,21
20:5
44:11 45:3,9
45:12
49:24
60:1
cases 18:6
Casey 72:6
catch 13:15
21:19
caught 71:4
cause 1:12 31:18
45:23 62:24
causes
63:10
causing 63:14
CAWS 69:23
celebrating
72:23
cell
71:14
center 1:16 2:12
4:11
11:861:2
centigrade
63 :21,22 66:9
66:9,13,22
Centigrades
66:17
certain 34:5
47:19
50:20
52:1,2
54:4
chairman 2:4
3:10
challenge 72:17
73:18
chances 28:6
53:20
changes
55:18
changing
15:20
16:2
48:18
channel 18:7
67:5 70:10
74:11
characteristics
44:7
68:13,17
69:1
characterize
17:18 69:5
chart
13:9,20
14:22
15:2,6
check 6:22 8:19
Chicago 1:8,17
2:15 3:5 4:2
10:11 12:11
14:7 19:23
23:18 32:7
35:5,24 36:3
37:19,20 38:13
38:19,21,22
40:18 41:6
42:10 44:14
45:23 46:1,6
49:24
51:5
63:5
66:15
70:9,10
72:24
74:5,7
76:7,16
choose 45:15
chute
72:1,4,14
72:16 75:1,6
Cicero 21:2 36:6
circulate 26:4
circulating
24:22
circumstances
38:8
citation 57:9
Page 79
Citgo 6:11
city 13:5
14:19
21:10,11 76:7
clarification
30:12 31:4
35:16 38:3
64:2
clarifies 67:6
clarify
22:22
28:11 29:11
37:14
clarifying 14:17
class 43:22
clean 33:21
cleaning 34:20
Cleanup 33:2 1
clear 62:9
clearly 61:7
close3:23 11:6
71:2,17
closed 7:16
closer 51:4
60:17
code
1:9
3:7
15:10 42:16,18
42:20,23 43:1
43:5,6,24 44:4
44:12,13,19,20
44:22 45:2
codes
44:5
coefficient 53:14
cold 10:6
26:16
27:2 63:1
colder 26:16
66:20
collaboration
56:6
colleagues 25:24
color 15:20 16:2
16:12 27:12
colors 50:16
column 24:16
39:11 52:22
53:22
columns 33:8,12
33:15
34:3
combination
62:12
come 5:19 20:11
22:15 23:11,11
25:13 48:9
56:13,14
64:15
comes
9:21
11:15 12:21
28:5 51:9 68:3
coming 10:5
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18:3,7
18:14 20:17
24:18 28:20,21
45:24 46:18,21
46:24 47:10
48:14 49:15
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60:6 64:5,8
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commencing
1:18
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45:18
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32:12
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complexity
16:19
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8:10
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31:24
66:15
components
43:8
concentrated
20:23 32:3
concentration
16:10,13,14
22:17 23:13
concentrations
16:17
conclusion
27:19 63:4
conclusions
61:11
condition
5 8:20
conditions
11:14
12:9 19:19
21:6 41:13
42:13 45:22
49:1 52:8
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48:23
considerations
44:23
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53:5
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constant 15:15
67:18
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consultant 32:2 1
consultants
44:22
contacted 70:14
70:15
contain 25:11
contains 76:11
contaminants
9:13 10:24
25:12
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49:12,13,14
continue 3:21
4:2
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40:5 68:7
continuing 8:3
contribute 47:2
64:1
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74:18
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6:12
Cook
1:15
76:2
cooler 64:9,12
64:19
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copies 13:6
37:18 50:4
73:22
copy 8:15
57:5,5
Corn
6:6
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26:22
35:21 51:23
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21:15
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50:21
County 1:3,15
76:2
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28:7 53:23
courses 44:20
court 4:20
76:6
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coworkers
58:7
create
65:6,6
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12:11,22 14:11
14:14
15:13,19
16:4 18:14
20:24 21:4,16
27:15,22,24
28:1 35:10,11
35:17,18 36:16
37:22 3
8:23,24
39:5
42:3
46:18,21
47:6
47:8,19,23
48:4,7,14,19
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50:10,15,19
51:18 55:2
56:1,10,23
60:13,20 61:19
63:12 64:3,4,8
64:15 65:20
67:16,17,24
68:1 70:6
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25:21
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14:23 15:3,14
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22:17 41:24
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23:11
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48:6
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50:22
current 9:16
10:10,12
13:1
14:1,6
16:3
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18:17
19:12
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33:16 65:7
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73:12
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58:3,5
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3:24
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7:5 22:11
Page 80
72:5
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22:12
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4:24
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33:7
deep
24:9
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44:9
degrees
63:2 1
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demand
51:3,13
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4:5
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12:23,24
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19:11
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density
9:11,16
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10:4,5
10:10,12 11:10
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14:1,6
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18:17
19:12
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26:9,13
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46:22
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11:14 12:8
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68:5
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34:18
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19:6
Des 1:8
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described
15:2
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72:13
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designed
32:2
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71:21 72:1
detail
17:4
determine
40:17
41:5 42:11
54:22
develop
35:2
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36:1 38:5
45:18
development
63:15
developments
6:16
Dexter
2:13 7:4
7:10,17
60:24
61:1,1 62:4,14
64:7 65:10,14
65:17,21 66:1
66:4 67:10,17
68:20
69:5,14
69:18 70:1
75:14
diagram 64:2 1
66:12
Diers
2:9
9:7,8
11:24 12:4,6
12:10,15 14:16
14:21 20:15
22:1,5,9,16,24
23:3,6,16,22
26:8,21
28:18
29:24
30:3,9
30:13,23
31:2
32:17
34:23
35:6,9,13
36:20 37:1
40:15,20
41:3
42:14
45:20
58:10,15,17,22
60:22
difference 10:18
65:15 66:8,23
66:23 67:2,8
67:11 75:7
differences
9:18
63:9
65:8,9,11
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42:4
45:11
50:16
53:4,11
56:1,9
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difficult 51:23
difficulty 5:21
diffusion 5 9:23
59:24
diluting
29:6
dimension 15:8
dimensional
49:22 58:14,15
diminish
29:9
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discharge 47:20
discharging
15:13 50:20
disposal
24:4
disrupt
67:3
dissipate 71:12
dissolved 10:23
31:8
51:6
54:3
59:17
distance
9:13
29:10
distances
10:20
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distributing
11:1
District
2:14 4:2
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33:3,20 38:5
40:11
53:6
55:4
56:7 59:5
59:15 60:10
61:13 68:15
69:21 70:15,15
diversion
62:20
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70:20
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docket
3:7
Doctor 27:14
document 37:15
37:17 38:4
doing
8:8 10:22
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28:15 34:1
35:23
36:2,14
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46:13 47:4,22
48:10 51:16
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63:2
70:5,7 75:12
76:7
domain 44:12
done
12:10,16
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31:6
39:11,16
41:12
53:12
55:8
61:7
67:19
70:17
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down
5:15
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20:17,20 22:15
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28:4,5
28:24 3 1:17
32:14 36:5,9
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63:5
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download
55:12
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downstream
11:13 21:17
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8:17,18,20,24
9:2,7,15
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14:1,3,20
15:5
20:16 22:3,7
22:12,20
23:2
23:5,8,21,24
26:10,23
27:10
27:18,23
28:20
30:2,7,10,19
30:22
31:1,5
32:19
35:4,7
35:11,15,18,22
36:22
37:3,10
37:13,15
38:2
40:19,22
41:1
41:7
42:19
43:4,9,21 46:2
48:20,22 49:19
50:7
54:18,24
56:24
57:4,7
57:11,17,22
58:2,9,13,16
58:19,24
61:5
61:9,18,22
62:2,12,15
64:11,24
65:2
65:5,13,16,18
65:22
66:2,5,7
66:11 67:8,16
67:19 68:21
69:10,15,24
70:4
73:23
74:1
75:16
draw 66:12
drops5l:11
59:20
drowned
71:19
drowning
33:10
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71:1,8
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dry
41:24 48:24
due 12:20
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62:9
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76:6
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24:8
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7:14
19:18
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47:2
Page
81
62:6
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dynamic 15:8
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dynamics 15:10
42:16,18,20,23
43:1,5 45:6
48:6 60:19
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41:12 43:11
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38:4
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72:17 73:4
Edgar 70:22
educated 42:12
EFDC 42:23
43:2,16,18
44:6,11 45:9
45:14
effect 14:10,13
46:19 47:17
48:17
effects 47:24
efficient 73:18
Effluent 1:7 3:4
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28:12
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74:22
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17:1 48:2
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4:10
7:5 37:20
42:16,18,19,23
43:1,4 61:2,5
EPA 9:9 44:19
44:20 45:4
equals 22:17
equation 56:16
63:17
equations 50:12
50:13
especially 8:5
essential6l:12
essentially 14:3
46:20 47:12
establish 44:1
estimated 23:14
estuaries 43:12
estuary 44:8
even 52:19
60:7
60:13
event
12:21
15:14 17:21
41:24 47:3
51:19 59:17,21
60:8 69:13
events 14:11,14
14:24 15:3
21:19 27:17
41:24 48:13
68:13,14
eventually 9:23
Everglades
43:24
every 33:20
everyone 7:22
8:1
everything
8:8
36:13,19
exactly
64:5
68:15
exaggerate 66:2
examination 8:3
example 11:4
43:8 44:2 52:6
53:14
excuse 37:5
exercise 23:9
31:24 59:1,13
exercises
51:8
51:17
exhibit 4:7,8 9:3
9:4 14:15,15
15:3,4 22:16
23:1 27:10
29:13 37:18,24
38:1 42:22
43:2,3,15,19
43:19,23 47:1
49:21 50:2,3
58:11
exhibits 50:4
68:9
exit 72:2473:2
expect 67:14
experience
55:9
70:16
72:20
experiencing
31:9
experimental
55:3
experimentally
56:15
explain 9:16
12:15 15:5
38:18 48:9
65:1
explained 36:15
explaining
15:10
explains 17:2
38:9
explore 14:5
15:11
exposed 45:2
exposure 45:7
express 4:24
extension 28:8
extensive 8:9
extent 59:23
extern 3:17
extra 50:3
F
facell:8
facing 20:17
fact73:18
factor 62:10
failure 33:5
fair 51:11
fairly 51:12
familiar 34:15
41:1
far3:13 6:17
20:1
25:18
28:24
29:1
64:3
fashion 42:12
fast
50:18 51:1
52:17
53:19
72:11,12
73:3
faster
47:22
53:15
February 1:5,18
6:20 76:20
federal 44:2 1
few 25:4 40:10
62:6 72:21
field 25:8 50:16
63:2
figure 17:2,3
22:17 23:4
26:2 29:13
42:9 50:12,14
50:18,21 53:13
55:18
58:12,18
58:19
59:3,4,6
59:6
72:14
fill 33:16
finally
36:18
71:22
find 10:17 15:22
20:19
25:22
33:14 41:18
64:18 74:7
finding 19:5
finds 9:22 29:16
fine20:15 25:13
31:12 33:11,14
33:14
56:13
57:21
finish 5:9
finished 3:24 7:9
first 9:16 15:24
16:9 26:4 34:2
34:4,12 42:17
59:20 60:15,16
70:19
76:5
fish 26:14,20
27:5
45:6
52:8
52:23 69:23,24
70:1,2,6,12,13
70:13 72:5,13
72:16 73:15,19
73:20 74:2
75:2,8,12
fishes 72:10
five 34:24
66:8
69:20
five-year 45:2
flat 34:4
flip 73:7
float 65:19
flooding 74:15
flow 9:17,17
10:7
11:10
12:9 15:15
16:9,18,19,22
17:13 18:7,10
18:20
20:12,17
20:19,20
21:6
27:4
28:4,5,9
29:4,5,7,7,15
29:21
31:21
39:24 42:5,6
45:24 47:9,14
47:16,20,20
48:14,16,24
50:15,23,24
51:14,15 52:11
Page 82
52:16 53:7,18
55:6,21 56:10
56:22 62:22
64:8
66:24
67:4,5,5
68:6,7
68:10,16,24
72:15
flowing 11:3
flows 9:24
10:14
11:2,9,19
22:13,15 24:12
24:18 26:13,17
27:20
28:12
29:3
34:11
69:1
fluctuating
59:10
fluid42:16,18
42:23 43:1,4
fluids
9:18
flush 34:6
folks 73:11 75:6
follow 27:8
48:12 54:14
55:9
following 75:23
followup
4:13
40:20 69:19
followups
62:7
force 22:7
Ford 6:12
foregoing 76:9
fork 27:17
37:21
38:22 40:18
41:6 46:1
form 19:11
25:17
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forms 52:23
forth 11:9 44:15
44:17 49:2
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fortunately
25:11
forward 8:10
found 17:16,22
24:19 25:1
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62:15,17 72:11
four 4:12 32:17
50:4 66:13
69:20 72:21
fourth 18:5
Fox 71:5
frankly 5:17
6:10
Fred48:23
53:8
Fredric 2:15
free67:5
Freidman 4:4
frequency 68:13
68:24
frequently 21:22
69:8,11
freshwater 28:5
Friday 6:21
Friends 70:10
73:16
from 3:15,17,21
4:1 5:4,9,22
6:6,20 7:3
15:23 17:20
18:9 22:13
25:21 28:13
29:7 32:5 33:9
36:3 38:19
41:11 43:20,21
45:11 48:4
V
49:9,15 51:9
52:4 54:8
55:13,22 56:5
57:1 59:12,23
62:20 64:3
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69:7
70:19,20 72:6
front 16:3,3 50:5
full 22:7
function 15:18
52:4 56:21
further 18:1
29:6 54:21
60:22
future 5:5
34:21
G
G3:10
gallons 18:11
Garcia 2:16 4:3
8:17,18,20,24
9:2,8,15 12:3,5
12:7,14,17
13:10,13,18,22
14:1,3,20 15:5
20:16 22:3,7
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SUBSCRIBED
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