Page

THE MATTER

OF:

WATER QUALITY

STANDARDS

AND

EFFLUENT

LIMITATIONS

FOR

THE

)

No. R08-9

Chicago

Area

Waterways

System

AND THE

LOWER DES

PLAINES RIVER:

PROPOSED AMENDMENTS

35 ILL.

ADM.

Code Parts 301,

302,

303

and

304.

TRANSCRIPT

PROCEEDINGS

held

the

above-entitled

cause

before

Hearing

Officer

Marie

Tipsord,

taken before

Tamara

Manganiello,

RPR,

at 14

West Jefferson

Street,

Room

308, Joliet,

Illinois,

on the 28th

day

October,

A.D.,

2008, commencing

9:06 a.m.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

APPEARANCES

ILLINOIS

POLLUTION

CONTROL

BOARD:

Ms. Marie

Tipsord,

Hearing

Officer

Ms.

Alisa Liu, P.E.,

Environmental

Scientist

Mr. Tanner

Girard, Acting

Chairman

Mr.

Nicholas

Melas, Board

Member

Mr.

Thomas

Johnson,

Board

Member

ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL

PROTECTION

AGENCY:

Ms. Stefanie

Diers

Ms. Deborah

Williams

OFFICE

OF THE

ATTORNEY GENERAL

STATE OF ILLINOIS,

West Washington

Street

Suite 1800

Chicago,

Illinois

60602

(312)

814-4947

BY:

MS. SUSAN HEDMAN

ENVIRONMENTAL

LAW

AND POLICY

CENTER,

East Wacker Drive

Suite 1300

Chicago,

Illinois

60601

(312)

795-3707

BY:

MR.

ALBERT

ETTINGER

MS. JESSICA

DEXTER

Appeared

on behalf

of ELPC, Prairie

Rivers

Network

and

Sierra

Club

BARNES

THORNBURG,

LLP,

One North Wacker

Drive

Suite 4400

Chicago, Illinois

60606-2833

(312)

357-1313

BY:

MR. FREDERIC

P. ANDES,

Appeared on

behalf

the

Metropolitan

Water

Reclamation

District

of Greater

Chicago

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10/28/08.)

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

And,

Mr. Andes,

you

said there

was someone else

that

might be assisting Mr. Mastracchio. Do

you

want

swear her in?

MR. ANDES:

Yes, Eileen McGell±ott

from the District.

(Witness sworn.)

MR. ANDES:

addition, Mr. Kunetz

may help respond

some of the questions

but

he’s already been sworn in.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Thank

you.

Then I believe we

begin with the IEPA

today.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Good morning,

Mr. Mastracchio, my name is Deborah

Williams

and I’m appearing on behalf of Illinois

EPA

today.

I’m going

start

at the beginning

with number one

pre-filed questions.

Would you tell

what areas

you

consider yourself an expert?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

specialize in

municipal financial planning

and public

utility

financial planning and rate setting

well

utility evaluations.

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page

THE

COURT REPORTER:

I need

you to

speak up.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you want

him

repeat?

THE COURT

REPORTER:

No.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

agree with

the

cost

estimates

for disinfection

developed

CTE and Dr.

Zenz?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I haven’t been

asked

the

District

to develop an

opinion

the

those cost estimates.

MS. WILLIAMS:

You’re

just relying

the structured

measures

work for

those

costs?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

That’s correct.

MS. WILLIAMS:

How would any

mistake

in developing

these capital

and O&M

cost

estimates

affect

your

conclusions?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t really

know

this

point and

it really

depends on

the

magnitude

any

changes

those

estimates.

MS. WILLIAMS:

So the larger

the

changes,

the more

significant

the impact

your conclusions;

that correct?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yeah, in general,

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page

limitation

.5 milligrams

per

liter for

total

phosphorous

and between

and

8 milligrams

per liter

for

total

nitrogen.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Stacy

Meyers-Glen,

for

the

record.

I’m

just

trying

catch all

of this.

What

was the

number

for

phosphorous

again,

please?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

0.5

milligrams

per

liter.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Since

Counsel

for

the

District

indicated

that

Mr.

Kunetz

could

help

got

into this,

can

we sort

put

that

in the

context

the testimony

yesterday

from the

master

plan

alternatives?

Can

you

that

for

us?

sounds

to me

one of

the

alternatives

discussed

yesterday,

Mr.

Kuentz.

MR.

KUNETZ:

Would

you

please

explain

what

you

mean by

putting

in the

context

the

master

plan?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Well,

Mr.

Mastracch±o

is assuming

the level

of treatment

for

phosphorus

when

-- well,

let me

ask this

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Page 16

you

mean

the amounts?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

The amounts that the

District is awarded from those

funds, the

state

revolving

funds, on an annual basis.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I would imagine

they

would fluctuate from

year to year, but I

don’t know exactly

how much they fluctuate.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

know if the

District receives

certain

percentage of the

state

revolving

funds each year?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No.

I don’t think

there’s a

set --

MS. WILLIAMS:

You’re not

aware?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I’m

not aware that

there’s

set

percentage

that they would

receive.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Do any of the

other

witnesses know the answer?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

I’m

not sure what

the

percentage is.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Are

you

aware if

it’s

percent

of the total that

goes to the

District?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

I don’t know what

the

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Page 18

voters.

Did

you

evaluate whether

disinfection could

implemented

two

the facilities within

the existing framework?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No, I did not.

MS. WILLIAMS:

What

about at just one

of them?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No.

MS. WILLIAMS:

So the only option

you

looked

was disinfection

at all three

facilities?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Correct.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Is there

reason

for

that?

MR. MASTRACCHIO: Yeah.

ItTs my

understanding that that was

the proposal, is

the

requirement

would

to do

all

three.

MS. WILLIAMS:

And if the

Board

adopted something different than

the proposal

that required disinfection

at only one

facility, f or example,

would that change

any

of your

conclusions

about

affordability?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t

believe it

L.A.

REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page 19

would change my conclusions.

When

you

look

the

District’s taxing authority and

bonding authority, even without the

disinfection projects,

they’re -- the

District

is very close or projected

to be

very close

those

limits even without

projects.

MR.

ANDES:

We have

chart that

shows

that.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Is it one of the

charts

from the

testimony

or ±5 it

new chart?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

It’s Attachment

from my testimony.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

MR. ANDES:

I think

we’d like

to put

that

on the easel.

We haven’t

used the

easel

yet.

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

And this

Attachment 3

Mr.

Mastracchio’s testimony?

MR. ANDES:

Yes.

And we have

copies.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

I don’t

think we need

mark it

exhibit since

it’s an

attachment,

but

might

easier

for viewing.

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REPORTING (312)

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Page 21

MS. WILLIAMS:

Can

you

explain what

value is assumed for the tax -- for

the CPI

plus new property

(inaudible).

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

I didn’t

hear that, Deb.

MS. WILLIAMS:

At the bottom it

says

CPI plus new

property. What value is

assumed

for

CPI plus new property?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I believe it was in

the 4

percent range. I can give

you a

precise number if I

get

back

to my

seat

here.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

(Brief

pause.)

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

It ranged from --

MR. ANDES:

It’s on Table A-5 on

Page

24.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

ranges from

3.7 percent

4.2 percent

per year.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Could

you

repeat

the

page? I’m sorry.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Page 24.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Of your

testimony,

correct?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Correct.

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Of the

report

attached

to his

testimony.

presumably if

you

were able

use

the 5 percent

value, that

chart would

look different,

correct?

the

consumer price

index

went

through

the roof, which

is hard

to imagine,

right,

but

if it did --

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

If it did,

then

the

5 percent

would

the

limiting

-- would

likely

the

limiting factor

and

the black

line

would raise

up by

a few percentage

points.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Getting

back

to the

answer

to your previous

question,

the second

limitation

is shown on

the

bottom

chart.

And

this is basically

the

District’s

bonding

authority.

And

this black

line

shows what --

the

annual

principal

and

interest

payments,

their

offer

as to -- to

be at. And

I think

they

can’t

above

that

black line.

The

projection of

annual

principal

payments

based on

the capital

improvements

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 23

planning, excluding

disinfection, is shown

the blue bars here.

And

you can

see

through 2015 they

get very close

that black line and

actually in 2016 and 2017

they slightly

exceed

it.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Why did

you decide

stop at

2017?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I believe the

rationale for that was related

to projecting

out

far enough

that it

incorporates the

construction time frame.

I believe that was

an eight

year -- eight years

out. So

stopped

after

construction was completed

and

O&M

expenses would commence.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Are there

any

significant changes

youTre

aware of after

2017?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO: Not that

m aware

of.

MS. WILLIAMS:

when

TARP is

completed there are

not any significant

changes

to your chart?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

believe that I

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

have

incorporated

the --

the

extent

that

the

District

plans

fund

TARP and

that’s

incorporated into the

analysis.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

when

the

District

done

funding

TARP?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Some

the

limitations

such as

the bonding

authority

exclude

TARP projects.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Does the

bonding

authority

also

include

state

revolving

fund

projects

does

it exclude

those,

well?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

It’s

understanding that

SRF funding

is not

included

the

limited

bond

authorizations.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

it’s

not

included

the bond

limitations

and

it’s

also

not

included

one

of the

potential

sources

revenue

projecting

forward

beyond

2010?

really

don’t

understand

this

stuff

very

well,

so assume

know

nothing.

I’m

just

trying

to understand

why

couldn’t

basically

pay

for

disinfection

with

SRF

bonds

then.

MR.

ANDES:

You want

ask

all

the

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

other states

the

cities

the

state

Illinois?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

It’s

understanding,

actually,

the District

gets

half of

that

money.

I’m

not

-- that

may

not be

true.

But

don’t

think

have

ask

them because

think

the

District

gets

a set

pot

that

money

and

want

to understand.

MR.

ANDES:

I’m

not sure

that’s

been

established.

Nobody

here

testified

that

the

District

gets

set

amount.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

But

did you

just

testify

that

have

to ask

other

cities?

mean, I

don’t

think

this is

relevant.

I’d

rather

just

hear

what

Mr. Mastracchio

wants

to stay.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Could

you

repeat

the

question,

please?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Yes.

Why

can’t

state

revolving

fund

authority

be used

pay

for

the disinfection

technology?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I think

from

comparison

the relevant

amount

of SRF

funding

that the

District

receives,

it’s

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

relatively

small

compared

the

size

their

capital

program.

MS. WILLIAMS:

it wouldn’t

enough,

is that

what

you’re

saying?

MR. MASTPACCHIO:

It wouldn’t

sufficient

cover

all the

costs,

that’s

correct.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Congress

votes

total

for

SRF every

year,

doesn’t

it?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

believe

they

appropriate

certain

amounts

of funds

each

year.

MR.

ETTINGER:

And

that

varies

from

year

year?

MR. ANDES:

don’t

think

-- do

you

know

what

the

numbers

are?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

don’t know

specifically what

the

numbers

are.

MR.

ETTINGER:

didn’t

ask him

about

specific

numbers.

just asked

him

about

the

program.

Do you

know that

there’s

appropriation

made

every

year

and

that

varies

from

year

year?

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 27

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MR. ETTINGER:

We really don’t know

now what

Congress is going

to appropriate in

2012 or

2016 for the SRF fund?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t know.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Thank

you.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Ms. Williams, I think

we’re back

to you.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Just

moment.

(Brief

pause.)

MS. WILLIAMS:

Question eight from

pre—filed

questions,

are

you

able

to express

the

cost

disinfection for MWRDGC

in terms

affordability, i.e.,

as a percentage of

median

household income

the

sewer users

served?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

you

know

if anyone

has done that

analysis for

the District?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

don’t know.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

When we

spoke

the last

set

of hearings

with Mr.

McGowan he

referred one

of his questions

you

and

that

was related

question

from our

pre-filed

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

questions for Mr. McGowan.

I asked him

in his report he

identified

a variety of economic information

gathered from units of local government

such

median household

income, bond rates and

property taxes and I asked him if this

information appeared anywhere

in his study

and he said, no, that it

was used

it was

gathered for

your report.

So my question

to you is

how

this

data,

median

household income, bond

ratings and property

tax

data used

in your

report?

MR. ANDES:

Can

you

refer

to a

specific question

Mr. McGowan?

MS. WILLIAMS:

Question

21.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Question

21.

MR. ANDES:

Could

you

provide

with

‘9

a copy of that? I thought I had it.

MS. WILLIAMS:

If I can

get the book,

I will.

MR. ANDES:

Sure.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

As I said

previously, the analysis

that I did looked

L.A. REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

the

District’s

ability

to pay

for

projects

associated

with

disinfection.

I didn’t

look

-- the

analysis

did

not

look

at customer

affordability,

median

household

incomes,

that information

wasn’t

used

my analysis.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

The last

point

that

I think

just

wanted

to be

sure

clarify

on this

question

and

I don’t

have

Mr.

McGowan’s

testimony

in front

either,

but

was this

information

that

was

identified

actually

provided

part of

the

District’s

testimony

and

if not,

can

make

sure

that

this

information

that’s

identified

that was

gathered

provided

for

the record?

MR.

ANDES:

You’re

asking

for

the

information

that

was

used by

Mr.

McGowan.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

That was

gathered

Mr.

McGowan

and

identified

his

report.

MR.

ANDES:

Sure.

MS. WILLIAMS:

If it

wasn’t

-- I’m

hoping

that

it’s

all

there,

but

it’s

not

would

it.

MR.

ANDES:

anything

referred

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

Appendix

that’s

not

there,

you

want

that

provided,

fine.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

That’s

all

have

for

this

witness.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

That

moves

the

People.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Good

morning,

Mr.

Mastracchio.

My name

Susan

Hedman

and

represent

the

People

the

State

Illinois

this

proceeding.

MR.

ANDES:

Let

clarify

one

thing

before

move

further.

Just

everyone

knows

how

pronounce

his

name,

it’s

Mastracchio.

MS. WILLIAMS:

got

right.

MR.

ANDES:

There

you

go.

MS.

HEDMAN:

I’d

start

following

these

questions

about

the

state

revolving

fund.

And

think

order

that

would

useful

look

the

2007

and

2008

budgets

which

have

been

entered

Exhibit

this

proceeding.

And

for

ease

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Let’s

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

clarify.

The exhibits

were not

-- the

budgets

were not

entered

exhibit.

link

the

budgets

were

entered

exhibit.

MS.

HEDMAN:

A link

the

budgets

was

entered

as an

exhibit

No.

67 in

this

proceeding.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Correct.

MS. HEDMAN:

And we

have

few

copies

that

may

helpful

in terms

looking

this now.

(Brief

pause.)

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

mark

the

2007

budget

Exhibit

160

there’s

objection.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

160.

MR.

ANDES:

These

are not

questions

from

the pre-filed

questions,

I right?

MS. HEDMAN:

No.

following

the

questions

from IEPA

the state

revolving

funds

the

moment.

I’ll

get

ontb

the pre-filed

questions

momentarily.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

We11

mark

the

2008

budget

as Exhibit

161

there’s

objection.

Seeing

none,

its

Exhibit

161.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

Now

are these

the entire

MS.

HEDMAN:

Yes.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Okay.

MS.

HEDMAN:

And

these are

the

budget

books

taken from

the MWRD

website

from the

links

that

have

been marked

as Exhibit

167.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Thank

you.

MS. HEDMAN:

d like

to start

with

the 2007

budget

and turn

to Page 39.

Mr.

Mastracchio,

is this

a chart

that

or graphic

that shows

where

the

DistrictTs

money

comes from and

where

the

DistrictTs

money goes?

MR.

MASTRA.CCHIO:

Yes,

it is.

MS.

HEDM.AN:

And

are

state

revolving

fund

loans

portion

the money

identified

and

where

the

money comes

from?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

The

state revolving

loans and

future

bond

sales

are

component

of where

the money

comes from.

MS.

HEDMAN:

And what

the

percentage

amount in the

2007

budget?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

In the

-- I believe

the

number

that

shown

on this chart

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 33

161.2 million for

loans and future bond

sales.

MS. HEDMAN:

And

do you have any

knowledge

as to how -- what portion of that

is revolving loans and which

what portion

of it is future bond

sales?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t have any

knowledge of that, no.

MS. HEDMAN:

when you’ve

been

testifying

about the limit on the District’s

bonding authority,

you

don’t know how big

constraint that is relative

the

amount

revolving loan money that would

available

the District; is that correct?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No, that’s not

correct. I can

clarify. The projections of

bond fund and loan fund money were

developed

based

on the 2008

budget.

There’s

five-year forecast in

that budget. And

beyond

that five-year

forecast thee is --

the

projection

was developed in consultation

with the District and --

MR. ANDES: Actually,

think

that

Ms.

McGelliott can

shed

some further light on

L.A. REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

that.

MS. HEDMAN:

YOuTre

not answering

question,

actually.

My question

was what

portion

of this

is bonding

and what

portion

of this

state

loan

fund

money?

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

Actually,

that

was your first

question.

Your second

question

him was

a little

different and

he’s trying

clarify

the second

question.

MS.

HEDMAN:

He said he

didn’t know

the answer

the first

question.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Right.

And

then

you

asked

a second

question and

you had

misstated

how

he answered

the second

question,

so he’s

trying

clarify

that.

We can

then ask that

question

your initial

question

you

like,

but

think we

need

clarify

his answer

because

you

asked him

a question,

he said,

no,

that’s

not

correct,

and now he’s

trying

explain

why

what

you’ve

rephrased

wasn’t

correct.

can

get

to both,

but

I’m

just

saying

keep the record

clear.

Go ahead.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

guess

did I

answer

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

to your satisfaction

the answer of, no, why I

didn’t think

your statement was correct?

MS.

HEDMAN:

Well, if

it were

formal

legal proceeding

I would have moved

to strike

as nonresponsive. But

lTd

get

answer

to my initial

question.

MR.

MASTRACCEIO:

I said I didn’t

know

the answer

to that.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Right,

you didn’t.

you do,

indeed, know

the answer

the

initial

question of looking

this

chart of

state

revolving

fund loans and

future bond

sales,

can

you

give

some

sense of what

percentage would

future

bond sales and

which would

be state

revolving

loan funds?

I think

we’ve established

there’s

no limit on

the amount of

state

revolving

loan funds.

MR. ANDES:

I don’t

think we’ve

established that.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Yeah.

MS.

HEDMAN:

That was his answer

the

question.

MR. ANDES:

No.

wasn’t aware of

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

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put

in bond

sales

that

we anticipate.

If we

anticipated

a bond

sale

this

year,

would

included

in this

state

revolving

fund

loans

and future

bond

sales

order

balance

our

budget.

it’s not

a one-to-one

relationship.

MR.

JOHNSON:

Okay.

MR.

ANDES:

Of that

161

million

identified

there,

believe

you

said that

around

$40

million,

that

was

SRF,

attributable

SRF?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

Correct.

MR.

ANDES:

the balance

would

future

bond sales?

MS.

MCGEIjLIOTT:

Correct.

DR.

GIRARD:

Can

I just

ask

one

quick

clarifying

questioning

make

sure that

have

this

straight?

When you

talk

about

lower

rate

for

these

state

revolving

funds,

youTre

talking

about

lower

interest

rate?

MS.

MCGELIjIOTT:

Correct.

DR.

GIRARD:

Thank

you.

MS.

HEDMAN:

turn

to the

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

2008

budget,

which

has been marked as

Exhibit 161, Page 39, where there’s

similar

chart for the 2008

budget

year.

And

ITm

not sure who I

m directing

questions

to at

this point,

but

could someone

tell me the amount

for the state

revolving

fund

loans and future bond sales in 2008?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

The numbers shown on

Page 39 of the 2008

budget

book for

state

revolving

loans and future bond sales is

691.9 million.

MS. HEDMAN:

it’s four

five

times the amount

in 2007?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yes, it is

significantly larger.

MR. ANDES:

Can

I ask Ms. McGelliott

to explain that?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

In 2008 we

budgeted

$54 million in SRF.

MR. ANDES:

That’s on what

page?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

Page 74 of the 2008

budget.

MR. ANDES:

So the bulk of that

was

future bond sales?

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

Correct.

MS. HEDMAN:

Were

those bond

sales for

the

TARP

project?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

m sorry?

MS.

HEDMAN:

Were

those

bond

sales for

the TARP

project?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

They

for the

capital

improvements.

Bonds

fund all

our

capital

projects

including

-- that would

include

any TARP projects.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Was the bulk

that

for

the TARP

project,

do you

know?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

For

the

2008, I

believe

-- no,

I believe

itls

part

of TARP.

And I

think Mr.

Kuentz may

be able

clarify

that,

but I believe

in 2008

we had

a couple

of large

projects,

one maybe

to the

master plan.

MR.

KUNETZ:

I wasn

following

your

question.

Could

you

please

repeat

what

you

asked?

MS. HEDMAN:

looked

at the 2007

and

2008

budgets

and

we’re now

looking

the

2008

budget, the

state

revolving

fund

loans

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Page 45

goes

the other direction, the opposite is

true?

MR MASTRACCI-ITO:

You are correct.

MR. JOHNSON: Although, you’re not

required

to.

MS. HEDMAN:

I’d like

talk for

moment

about

user charges. Tax revenue is

part of the revenue

that

the District

collects, user charges are another source?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

User charges are

another source of revenue,

yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

And who

pays

user

charges?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Industrial customers

and tax exempt customers.

MS. HEDMAN:

I’d like

turn back

the chart on Page

39 of the 2008 budget.

What

percentage of the District’s revenues

come from user charges?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

According

Page

of the 2008

budget

book, 3.4 percent of

the

revenue comes from

user charges.

MS.

HEDMAN:

How

about

from taxes?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

you

look

the

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Page

removing

nutrients

disinfecting?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

It’s

possible.

MR.

ANDES:

Are

you

aware

that

St.

Louis

does

not

disinfect?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Objection.

MR.

MASTP.ACCHIO:

I’m not

aware

that.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

This

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

think

the

point

has

been

made.

Let’s

move

on.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Mr.

Andes

made

the

point

that

if user

charges

were

increased

believe

he asked

a question

asking

whether

not

if user

charges

were

increased,

companies

might

move

away;

is that

correct?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Yes,

asked

that

question.

MS.

HEDMAN:

And

you

said,

yes,

that

is true.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

said that

was

possibility.

MS.

HEDMAN:

company

Chicago

were

move to

Philadelphia,

they’d

end

bearing

higher

sewage

costs;

isn’t that

true?

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REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page

Mr.

Mastracchio,

it also

possible

that

industry

in Chicago

could choose

move

community

less

than

million?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yeah,

I would

think

that

would

possible.

MR.

ANDES:

And

those

numbers

would

not

represented

the table?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

No.

MR.

ANDES:

Can

I ask

I can

follow-up

with

one

other

question?

Is it true

that

independent

what the

operating

costs

are

costs

per

million

gallons

treated

that

the

practical

limitation

here

on the

Districts

ability

raise money

the

tax

limitations

that

apply?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I would

agree

with

that.

MR. ANDES:

Thank

you.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Just

for

clarity,

the tax

limitations

apply

user

fees?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

No,

does

not.

MR.

ANDES:

the applicable

Clean

Water Act

requirements

charging

people

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

for their

costs apply

user fees?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yes, they

do.

DR. GIRARD:

Just

clarify

little

further,

do individuals that discharge

the

system

pay

any user

fees to the District?

I’m talking

about individuals, not

individuals corporations. I’m

talking about

individual homeowners.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

It’s my

understanding that they don’t. They

get

charged

based

tax

-- assessed value.

DR. GIRARD:

Does the District have

any authority

to charge individual

homeowners

for their

discharge?

MR. ANDES:

I think we provided

legal answer

that question,

but

believe

the answer was no.

MR.

ETTINGER:

As long

you’re

providing

legal answers, would

you

come

with

a citation regarding the

pre-treatment

fees

(inaudible) .

THE COURT REPORTER:

I can’t hear him.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Remember

keep

your voices

and talk

the court

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

reporter.

MR.

ETTINGER:

As long

as you

are

doing

legal research,

could

you

provide

citation

the

pre-treatment

fees

limitations

also?

MR.

ANDES:

can provide

statements

applicable

user

charge requirements.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Thank

you.

MS.

HEDM.AN: Now

it’s basically

your

contention

that

MWRD

doesn’t

have sufficient

financial resources

fund

capital

expenditures

and

the O&M

costs

necessary

disinfect;

is that

correct?

MR. MASTRACCI-IlO:

Not

within the

current limitations.

MS.

HEDMAN:

And if we

go to

Attachment

your testimony,

that’s

the

chart that

passed

out, I’d like

to make

sure

that I understand

that basically

the

teal

colored

area is projects

expected

td be

awarded

for --

sewer projects

expected

to be

awarded

between

today

and 2019;

that

correct?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

It’s

the annual

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 57

amount of

expected capital improvement

program expenditures.

MS. HEDMAN:

And the yellow is for the

actual wastewater treatment plants?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

Part of it is sewers,

part of

is wastewater treatment plants and

then the dark blue on

top

is TARP; is that

correct?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

TARP is on the

top,

yeah. It’s not blue in my

copy

here.

MS. REDMAN:

copy

from your

testimony. Now

you have something that’s

indicated

CIBF

cash balance. Is that the

capital improvement bond fund balance?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MS. HEDMAN: And according

to this

chart, what

do you

show

that balance

to be

2008?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

In 2008 it’s

just --

it looks like

to be just

shy of 400 million.

MS. HEDMAN:

It looks like

about

375 million; would

you agree?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

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REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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funds in 2008

would drop

the balance down

from

what

Tsshown

on Page

90 of the

budget

book

what

it would

be at

the end of

2008.

MS. HEDMAN:

Now this

cash

balance

that

is shown

on Page 90

in the capital

improvement

bonds

fund,

does

that include

investment

income

that is accumulated

the

fund?

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Yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

And

does

that

include

interest

that may have

been earned

on grants

that

have

been reimbursed

from the

state

revolving

fund and other

loan revenue?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I believe

so, yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

you

have

any

idea

how

much

of the money

in that fund

comes from

those

sources? Isn’t

that amount

about

$130 million?

MR.

ANDES:

I’m

sorry, which

amount?

MS.

HEDMAN:

The

amount

of investment

income

sitting

in that account.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Well,

I think

you

look

at Page

91 of the 2008

budget there’s

to give

you a

sense of

investment income

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

estimated

included

2008

budget, you

can

see

in 2008

on Page 91 of

the

budget

that

the

District was

budgeting

about 18.9

million

of investment

income

and miscellaneous.

MS.

HEDMAN:

That’s the

amount

investment

income earned

that year?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Correct.

MS.

HEDMAN:

All right. But

isn’t

there

accumulated amount

money that is

sitting in that

fund

that’s interest

that’s

been

earned on

other monies

that the

District

has

collected over

the years

the tune

about

$130

million?

MR.

ANDES:

Is there

a particular

line

item

you’re

looking

at?

MS.

HEDMAN:

I’m

looking

the cash

and investments

line

item on Page

90.

MR. ANDES:

The

$130

million

number?

MS.

HEDMAN:

I’m asking

him

whether

that amount

about

riht for

the

accumulated

interest

and

income?

MR. ANDES:

I was

just

asking where

you

got

the

number

from?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t

know.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312) 419-9292

Page

MS. 1-IEDMAN:

You

don’t

know.

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I don’t

know

right

now what

how much

has

been accumulated

that’s

still

the

fund

from

interest

revenues.

may

the

comprehensive

annual

financial

report.

I can

leaf

through

that and

see

if I can

give

you

number,

but

right

now

can’t put

hands

specific

number

and I don’t

MS.

1-JEDMAN:

you

know

the

answer

that

question?

MS.

MCGELLIQTT:

Any interest

or funds

would

have

they

would

show in

the

cash

and

investments,

the

447

million.

any

earned

interest

over

the

years

the

bond

proceeds,

that would

show

on the

cash

and investments.

MR.

ANDES:

That

includes

investments

well

as cash,

it’s

not

just cash?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

Right.

MR.

ANDES:

And

if I can

with

Mr. Mastracchio

Ms. McGelliott,

can

you

explain

the

benefits

the

District

having

cash

hand?

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REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page 64

(No

verbal response.)

MS. HEDMAN: Would

it surprise you if

I were

to tell

you

that Mr. Lanyon thought

that amount was 130 million in August of this

year?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

I’m not sure how

answer the question.

MR. ANDES: Is there

particular

statement

that he made that you’re citing to?

MS. HEDMAN: Mr. Lanyon didn’t testify

on any of these issues. I

was told

defer

these

questions to later issues. If this

witness is

unable to confirm, I will

be --

MR.

ANDES:

I mean, where is this

statement you’re referring

to about

the 130

million?

MS. HEDMAN:

I asked

her if she would

surprised

about

that.

MR. ANDES:

You’re not going

offer

evidence?

MS. HEDMAN:

If we’re going

talk

about

Mr. Lanyon, I’ll

speak to

you about a

stipulation later.

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

This might

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

a good

time

to take

about a

ten-minute

break.

WeTll

come

back

about ten minutes

that

Mr.

Andes

can confer

and perhaps

the

two of

you can discuss

you

might

able

tell

him

little

bit more

of where you’re

going, Ms.

Hedman.

(Whereupon, after

a short

break

was had,

the

following proceedings

were

held accordingly.)

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

Let’s

back

on the record.

I believe

actually

have

question pending.

(Whereupon,

the following

portion of

the record

was read

accordingly:

Would it

surprise

you

if I

were

tell

you

that Mr. Lanyon

thought

that amount

was

130 million

August of

this year?)

MR.

ANDES:

I asked for

the basis

for

that statement.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page 68

excess

capital

investment bond fund income

was transferred

to the reserve

claim fund

bringing the

total -

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

What

page?

I’m

sorry.

MS. HEDMAN:

Page 60 of the 2007

budget.

MR. ANDES:

Page

61?

MS. HEDMAN:

Page 60 of the 2007

budget.

There’s

sentence on there that

says a

2008 transfer

of excess CIBF

investment

income

the reserve fund will

bring funds near the statutory maximum and we

just referred

that statutory maximum; is

that correct?

MS. MCGEIjLIOTT:

Yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

So that fund

is the

current

balance of the reserve claim fund

about $55 million?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

That’s correct.

MS. HEDMAN:

And

does the 2008 budget

project

about

$4.2

million in liabilities for

the reserve

claim fund?

MR. ANDES:

you

have

a page number?

L.A.

REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page 69

MS.

MCGELI

TOTT:

Yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

So currently

in that

fund

you

have

something

that’s more

than ten

times

the

projected

liability

for

that fund in

the

current year;

that correct?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

That was

our

estimate

for

1/1/08.

As of that

date,

we estimated

that we would

have an

outstanding

liability

4.2 million.

MR.

ANDES:

For the

year 2008?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

As of 1/1/08.

MS. HEDMAN:

You

have

$55 million

the fund

and

total liability

of 4.2

million.

MR.

ANDES:

I’m

sorry, what

was that?

MS.

HEDMAN:

You

have

$55

million in

the

fund

and

total

liability of

4.2

million;

is that

correct?

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

Also,

in 2008

estimated

million

expenditure.

We had

one incident

this

year alone

where we

had

flood

pumping

station and

it’s

estimated

to cost ten

$15

million. This

for

one

event this year.

can’t predict

these

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 70

things.

It’s like an insurance

fund. And

this is --

MR.

ANDES: And once you’ve hit

the

cap, that’s all you’re

going to

able

put

there.

MS.

MCGEIjLIOTT:

Right.

MS. HEDMAN: And,

typically, in the

past,

though,

you tended

have

balance in

that fund

over the

past

five

years

of around

34 million, is that

correct

MS MCGELLIOTT

Over the last few

years we’ve

been moving

toward the

statutory limit

MS HEDMAN

Adding an

additional

$20 million

that fund

MCGEIJLIOTT

Yes

MR ANDES

Can

you

provide some

detail

on expected expenditures

MS MCGEIJLIOTT

For 2009,

even though

we’re

trying

levy the

max and transfer

any

excess interest into

the reserve claim

fund

reach that

maximum, in 2009 we

don’t

anticipate

that we’re going

to be able

to do

that

We’re not even going

to levy the

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

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Page

Exhibit

162.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

162.

(Document

marked

Exhibit

No.

162

for

identification,

10/28/08.)

MS.

HEDIVIAN:

Mr.

Mastracchio,

I’d

you

turn

MR.

ANDES:

we have

date

this

document?

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

I’m

not

finding

date.

MS.

HEDMAN:

There

publication

date

it,

but

I’m

reliably

informed

that

the

website

indicates

it’s

dated

2003.

MS. WILLIAMS:

And

think

you

can

tell,

like,

the

way

they

their

numbering.

don’t

totally

understand

it,

but

think

where

has

an 03

after

the

Does

that

make

sense?

They

usually

include

the

year

the

numbering.

MS.

HEDMAN:

So I

guess

we’ve

established

that

we’re

looking

the

EPA’s

2003

water

and

wastewater

pricing

overview.

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

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provide

a response

to the earlier

question

about

what

the constraints

are

on its

setting

of property

taxes and

user

fees.

MR.

ETTINGER:

(Inaudible.)

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Albert,

canTt

hear

you at

all.

MR.

ETTINGER:

It wasn

worth

it.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

m not

going

to say

anything.

MS. HEDMAN:

Mr.

Mastracchio,

I think

I have

one final

question

for

you,

and that

MS. WILLIAMS:

it on the same

topic

then?

MS.

HEDMAN:

No.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I mean,

you

want

reconsider

your answer

to the

earlier

question

about

the

basis

for the

limitations

the District

being

from the Clean

Water

Act?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

No.

This

says water

policy

pricing.

The

Clean

Water Act

user

charge

regulations

apply

to wastewater.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

So that’s

a citation

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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happen

at the

same

time.

MR.

ANDES:

you

appropriating

for

things

that

you

were

not

going

to spend

that

year,

but

you were

obligated

spend

later?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

Right.

MS.

HEDMAN:

But

that doesn’t

account

for

the entire

yellow

portion

that?

MR.

ANDES:

I’m

sorry,

yellow?

Your

yellow

you

mean?

The unexpended

appropriations.

MS. MCGELLIOTT:

That

would

for

all

the

funds.

This is

all

funds.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Right.

But

some

the

funds

are

in the

yellow

section

are funds

that

are encumbered

for

the future

years,

but

not

all of

that

money

that

encumbered

for future

years,

some

of it

is just

not

spent;

is that

correct?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

don’t

understand

the question.

MS.

HEDMAN:

moment

ago

you answered

the

question.

You

said

that

some

that

much

that

-- I

don’t

recall

the

phrase

you

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419-9292

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of the

previous year.

DR. GIRARD:

So the ones

that

were

carried over

from

‘07

youTre

saying?

MS.

MCGELLIOTT:

Right.

The capital

improvement

bond

fund is the

only one

we can

do that

way.

DR.

GIRARD:

Thank

you.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Actually, that

raises

one

question

in my mind.

go to

back

your

Attachment

3, Mr.

Mastracchio.

we look

at 2008 what

we’re seeing

there is

projects

totaling

about

$250

million.

Now

would this

just

the

amount

expended

for

that

year and

then

but

would

have been

appropriated

this year

because

projects

started then

would

require

monies in

future years?

MR.

P4ASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MS. HEDMAN:

Okay.

Thank

you.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

believe

that

moves

to the Environmental

Law

and

Policy

Center’s

questions for

Mr.

Mastracchio.

MR. ETTINGER:

I may

wind

changing

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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(Document

marked

Exhibit

No. 163 for

identification,

10/28/08.)

MR.

ETTINGER:

May I

take

Exhibit

163

your answer

my question

number one?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Question

number

two,

how was the

time value

of money

taken into

account in

calculating

the various

capital

costs that are

presumed

your testimony?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

The

cost

estimates

that

were

prepared

CTE

and

expressed

2008

dollars were

escalated

to the

escalated

eight years

out

to the point

construction

using an

escalation

factor.

MR.

ETTINGER:

And what

was

that

escalation

factor?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

used

assumption

3 percent

increase

construction

costs

per

year.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Did

you use

interest

rate number

for

that calculation?

MR.

ANDES:

For which

calculation?

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page 84

what --

MR. ETTINGER:

So you’re counting

2015

the same as

2008 dollar?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

What I’m doing here

is taking the

dollar amount associated

with

the projected capital

costs

in the year of

construction and determining what the

principal and interest payments are assuming

certain financing

terms and interest rates.

That is entirely different than determining

what

discount factor would

compare

alternatives.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Yes.

And that’s what

I’m

trying

to figure

out.

Let’s just use

North Side, which has

figure $10,602,800.

Is that the figure

you

expect

to pay

each

year from the beginning of construction

until

the end of construction?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

No.

That’s the

figure

that

is expected

tO be

paid from the

beginning of the bond amortization term

the end of the bond amortization term, which

we had assumed in here would

be a

25-year

amortization.

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on aggregate

would be longer.

MS. HEDMAN: Are any of the

facilities

that the MWRD operates

older than 25 years

old?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

haven’t looked

that

I don’t

know.

MR.

ANDES: Does the standard policy

use 25 years for an amortization period?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

I think it’s common

for general

obligation bonds

to be

issued

that 25-year range,

yes.

MR. ANDES:

Thank

you.

MR. ETTINGER:

I think

we’ve answered

questions one through four

now. And five,

the answer is 25 years,

correct?

MR. IYIASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MR. ETTINGER:

Six I’m going

withdraw. Seven and eight I believe

have

already been answered.

Nine, can MWRDGC

pay for its

existing capital

plants without an

act

the

state legislature or

referendum after

2016?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

It’s my

understanding that the District’s

authority

L.A. REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page 87

issue

up to $150

million in

non-referendum

bonds

during any

budget

year expires after

2016. So

the extent that the

District

existing capital

plans

beyond 2016 and are

financed with bonds, an

act

state

legislature or

referendum would

required.

MR. ANDES: To extend their current

authority?

MR. ETTINGER:

extend their current

authority?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

That’s correct.

MS. WILLIAMS:

increase that

authority, possibly, right?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Possibly.

MR. ETTINGER:

Looking now

Attachment

3 of your testimony

Figure

3.3,

what does that box 3.3

forecasted

debt

service compared

to debt

service extension

baseline tell

us as to

the years 2016

and

2017?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

What it tells

that the existing capital program excluding

disinfection would result in an

anticipated

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page

debt service amount,

principle -- annual

principal and

interest payment

amount in 2016

that

is higher than the

debt service

extension limitation.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Number

10, can MWRDGC

pay for completion of

the TARP without an

act

of Congress?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

don’t know and I

haven’t

looked

that.

MR. ETTINGER:

Can MWRDGC

complete

TARP without

an act of the

state legislature?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

haven’t looked

all

the costs necessary

to complete TARP.

However,

on Page 5 of

Attachment 7 shows

the

District’s spending plan.

And

the

extent

that that spending plan

includes

TARP

projects that

are sufficient

to complete

TARP, then

the District

does not need an

act

of the

state legislature.

MR. ETTINGER:

Question 12, what

the basis for the

estimated 2.8 billion

estimate of the

cost

MWRDGC if

effluent

nutrient limits

are imposed in

the future?

MR.

ANDES:

That would

Mr. Kuentz.

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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When the question

was raised

what

would it

cost

if the

District had

to go

District-wide

for nutrient

removal?

About

the

only information

we had

hand were

these

cost

comparison

numbers that we

had for

the

master

plan.

We took

those numbers

and

extrapolated

them

per

gallon -- per

million

gallon basis,

dollars

per million

gallons.

Went

up to

the Stickney

Plant

and

then down

the smaller

plants in

size

and

thatTs

how

we came

with

the

numbers.

they

very

rudimentary,

extrapolated

numbers.

MR. ETTINGER:

Did

you

review

a study

that was

done

Dr.

Zeis (sic)

few years

ago

regarding

nutrient

removal

the

Illinois

sewage treatment

plants

in making

your current

estimate?

MR. KUNETZ:

I did

not.

MR. ANDES:

Dr.

Zeis for whom?

MR. ETTINGER:

Our

witness

yesterday.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Zenz.

MR. ETTINGER:

Zenz.

I’m

sorry.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 91

misspoke.

It may

have

affected

your answer

the

question.

Did

you

review

a study that

was

done

Dr. Zenz

in preparing

your estimate

nutrient

costs?

MR. KUNETZ:

did not.

MR.

ANDES:

Is there other

information

that

you

did

review

in assessing

nutrient

costs?

MR. KUNETZ:

I did.

MR. ANDES:

have several

documents

to add to the

record. The

first

one is

entitled

POTW

Nutrient Removal

in Illinois,

Illinois

Association

Wastewater

Agencies

2003

Study

Summary.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Thank

you.

If there is

objection,

we’ll mark

the

document

as described

Exhibit

164. Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

164.

(Document

marked

Exhibit

No. 164 for

identification,

10/28/08.)

MR.

ANDES:

The

second

document is

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

entitled

Analysis

Nutrient Removal

Costs

the

Chesapeake

Bay

Program and

Implications

for the

Mississippi-Atchafalaya,

A-T-C-H-A-F-A-L-A-Y-A,

River Basin

Submitted

Water

Environment

Federation,

the

2008

Weftech

conference

Chicago, Illinois.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

there

no objection,

we’ll

mark the

document

described

as Exhibit

165.

Seeing none,

itTs

Exhibit

165.

(Document

marked as

Exhibit No.

165 for

identification,

10/28/08.)

MR.

ANDES:

The

third document

titled

Public Commentary

Submitted

to the

Science

Advisory

Board, Hypoxia

Advisory

Panel, Draft

Advisory

Report,

submitted

O’Brien

& Gere, G-E-R-E,

September

20th,

2007.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

there

objection,

weT

11 mark

the

document

described

Exhibit 166.

MR.

ETTINGER:

don

object, but I

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

am a little

confused.

Were any of

these

documents

considered

in connection

with your

$2.8

billion

estimate

or are they

simply

documents

that Mr. Andes

has located

that he

thought would

interest on this

subject?

MR.

KUNETZ:

The

documents were

not

used to

derive

the $2.8

million.

One of the

documents

was

used as

check

to see

if that

$2.8 million

in an order

of magnitude

seemed

to be

reasonable.

MR. ETTINGER:

Which

document was

that?

MR. KUNETZ:

Refer

the

Public

Commentary

Submitted

the Science

Advisory

Board, Hypoxia

Advisory

Panel, Draft

Advisory

Report submitted

O’Brien

& Gere,

September

20th,

2007.

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

Which

thereTs

objection,

we 11

mark

that

Exhibit 166.

(Document

marked

Exhibit No.

166 for

identification,

10/28/08.)

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

MR.

ANDES:

believe

one

the other

documents

contain

similar

information

also

from

O’Brien

Gere.

MR. ETTINGER:

I believe

also

that

this

study,

the

Illinois

Association

Wastewater

Agency’s

study,

Exhibit

164,

summary

of the

Zenz

study.

MR.

ANDES:

I believe

that’s

right.

MR.

ETTINGER:

That I

mentioned

earlier.

MR.

ANDES:

Yes.

MR. ETTINGER:

One

last question.

Given

the tightness of

your

ability

raise

money

opposed

-- in

comparison

with

the

current

capital

planning

costs

of the

Water

Reclamation District,

would

it be accurate

say

that

requirement

remove

nutrients

from

MWRD

sewage

treatment

plants

would

also

require

that

the

MWRD

to state

legislature

to get

new

authority?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Yes,

would think

that would

accurate.

MR.

ANDES:

can

follow-up

that?

I believe

this

is Attachment

5 to

the

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

testimony.

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Since this

is already

attachment

his

testimony,

won’t mark

another

exhibit.

It’s

Exhibit 5

Mr.

Mastracchio’s

testimony.

MR. ANDES:

Mr.

Mastracchio,

you

could

explain

what this

exhibit is

about?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

Sure.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

For

those

you

who

can’t

hear, we have

a baby

crying

out

here

so remember

keep your

voices

up.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

This exhibit

shows

the comparison

of the

District’s

forecast

aggregate

levy and

debt service

and

capital

improvement

bond fund

in comparison

to the

tax

cap limitations

and

bonding

authority,

including

tJV

disinfection

costs.

in the

top

chart here,

you can

see

in the orange

are

the

progress

meet

proposed

standards

and the impact

that

they

would have

the

bond fund cash

balance.

The second

chart

shows the

aggregate

levy, excluding

debt

service

and

storm

water

costs

comparison

to the

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

limitation,

which

shows

the

projection

being

higher

than

the

limitation.

And

the third

exhibit

shows

the

debt service,

the

projected

principal

and

interest

payments

associated

with

funding

the

capital

projects

associated

with

the

proposed

disinfection standards

and

in comparison

the annual

debt

service

limitation.

And

shows the

projection

of debt

service

higher

than

that

limitation.

MR. ANDES:

And that

doesn

account

for

additional

nutrient

control

that

Mr.

Ettinger

just

talked

about?

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

does

not.

MR.

ANDES:

That

would

move

the curves

and

numbers

even

higher?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

That

correct.

MR.

ANDES:

And

would

result

exceeding

the

tax

cap limitations earlier?

MR.

f4ASTRACCHIO:

Depending upon

when

that $2.8

billion

would

need

to be

spent,

but

yes.

MR.

ETTINGER:

And

when

does

this

assume

that

work

would

begin

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 97

disinfection?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

When

you say

work,

you mean

construction

of the

projects or

you

mean design?

MR.

ETTINGER:

Anything.

MR. MASTRACCHIO:

We show in here

design starting in

2011, going for

two-and-a-half

years and then construction

starting in 2014 and ending in

2016. And I

think that overall

it’s an eight-year

period.

MR.

ANDES:

And if I ask Mr. Kunetz,

terms of the $2.8 billion nutrient

control, your review of the

OTBrien

& Gere

information report indicates

that number

could

higher?

MR. KUNETZ:

does.

The O

Brien

Gere

report that I referred

earlier

took

look

at the

costs

for attaining

nutrient

limits in the Chesapeake Bay

area that the

cost

of the POTW5 in

the area had

to expend

upgrade their

plants

meet the

limits.

They came

with

a dollars per

gallon

treatment

cost

$8.20 per gallon

per

day treatment

cost.

you multiply that

out

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

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that

strict

since our

petition

was namby

pamby compared

the what EPA

Science

Advisory BOARD

suggested.

MR.

ANDES:

won’t agree

on that,

but...

MR.

ETTINGER:

However,

I would ask,

again, with

regard

exhibit --

this is

Exhibit

Mr.

Mastracchio’s

testimony,

that

correct,

this document

that

you now have

here?

MR. ANDES:

Attachment

MR.

ETTINGER:

As I understand

it,

Exhibit

5-3 indicates

that

you would have

go to

the

state legislature

before 2014

avoid

exceeding

your

debt service

limitations;

that

correct?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

Yes.

MR.

ETTINGER:

if we

build

the

disinfection,

we have

to go before 2014.

we don’t,

have

to go to

the legislature

2016?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I think

that’s

correct.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Thank

you.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

100

MR.

ANDES:

If the disinfection

facilities

had

to be

built

not in 2016,

but

as proposed

in the

regulation

in 2011,

that

would move

everything

considerably;

am I

right?

MR.

IVIASTRACCHIO:

Yes,

it would.

MR.

ANDES:

you added

in the 16

billion

in nutrient

controls

having

be built in

the same

relevant time

frame,

that

would

move everything

-- assuming

that

was

some time during

this

time

period

that

the money

had

be expended, would

move

all these

numbers

and probably

hasten

the time

when

you

have

to go to the

legislature?

MR.

MASTRACCHIO:

I would

agree with

that,

yes.

MR. ETTINGER:

Now we’re talking

about

wildest dreams.

have no further

questions.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Does

anyone

else?

Ms. Hedman.

MS. HEDMAN:

have

one

question

and this

may

be -

yesterday

we went through

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

101

attachment

your

testimony

that

listed

non-master

plan

projects;

MR.

KUNETZ:

Yes.

MS.

HEDMAN:

that

correct?

And

you said

that’s

something

that

you

prepare

annually?

MR.

KUNETZ:

Yes.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Actually,

following

a question,

the Commissioner

asked

about

the

large

increase

in projects

that

occurred

appropriations that

occurred

2008.

MR.

KUNETZ:

Okay.

MS.

HEDMAN:

Would

you

be able

-- and

you

may

not

able

tell

me now.

But

not,

could

you

prepare

an exhibit

that

would

show

the total

amount

projects

the

non-master

plan

list

for

each

year

from,

say,

2004

to the

present,

2005

the

present?

believe

that’s

when

the first

master

plan

was

completed.

MR.

KUNETZ:

Yes,

it’s

possible.

MS.

HEDMAN:

That would

very

helpful.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Anything

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page

120

the Chicago

River

to the

junction

with the

Cal-Sag

Channel,

the entire

Calumet-Sag

Channel,

the

Chicago

River

and

the South

Fork

the South

Branch

the Chicago

River,

which

is referred

Bubbly

Creek,

designated

for

non-contact

recreation

and

that

the requirement

disinfect

removed

unsupported.

Respectfully

submitted,

Tom

Granato.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Thank

you.

believe

we start

with

the

IEPA.

MR.

ANDES:

you

need

a copy

of the

testimony?

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

No, that’s

okay.

He’s

read

won’t

mark

as an

exhibit.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Good

afternoon,

Dr.

Granato.

I’m

going

start

with

pre-filed

questions

and

those

questions

are

broken

into

aquatic

life

uses

first

and

then

recreational,

so for

the

benefit

of the

court

reporter

it’s

Page

29 of

our

pre—filed

questions

where

the

recreational

use

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

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Page

122

MS. WILLIAMS:

the

Board

were

wait

for

the

CHEERS

study

completed,

how

long

would

that

delay

this

rulemaking?

MR.

ANDES:

Well,

answer

that

doesn’t

need

know

how

long

it’s

going

take

regardless

that?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I’m

just

asking

him

when

the

CHEERS

study

will

completed.

MR.

GRANATO:

can

tell

you

when

will

be.

are

anticipating

completed

the

year

2010

around

mid

year.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

this

rulemaking

still

going

2010,

won’t

delay

all?

MR.

ANDES:

There

you

go.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

Great.

That’s

reassuring.

MR.

ANDES:

Glad

help.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

On Page

you

state

that

the

Agency,

quote,

requested

that

the

District

undertake

and

support

structured

scientific

assessment approach

designed

evaluate

the

need

and,

necessary,

provide

the

basis

for

generating

numeric

water

L.A.

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129

occurring

the

places

that they

are

observing,

but they’re

not making

effort

observe

every

reach

of the system,

are

they?

MR.

GRANATO:

Well,

they’re

going

out

all

the major

points

of entry,

recreational

points

of entry

where

there is

significant

volume

use.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

you know if

they’re

observing

anywhere

on the Sanitary

and

Ship

Canal?

MR. ANDES:

think we’ll

have

back

Dr.

Dorevitch’s

testimony.

MR.

GRANATO:

I’m

not

certain.

They

probably

have,

but

don’t

think it’s

regular --

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

recall

-- you’ve

been here

for

most

of the

testimony?

MR.

GRANATO:

Yes,

have.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

you recall

when

Dr.

Dorevitch

testified

he never

heard

the

boat

launches

at Western

Avenue?

MR.

GRANATO:

I don’t

recall

that.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Let’s

flip back

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134

give.

MR. GRANATO:

Just some general

information.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

And I’ll

withhold follow-up

probably for him.

MR. GRANATO:

Just to

give some

examples, when we drawdown

the system,

drawdown occurs

by increasing flow

the

Lockport Lock

and Dam, and the drawdown

then

proceeds

the waterway

to the east and

north. Elevation

changes can

be as

great

seven feet and

water velocity changes in

terms of

-- water velocity in terms of

feet

per

second can increase

factors of

seven-and-a-half times during the drawdown

event.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

MR. ANDES:

And how

does

that

-- is

there an

indication of what kind of

velocity

changes

are signific&nt for recreators?

MS. WILLIAMS:

What is the

normal

velocity?

HEARING

OFFICER TIPSORD:

We have

question.

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 135

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Can I -- well, go

ahead. That’s fine.

MR. ANDES:

I had

asked about

what

kind of velocity changes can

significant

for recreators.

MR. GRANATO:

Well, there’s

guidance

USGS, which basically

states

that peak

depth times velocity, depth in feet, velocity

in feet per second should

less than

10 square feet per second for safe wading and

recreational conditions.

MR. ANDES:

in some of these

situations would

you be

over that?

MR. GRANATO:

I believe we would,

yes,

considering the depths and velocities.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Can

you

give

the

title or the number or something

that

publication?

MR. ANDES:

We can provide that.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

know if the

USGS

document is talking

about a

natural river

system or not? I mean, do

you

know? Did

you

review it yourself?

MR. GRANATO:

I did not review it in

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

136

depth,

no.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

Would

Dr.

Meiching

be able

discuss that

document

is that

unrelated,

because I don’t

recall

that

coming

in his

testimony?

MR. ANDES:

I think

was

dealing

with the

characteristics

the water

body,

but

don’t think

particularly

with respect

safety

but

we’ll

check.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Maybe I

should ask

this point

where did

you come

up -- how

did

you find

out

there was

such

USGS

document?

MR. GRANATO:

I became aware

its

use

in other UAA5

with

bacteria being

used in

other

UAA5.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

That

may

helpful

to answer

some of

these later

questions.

What UAA5

are

you

referring

to?

MR.

GRANATO:

Specifically,

the

Mississippi

River

UAA

being conducted

St.

Louis. I

believe

others have

used it

well,

but...

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I’ll

go back

other

question, can

you help

with

the what

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(312)

419-9292

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Page 139

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

MR. ANDES:

Were

you

asking

about --

I’m sorry,

need

clarify

something.

But

in the

first part

of that question

are

you

asking

whether

the District

would prohibit

swimming

in the water

bodies?

MS. WILLIAMS:

The

second

part

the

question?

Wait, what

question

are

you

talking

about?

MR.

ANDES:

I’m

talking

about

the

first part of

your

question.

Were

you

asking

whether

the District

could

directly

prohibit

certain

activities

in the

water

body?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

The first

part of

the

question

asks

they have

policy.

That

was the

question I think

he answered

that

he’s not

aware of

policy.

MR. ANDES:

And

you were talking

about

prohibiting

certain

activities

in the

actual

reaches?

ITm

not sure that

would

their

jurisdiction,

but

okay. Go

ahead.

MS. WILLIAMS:

I don’t

know

MR. ETTINGER:

Let’s

hope the record

is getting

Mr. Andes’

statement

that

these

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 140

are not

the District’s

water

bodies.

MR. ANDES:

I’m trying

clarify

the

question.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you want me

ask

him another

question

that he

already

answered?

MR. ANDES:

No.

ahead.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I lost track

of where

we are. I

think

you

were

just

saying

that

you don’t

believe the

Summit Avenue

boat

launch is accessible

to the public;

is that

correct?

MR.

GPJ.NATO:

That’s

right.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Can

ask

follow-up

question?

MWRD,

though,

does

hold

a number

of leases

where

municipalities

and

others have

put

boat launches

accessing

the CAWS; is.that

correct?

MR.

GRANATO:

believe

so.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

fact,

you’ve

got

Clark

Park

as one;

is that

correct?

MR. GPANATO:

I’m

not familiar

with

all the

District

leases,

but...

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you familiar

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 141

with--

MR.

GRANATO:

I think

Mr. Lanyon

testified

some

that,

yes.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Thank

you.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Are

you

familiar with

the

lease that was

entered

as Exhibit

83 for

the Ronan

Park?

MR.

GRANATO:

Not very

familiar,

no.

MS. WILLIAMS:

When

you

said you’re

familiar

with

Mr.

Lanyon’s testimony

about

the leases,

you

recall

-- what

was

your

understanding

of the District’s

testimony

whether

or not

the

lease

specified

what

type

of activity

would

be occurring?

MR. GRANATO:

recollection

that

they don’t

specify

-- they don’t

restrict

the

uses.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

And

is it your

understanding

when the

District

enters into

lease for recreational

uses, though,

they’re

aware

that they’ll

used for

boat launches?

MR. GRANATO:

I really

don’t know.

I’m not

involved

in that

all.

don’t

know

what

point

they become

aware of

it,

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

142

whether

it’s

during

the formulation

of the

lease

or following

the

completion

of the

transaction.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you have a

follow-up,

ahead.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

I was

wondering

you’re

aware of whether

or not

District’s

employees

actually

go out

the

sites that

are anticipated

be used as

launch

sites

and

inspect

them with

interested

parties?

Are

you

aware

of that

occurring?

MR. ANDES:

Are

you

speaking

before

the

leasing occurs?

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

That

is correct.

MR.

GRANATO:

No, I’m not

aware

that.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Mr.

Granato,

I’m

showing

you a

document

that’s previously

been

entered

into the

record

Exhibit

83. Have

you

seen this

document before?

MR.

GRANATO:

I don’t

think

so.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

would

just

you

read

from one portion

this document.

I’m handing

you a

page

of this

exhibit

that’s

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

143

dated

July 13th,

2000,

the honorable

president

and

members

of the

Board

Commissioners

the

Metropolitan

Water

Reclamation

District

of Greater

Chicago.

I’d

you

read

from

the first

item

that

says “ordered

MR.

ANDES:

This

is dated

July

13th,

2000.

MR.

GRANATO:

Okay.

Ordered,

that

amendment

of lease

with

the Chicago

Park

District

dated

April

12th,

1962,

approximately

.36 acres

land

for the

construction

and

maintenance

a boat

launch

and

river

walk

along the

west

bank

the

North

Branch

the

Chicago

River,

north

Argyle

Street

Chicago,

Illinois,

B, and

the

same is

hereby

authorized

and

approved.

MS.

WILLIA1’4S:

just

wanted

that

piece

of that

exhibit

read

into

the

record.

Thank

you.

MR.

ANDES:

If I can

follow-up

that?

Dr. Granato,

did that

say

anything

about

what

kind

boats were

going

used at

the

boat

launch?

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

144

MR.

GRANATO:

I don’t believe

so.

MR.

ANDES:

Anything

about

hand-powered

boats?

MR.

GRANATO:

don’t believe

so.

MR. ANDES:

Thank

you.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Did it specify

power

boats either?

MR. GRANATO:

don’t believe

so.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you

aware

whether

or not

Clark Park and

River

Park

are

used

for hand-powered

boating?

MR. GRANATO:

I’m

not

aware

firsthand,

but I believe

they

are,

yes.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Can

you

launch

power

boat

from

those

locations?

MR. GRANATO:

I don’t

know.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I think

Subsection

there in

question

four

asks

whether the

District

has authority

restrict

these

recreational

activities,

meaning

hand-powered

boating.

MR.

GRANATO:

That

sounds

a legal

question.

don’t have

an answer

for it.

don’t

know.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page 147

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Let’s

slow

down.

Can

you

back again?

MR.

GRANATO:

Sure.

Basically,

itTs

UAA

on the Mississippi

River

found that

heavy

barge

traffic

posed

hazard

whole

body

contact

recreation.

And the

Missouri

Clean

Water

Commission

adopted this

finding in

their

state

Rule 1OCSR20—7031.

MR. ANDES:

And

we have

a disk with

copy of the

Use Attainability

Analysis

document for

the

Mississippi

River

dated

July

2005.

MR.

ETTINGER:

that for

the

entire

Mississippi

River

in Missouri

or some

segments

of it?

MR.

ANDES:

believe

some segments.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Thank

you.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

there’s

objection,

we’ll

mark

the CD

described

Exhibit

167.

Seeing none,

it’s

Exhibit

167.

(Document

marked

Exhibit

No.

167

for

identification,

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 148

10/28/08.)

MS.

WILLIAMS:

you

know,

Dr. Granato,

whether

EPA

approved this

UAA-

GRANATO

I dont

know

MS WILLIAMS

-- one

way or another

GRANATO

I don’t know

MS WILLIAMS

That’s

fine

And

you

know

-- I

guess

before

move on, are

you going

move on

different

location

MR. GRANATO:

Yes.

WILLIAMS

Okay

Before

that,

do you know

whether

Missouri found

it was whole

body

contact

you

called it

recreation

occurring

the

reaches

that

were

addressed

MR GRANATO

I don’t

recall if that

was

found

WILLIAMS

Okay

Go ahead

MR GRANATO

The

Alabama

Department

Environmental

Management

conducted

UAA

on the

Mobile

River

in Alabama

after

designating

limited

warm water fishery.

The Alabama

Department

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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from it,

let

mark it

as Exhibit 168

there’s

objection.

Seeing

none,

it’s

Exhibit

168.

(Document

marked

Exhibit

No. 168

for

identification,

10/28/08.)

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Now if

you

wouldn’t mind

reading

from

Exhibit

168.

MR.

GRANATO:

Okay.

I’m

reading

from

Page

9, the

bottom of

Page

with

respect

swimming.

The

ADEM,

which

the Alabama

Department

Environmental

Management,

believes

this

portion of the

Mobile

River

not

suitable for

swimming

or other

recreation

involving

incidental

water contact

due

to its

location

and

use

within

such

heavily

industrialized

area

of Mobile.

addition,

the

consistent

barge

vessel

traffic

associated

with the

intensive

industrial

activity

creates

an unsafe

setting

for swimming

within

this

portion

of the

Mobile

River,

therefore, the

more stringent

bacteriological

criteria

for

seasonal

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

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Page 156

rather than the water

quality preclude the

use.

MS. WILLIAMS: And

they determined

that the

use

could

not occur, correct, would

preclude

the use?

MR. GRANATO:

Could

not occur?

MS. WILLIAMS:

And was not occurring.

Isn’t it

correct that they determined

the

use

was

not occurring under the

conditions

described?

MR.

GRANATO:

I’m not sure

about that.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

MR. ANDES:

I would note

that that

particular UAA was referenced

in Ms. Nemura’s

testimony

as to

Ballona Creek

in California.

And

as to

Presque Isle Bay

and the Delaware

River, we’ll

provide links

the

relevant

documents.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Can I follow-up

with

couple

of questions?

MS. WILLIAMS:

Sure.

MR. ETTINGER:

Did

you

look for any

instances in

which UAA5 were proposed

remove

recreational

uses

and they

weren’t

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

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Page 160

about

places

where outside of this --

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Ask the

second question.

MS. WILLIAMS:

So here I’m asking can

safety

factors

be used to

eliminate

designation of existing recreational uses

that term is understood

laypersons?

MR. GRANATO:

Can they

be?

I think

they can, yes.

MS. WILLIAMS:

You think they can be?

MR. GRANATO:

Yes.

MS. WILLIAMS:

And your answer

wouldn’t

be any

different if I

used

“may”

instead of “can,”

would

it?

May they

be?

I’m not sure I’m an expert on this

“may”

and

“can” thing.

MR. GRANATO:

I think they are being.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

But

you didn’t

give any examples of

where

you’re aware

that

the use was existing

from what

you provided,

right?

MR. GRANATO:

Well, these may

examples of it. I’m

just

not aware.

MS. WILLIAMS:

But

you

don’t know?

L.A. REPORTING (312) 419-9292

Page 161

MR. GRANATO:

Right.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

So you

can’t

say

that

it is being done,

though, can you, if

you

don’t know?

MR.

ANDES: Or that it isn’t.

MR. GRANATO:

When

I said that it is

being done, I was

talking

about

the common

sense arena,

not the clean water arena.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

So you mean

there are areas where

the

coast

guard will

say

don’t

go here

because

it’s unsafe?

MR.

GRANATO:

Right.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

understand.

MR. GRANATO:

Is there

any overlap

between the common sense

arena and the Clean

Water Act?

MR. ETTINGER:

No.

We solved that.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I would like

to find it

if there

is some,

yes.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

ms. Williams, if you’re ready

move on,

it’s 1:00 o’clock and

we obviously have

least probably

another 30

40 minutes

your

questions and Openlands,

well,

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

162

let’s

go ahead

and take

a lunch break

and

come

back in

about an hour.

(Whereupon,

after

break

was

had, the following

proceedings

were

held

accordingly.)

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Good

afternoon.

Welcome

back from

lunch.

Due

emergency,

we’re

going

switch

from

the

IEPA’s

questions

the

questions

from

Openlands

that we

can hopefully

get

Ms. Meyers

her way.

So with

that,

we’ll switch

Openlands’

questions.

And I

apologize

for

any

inconvenience,

but this is

beyond

her

control.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Thank

you.

appreciate

your

allowing

the switch.

Thank

you

very

much.

If we

could

start

with

the

pre-filed

questions.

Since

I’m

running

short

time,

I might

try

to summarize

few

these questions

can

move

through

them

and

skip

few.

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

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Page

166

the

Cal-Sag Channel,

correct?

MR.

GRANATO:

That’s

correct.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

And that

was,

part,

because

your concern

about

barge

traffic;

that

right?

MR. GRANATO:

That’s in

part because

of that,

yes.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you

familiar

with

sculling

teams and

the practice

competing in

regattas

on the Cal-Sag?

MR.

GRANATO:

don’t know if

I’m

familiar

with

them. I’m

aware that

that’s

occurring,

yes.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you

aware

of the

Big Ten

Women’s regatta

where

approximately

300 athletes

compete on

the

Cal-Sag

Channel?

MR. GRANATO:

I believe I

have

heard

that,

yes.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

And have

you heard

of any

injuries

being sustained

from

commercial

barge

tour

boat traffic

from

sculling

teams

practicing?

MR.

GRANATO:

No, I don’t

think

so.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

How

about people

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

167

that kayak

canoe

in that

area?

MR. GRANATO:

On the

Cal-Sag

Channel?

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

That’s

correct.

MR. GRANATO:

No, I

don’t

think

have.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

And

how much

commercial

barge

traffic

occurs

north

Goose Island?

MR.

GRANATO:

North

Goose

Island,

can’t

say

I can

quantify

it,

but

I’m aware

that

exists.

I have

seen

in every

aerial

photograph

I’ve

looked

on internet

see

barges

in the

water

north of

Goose

Island

about

Webster.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Beyond

Webster?

MR.

GRANATO:

Not

too

much,

no.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Not

too

much.

How

much

would

you

say

occurs

beyond

Webster?

MR.

GRANATO:

I can’t

really

quantify.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you

familiar

with

tours that

routinely

occur

the

Chicago

River

and Bubbly

Creek

that

do not

result

injuries

from

barges

or commercial

boats?

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 168

MR. GRANATO:

Can

you

repeat that?

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Sure.

Are

you

familiar --

MR. GRANATO:

Which

number

is that,

the way?

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

5(A).

HEARING OFFICER

TIPSORD:

I don’t

have

5(A).

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

I’m sorry, I

didnTt

file this question. It’s

follow-up.

MR. GRANATO:

I’m sorry,

just

repeat

it.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Sure.

Are

you

familiar with the fact that there are tours

that routinely occur on the Chicago River

and

Bubbly Creek that

not result in

injuries

from barges

commercial

boats?

MR. GRANATO:

Tours?

I mean, I don’t

know what

you

mean

tours.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Sure.

Hand-powered

boat

tours such

canoes and kayaks.

MR. GRANATO:

No,

I’m not aware of it.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Are

you

familiar

with the

Windy City Kayak Symposium that

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

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substantiate

this statement?

MR. GRANATO:

No,

‘t

cite

statistics.

I’m

summarizing

Dr. Blatchley’s

testimony.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

So --

MR.

GRANATO:

At this

time, I cannot.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Dr. Blatchley

testimony,

not Dr.

Gerba’s

testimony.

MR.

GRANATO:

Well, Dr.

Gerba also

addressed

this,

yes.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

you

recall

if either

of them cited

to studies

or statistics?

MR.

GRANATO:

No,

I don’t believe

they

cited

studies.

They cited

personal

information.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

you

have any

information

regarding

the popularity

various water

recreation

activities

any

other

country

relative

the United

States?

MR. GRANATO:

I don’t

have

lot of

specific

information,

but

know

that

water

recreation

very

popular in other

countries.

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173

risks to

recreators

in those

water

bodies

the

way

we’re

doing

in the

CAWS,

I would

say

the

same

process

should

undertaken

there

address

that

question.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

And

do you

think

the

disinfection

needed

for the

City

Milwaukee?

MR.

GRANATO:

I’m

not

that familiar

with

the

I’m not

that

familiar

with

MilwaukeeTs

receiving

water

and

uses

water.

MS. MEYERS-GLEN:

Okay.

MR.

GRANATO:

I can’t

answer

that.

MS.

MEYERS-GLEN:

Thank

you.

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

Thank

you

very

much.

Let’s

return

then

the

IEPA

and

we were

on their

pre-filed

question

number

five,

I believe.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Page

Paragraph

of your

testimony

you

recommend,

quote,

the

following

waterways

be designated for

non-contact

recreation

contrary

to the

proposed

standards;

the Chicago

Sanitary

and

Ship

Canal

from

the South

Branch

the

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175

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

want

tell

which

ones

you

don’t

you

agree

with?

MR.

GRANATO:

don’t

agree

with

North

Branch

Chicago

River

below

Webster

Avenue,

South

Branch

Chicago

River.

These

are

the

ones

donTt

agree

with.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

That’s

fine.

MR.

GRANATO:

Calumet

River,

Lake

Calumet,

it’s

connecting

channel.

MR.

ANDES:

And

then?

MR.

GRANATO:

Oh,

yeah,

and Upper

Dresden

Island

Pool,

comments

were

limited

the

CAWS.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

you’re

not

expressing

opinion

the

Upper

Dresden

Island

Pool?

MR.

GRANATO:

Right.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

What

think

I would

understand,

Dr.

Granato,

when

Ms. Meyers-Glen

was

asking

you

questions

you

said

you

believe

you

said,

and

tell

this

not

correct,

that

you

think

the

heaviest

barge

traffic

not

necessarily

occurring

the

same

place

the

heaviest

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179

CSOs and other

discharges.

Can

you

just

explain

whose

testimony youre

relying

on for this

statement

what

study or

-- what

is the

basis for this

statement

in your testimony?

MR.

GRANATO: Well,

the basis

of this

stems

primarily

from the

Geosyntec

risk

study

and their

testimony, all

of the sampling

and

analytical

data

that

they entered

into the

record.

MS. WILLIAMS:

just

want

understand

that

youtre

relying

on what

Geosyntec

entered

into the

record, not the

work performed

Dr. Rijal

entered into

the

District

studies.

MR. GRANATO:

Well, basically,

Dr. Rijal’s

work was a

fecal coliform

study

which

did not specifically

look

pathogens.

MS. WILLIAMS:

Okay.

Question

eight,

you

testify on

Page 4 that,

quote,

the weight

of scientific

evidence

against

the

proposed

400

fecal coliform

CFU per

100 milliliter

effluent standard

is clear

and overwhelming.

I’m going

skip A for now

and

L.A.

REPORTING

(312) 419-9292

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Page

181

can pull

number

out

of thin

air.

I think

you

have

assess

the

risk

that’s

occurring

from

exposure

the

pathogens

in the

system.

And if

that risk

already

below

acceptable

levels,

which

appears

in this

system,

I wouldn’t

recommend limit.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

You wouldn’t

recommend

any

limit

determine if disinfection

occurring

properly?

MR.

GRANATO:

would say

disinfection

is not

necessary.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

But

I’m talking

about

at a

facility

where

disinfection

being

practiced,

does

400

CFTJ

per

100 milliliters

effectively

guarantee

that

it’s

occurring

properly?

MR.

GRANATO:

Well,

I think

really

depends

on the

basis

for

the

disinfection.

other words,

what’s

the

purpose

for

disinfecting? Is it

disinfecting

meet

water

quality

standard,

which

400 would

allow

you

meet?

Are

you

disinfecting

to provide

certain

level

of risk?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

So do

you

disagree

with

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

182

the testimony

that we

heard previously

that

says you

either kill

all

nothing

then?

MR.

ANDES:

I don

remember

that

being

testimony

of anybody.

you

have

anybody

particular

mind?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Did

you

hear

anybody

testify

that?

Mr. Lanyon,

that was

who I

was thinking

of.

MR.

GRANATO:

That

you

kill

all

nothing?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

ItT

all

or nothing.

But,

also

Mr. Lanyon was

the first

one

say

it.

But

also

yesterday

MR. ANDES:

Can

you

cite

statement

that

effect?

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I dont

have

front of me.

I mean,

yes,

itTs

in the

transcript.

MR.

ANDES:

Well,

you’re asking

him

agree

disagree

with

the statement.

don’t

recall anybody

saying

it.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

I can

ask him

if he

agrees or

disagrees

that

you killall

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 183

nothing, right?

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Yeah, I

think

she can ask that.

MR. GRANATO:

I don’t think that’s

true,

you

kill

all or nothing. I mean, there

are--

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

remember

yesterday when we were talking

about

the

design --

MR. GRANATO:

Yes.

MS. WILLIAMS:

-- of the system.

MR. GRANATO:

Certainly.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

And it was said that

you

would

design the same system

treat for

a 2,000 water quality standard

as to

treat

for a 200 water quality standard?

MR. GRANATO:

Yes, I recall that.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

agree with

that?

MR. ANDES:

Weren’t the numbers

yesterday

1,000 and

400?

MS. WILLIAMS:

One of the numbers was

2,700,

but

another one was 1,000 and,

yes,

400.

MR. ETTINGER:

suggest

we not

argue

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Page 186

criteria, which are

used

every beach and

every primary

contact venue in the country.

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

think --

MR. GRANATO:

And we’re trying

rush

through

this and --

MS. WILLIAMS:

you think the study

that’s being

conducted is going

tell

what indicator

organism could

be used

for

setting an ambient water quality standard?

MR. GRANATO:

think it could,

yes.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

How?

MR.

GRANATO:

Same way all the other

epidemiologic studies

do.

MR. ANDES:

I think Dr. Dorevitch

explained that.

MS. WILLIAMS:

I don’t

think he did.

I don’t think he explained

that

a study would

accomplish

that. I’m tryingto

understand --

MR.

ANDES:

I think he answered

that

question and actually said that it would

form

a basis for

water quality standard.

MS. WILLIAMS:

I’m not

going

to argue

about

what he said.

I’m

going

skip on

the

last

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Page

193

MS.

WILLIAMS:

You don’t

mean

swimming

within

the

actual

pipe

itself?

MR.

GRANATO:

No.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Is it

your opinion

that

disinfection

should

not

used

plants

discharging

general-use

waters

generally?

MR.

GRANATO:

No.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Okay.

MR.

ANDES:

your

can

you

explain

that

little

bit

more?

MS. WILLIAMS:

you

want

him

explain

more.

I’m fine

move on.

But

you

want

him

explain

more...

MR.

ANDES:

No.

Let’s

on.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Question

12,

explain

what

you

mean

when

you

say

Page

HEARING

OFFICER

TIPSORD:

You

asked

this one

already,

Ms.

Williams.

MS.

WILLIAMS:

Thank

you.

Sorry.

Question

13,

you

testify

Page

5, Paragraph

3, quote,

the

proposed

effluent

standard

could

not

attained

in the

CAWS.

effluent

standard’s

attainment

not

measured

the

stream,

is it,

fact,

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

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Page 195

not---

MS.

WILLIAMS:

And not whether

technology is feasible

and available and

economical?

MR. GRANATO:

Right.

Or where

should

determined

how compliance should

determined.

MS. WILLIAMS:

What

about

effluent

limits like BOD and

suspended solids? Should

we have

not required those when there were

fish that could live or very, very few

fish

that could live in the CAWS?

(Whereupon,

a discussion

was

had off the record.)

MS. WILLIAMS:

Let him answer.

don’t think --

MR. ANDES:

I think I’m allowed

talk

him.

MS. WILLIAMS:

But

I don’t want him

forget my question

again and have

have

read back.

MR. GRANATO:

I’ll try

to remember.

think you’re getting into

a lot of legal

questions and I’m not

really --

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Page 206

from MWRD

plants?

MR. ANDES:

You mean treatment or

you

mean other

things?

MR. ETTINGER: Way of treating the

pollutants in

the broadest possible way,

including shooting them

the moon, wetlands

treatment --

MR. GRANATO:

Well, there has been

suggestion of

MR. ETTINGER:

-- prohibiting the

use

of phosphorous

on lawns.

MR.

GRANATO:

-- about trying

incur

vegetarian diets in the District.

MR. ETTINGER:

That would

something,

too.

just

want

know

about

the District’s efforts

consider

that

problem in the

broadest sense.

MR. GRANATO:

The District has

undertaken initial

steps to

look

that.

MR. ETTINGER:

What are those

steps?

MR. GRANATO:

The District has

worked

with some outside agencies

to assess

feasibility

of nutrient farming, we’ve done

some preliminary studies

look

potential

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

207

use of treated

wetlands

the Calumet

area,

for

possibly

treating

portion

of the

Calumet plant

effluent.

And

there’s some

work underway

look

at establishing

treatment

wetlands

in the

vicinity

of the

Lemont plant.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Have

you

looked

areas

in the

area what

weTve

described

the

Upper Dresden

Island

Pool

for creation

wetlands?

MR. GRANATO:

I’m

not clear

off the

top

of my head,

Albert,

about where

the

sites

are

relation

to that. I’d

have

to --

MR.

ETTINGER:

m not

either,

so what

sites have

you considered

terms of

potential

wetland treatment

nitrogen

and

phosphorus?

MR. GRANATO:

don’t know

if I

could

even

name them all

for

you without

getting

confused.

this point, I’d

have

to go

back.

MR.

ANDES:

can provide

the

information.

MR. ETTINGER:

I don’t

want

you

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page 208

give

me any

information you’re not

comfortable

giving me.

Just, generally,

what

do you recall of what

you’re considering

that respect.

MR. GRANATO: Well,

there’s -- I

don’t

want

give

you misinformation.

MR.

ETTINGER:

I’m going

to show

you

what has

been marked

as IEPA Attachment I-I,

believe,

their

original petition. I’m

just

going

to show this

to you and ask

you

you know of any place along

this in which

you’re considering using

some sort of

wetland

treatment or wetland

restoration for

addressing nitrogen

or phosphorus issues?

MR. ANDES:

And this is anywhere

the CAWS?

MR.

ETTINGER:

anywhere all the

way

down

to the 1-55 bridge.

Are

you

aware

anywhere that relates

to the proceeding

that

we’re having here

today?

MR. GRANATO:

I’m not sure,

Albert.

MR.

ETTINGER:

Okay.

You’re allowed

to say “I don’t know.”

That’s a perfectly

legitimate question. Do

you know who

at the

L.A.

REPORTING (312)

419-9292

Page

209

District would know?

MR. ANDES: We can probably find

out.

MR. GRANATO:

I mean,

it’s not

that

to give

you

the information. I

-- at

this time I don’t think I

to you accurately sitting here

don’t

want

just don’t

can convey

right now.

MR. ETTINGER:

And

you

don’t know who

would have the information,

we’ll have

ask somebody

else.

MR. ANDES: We can find

out

who it is.

MR. ETTINGER:

Thank

you.

I’m done.

HEARING OFFICER TIPSORD:

Any other

questions for Dr. Granato? Let’s

off

the

record for

just a

very quick

brief moment.

(Whereupon, after a short

break was had, the

following

proceedings

were held accordingly.)

HEARING OFFICER. TIPSORD:

Back on

the

record. I want

thank

you all for your

time and

attention. On November 17th we’ll

start

with

Dr. Meiching and hopefully maybe

get to

Dr. Mackey. If not, we’ll talk

to him

L.A. REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

210

Des

Plaines

December.

Thank

you

all for

your

time

and

attention,

appreciate

it.

Again,

appreciate

your

courtesy

one

another

and

let’s

keep

the

good

work

and

we’ll

see

you

all

November 17th.

Thank

you.

We’re

adjourned.

(Which

were

all

the

proceedings

had

the

above-entitled

cause

this

date.)

L.A.

REPORTING

(312)

419-9292

Page

211

SUBSCRIBED AND

SWORN

before

this

day

iI7JL4k1&,

A.D.,

2008.

TAMARA.

MANGANIELLO,

CSR,

RPR

License

No.

084-004560

STATE

ILLINOIS

COUNTY

WILL

Tamara

Manganiello,

CSR,

RPR,

hereby

certify

that

reported

shorthand

the

proceedings

held

the

foregoing

cause,

and

that

the

foregoing

true,

complete

and

correct

transcript

the

proceedings

appears

from

stenographic

notes

taken

and

transcribed

under

personal

direction.

tary’

Public

OFFICIAL

SEAL

DIANA

LEVERSO

Notary

Public

- State

Illinois

ConmlSSlOfl

Expires

17,

2009

Page

212

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Page 213

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52:11 53:1,2

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125:17

128:9,10,14

151:2,6 153:21

196:6 201:3

appropriated

76:10

78:5,10

78:18 80:15

appropriately

125:4

appropriateness

118:16

201:16

appropriating

77:2

appropriation

26:23

79:2

appropriations

76:6

77:11

79:1 101:11

approve 9:14

approved

143:17 148:3

149:7

approximately

46:5 104:19

143:12

166:15

April 143:11

153:

aquatic

104:16

120:21

133:18

133: 19

arbitrarily

48:18

arbitrary

118:21

area 1:3 3:7

11:14 42:4

56:20 97:19,20

105:4 106:1,9

109:20 114:9

149:5

150:18

163:5 164:16

164:18

167:1

188:20

207:1,8

areas

6:19

105:22 130:17

13 1:9,12

145:19,24

161:10

163

:3,4

163:6

176:20

198:2,7

207:8

arena 161:8,8,15

argue 183 :24

186:22

Argyle

143:16

around 11:11,12

38:10 70:9

122:11

arrive

191:9

articles

105:19

asked 4:17

7:9

26:21 28:2,6

34:13,19 40:21

49:10 52:13,16

64:17

65:23

101:9

108:24

135:3

157:16

157:19 158:8

193:17 201:23

asking29:16

41:3 52:13

53:1,1

60:19

60:22 83:24

122:7 139:2,5

139:11 158:2

159:5

160:4

175:20

182:20

196:4

asks 17:18 121:3

133:1

138:15

139:15 144:18

174:18

aspect 176:2

assess 181:2

187:9 206:22

assessed

43:13

44:14,17,24

55:11

assessing

91:8

123:9

125:3

assessment

105:21

107:14

108 :2,6, 10,

108:23 109:4

111: 19,22

112:8

113:18

117:5

121:13

122:22

123:4,7

127:5

172:24

192:1

assets 37:18

63:3 78:19

assist

107:19

assistant

103 :23

104: 10

assisting 6:4

assists 66:17

associated

15:11

29:2 84:5

96:5

96:6

106:8

107:9

109:13

112:3 114:15

115:8

117:6,16

127:1 150:20

154:7

169:12

197:11,14,24

Association

50:23 91:14

94:5

assume

24:20

37:7

43:16

81:19

96:24

133:14

145:3

assumed 9:24

11:4 21:2,7

84:23

85:6,9

89:15

98:14

assuming

10:23

84:8 85:2

100: 10

assumption

82:20

assumptions

11:6 106:5

192:2,5,6

assure 106:22

athletes

166:16

attached

22:1

attachment

9:22

19: 12,19,23

20:3 42:1,8

43:4 56:17

58:21 75:7,14

80:10 87:17

88:14

94:24

95:3 99:11

101:1

208:8

attain 197:1

Attainability

105:5 147:10

149:11

attainable

115:1

123:17

attained

113:15

128:15

155:22

193:22 194:7

194:13

201:7

attaining

97:18

attainment

193 :23

attention

50:18

58:2 75:22

209:22

210:3

attorney

2:8

152:14 201:20

attributable

38:11

August 64:4

65:21

authorities

20:7

authority

9:8

17:23,24

19:2

19:3 22:19

24:7,10

25:20

33:11 42:23

55:13

73:22

86:24

87:9,11

87:14 94:20

95:16

144:19

authorizations

24:14

authorized

143:17

availability

15:16

available 17:6

17:10 33:13

37:19

58:7

67:13

188:24

195:3

Avenue

129:22

138: 17,20

140:10

175:4

178:14

average

51:10

98:1

averaging

17:12

avert

165:4

avoid 99:15

awarded 15:17

16:3 41:17

42:3

56:21,22

62:22 75:9

79:7,10

awards 41:15

79:23

aware

16:13,14

16:21

23:17,19

35:24

36:2

52:3,6

128:5

136:13 138:8

139:17 141:21

141 :24 142:7

142:11,15

144:9,12

145:6

145:13

149:14

154:14

160:19

160:23

166:12

166:14 167:10

168:22 177:9

205:17

208:18

away 52:15

130:19

A-T-C-H-A-F...

92:4

Page 215

A-S 21:15

A.D 1:12 211:20

a.m 1:13

B 30:1 131:6,8

143:16 180:1

baby 95: 10

bachelor 105:6

back 17:16

21:11

22:15

27:8 36:11,12

3 6: 13,

14,16,18

45:16 65:2,12

71:7 80:10

124:2 129:13

129:24 136:23

147:2 157:22

158:5 162:2,8

172:11

178:2,6

188:14 191:24

192:17 195:21

207:21 209:20

background

200:15,18

bacteria 115:18

115:21 127:15

128:9 136:14

180:9 199:3

203:16

bacterial 116:11

117:14 126:4

126:15

127:17

180:9

bacteriological

150:24

balance 38:5,13

57: 14, 15,18

58 :3, 13,22,22

58:23 59:1,4

68:18 70:8

95:21

balanced 62:16

Ballona 156:15

bank

143:14

177:7,10,

banks 109:21,22

130:18,18

1:4,9,16

163 :3,8

barge 110:2

132:8

146:20

147:5 149:4

150:19 165:12

165:19 166:4

166:21

167:7

175:23 176:11

barges 167:13

167:23

168:17

BARNES

2:18

bars 20:17 23:2

base 11:7 119:12

163:24

177:15

185:18

based 8:24

9:19

9:24

22:24

33:18 41:21

48:8

51:14

53: 10,13,17

55:11 81:1

98:19 110:20

118:3 125:12

177:21 178:1,8

187:15,17

190:7 199:1

baseline 87:20

137:6

basically 9:23

20:18 22:18

24:22

56:9,19

67:16,19 123:6

124:13 130:14

135:7 147:3

178:7

179:16

184:16

188:18

189:2,16 200:8

200:21

202:1,2

basin 92:4 153:4

153:11,17,18

basing 164:2,3

basis 16:4 48:19

48:21 53:18

65:23 74:18

76:16 88:21

90:8

107:15

111:17

117:14

122:24 126:3

153:23

179:5,6

181:18

186:21

201:13

bathing

146:2

Bay

11:1492:2

97:19 153:2

156:16

beach

186:1

beaches 146:2

198:1

bearing 52:24

became

8 9:23

6: 13

become 141:24

before 1:9,10

4:15 20:5

30:12

37:3

99:14,19 102:8

106:20

107:7

109:3

111:20

142:

12,20

148 :9, 12

149:24 176:19

211:20

begin 4:10,15

6:13 49:7

96:24

125:15

188:9,22,24

beginning 4:1

5:10 6:17

58:22 84:17,21

behalf 2:17,22

6:16

behave 164:14

being 74:19

78:19 96:1

106:13 121:9

127:24

128:15

128:21

132:24

136: 14,20

152:13

154:17

155:19 160:17

161:3,7 166:20

180:10

181:13

182:5

184:5

185:6 186:7

190:2 194:6,13

203:19 205:18

believe

6:13

18:24

21:9

:9,12,24

26:11 32:23

38:9 40:14,14

40:16

52:13

55:16 58:20

59:14 65:12

66:22 71:8,9

79:19 80:20

83:12

85:14

86:18 94:1,4,8

94:24 101:19

120:12 135:14

136:21 140:10

140:19

144:1,4

144:8,13

147:16 151:12

152:12 166:17

170:13 171:15

172:4, 17

173:18

175:21

187:21 208:9

believes 106:3

150: 14

below 117:8

175:4 181:4

191:12 200:18

benchmark

51:4

beneficial

154:24

benefit

117:18

120:22

184:22

benefits 43:1

61:23 200:23

best 89:2 1

125:12 155:23

190:7,10

better 51:19

191:23 205:20

between 10:2

37:12 48:3

53:15

56:22

78:9,18 161:15

184:10

189:18

beyond 14:17

24:18 33:20

87:4

162:15

167: 15,18

bias 4:21

big 33:11

166:15

billion

9:18

67:11 88:21

93:3 96:21

97:12 98:3,4

100:8

biologists

104:21

biosolids 104:7

104:14 105:20

biostatisticians

104:22

bio-monitoring

104: 16

bit5:6 8:18

62:16

65:5

193: 10

bitter

5:6

black20:13

22:11,19,22

23:4

Blatchley

114:3

Blatchley’s

170:3,7

blocked

42:4

blue

20:17 23:2

57:8,11

Board 2:2,4,4

3:4,12,14

4:17

18:19 92:17

93:15

99:3

119:17 122:1

124:6 143:2

154:23

155:15

177:16

190:23

203:2

Board’s 4:19

boat 110:2

129:22 138:17

138:20 140:10

140:17

141:21

143: 13,24

144:15

153:3

153:13

165:20

166:21 168:21

174:6,9

boating 109:12

109: 12,18

130:6 137:18

138:6 144:11

144:21

146:1

Page

216

165:21 176:1

43:21 45:21

40:24

41:9

131:23 132:13

cases 154:15

176:12

46:2059:3

43:11,17,21

174:2

176:12190:12

boats 132:9

books 32:5

45:17,21 46:20

Cal-Sag 120:2

196:21

138:16 143:23

both 34:22

50:18 58:2

131:2,8 163:2

cash 57:14

58:7

144:3,7 165:12

133:17 151:9

59:2,23

60:1,2

166:1,10,16

58:13,15,23

167:24 168:17

154:24

159:5

67:24 68:7,10

167:2 174:2

59:4

60:16

174:10

176:11

165:15

68:21 75:21

178:18

61:14,17,19,19

BOD 47:23

bottom 21:6

87:2

Cambridge

61:24 62:1,11

195:9196:19

22:1744:1

budgetary89:1

171:4

62:1763:1

bodiesl39:6

150:11

89:18

camell:21

66:7,7,15,19

140:1 155:24

boulders 145:22

budgeted 36:5

90:12 97:22

95:21

173:1

174:11

box4l:15

87:18

39:18

Canallll:1

catch 10:5

176:6,18,22,23 Branch 111:1,5

budgeting6o:3

119:24

129:11

category 110:18

body 136:7

119:24 120:4

budgets 30:21

131:2,21

cause 1:9 109:24

139:13 146:12

130:22,24

31:2,3,5 40:23

132:13 138:18

132:4210:10

146:21 147:5

131:1,21,24

build4:18

99:18

173:24

211:6

148:14149:18

132:1,10,12,17

builtlOO:2,9

canoel67:1

CAWS1O6:8,8

151:2 152:12

143:15

173:24

bulk39:23

canoeing 165:11

106:18,23

177:2185:11

174:4,21,22

40:11 180:12

canoesl68:21

107:4,6,11

192:24199:5

175:4,5178:14 bundledl33:19

169:4

108:3,9,18

bond24:14,16

break65:2,8

cap 9:8 36:20

109:9,15

110:7

28:5,11 32:19

102:4 133:15

70:4 95:16

110:17,18

33:1,6,17

162:1,3 209:17

C 144:17

96:19

111:19

112:1,3

35:12,14 37:7

breathe 202:17

calculate 8:23

capabilities

112:24

113:5

37:10,1938:1

breedingll4:11

47:22 123:15

42:23

113:11,15

38:2,4,14 39:7

bridge208:18

124:21

capital7:16 9:10

114:2

115:2,2

39:10,2440:2

brief2l:13

calculating

15:1 22:24

115:5,12116:5

40:541:1,2,3

27:1031:12

82:10

26:240:8,9

117:4,7,12,15

41:14,19 57:15

37:15

188:13

calculation

41:14,18

56:11

119:7,12,22

58:4,8,14,24

203:21

209:15

82:23,24

83:9

57:1,15 58:4,7

123:12 126:1,5

61:1662:3,7,8

bring68:13

83:19

58:14,2359:5

127:2130:3

63:1566:14,17

116:5

calculations

63:1468:1

131:19132:9

68:176:23

bringing68:3

83:8

75:1876:14,20

137:1,18

79:6 80:5

185:12

California

76:23 79:6,9

140:18

163:9

84:21,2285:20 broad205:12

156:15

80:481:11

164:19165:13

95:15,21

broadest 206:5

called 41:14

82:10 83:22

173:2 175:13

bonding9:8

206:17

148:14

84:6 85:22

177:17191:20

17:24 19:3

broken8l:12

calling 125:11

86:21 87:4,23

193:22 194:7,7

20:722:18

120:21

189:9

94:15 95:14

195:12197:20

24:7,9 33:11

brought 185:3

Calumet8l:13

96:6

116:4

198:4,18 202:5

34:495:16

Bubblylll:6

89:5116:20

119:8

208:16

bonds9:12

120:5

167:22

117:23

131:3

capsizes 177:3

CD 147:19

17:16 24:22

168:16

131:23

132:2

captured 164:19 CENTER2:13

36:11,16,18,22

budgetl5:1,19

132:14,14

careful66:12

Center’s80:22

40:859:6

31:14,2332:4

171:13,21

Carolina49:21

cents43:12

66:13 86:10

32:9,22 33:18

175:8,9 178:15

105:12

certain

12:1,6

87:2,5

33:1936:4

178:15,16,17

carried80:3

13:415:8,17

book28:2039:9

37:238:5 39:1

207:1,3

casel53:15

16:926:12

41:9 43:11,17

39:3,9,22

Calumet-Sag

154:9

192:23

84:9 129:14

111:3,3 120:2

Page 217

139:13,19

55:11 71:13

106:1,9 110:24

clarify 15:24

180:3

187:8

149:21 181:23

202:23

111:2,4,5

20:1 29:9

194:8

certainlyl72:2

charges45:7,9

119:23 120:1,3

30:11 31:1

collected44:8

183:12

45:10,13,19,22

120:4 121:17

33:16 34:9,15

50:22

60:12

certainty 164:13

46:7,14 47:7

130:23,23,24

34:18 40:15

collection5l:10

certify2ll:5

47:11,14,16

131:1,2,20,22

55:3 139:3

collectively

cetera 145:24

48:18,24

52:12

131:22,24

140:2

104:18

111:16

174:23

52:14

132:1,10,11,12 clarifying38:17

collects45:9

CFU

111:10

charging 54:24

132:12,18

clarity

54:20

46:4

113:7,12

chartl9:8,11

138:18143:4

Clarkl4O:21

colonylll:11

179:22 180:1

20:14 22:4,17

143:10,15,16

144:10

colored56:20

181:14

23:23 32:10,24

163:5

167:22

classical

196:20

colors 75:16

Chairman 2:3

35:11 37:23

168:15 169:1,2 classification

Columbia 49:21

change 8:7,14

39:3 42:5

169:5 173:23

107:4

151:4

Columbus

49:21

8:21 13:7

43:24 45:17

174:1,3,4,22

classifications

combination

18:22 19:1

46:7,20 50:20

174:22 175:4,5

153:24

79:18

20:15 137:3

50:21

56:18

chlorination

clean49:1,8

combined

154:6

202:20

57:18 58:13

188:19

50:23 54:23

come 11:8 12:22

changed46:15

75:7,1481:8

Chlorination!...

71:1073:6

44:19,2245:19

46:24

81:15,1695:18

118:1

74:19,2275:1

55:1965:2

changes 7:20,22

95:22

choice 117:21

146:10,23

136:11

162:2

23:17,23 46:18 charts 19:10

choose 54:2

147:6

158:24

comes

32:12,17

133:3 134:11

20:9

202:5

161:8,15

32:20

36:14

134:12,20

check93:8

98:3

chose 13:1

clear34:23 44:1

37:12,24 45:22

135:4

136:9

CIBF57:14

48:1263:6

46:2,2,950:6

changingl2:17

CHEERS

68:11

111:12116:12

58:1959:16

80:24 159:23

121:15,17

circumstances

179:23 207:11

98:2

channel 111:3,4

122:2,8

124:16

157:4

clerk’s 8:22

comfortable

120:2,3

131:3

124:23

125:2,5 citation55:20

climatell:11

208:2

131:8,23

127:21 128:8

56:4

74:24

202:19

coming

15:4

132:13,17

128:12 189:9

citations

126:12

close3:20

4:23

44:12

136:5

153:4,11

166:1

189:17,21

cite 145:18

19:5,620:6,24

185:10

166:16 167:2

190:21 191:14

170:2 182:15

23:4

67:10

commence

174:2,3,21

191:18,23

cited 170:12,14

137:9

23:15

175:9 178:13

203:12

170:14204:2

Club 2:17

commencing

178:18

chemicallO5:14

cities25:1,13

coastl46:13

1:12

channelsl55:1

189:21

53:7,16

161:10176:19

commentl02:10

155:3,7

chemistry

105:8 citing 64:9

code 1:4

3:9

Commentary

character

chemists

104:21

citizens 202:4

73:19

92:16

93:14

198:11

104:22

city49:20

codes73:18

comments4:7

characteristics

Chesapeake

168:24 173:6

coexist

165:12

175:12

136:7

155:24

11:14 92:2

claim

63:19,22

165:14

commercial

characterizati...

97:19

67:4,6,8,14,16

coffers 44:12

109:11

110:12

81:6

Chicagol:3

67:1768:2,18

Coli198:18

132:8153:13

charge46:21,23

2:10,14,20,23

68:23 70:21

coliform 111:10

154:8

166:21

48:6,749:2,7

3:7,2351:9

71:1

112:21,23

167:7,23

55:1356:7

52:2253:21

claims66:23

113:7,9,12,19

168:17176:10

74:23 75:2

54:292:6

67:18,19

115:21

116:17

Commission

charged49:4

104:3

105:4

clarified

159:21

179:17,22

146:23

147:7

Page 218

153:17,18,23

23:22

37:21

145:21

149:4

150:19 196:11

continuing

commissioned

76:20 101:20

153:5,12

155:2 consisting

85:22

154:5

178:21

126:24

112:14

119:13

155:3,9,12,16

constrained

continuously

Commissioner

121:13,23

156:9 157:24

73:17

200:22

101:9

122:2,8,11

176:13

178:9

constraint33:12

contrary 110:23

Commissioners

153:1 164:12

178:24

71:11

173:22

143:3

189:8

conducted

constraints

9:5

control 2:2

common86:9

completion88:6

106:13 121:9

74:2

96:12

97:13

158:17,24

109:3 112:16

127:6,24

construct 188:4

119:17

137:21

159:1,15

161:7

126:17

142:2

136:20

146:19

constructed

154:22

155:15

161:15

164:7

148:21

185:24

190:12

162:16

communities

compliance

186:7

construction

controls 100:8

50:7

116:6195:6

confer65:3

23:12,1441:21

conversel77:24

community

53:5

204:13

conference 92:6

82:16,21

83:6

convey 209:6

54:3

comply 49:7

conferring 66:2

84:7,17,18

conveyance

companies

component

confidence

85:2 97:3,8

155:8

52:14

32:1946:1

111:13

143:13

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52:22

191:17

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111:8

Consultants

153:16

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127:6

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169:16

46:22 127:10

177:7,9

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104:8

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composite 85:23

confirm 64:13

33:21

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49:19 84:11

comprehensive

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63:7

31:9 42:10,10

85:12

61:6

108:5

178:16,17

consumer 8:8,15

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153:19

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26:1

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158:20

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109:10

57:11,12

73:11

47:10 48:4

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49:11

51:4

concentrations

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110:5,11,15,19

147:10

85:18 87:19

112:23 197:21

connecting

112:19 114:10

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98:7 99:2

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125:11,14

correct

7:14,23

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126:23 127:12

18:12

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comparison

conclude 9:3

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128:3 130:4

22:5 26:7

31:8

25:23 50:2,11

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119:17 124:9

146:21 147:6

33:14,16 34:20

51:3,14 53:4

106:14

111:23

206:16

148:14 149:3

34:21

35:2

90:5

94:14

112:9

113:2

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150:16 151:13

38:12,15,22

95:13,15,24

114:24

164:17

153:6,10154:3

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concludes

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174:17 176:16

45:3

48:16

comparisons

105:24

151:3

100:4

177:19 186:2

49:13

52:15

49:15 50:10

conclusion

considered

189:12,20

53:11 56:13,23

competel66:16

11:21 118:17

11:18 50:5

191:19,21

57:9 58:11

competing

194:18,22

93:2

111:16

192:23 198:1,6

60:763:7,19

166:10176:9

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152:16207:15

20016

68:15,2069:5

178:9

7:23 18:23

considering

5:7

contain

94:2

69:18

70:10

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117:18

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73:13

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108:15 118:19

118:15 135:15

56:10

77:19

78:7

106:21 124:16

conditions

201:15208:3

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79:16 83:13

189:17211:7

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86:15 87:12

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consistent

164:18

96:1799:9,16

Page

219

99:23

101:4

121:23,24

127:24

140:12

140: 18,21

142:14

151:10

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163:12

166:1,2

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172:15

172:16

175:22

176:2

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110:15

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210:1

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111:14

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130:20

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127:17

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110:8

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105:7,8

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122:3,13

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119:17

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130:15

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176:12

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113:9

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148:20,24

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164:20

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106:7,23

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Page 220

126:16

53:15

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185:6,13 190:6 directorl03:23

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184:7,13,17,20

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DEXTER 2:16

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Page 221

82:14 83:5

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128:23 129:21

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129:13

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177:10

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130 :2 1

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195:4

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155:11 181:15

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134:11

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162:9

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118:12 171:22

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Page 222

115:6 197:9

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82:12 89:16,18

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epidemiological Estuary

153:21

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63:12

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39:2 41:24

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82:5,8,17,22

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13:22,23

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200:18

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82:15

93:11 94:4,9

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escalation 82:16

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96:3

98:10

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82:18

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111:9,16,21

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10:19 13:19

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139:23 147:13

Examiner7l:18

150:1,3,5,9

34:20

39:17

58:18118:23

147:17156:19 examplel2:19

exhibits3l:1

47:1361:23

established

156:22157:3

13:1018:22

existl3l:12

62:1567:1

25:1035:16,20

157:10161:17

78:17103:10

existingl7:22

76:1295:7

41:1 47:19

183:24204:24

114:11

117:19

18:486:21

123:21

125:19

49:672:22

205:4,10,19

128:22198:12

87:4,23118:8

125:23126:6

107:10 118:17

206:4,10,14,20

198:18,20

123:9

158:12

133:9 179:2

establishing

207:7,14,24

200:15

158:14

159:1

189:7 193:10

53:13207:4

208:7,17,22

examplesl34:7

160:6,20

193:12,13,15

establishment

209:8,12

145:12,12,17

exists 119:11

201:12

119:18

Europe

103:11

160:19,23

167:11

explained

estimate9:18

114:7,14

exceed9:723:6

exitl77:4

186:15,17

69:6

88:22

169:11 192:18

44:23

expand 133:14

exposed 184:24

90:19 91:4

evaluate 18:2

exceeding

96:19 expect 84:16

202:14

93:3

107:14 122:23

99:15

expected 56:20

exposure

121:18

estimated 41:21

123:13 188:22

exceptional

56:21

57:1

125:5,9,13,14

60:166:869:7

188:24191:11

116:21

70:1875:8

125:16178:10

69:20,22 79:7

evaluation

excess 48:9

76:2,9 84:20

181:3 191:17

79:9,23 81:11

124:18

63:13,20,24

190:13

192:3

88:21

98:4

evaluations

6:24

68:1,11 70:21

expeditious

express 4:20

117:23

126:18

exclude24:8,11

119:3

27:12

estimates 7:7,11

even 19:3,6 20:7 excluded 36:20

expend 97:20

expressed 82:13

Page

223

expressing

166:12 167:20

finally

118:9

flood 69:22

138:12

175:15

168:3,14,23

financed87:5

floodingl65:4

forminglll:11

extend 87:8,10

169:6 173:8,9

financial 6:22

flow 47:22

formulation

extension

9:6

far 23:11 165:2

6:23

17:22

116:24 134:8

142:1

87:19

88:4

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42:19,23

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forward20:23

extensive

176:24 faulty 106:6

56:11

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flows 98:1 113:1

24:18

83:5

extent9:1424:1

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62:2

137:6

106:20109:3

87:3 88:15

feasibility

financing 81:2

fluctuate 15:22

124:10

205:17

206:23

84:9

16:6,7

found 116:10

extraordinary

feasible 194:14

find 41:5

81:8

fluctuated 47:5

117:5 131:20

117:17

195:3

136:12 161:18

focus 20:10

132:10

146:19

extrapolated

featurel77:6

163:7177:12

108:4

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90:7,13

features 176:22

209:2,11

focused

194:23

148:18 149:15

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finding 72:11

follow 53:24

153:3 198:12

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146:24147:7

61:2162:14

200:17

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112:21,23

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facilities 18:4,11

113:7,9,12,18

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86:14

113:21

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Fourth 132:7

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firm

63:7

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11:1 34:7

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18:4

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FREDERIC

78:2114:13

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Federation 92:5

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110:2

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169:10 184:5

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factor

8:11,24

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feet 134:12,13

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firsthand

168:10172:4

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facts

102:22

figure 84:14,15

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foremost 128:13

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103:8

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figures 83:22

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Page

224

67:18 74:19

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given

76:8 94:13

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funding

14:17

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62:13 65:11

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187:7,7

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generating

122:15 129:12

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163:15,18

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170:8

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199:17,20

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gastrointestinal

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Page 225

144:4,8, 12, 16

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148

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11,17,20

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109:18 110:6

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110:14

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57:1,15 58:14

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process 15:2

projects

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segment

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92:4

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Page 241

124:1,4

107:13 122:21

swimming

talking 38:21

technologies

Subpartl59:4

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109:17110:6

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114:9,23

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technology

Subsection

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139:6

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Tankage 13:23

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Suite

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systems 184:7

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summarize

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surprise 64:2

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summarized

65:17

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summarizes

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summarizing

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Summit 138:17

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superintendent

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technically

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Page

242

129:21

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168:

14,18,19

168:21

169:2,3

toward

70:12

track 140:8

traditional

115:7 197:10

traffic

110:3

146:20

147:5

149:4

150:20

165: 12,20

166:5,21

167:7

175:23 176:11

transaction

142:3

transcribed

211:9

transcript

1:8

182:19

211:7

transfer

67:3

68:11

70:20

transferred

63:18,21

66:22

68:2

transportation

118:13

171:24

treat

11:4

183:

14,15

treated

51:4

53:5

54:13

108:20

114:20

116:21 127:14

192:11

207:1

treating

206:4

207:2

treatment

9:17

10:23 12:14,20

12:21

47:17

51:11

57:4,7

81:13

89:5,13

90:18

94:18

97:23,24

98:2

104:13 113:23

171: 12,20,22

205:15 206:2,7

207:5,16

208:

treatments

11:23

205:24

trespassers

138:2

tributaries

113:11

tributary

113:1

true

25:5 45:2

46:10

51:8

52:19,24

54:11

183:5 211:7

try

12:22 17:1,5

17:17

66:12

67:4

162:22

194:17

195:22

200:2

trying

10:5

24:21 34:9,15

34:20 41:5

58:18

70:20

84:14

140:2

186 :4,

191:20

197:3

205:12 206:12

tune

60:12

192:1

Tunnel

164:7

tunnels

164:11

turbulence

132: 15

turn 4:12

32:9

38:24 42:13

45:16

72:7

75:20

180:1

Twelve

171:19

two

3:16

8:7,10

8:19

9:1

18:3

37:12 53:15,16

65:4 73:15

82:8

105:18

112:13

121:19

154:10,

155:6,6

159:3

172:3

two-and-a-half

97:8

type

9:17

11:10

125:9

130:7

141:14

146:13

164:21

176:15

176:17,17

177:13

184:21

185:23

191:5

types

191:19

typical

13 1:13

137:1,6

176:24

typically

70:7

138:1

176:15

UAA

107:2

113:8

132:20

136:20

146:18

146:21

147:4

148:4,21

149:8

151:7

153:1,19

155

:6, 13

156:14

157:24

UAAs

136:14,15

136:18

156:23

157:13

Uh-huh

126:10

UIC

190:5

171:2,8

ultraviolet

81:14

unable

64:13

unacceptable

202:9

uncertainties

119:6

uncommon

114:14

169:11

unconsolidated

145:23

under

108:16

112:6

125:18

137:21

138:11

146:9

149:18

156:9 158:23

178:24 211:9

underlined

73:2

:5,10,12

understand

14:22,23 24:19

24:21

25:8

56:19

72:17

77:20

99:12

119:6

128:24

146:15

161:13

175:19

179:12

185:19

186:18

198:9

understanding

8:14

15:12

18:16

24:13

25:3

55:10

86:24

103:12

103:18

107:6

138:22

141:12

141: 19

understands

184:3

understood

160:7

undertake

107:13

109:1

122:21

128:19

undertaken

105:4

119:3

173:3

191:22

203:17

206:19

undertaking

112:15

underway

117:13

126:2

127:16,20

185:22

207:4

unexpected

109:24

132:4

unexpended

76:5

77:10

unique

107:10

unit48:4

United

170:20

units 28:4

111:11

University

105:9

105:12

121:16

unless 36:19

unlikely

110:12

110: 15

Unnatural

155:2

unquote

123:2

unrelated

136:4

unsafe

145:21

149:3

150:21

152:10

153:12

155: 1,16

157:24

161:11

176: 13

unsupported

120:8

until

78:6

84:17

112:15

127:15

133:1

164:11

UPA

153:17

upcoming

15:20

upgrade

97:2

Upper

175:11

175:15

207:9

upstream

Urbana-Cha...

105:9

urges

106:2

usage

13:24

118:12,14

171:23

172:1

use 22:4

37:20

51:16

58:24

81:3

82:22

83:17,20

84:14

86:8

89:22

105:5

106:1,7

106:22

107:4,9

107:17

112:3

114:1 115:1

116:18

120:24

123

:2,13

125:18

126:16

127:9

129:8

133:18

136:14

147:10

149:10

149:16,19

150:17

152:17

153

:22,24

154:3,18

155:21

156:2,4

156:5,8

158:14

Page 244

160:20 165:24

176:5 177:19

180:22

188:2

189:13 192:24

194:12 196:23

197:1 198:16

198:19 201:7

202:2 206:10

207:1

used 15:6 19:16

25:20 28:8,12

29:6,17

42:15

42:18 47:16

67:20 78:1

82:19 83:13

93:7,8

114:22

128:18

136:14

136:21

141:21

142:9 143:24

144:11 145:7

157:

13,17

158:11

160:5

160:13

186:1,8

189:10

192:12

192:21 193:5

198:5

useful 3 0:20

189:13

191:14

user 45:7,9,10

45:12,19,22

46:7,11,14,21

46:23 47:7,11

47:14,16 48:6

:7,

18,23

49:2,6

52:12

52:14 53:17

54:21 55:1,5

56:7 71:12

74:3,22 75:2

users 27:15

46:12 119:11

uses 102:12

108:3,7,18

109:6,7 118:24

119:18 120:21

123 :9,11,15,17

124:11,19

125:1,4,7

128:

14,21,24

133:5 138:13

141: 17,20

145:9 146:8,11

152:11 154:4

154:24 156:24

157:5,8

158:12

158:22,23

159:1,15,22,23

160:6 165:11

165:16,20

173:10

176:10

176: 17,18

178 :9, 11

191:15 194:6

194:24 202:7

USGS 135:7,20

136:12 155:15

using 82:16

83:5

85:2

98:3

146:7,8 158:16

159:14 202:9

208: 12

usually 72:19

utilities 47:12

49:12

51:5,24

:21,23

utility 6:23,24

utilization 104:7

104:14

UV95:17 96:7

96:24 117:19

187:22 188:4

188:16,20,23

U.S

114:18

169:15

value 21:2,7

22:4 43:13

44: 14,17,24

55:11 82:9

83:2,3,8,11,19

127:18

varies

26:14,24

variety 28:3

various 53:7

82:10 89:20

132:20 170:19

178:11 191:21

204: 13

vary 198:21,24

199:1

varying 73:17

vegetarian

206:13

velocities 133:4

133:4 135:15

137:1 155:5

velocity 110:1

132:5 133:2,3

134: 12,13,19

134:22 135:4,8

135:8 155:18

venue 186:2

verbal 64:1

vertical 109:22

1:5,17

163:10 177:1

very 11:19 19:5

19:6 20:6 23:4

24:20 41:2

79:8 90:13

101:22 102:1

109:21 130:19

137:10

141:8

162:19 170:23

173:16 177:1

195:11,11

203:6 209:15

vessel 150:20

vicinity 207:5

viewed 197:23

viewing 19:24

viruses 116:14

voice 17:5

voices 55:24

95:11

void 126:21

volume 129:8

volumes 155:4

voter 118:7

voters 9:14 18:1

votes 26:9

Wacker 2: 13,19

wading 109:14

109:18 110:6

130:6 135:10

137:18,20

177:8

wait4:12,13

106:12 108:22

121:9 122:2

139:8

waiting 108:14

wakes 176:13

177:3

walk 143:14

189:4

walls 163:14

wandered

177:13

want6:5

7:3

24:24

25:8

30:1 37:16

74:16

103:7

125:20 140:4

146:5,6 158:7

159:7,10

175:1

179:11 193:11

193:13 195:19

198:16

203:4

206:15 207:24

208:6 209:4,2 1

wanted 11:16

29:8 143:18

152:20 158:23

wants 25:15

warm 148:23

15 1:4

Washington 2:9

wasn’t 29:5,21

34:21 35:24

36:2 40:19

74:7 76:10

waste 47:17

118:13 172:1

197:4

wastewater 49:3

57:4,7

71:21

71:23 72:23

73:21 74:23

85:22 91:14

94:6 104:13

108:20 112:21

113:22 114:7

114:21 116:21

127:14

171:19

171:21 192:11

water 1:2 2:22

3:6,22

20:20

42:21 47:17

49:1,8 50:23

51:9 54:24

71:10,11,21

72:23

73:6,7,7

73:19,21 74:19

74:21,22

75:1

81:3 92:5

94:15 95:24

104:2,17

105:13,17,21

106:17 107:16

108:12 109:24

110:11 112:10

113:4,5 114:22

115

:3, 16,24

116:2,10

117:15 122:24

123:10,10,15

124:21 125:14

126:4 128:10

132:4 134:12

134:13

136:7

139:6,13 140:1

143:3 146:10

146: 12,23

147:7

148:23

149:17

150:16

151:2,4 152:12

153 :6,10,24

154:1,22 155:8

155: 14,24

156:1 158:15

158:24

161:8

161:16

167:13

170: 19,23

171:10 172:13

173:1,10,11

174:11 176:6

176: 14,18,22

176:23 177:2

177:13 180:15

181:21 183:15

183:16 184:17

186:9,21

187:8

187:11,15,17

Page

245

189:18,22

190:4,6,9, 14

190:17

191:19

191:20

192:3

192:13,24

199:5,14,16

203:14 205:5

205: 14

waterborne

114:16

169:13

waters 114:22

157:5

172:23

185:1

187:7,7

192:12 193:6

198:16

watershed 98:22

waterway 3:7

106:2 112:6

134:10

138:10

177:5,10

178:24

196:22

waterways

1:3

105:5 106:9

107:11 109:8

109:19 110:22

130:17,20

137:23

163:5

173:21 203:16

way 3:19 47:18

72:16 80:6

108:16

128:3

133:15

148:6

162:12

168:5

173:2

185:14

186:12 201:6

205:11 206:4,5

208:17

ways

205:13

weather

112:6

113:1,3

116:24

123:18 155:2

178:24

website

32:5

72:14

Webster

132:11

167: 14,15,18

175:4 178:14

Weftech 92:6

weigh 201:17

weighed 118:15

201:15

weighing

201:18

202:24

weight

111:8

179:20

Welcome 162:8

well 6:24

8:19

10:22,24 14:22

15 :7 24:11,20

35:3 37:8

59:22

61:19

73:21

89:21

98:17

108:9,16

113:11,19

117:13 122:4

124:13 126:2

129:5 133:11

135:1,6

136:22

138 :6, 19

145:17

151:7

152:4,13

158:6

159:3 160:22

161:24

170:9

174:10

176:8

179:6,16

180:5

180:24 181:17

182:20 184:4

185:22

196:10

196:

14,18

197:8 199:18

201:

19,24

205:10,22

206:8 208:5

went 12:16 22:6

90:10

100:24

were

5:10,10

9:24

11:4 12:9

12:9,16,19

13:11,12,15

22:3 31:1,2,3

33:17 35:3

36:6 40:2,5

43:12 49:11

52: 12,14,23

64:3 65:10,18

66:4

77:3,4

79:9,20 80:2

81:1

82:13,14

83:11

89:2,6

89:18,23 90:4

93:1,6

98:12

102:6

113:11

113:19

122:1

125:4

131:10

133:18

139:2

139:11,18

140:9

143:23

148:16

149:16

151:9,16

153:4

156:23 157:12

157:16

158:22

159:5

162:5

173:17

174:12

174:16

175:12

176:19 183:8

188:11 190:15

192:2 195:10

196:21

198:14

1:9,11

209:19

210:8

weren’t

12:10

138:20

156:24

183:19

west 1:11 2:9

143:

western

103:11

114:6 129:22

13 8:17,20

192:18

wet

112:6

113:1

113:3 116:24

123:18

155:1

178:24

wetland 207:16

208: 12,13

wetlands 205:15

206:6

207:1,5

207: 10

we’ll 5:4,11

31:13,2237:24

65:2 71:24

91:17 92:8,22

93:19 98:18

103:18

129:12

136:9

147:19

156:17 162:13

189:17 209:9

209:22,24

210:5

we’re 27:8 36:12

40:23 41:7

53:2

62:22

64:21 67:5

70:20,23,24

72:22

75:1

76:15

80:11

100:18

123:22

125:

10,2

133:13 146:8

162:9 173:2

178:7

185:7,14

186:4

187:6

202:6 208:20

210:6

we’ve 35:16,19

41:1 70:12

72:21 75:15

79:8 86:13

182:1

189:9

198:24

199:9

202:1 203:16

206:23

207:8

while 197:4

whole 5:9 79:20

146:21 147:5

148:14

185:11

wildest 100:19

Williams 2:7

6:14,15 7:3,6

7:12,15,21 8:2

8:17

9:2,16

10:10,22

11:6

12:8

13:6,19

14:2,6,20

15:21 16:2,8

16: 13,17,21

17:18 18:6,9

18:13,19

19:10

19: 14 21:1,6

21:12,19 22:1

22:14 23:7,16

23:21

24:4,9

24:15

25:3,12

25:19 26:3,8

27:8,9,11,18

27:21 28:16,20

29:7,18,21

30:3,15

49:9

49:16 50:3,13

52:5,8 72:15

74:13,16,24

85:8,11

87:13

90:23

120:18

121: 19,22

122:

1,7,12,16

122:19

123

:20

124:2,11,23

125:19

126:10

127:19,23

128:7,20 129:9

129:17,20,24

130:12

131:6

131:14

132:22

133:9,21

134:4

134:

17,2

13 5:1,16,20

136:2,10,16,23

137:12

138:4

138:14

139:1,7

139: 14,22

140:4,8

141:5

141

:9,18

142:4

142: 17,22

143:18

144:6

144:17

145:1,3

145:6,11,16

146:3,17

147:1

148

:2,6,8,

148:19

149:13

151:7,14,20,23

152:3,9,19,22

154:10,13,20

156:3,7,12,21

158:1,7,16

159:3,12,17,20

160:4,10,12,18

160:24 161:2,9

161:

13,18,2

170:7,11,16

173:19

174:8

174:14

175:1,7

175: 14,18

176:3

177:16

177:22

178:4

178:19

179:11

Page

246

179:19

180:18

180:21

181:7

181: 12,24

182:7,

12,

17,23

183

:7,11,13,18

183:21

186:3,6

186:11,16,22

187:13,20

188: 1,10,14

189:3

190:20

191:6,13 192:4

192:8,20 193:1

193:4,8,11,15

193: 18,19

194: 10,17

195:2,8,15,19

196: 1,7,23

197:8,17 198:8

199:4,8,22

200:6

201:8,22

203:1,4

204:1

204:15,21

wind 80:24

Windy

168:24

withdraw 53:22

86:18

withhold

134:5

witness

5:16 6:8

30:4 64:13

66:2,4 90:22

102:15 184:2

205:20

witnesses

3:23

3:24 4:24 5:3,4

16:18

103:4

118:19

132:24

133:16

Women’s

166:15

wondering

142:6

word 201:9,23

words 58:24

125:10

181:19

work 7:13

12:11

12:14 14:24

63:7,9

76:19

96:24

97:2

130:1 179:14

179:17

207:4

2 10:5

worked

8:18

206:21

working

187:4

187:10

Workshop

115:14

world

171:3

worth 74:7

79:14 117:24

wouldn’t

26:3,5

66:11

150:9

160:13

165:8

181:6,7

yeah7:24

18:15

35:21

44:15,22

47:4,15

53:12

54:4

57:11

75:17 126:11

175:11 177:20

183:2 187:19

year 15:17,17,20

16:6,6,10

21:18 23:13

26:

10,13,15,15

26:23,24,24

38:2 39:3

41:17 44:17

47:5,5

60:6

63:2

64:5

65:22 69:5,10

69:21,24 72:19

76:8,18 77:4

78:5,6,21

80:1

80:14,15

82:21

84:6,17

87:2

101:17 122:11

122:11

years 17:11

23:13 43:7,9

44:3

46:15

60:12 61:16

62:24 70:9,12

75:9 76:1

77:16,18 79:3

79:4 80:17

82:15 85:2,24

86:3,8,15

87:20 90:16

97:8 104:5,11

105:18 113:21

year-end

76:17

yellow

57:3 77:8

77:9,10,15

yesses 178:3

yesterday 5:8

10:13,17

89:9

90:22

100:24

182:14 183:8

183 :20 184:5

187:22

191:3

yesterday’s

3:20

yield 127:16

Zeis

90:16,21

Zenz7:8

90:23

90:24

91:4

94:7

zero 137:9

$10

107:23

203

:9,

204:

$10,602,800

84:15

$100

43 : 12

58:17

$130

59:18

60: 13,18

$15

69:23

$150 87:1

$16

98:3

$2.8

93 :3,7,9

96:21

97:12

98:4

$20

70:15

$250

80:12

$4.2

68:22

$40

38:10

$400

66:6

$42

36:5

$447

58:8

$460

79:14

$470

62:2 1

$50

17:12

$54

39:19

$55

68:19 69:12

69:16 71:4

$600

79:23

69:20

$8.20

97:23

$919.6

117:24

0.5 10:8

72:18

07 80:3

084-004560

211:12

1 13:13 42:15

13 7: 14

1,000

183:20,22

184:11

1/1/08

63:4 66:8

69:7,11

1:00 161:22

1013:17 88:5

135:10

1OCSR2O-703

146:24 147:8

10/28/08 6:1

72:5 82:4

91:23 92:14

93:24

148:1

150:7

100

111:10,11

113:12 116:9

179:22 180:2

181:14 199:13

199:15,19,20

200:10

201:1

108.4 154:5

11 171:17 192:8

12 88:20 125:20

126:8

193:15

12th

143:11

12/3179:24

13 193

:20

13th 143:1,7

130 64:4,15

65:21

1300

2: 14

141:10

197:8

15 3:21 50:18

199:9

15th 149:9

159 5:20,21,23

16 100:7

199:11

160 31: 14, 15

160.2 37:10

161

31:23,24

38:8 39:2

43:18,19

161.2

33:1

37:4

162 72:1,1,3

163 8 1:21,22

82:2,5

164

91:18,19,21

94:6

165 92:9,10,12

166

92:23

93:20

93:22

98:10

167 32:6 147:20

147:21,23

168

150:1,3,5,9

17th 5:2,4

209:22 2

10:6

201: 12

18.7

46:2

18.9 60:3

1800 2:10

1829

171:5

1962 143:11

1985 153:2

1989 153:16

1991

154:2

1996

46:21,24

1999

79:2

213:1243:4

121:3,5

122:19

130:2

199:11

201: 14

2,000

183:15

2,700 183 :22

2.8 9:18 88:21

20 104:5

20th

92:19 93:17

200 183:16

2000 143:1,8

2001 149:9

2002 43:7,12

Page 247

2003

43:13

72:14,23

91:15

2004 43:14

101:18

2005 43:14

51:14

101:18

147: 12

2006

43:8,14

2007 30:21

31:14

32:9,22

36:4

37:3

39:13 40:22

46:22 67:24

68:6,9

92:20

93:17

2008

1:12

30:21

31:23

33:18

37:2 39:1,3,7,9

39:18,21 40:13

40:16,23,24

41:2,9,16,18

43:11,17,2

45:17,21 46:20

50:18

57:19,20

58:2,9,21

59:1

59:3,23 60:1,2

63:17 68:11,21

69:10,19 75:21

79:2,3,7,10,16

79:23

80:11

82:14 83:4

84:3 92:5

101:11

211:20

2009 70:19,22

2010 14:12

24:18

85:3,5

112:15

122:11

122:13

2011 14:12 97:7

100:3

2012

27:4

201497:9

99:14

99:19

2015

23:3

83:16

84:3

2016 23:5 27:4

86:22

87:3,4

87:20

88:2

97:9 99:21

100:2

2017

14:9

23:5,8

23:18 87:21

2019 5 6:22

2035

85:4

2127:24

28:16

28:17

23113:21

24 3:17 21:16,21

25 85:2,24

86:3

86:8,15

25-year 84:23

86:11

28th

1:12

28.4 43:14

29 120:23

314:8

19:12,19

42:1,7,8

56:17

73:2,4 75:7,14

80:10

82:20

85:16 87:17

130:2 173:19

193:21 197:9

203:5

3C132:22

3-2 20:11

3.3

87:17,18

3.4 45:21

3.721:18

30 67:11

161:23

300

166:16

301 1:4

3:9

301.323 110:9

302 1:4 3:9

303

1:4 3:10

304

1:5 3:10

308

1:11

31st

76:16

31.5

43:14

312

2:11,15,20

32 63 :3

33 2: 13

3470:10

34.7 43:14

35 1:4 3:9

35741:9,10,11

79:

19,22

357-1313

2:20

36143:12

36.1 43:13

37.1

43:12

375 57:23

3932:9

37:2,4

39:2,9 45:17

45:20

49:3 21:10

137:13 173:19

178:20

179:20

4.221:18

69:9

69:13,17

40 79:4

161:23

400 57:21 111:9

113 :7,12

179:22 180:1

181:

14,2

183:20,23

184:11

413 46:20

42 126:13

43 43 :10,16

75:21

79:1

44 126:19

440

66:11

4400 2:

447

61: 15

127:8

450-some 79:2 1

46 127:8

58:7,209:3

10:1

11:22 13:2

14:7 20:15

22:4,10

88:14

94:24

95:5

99:8,11

178:21

193:21

5(A) 168:6,8

5-3 99:13

50 16:22 105:19

610:2 12:4

13:2

169:10

192:9

197:9

60 67:24

68:6,9

60601 2:14

60602 2:10

60606-2833 2:20

61 68 :8

67 30:22 31:6

2:9

691.939:11

88:14 125:24

193:16 199:11

7.6

151:5

70104:19

74 39:21

795-3707 2:15

9:22 10:3 12:5

13:2,17

201:13

81.8

154:5

814-4947 2:11

83 141:6

142:19

832-F-03-027

71:23

9 75:13 150:11

150:11

9:06 1:13

9058:2

59:2,5

60:17

62:18,20

91 59:23 60:2